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Trump just announced pulling out of Paris Climate Accord

  1. jackclee lm profile image82
    jackclee lmposted 5 months ago

    As an AGW anthropogenic global warming skeptic, I support this move by President Trump.
    The environmental extremists will be apoplectic over this decision.
    What is your opinion?
    Perhaps it is time we have a national discussion on the merits of climate change mitigation.

    1. jackclee lm profile image82
      jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this
    2. RJ Schwartz profile image95
      RJ Schwartzposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      I totally agree it's the correct move for the long-term for America.  Our fate as a nation should not be subjected to a Euro-Socialist model which limits how we can grow our energy sector.

      1. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        +1 ...  We've had enough regulatory warfare from within the US.  We don't need to invite a fight with foreign nations trying to enforce their Globalist socialist agenda.

        1. jackclee lm profile image82
          jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          The problem with the Paris accord is that it was a voluntary agreement with no enforcement or penalty.
          It unfairly put burden on the US and little on the 3rd world.
          Even some climate scientists didn't think the accord was any good and will do very little to affect reducing global warming.
          The next few years will really be a tipping point.
          Either climate change projections are going to be confirmed or rejected based on real data and not on climate models.

          1. colorfulone profile image86
            colorfuloneposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            Gov. Jerry Brown can continue monitoring and regulating cow flatulence in CA.  lol

    3. promisem profile image91
      promisemposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      The majority of Americans, 200 other countries, NASA, 37 international science organizations and many other credible sources believe this is yet another bad decision by Trump.

      The only extremists worth mentioning are the climate change deniers.

      1. jackclee lm profile image82
        jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        We are not deniers but skeptics.
        There are plenty to be skeptical about including the dire warnings of global warming and coastal floods.
        Tell that to Al Gore who has a mansion by the ocean and a carbon foot print 20 times the average person.
        Just because we don't buy into the AGW theory does not mean we don't care about protecting our environment.
        They key is the timeframe. If global warming will raise the oceans in hundreds of years, it is not as dire as it may seems. We humans have always adapted to changing environments.

        1. promisem profile image91
          promisemposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          A skeptic has questions or concerns. A denier applauds exiting an agreement that was signed by 200 countries based on research and evidence endorsed by dozens of scientific organizations including NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

          1. jackclee lm profile image82
            jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            Why would we agree to a flawed accord? That will cost us billions and have little results to show?

            1. colorfulone profile image86
              colorfuloneposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              President Trump made a statement on the Paris Accord.  It was much worse than I knew for the USA and Americans, it was a giant screw job like TPP and Obamacare.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wE7MO1uSw

              1. Will Apse profile image93
                Will Apseposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                A lot of the statement was misleading, based on false assumptions or simply false.

                Like 'China and India can build as many coal fired power stations as they like and we can't'.  There was nothing to prevent the US building coal if it wanted to.  All targets, for all countries were voluntary. The only obligation was to set a target to reduce emissions and then report on the progress made.

                Also, most of the criticism of the Paris accord that he quotes comes from one report which assumes, in every case, the worse-case outcomes for the economy. US industry would have needed to perform very badly to come close.

                Anyway, Trump has finally made his mark in the most malicious way that he is able to do.

                Future generation will hate him, and all the other dupes of the fossil fuel industry, as they struggle to cope with the fallout.

                1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, we are now aligned with Syria and not with 195 other countries. Trump is proving to be the malevalent force I feared he would be. He couldn't have done it without his adoring fans, though. Too bad we all have to suffer because of  the short-sighted and horrendous judgment of the minority.

                  Now that we've pulled out,  we will have no influence on world policies that will affect all of us. Stupid,  stupid,  stupid.

                  1. Will Apse profile image93
                    Will Apseposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    The EU and China will now bear the brunt of the costs of fighting climate change and will have a powerful motive for freezing the US out of the international arena.

            2. promisem profile image91
              promisemposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              How is the accord flawed?

              1. jackclee lm profile image82
                jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                It is flawed because there are no consequences for violating the agreement. It is voluntary conpliance. Also, it cost the US billions while other countries pay very little. If I was the other 200 nations, I would sign it too. Please read it. Even climate scientists don't think the Paris accord was any good and they estimate even if everything was done as prescribed, it would affect the global temperature by a small fraction. Where is the cost/benefit analysis? It seems like a dud.
                https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/09/30/ … er-anyway/

                1. Will Apse profile image93
                  Will Apseposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  Everyone agreed targets in Paris and everyone was making progress.

                  Frankly, the rest of the world needs to think about a pollution tax on US goods if the country cannot pull its weight.

                  1. ahorseback profile image76
                    ahorsebackposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    How naive !   The reason , AND the only reason  America joined that agreement ,as usual  ; Was to finance something the rest of the world wouldn't !  To promote cleaning our environment that we hold to higher standards than they do ,   Financing  a multi-national environmental agreement BECAUSE the rest of the world pollutes more , isn't an  incentive  for environmentally conscious growth of any  struggling nation   BUT  a reason for them to waste , pollute and cost us more !



                    America closed coal mines - Oil Fields ,  Natural gas lines ,India , Russia , China , Africa opened more, Makes no sense to me !....... Not !     
                    You ? 
                    Apparently it made sense to Obama .

                2. promisem profile image91
                  promisemposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  You can add top CEOs in America who also think his decision was wrong.

                  http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/01/news/ce … index.html

                  1. jackclee lm profile image82
                    jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    You mean Elon Musk who's solar company stands to make a fortune on our contribution to the Paris Accord. Why wouldn't he?

      2. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        I don't think even the flat earth people are that extreme.  IDK

    4. Live to Learn profile image79
      Live to Learnposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      I'm somewhat unable to get overly emotional on the subject. Is the climate changing? Certainly. Have we passed the tipping point? If there is one and human activity is primarily responsible, yes. I'd love to see America take the lead on finding ways to mitigate the damage human activity has done but I think one thing those fearful can't take into account is that climate changes naturally and our percentage of responsibility for the change is still a subject of debate. Everything we do to mitigate damage we have done may have as negligible an effect on the outcome as it had on the onset.

  2. Will Apse profile image93
    Will Apseposted 5 months ago

    I reckon Trump was upset by the six other leaders of the G7 trying to talk some sense into him. Or maybe it was the Pope. Or the UN. Or his own senior scientists.

    Old guys hate being told they are idiots.

    Or maybe it is just the desperate desire to impact the world in some way, after so many failures.

    1. ahorseback profile image76
      ahorsebackposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Or perhaps like the you[ng] calling the old "idiots ",  he just simply knows far more than you.

      Yea , that's probably it.

  3. Rock_nj profile image90
    Rock_njposted 5 months ago

    If I owned a property within a few feet of sea level, I would sell it now, before it becomes worthless once people realize the ocean is going to take back what it once had over the next couple of centuries.  I live at 750 feet above sea level, so i will be fine in that regard.

    1. colorfulone profile image86
      colorfuloneposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      I'm at an approximate elevation of 1,100+ feet.  Comforting.

  4. ahorseback profile image76
    ahorsebackposted 5 months ago

    One more Brilliant Trump move !  It will save hundreds of thousands of US . jobs , Billions of dollars in foreign aid to the undeserving ,  One more U.S. protectionist move that the real people  love , and tell the rest of the countries in the world ,

    "You do not dictate  American politics , economics and  foreign policies "!

    And ,  didn't Obama sign that with an executive order action ?

  5. AshutoshJoshi06 profile image91
    AshutoshJoshi06posted 5 months ago

    All nations, party to the accord have condemned the move at the same time they are arriving at a concensus that one nation backing out should't make a difference or derail the process, which in itself is a major developement.

    Perhaps, an opportunity for the world to slowly move out of the hegemonistic US shadow. China EU may take the lead here.

    1. promisem profile image91
      promisemposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Quite a few U.S. mayors and governors are vowing to stick with the Paris accords and defy Trump. The number is growing.

      http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/01/us/trump- … index.html

      1. jackclee lm profile image82
        jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        That is all feel good talk. Do they even know what is in the accord? Reduce carbon emission level by 40% below 1990 level by 2020? Can these cities do that? How about donating billions to the fund? These cities are running deficits today? How do they expect to come up with the money?

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          You lack a basic understanding of how emissions reductions are accomplished if you think cities will foot the bill for that 40% reduction goal.

          1. jackclee lm profile image82
            jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            Why don't you educated me on how reduction suppose to work?
            There are only a few ways...
            Convert coal power plants to renewable power.
            Convert gas powered cars to hybrid and electric cars.
            Convert oil and gas home furnaces to solar or wind...
            Convert all electric appliances and bulbs to more efficient models...
            According to "the Science guy", reduce human population and adopt a vegetarian diet.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              Please explain why cities would foot the bill for any of that?

              You said:  "These cities are running deficits today? How do they expect to come up with the money?"

              1. jackclee lm profile image82
                jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                I was responding to the US mayors who wants to abide by the Paris accord. If you read the agreement, the US is expected to kick in $100 billion over the next 10 years...and voluntary reduce co2 emissions below 40% level of 1990. How will the cities comply?

                1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  I asked you first. Why do you think cities will be footing the bill for any of those items you listed?  Please explain why a city government would pay to convert gas powered cars to hybrid or electric, to use one example you gave. I'm just trying to get to the level of knowledge You have since you are so worried about cities not having funds to pay for carbon emissions reductions, you used that as a reason why we should not join the other 195 countries who signed the agreement. Are we on the such precarious financial footing that only us and Syria cannot participate?

                  1. jackclee lm profile image82
                    jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    You are missing my point. Trump decided to pull out of the agreement because it is a bad deal for the US. The mayors came out and claim they will abide by it anyway in defiance of Trump. It is just hot air and feel good talk. They can't do anything except to pay the bilions that the agreement calls for...
                    That was my comment. They have no intention of footing the bill and no revenues anyway.

                    I support a renegotiation of a new deal where all countries are forced to comply with penalties if they don't. That is the only fair way to share the load across the board.

    2. jackclee lm profile image82
      jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Without the US funding this effort, who else will step up? It is expecting 100 billion infusion of funds to help the 3rd world adopt green energy.
      If this works, perhaps we can pay down our debt by backing out NATO and the UN...

  6. Rock_nj profile image90
    Rock_njposted 5 months ago

    Why are you so hung up on what a politician like Al Gore predicted 11 years ago?  He is not a scientist.  He is a politician.  We can all look at the data http://www.columbia.edu/~mhs119/ and make up our own minds where this is all heading.  I am going to re-watch An Inconvenient Truth soon to see how it is working out.  As I recall, Al Gore was talking about events many decades and even centuries into the future.  Anyone who has been making predictions like the ice caps will melt over the next decade are just foolish and should be ignored.  On that note, we may have the biggest ice berg in modern times breaking off an Antarctic ice sheet soon.  The size of Delaware.

    1. jackclee lm profile image82
      jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Al Gore is not the only one. The IPCC which was behind the Paris Accord are also predicting extreme dire consequences... the recent pause caused them and NOAA to double down and predict even worst disasters... If no one listen to them, I would have no problem. Yet, countries are buying these predictions and instituting policies that hurt the average people in terms of higher energy costs and lost jobs...

    2. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Exactly. Hillary Clinton talks to the Ghost of Eleanor Roosevelt, so I agree with you that crazy politicians are of no help. Personally I look forward to a warmer climate. Alaska will be like a tropical paradise.

  7. PhoenixV profile image80
    PhoenixVposted 5 months ago

    I use way more energy heating my home in cooler temperatures than any other time. Of course I also supplement that by chopping and chain-sawing any tree I can find. Warmer climates might use less energy, whereas Cold Climate Advocates could cause California to be covered by the Pacific Ocean. Now, granted I am not a Scientist in real life, but that cannot be good for Hollywood liberals.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      Thank you for that highly relevant contribution. It's all clear now.

      1. PhoenixV profile image80
        PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        ok
        what kinda mppt you got?

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          Don't have one. (Yes, I had to look it up.)

          1. PhoenixV profile image80
            PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            Is like taxes. Always easier to swallow the idea, if its someone else compelled to do it. If the world spent trillions on new reactors..

            Willing to sit and stare at a dark pc screen. By candlelight? 7 8 9 10 billion people. Theyre hungry, cold and bored and they demand more energy than you can possibly imagine.

            1. jackclee lm profile image82
              jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              Michael Bloomberg just announced he would pay $15 million to Paris Accord. That's a great start. I want to see all these millionaires and billionaires, Bezos, Gates, Musk, Page, Cook, Gore...pay their share voluntarily. If they care about the planet so much, and they think the Paris accord is such a great deal from a business point of view, go for it. We will see how many step up...

              1. ahorseback profile image76
                ahorsebackposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                +++++++Zuckerberg , Branden ,  Hollywood , .................Bloomberg will be paying with a senate check , NOT out of his personal account for damned sure .

                1. jackclee lm profile image82
                  jackclee lmposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  Bloomberg is a philanthropist. I take him at his word. I am going to hold him to his pledge. In fact, I am thinking of starting a campaign called the Bloomberg plan to save the planet...
                  Everytime some smart entrepreneur bring up climate change, I will ask if he will follow suit and put his money where his mouth is and donate to this fund. That will shut them up quick...

                  1. ahorseback profile image76
                    ahorsebackposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    Careful !      He may threaten a move across the border , you know ? Canada.

              2. PhoenixV profile image80
                PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                They put in a lot of time and effort making that money. Theyre not gonna just throw their money away on perforated water buckets.

            2. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              Once again, your contribution has made everything crystal clear.

              1. PhoenixV profile image80
                PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                I'll call Shell and Toyota and tell them to have their desks cleaned out by lunch. We'll teach the cows to just turn themselves in, at McDonalds.

  8. PhoenixV profile image80
    PhoenixVposted 5 months ago

    Liberals dabble in saving the world by demanding someone else do it. The reality is they dabble in saving the world by demanding someone else give it pain management.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

      That ridiculous. Socially conscious entrepreneurs are making a positive impact on the world. it is possible to make huge sums of money innovating environmentally friendly products and services. If you don't see a problem or opportunity for something better, you won't bother to create anything new. Your statement is a reflection of your limited thinking and political bias. I would never conclude your personal opinion is representative of conservatives, though, because umping conservatives together and claiming to know what they think and do would be arrogant and self-limitiing. You might try viewing people as individuals. It frees your mind to see people instead of talking points.

      1. PhoenixV profile image80
        PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

        Positive impact. Enviromentally friendly.  Pain management.

        The Chinese need 5 trillion in reactors going online yesterday. Plus everyone needs to stop flying to Paris and driving cars. You should be nicer to conservatives. Theyre the charitable ones with the wallets that can get it done, as opposed to talking about it.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

          You obviously don't want to have a genuine discussion. Conservatives aren't capable of speaking with individuals; they can only place individuals in a conservative vs liberal context. It is easier on their simple minds.

          See how that works?

          I don't really believe that about conservatives. I'm just using your own tactic on you. I do, however, believe it about you, the individual, based upon your comments in this thread..

          1. PhoenixV profile image80
            PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

            Notwithstanding, one of us has an mppt and the other has advice.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

              And you make a sweeping conclusion based upon that? Your oversimplification allows you to feel superior but further cements my view of your lack of sincere intentions and inability to look beyond stereotypes.

              1. PhoenixV profile image80
                PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                My car gets 40 mpg on a tank of sincere intentions.

                1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                  roll

                  1. PhoenixV profile image80
                    PhoenixVposted 5 months agoin reply to this

                    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Douglas_MacArthur_lands_Leyte1.jpg

                    wb btw.

 
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