Is It Likely That President Trump Has Obstructed Justice

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   My Esotericposted 7 years ago

   Here are the FACTS as we know them:
   
   Jan 27, 2017: Trump has dinner with Comey and, according to Comey, Trump asked Comey for a loyalty oath' but Comey only promised Trump honesty.  Trump says he didn't but thought it would have been a good idea.
   
   Jan 30, 2017: Trump fires Deputy Attorney General shortly after 1) she told WH counsel about Gen Flynn's lies and 2) saying she can't enforce what she perceives to be an unconstitutional ban on Muslims.
   
   Feb 13, 2017: WH reports it has known for weeks that Flynn was compromised.
   
   Feb 14, 2017: Trump has an oval office meeting with Comey, AG Sessions, and VP Pence.  Trump asks the latter two to leave the office, which they did.  When alone with Comey, according to Comey, Trump asked him to “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.” adding that Flynn had done nothing wrong."
   
   Mar 4, 2017:  Trump tweets President Obama tapped his phones, tweeting "How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"
   
   Mar 20, 2017: Comey tells Congress that there is no information to support Trump's phone tapping accusation.  But he did say the FBI is "“the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts.”
   
   Mar 20, 2017:  The Washington Post reported that Trump separately asked two of the nation’s top intelligence officials — Daniel Coats, director of national intelligence, and Adm. Michael S. Rogers, director of the National Security Agency — to help him push back against the FBI investigation and deny their was any collusion between his campaign and the Russians. They refused.  When asked on May 23 at a House hearing, Coats "declined to comment"
   
   May 8, 2017:  Trump tells AG Sessions and Dep AG Rosenstein that he wants to fire Comey.  Rosenstein crafts a memo to Sessions outlining issues he had with Comey's handling of the Clinton server investigation. 
   
   May 9, 2017: Sessions (who is barred from anything concerning the Russian investigation) receives the Rosenstein, attaches a cover letter and forwards it to Trump who then, citing the Rosenstein memo (he called it a recommendation, but it wasn't) fired Comey.  In his firing note to Comey, Trump states that "While I greatly appreciate you [Comey] informing me, on three separate occasions, that I [Trump] am not under investigation ..."
   
   May 10, 2017: Trump meets with the Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador and, among other things, tells them that "I just fired the head of the F.B.I.,” Trump says, according to a White House summary of the conversation. “He was crazy, a real nut job. I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”  Trump added: “I’m not under investigation.”  (also in this meeting, which Trump confirmed later, he revealed higher than Top Secret information about laptop bombs and ISIS)
   
   May 16, 2017:  The FBI reveals Comey kept extensive, detailed memorandums for the record on telephone and personal contacts with Trump
   
   May 17, 2017: Rosenstein appoints a special counsel, former FBI director Robert S. Mueller III, to oversee the Russia probe and investigate any related matters, such as obstruction of justice and perjury.
   
   So, is the preponderance of the evidence pointing toward Obstruction of Justice.

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      PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Other than Hillary cheated Bernie and some Democrats are into "spirit cooking:"  we already knew Hillary was a serial liar. Now whether Seth Rich, may he RIP, leaked that info to Wikileaks or we subscribe to the Russia Hacked Democracy narrative  " what difference does it make" ?

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         Will Apseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         This has nothing to do with Trump's actions in relation to the FBI, right or wrong.
         
         Frankly, Trump may have deliberately tried to obstruct justice, or in his ignorance of the way the world works, merely made a series of idiotic errors. It will need someone to look at the facts and then try to establish motives.
         
         Motives matter in this kind of thing.
         
         Either way, it looks bad.
         
         I note Pence is trying to distance himself from the train wreck of Trump's presidency and Trump is finding it hard to get qualified people to work for him. Not surprising given that Trump will ruin a lot of careers.

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         My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Why must you, V,  rely on already De-Bunked Fake News to support your side?

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            PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Seth Rich is the simplest most logical conclusion based on available information.
            
            The WSJ is reporting that the leaked information included material that is uniquely the same as Seth's work related material.
            
            Wikileaks dumps the material shortly after Seths murder labeled as a non robbery/robbery theory. Oddly, wandering around at 4 am in the morning.
            
            Wikileaks soon after offers a $20,000 reward for information on Seths murder.
            
            1, 2, 3.
            
            I could go on. MSM, Propaganda, gaslighting etc etc etc.  I could write a book.
            
            Seth Rich got debunked alright if debunked is a euphemism for assassination.
            
            Care to sign a petition to investigate Seth's murder?
            
            https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti … ail-leaker

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               PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               But once again it is a moot point. Whether it was Seth exposing the truth and exposing evil or not. Hillary defrauded Bernie. But we already knew that Hillary was bereft of morals and a serial liar. Bernie was the legitimate candidate. Hillary cheated.

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                  My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Explain this - http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … uth-o-met/

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                     PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     The preponderance of the evidence is that it is beyond a reasonable doubt that a) The OP is an edited WaPo article b). It is easier to type : debunked than is to think and c) The 2017 Presidential Election was in fact proven to have been interfered with and it was Hillary cheating Bernie.

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                        My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Show me your preponderance of the evidence and the so-called "proof" you have.  I seriously doubt you have either.

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      My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Soon I can add a new date to the list ... the day that Dir Comey tells the Senate Intelligence Committee in open session that Donald Trump attempted to obstruct justice by pressuring him to call off the investigation.

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         ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Next Thursday , It will be all over the news .  " Comey Blames  Clinton E Mails AND His Firing on Trump-Putin Secret Love Affair "
         But will not , at this time , recommend  indictment ............Well , because I got fired !"

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            My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            LOL, although the love affair is not so secret anymore.

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               ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Nope , the love affair is no secret to media ........But it doesn't exist either !

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                  My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Since there are no pictures (yet) of Putin and Trump holding hands or kissing,  you may be right.  But, just by observation it is clear there is a mentor (Putin) and Mentee (Trump) relationship on how to run government given the styles are so similar.  (Of course Putin has the good sense not to tweet.)

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                     ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Any connection between them is ridiculous ,   Look up Putin's work history  , a powerful and silent  KGB history mostly ,  how does that begin to compare to  Trump's , business history ?    Mentor ?, Ha !
                     
                     More Clinton connections to the Russians , ON RECORD as a matter of fact .

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   ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

   So now we hear from one more  "anonymous source " all the facts ? Why  , because you were there in the  white house ?    That is perhaps the greatest thing about today's futuristic   media ,  the incredible rise of the "anonymous  sources" news media machine ,  My God , the media has evolved to such an incredible source of insider info  that one would have to believe that the media is just as powerful as God himself , this  media is everywhere !  It's in the white house hidden chambers , it's there in the closed door senate intelligence sessions ,  its even in the urinal of the  Trump tower or the toilet tank of  the  press core room !
   
   You must be so proud to be a part of this bias media hype .
   
   Know what's likely ? Its likely that the media source you got this from  is in complete denial of reality .

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      My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Denial of reality?  No, I think you have it backwards.  No matter how hard you try, you can't turn your Fake News sources into reality. 
      
      Unlike Fox, these reports use multiple, and yes anonymous (like they have been since Walter Cronkite), sources and are pretty much accurate (again, unlike Fox)

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         ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Wow , ..........you believe this media garbage ?
         
         I've got some beach front in arizona  to sell you .

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            My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            What I believe is the truth which the mainstream news (but not Fox Opinion which has been shown to wrong much more often that say NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR, POTUS, and on and on.) almost always reports.
            
            Now I am talking about facts that can be verified (which if they sound strange I actually do) or have multiple sources or I can see/hear myself and not opinion which is primarily what FOX and most other conservative media outlets give you.

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               ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Except , there is little conservative voice  and less  even as  liberals play they dirty media war against the one meaning of truth , integrity  and media accuracy , fortunately or unfortunately , it sounds like you've bought into that left.
               
               The left should remember THIS ,  When the young and youth experience extreme political brainwashing from such young ages ,    YOU alone are responsible for the outcome that the fascist  left instills in your  children's minds .  Your youth then become sponges for fanaticism .    One mind , one group think , of one  short sighted, limited intelligence . I would far rather my child knew all sides of the issues ,  then decide for themselves. And THAT is the difference between liberal and conservative.
               
               I believe that the left has chosen the "easier' ideology to follow , but not the more open one.!

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                  My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  "Little conservative voice"??? You have got to be kidding me ... that is almost all there is! 
                  
                  BTW, clearly you are unaware but "fascism" is a far-Right ideology; communism is far-Left.
                  
                  And no, the fundamental difference between conservationism and liberalism is that conservatism believes State over Individual while liberalism believes in Individual over State.
                  
                  Try reading Russell Kirk's 10 Principles of Conservatism if you don't believe me.  Point out which principle says the individual is more important than the state.

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                     PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     "
                     And no, the fundamental difference between conservationism and liberalism is that conservatism believes State over Individual while liberalism believes in Individual over State."
                     
                     
                     And they will print money into infinity to prove it.

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                        ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Actually you couldn't be more wrong , BUT , you already know that don't you ..

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                     ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Please show me the equal conservative voice in MAINSTREAM media news today ?   
                     
                     Msnbc     
                     Cnn
                     CBS
                     ABC
                     Google
                     Yahoo
                     AOL
                     
                     We're not talking "fringe" conservative media either , I'll be waiting  .
                     I don't think liberals would know balance  if it bit them in the A.........

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                        My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Far-Left liberals may not, but they are what, maybe 10 - 15% the last I checked?  The far-Right, based on the polling supporting Trump, is probably 20 - 30%.  Neither of those groups understand "balance".  The remaining 55% - 70% of us who somewhere near the middle, however, understand (and truth) perfectly.
                        
                        BTW, you are right, there is only Fox Opinion in the group of most watched/listened to media outlets (AOL, Yahoo, and Google don't rate very high).  And Fox, as you well know and until recently, ranked #1 in all time slots.
                        
                        I have suffered through The Five and Hannity a few times and quickly determined they are unique.  CNN, ABC, NBC, and CBS have no comparable segments of 99% hard-Right bias. These souses actually Report the news without much spin that I can tell.  What passes as news on Fox is mainly opinion pieces.

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               PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               NBC NPR CNN? WaPo? Youd probably get more unbiased news from SNL.
               
               The difference between conspiracy sites and msm propaganda is that sometimes although probably very rarely, the conspiracy sites get it right. Whereas msm propaganda is propaganda with very little news pinned to it and because of that it is always wrong.
               
               Those are the facts according to  a NYT source quoting an anonymous source who is a high level insider of  Kim Lacrapias twitter following.

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   jo millerposted 7 years ago

   I look at the dates on your post and I'm sickened.  This has been going on ever since the inauguration and every day brings new revelations.  I just want this to be over.  I can't understand how the Trump supporters keep hanging on, but then I remember that 31% of the electorate supported Nixon when he resigned. 
   
   I'm going to leave it to Robert Mueller to determine whether he obstructed justice or not.  I would convict him right away if it were up to me.

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      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Wouldn't that be nice. To leave it to those in the position to gather all of the facts prior to calling for conviction? Instead we have those bent on whipping up a National Enquirer style lynch mob; supporting their effort with half truths and only miniscule amount of independently verifiable information.
      
      If the guy is guilty of wrong doing let's be American and wait until the verdict is in before turning on him like rabid dogs.

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      My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Jo, read ahorseback's comments and you will see how they can live in an alternative reality.

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      ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      ".......every day brings new revelations .........." B.S. ,     That says it all for most , lies , tales , phony media anger ,  phony leftist sniveling outrage , fake news ......... Between liberals  and their now totally unbelievable media :  I hear   Disney is now looking at cartoons as our next major mainstream news source  for any point of reality  .
      
      Maybe we can find a fact there .

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         My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Just because the truth doesn't fit with your narrative doesn't make it less true.  You would rather believe Fake News like the debunked Seth conspirously rather than a story witch doesn't fit with your mind set, which is He Was Just Murdered and the police need to find out why. 
         
         Why have the sources Gingrich and Fake News expert Hannity cite denounced both as making up something that is not there?

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            ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            The "new media " and  the "new left"  are the only ones with enough of a  story book mentality to believe this crap that's  passed off as mainstream  news  today . Oh well , ........your loss . But I do often  wonder why most of the "normal' Americans that I do  know and talk to ALL believe that  this leftist  hogwash IS  still called "news " .
            
            Maybe its just the new left's  level of 'face book' intelligence .

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               My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               It is because you live in a echo-chamber (as do most on the far-Left).  Note - I am talking about the real far-Left and not those you consider far-Left, which I suspect is everyone slightly to the left of your position.)

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