How crazy is it.....?

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   Cagsilposted 14 years ago

   Hey Hubbers,
   
   While most people on average are caught up in their daily routine, I figure I would try to catch those who are on HubPages to discuss something.
   
   However, it is unfortunate, some people might not like what is said, but to be completely honesty, I find it fairly hard to see how things are to work properly.
   
   Now- religious folk, those who follow god's will or laws, are supposedly not sit in judgment of anyone. There are plenty of religious folk who make judgmental statements about other people's action and deemed them immoral, more often than not.
   
   On a side note- the laws that govern people are enforced by the citizens(on a jury) of the community. These same citizens, a fairly good portion, have some religious bias, that always plays a factor in their decision making.
   
   Meaning, if there are bunches of religious folk on a Jury, how can they be trusted to put their bias aside??
   
   Doesn't having a bunch of religious folk on a Jury automatically provide an appeal? It would be considered prejudice weighted...right?
   
   So, let me know what you think...?
   
   Thank you in advance.

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      kmackey32posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Your always right.....

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Not really Kmackey. But, usually right more often than not.

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      Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Your fear of religion is affecting your ability to reason.

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Your comment is ridiculous. I do not fear religion. And, religion is not affecting my ability to reason.
         
         However, religion does skew their followers view.

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            Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, that is what the fearful always say to cover their shame.
            
            
            As for the rest, you really need to think a little more carefully about your 'legal' opinions 'cause they make 0 sense.

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               Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I wouldn't expect you to understand anything I say. But, thank you for your input.

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                  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  YOU wouldn't expect anyone to understand you, because you are the guru who understands the truth and meaning of life where others do not 

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                     Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Actually, you happen to be wrong yet again.
                     
                     I don't expect YOU to understand me. I know plenty of people who do. So, your attempt to mock is meaningless and baiting material.
                     
                     So, with that said. Enjoy!
                     
                     And, I'm sure you will throw out some comment, to assure yourself and your ego.

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   DoorMattnomoreposted 14 years ago

   also, all people of power have been placed there by God....

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      And, where did you learn that one?

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         DoorMattnomoreposted 14 years agoin reply to this

           I didnt mean I believe it...its just another wierd contradictory thing in religion. shit....
         
         give me a google minute....
         
         
         when I was a kid, I was told to be neutral, as GOD will handle everything. But the bible somewhere says to support political rulers cuz they are all placed by God.
         
         but I wasnt allowed to vote.
         
         blech....I dont care. I hope  the world ends in 2012 and I wont have to think anymore.....

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            But, if the world ends, then we cannot be friends no more and why would you want to end our friendship?

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               DoorMattnomoreposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               i just dont want to think anymore

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      kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      OMG

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      DoorMattnomoreposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Romans 13:1 - "Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.""
      
      again...just what got punched in to my head as a kid

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   Ohmaposted 14 years ago

   A little to much time on your Hands Cags?
   
   
   
   But no really yes I agree that a religious jury would tend to sway toward the values of those teachings and in my opinion taint the verdict. Having said that I must add that with or without religion there are a number of things that are just wrong in everyone's mind and for these things like murder, rape, etc. I think the outcome would be the same no matter what the makeup of the jury was.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The sentencing phase? Don't you think?
      
      Life in Prison versus Death Penalty?
      
      And, no I have all the time I need. Can never have too much time for anything.

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         Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think the sentencing phase could definitely be an issue.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you Ohma, Door and Kimberly for weighing in. Much appreciated.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Hey Ohma, think of it one step further now....
            
            The appeals process? All the time and money spent on it?
            
            Remember, like I said, it's automatically a basis for appeal, so appeal process is going to happen, regardless of outcome.

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               Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "like I said, it's automatically a basis for appeal"
               
               No, it is not.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You keep believing that.

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                     Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Like I said, go ask a lawyer or other legal expert about your 'theory.'

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         Rochelle Frankposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         But some 'religious ' people are opposed to the death penalty and some are not, so why would that be different than any other group?

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That is a nice point Rochelle. Why would it matter? It just means that they do not understand their own beliefs nor do they understand how they formed that belief, for which, when it comes time to decide...they cannot be honest enough to be of any good to the system. Their choice will be tainted, compared to those who are not of any religious view or outlook.

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               Rochelle Frankposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Everyone's choice is tainted. (and I'm being objective)

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  

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   kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years ago

   There is no human possible way that jury would not be bias.  It's an argument that should be forced for those who believe different to be the criminal and have a jury full of religious people opposite of your religion and a death penalty would be possible.
   
   My terribly written point is why do so many of us have to be right?  Why do most of us never consider walking in someone else's shoes, and not even having to know the details?
   
   I judge no one and your belief.  It would not enter my mind, nor do I feel I have the right to, it;s ignorance.
   
   But what is consistent is hate.  Hate for each others beliefs, so judgement is spit out.
   
   I hate that!

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   Ohmaposted 14 years ago

   But the appeal will not overturn the conviction only the sentencing.
   When thinking about it in dollars and cents yes it could be very costly.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Not could be costly. IS costly!

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Btw- prejudice jury on appeal would overturn the verdict, and bring on a new trial, with a new jury?

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   Diane Insideposted 14 years ago

   Yes there is no possible way any jury will not have some biases no matter what their beliefs are.  But they do have a jury selection process that both sides get to weigh in and  have jury members that both sides agree upon.

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   seanorjohnposted 14 years ago

   When it comes down to it you could find a case for no one being eligble to sit on a jury.Should the: rich sit in judgement of the poor,white v black,Republican v Democrat,High IQ's v low IQ's,city folk v rural folk etc. All will lack some degree of empathy and bring prejudices to bear.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nice to point that out, but you offer no solution?

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         seanorjohnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The solution is that we trust the people to collectively act in a just manner, accepting that we are not infallible.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That would be all well and good, but religious folk cannot be trusted. Sorry, but they cannot.

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               Diane Insideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               no fanatics cannot be trusted.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, of course fanatics cannot be trusted, but how would you be able to tell the difference, on a jury?

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                     Diane Insideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     you can't thats why we must trust the jury selection process, that's what it is there for the weed out the people with agendas.

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                        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        And it is still manipulated. So, no solution. Thank you for your responses.

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               seanorjohnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               But do you think whites can be trusted to judge blacks and rich v poor etc.Why single out religion.We have to trust the majority to put prejudices aside. Otherwise we leave it to the select few.That is the path to tyranny.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Religion breeds distrusting people who are not honest with themselves, much less other people.
                  
                  You compare color of people or status, like rich or poor? Which have nothing to do with it.
                  
                  
                  Edit: distrustful people is what religions breeds.

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                     seanorjohnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Cags, you should study the troubles in Northern Ireland.The fighting and killing was never about religion.Pure power and politics.

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                        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Okay, and what is your point? Nice, irrelevant post. Thank you for your input.

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                     Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     "Religion breeds distrusting people who are not honest with themselves, much less other people."
                     
                     
                     Exactly the opposite.

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   Ohmaposted 14 years ago

   I think there are some on both sides of the fence that can be trusted and some that can't.
   Lumping people together into a standard of behavior based on their beliefs is sort of like saying all all redheads have bad tempers or all overweight people are jolly.
   It is a very bad habit to get into.

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   Diane Insideposted 14 years ago

   There are people with agendas on both sides of the aisle. That the truth no way around it. The jury selection process was put in place to help weed those people out. It is not infalable, but it is all we have, and it works pretty well. It's not perfect but it never will be because we are human, not machines.
   
   Cags, you say religion breeds distrusting people but it seems to me that you are the one who sounds distrusting.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Why do you say that? You make no sense.
      
      Religion breeds selfish people. How can you trust a selfish person?

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         Diane Insideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No religion does not breed selfish people, there are selfish people in all beliefs religious or not.  I respect your decision to not have a religion that is your choice, but it seems like you do not trust anyone who is religious. And by religious I mean believes in God. I do not go to church, but I believe in God.  Even though you do not I still would trust you if I knew you and felt like you could be trusted. I have friends who do not believe the way I do but I know they can be trusted.  You need to not put people in boxes not all religous people are fanatics. Just as all atheists are not bad people. I like you from what I see on hubpages. You make people think and challenge people which is always good, but I would hope that you could see that their beleifs do not interfere with being a trustworthy person.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Religion breeds selfish people. Parents teach their children about god, even if they do not believe it themselves, to give them an option. When religion obtains a follower, that follow becomes selfish through the use of the doctrines religion teaches. So, yes religion breeds selfish people.
            
            And, yes selfish people can have no religion. Elimination of religion provides less selfish people in the long run.
            A religious person is more inclined to be selfish, because that's what religion teaches. Again, how can you trust a selfish person to do what's right?
            It's a higher cause other than humanity. That action is selfish.
            I trust only two people. I have faith in people to do what's right when necessary. The problem is too many looking out for themselves. Too much selfishness. Not enough caring about others.
            I did not say they were all fanatics. I said they could not be trusted.
            Actually, with the irrational ideology of god, makes most religious not trustworthy. Because, they cannot think for themselves. They do not guide themselves, but are lead.
            
            Again, Thank you for your input.

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               Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "Religion breeds selfish people."
               
               Human nature breeds selfish people. And fearful people. I'm sure you know what I mean...

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Human nature breeds a lot of things. I have nothing to fear.

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                     Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     No you don't, so you should work on getting over your irrational fear.

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               Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "A religious person is more inclined to be selfish"
               
               Exactly the opposite.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Actually, not true. For those who are religious and follow the teachings of being selfless, then they turn selfish, it human nature.
                  
                  Sorry.

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                     Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Your fear of religion is clouding your thinking. If you get ahold of your emotions and think about it, you'll see that almost all religions are about community. Community is not about selfishness, distrust, or dishonesty.

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    kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years ago

    someone said weed, honest.

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       Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hey Kimberly

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    Diane Insideposted 14 years ago

    Okay what scenario if any are you thinking in a courtroom, would there be a mostly religous jury, that would damage the outcome of the case. Just curious.

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       Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       More than 75% of American citizens are of some sort of religious faith, so you think about it?

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          Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe YOU should think about that...

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             Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I have thought about it. You make no point. Nice post.

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                Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I don't think you have thought about it. Ask a real lawyer about it.

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    Diane Insideposted 14 years ago

    No I mean is it about the death penalty, is that what you are opposed to? Or are you for the death penalty? Is that the bottom line? I mean if the verdict of guilty is stated beyond a shadow of a doubt. According to all the evidence presented. Then what do you oppose exactly? And I am saying for the charge of 1st degree murder.

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    Diane Insideposted 14 years ago

    Are you avoiding my question, whats up?

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    Diane Insideposted 14 years ago

    Sab Oh why did you hijack my conversation with Cags I was really curious to what he thinks and I don't understand why you did this. I understand you beliefs are very strong and you want to share your opinion but really it just seems like you are trying to provoke Cags. I just wanted to learn his prospective.

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       Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Feel free to carry on any discussion you like.

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          Diane Insideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          yeah right thanks.

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    ralwusposted 14 years ago

    hmmm, personally I have always believed the worst convicts should be both judge and jury. Would they be tainted?

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    zzronposted 14 years ago

    You got me on this one brother, I'm not religious but I am a Christian so if telling a jury that I'm religious would get me out of jury duty then that works for me. LOL.

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