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The Demise of Guys

Updated on January 11, 2013

My concern

I have an invested interest in this topic. I just gave birth to a hefty and beautiful baby boy a few months ago. I have a daughter as well who is 4 yrs old. I see her strong personality and I admire her range of interests. I brag to myself 'Wow, I've done an awesome job raising her to be a strong girl, and someday woman'. Now, what about raising our boy? Well, I was hoping my husband would give me guidance on that, but being honest, he states he never knew his father so he will be "winging" it also.

I realized our generation (or younger) and majority of boys have not had a male role model available to them. The single mom phenomena or movement, whatever you want to call it, was becoming increasingly popular in my days. Today women are choosing not to have a man around for conceiving and raising children. The likelihood of a boy growing up without a father now is considerable. Another sad aspect is boys are less likely to admit to needing help or reaching out so possible male role models may be around, for example a teacher, but boys are probably not going to reach out.

How can we not expect this to effect boys and men? No significant changes in society go unnoticed, undiagnosed, or in some way effecting society as a whole. For instance we will see in 20+ years or sooner, how the tech phenomena will effect the younger generations growing up glued to a tech gadget. Indeed we are seeing the changes already while many are being fore-casted.

The trouble is when something in particular effects a whole gender. The fact that we're dealing with a recession and slow economy, which tends to employ less labor jobs (typical for young males) and many of those jobs are now being shipped overseas too, is cause to worry for our boys. The other issues is technology being what it is, not only do boys play a ton of video games, but now they don't even have to talk to anyone in person with texting etc and they learn about women through a vast array of online porn sites.

The negative effects on males is that of social, psychological, and academically as well as employment opportunities. I personally believe social skills are invaluable for boys, whereas girls tend to be born with a bit of the social bug already in them. Females are also relationship oriented by nature- of course this isn't a hard and fast rule but it's fairly predictable and standard as compared to boys. Boys need exactly what is gradually slipping away.

Their concern

I'm using the proverbial "they" and referring to the media, teachers, psychologists, and other information coming from sources who witness the changing society's effects on boys.

What they're saying:

  • "It's becoming a woman's world"
  • "more women are going to college and employment opportunities are now centered around knowledge-based carers, giving those (women) with an education the advantage"
  • "boys are learning about sex and women through online porn"
  • "video games and tech gadgets are impariing their social skills"
  • "Our boys are growing up now in conditions they did not create"
  • "Fatherless boys are most likely to rape, have anger problems, learning difficulties, developmental delays, run away, drop out of school, and go to prison"

War and the sexes

It's not really so much about the war of the sexes anymore as much as it is about war and sex. Another concern we face is a whole generation of young men who went off to war and have seen images now imprinted on their brain that shouldn't be brought home. They come home to their wives and families, only to discover they don't feel like they belong in that world. It's effecting them as fathers and husbands. Women are kicking their husbands out of the house for playing too many video games (many featuring war themes) and online porn is ruining marriages as well.

Many who come home from being deployed have PTSD (Port Traumatic Stress Disorder). This disorder has serious implications including suicide, abusiveness, nightmares, lack of social function, depression and other mental disorders. War, porn, and video games are desensitizing our young men to a point that they have no clue how to live in reality, how to build genuine relationships, thrive in an academic setting, and actively seek or retain employment.


A source

An extremely reputable psychologist has written an e -book on this topic, 'The Demise of Guys; Why Boys are Struggling and What we can do About it'. The book is based on alarming trends and statistics; in record num­bers, guys seem to be flam­ing out aca­d­e­m­i­cally, wip­ing out socially with girls, and as they mature, fail­ing sex­u­ally with women".

Also, "other fac­tors emerged such as the role of being father­less for boys who are liv­ing their lives isolated, play­ing video games and watch­ing inter­net porn. But the soci­etal issues involved are really mon­u­men­tal and must be more widely rec­og­nized and dis­cussed. We also wanted to get the ball rolling on pro­vid­ing some ini­tial solutions," sated by the author.

So what does this book have that others claiming "alarming" issues and something we should all be aware of, doesn't? I'm not crying wolf here nor am I ranting about global warming. As I stated before, the author Phillip Zimbardo is one of the best in the field, a pioneer in psychology (look up Zimbardo's Stanford prison experiment), and the man does his research. He is a gifted genius in his field and doesn't write or state anything unless he is well informed.

His suggestions on what to do about it, well first is mass recognition- as a society, we need to not only be aware but realize the consequences. Also, reversing the trends is part of the solution- not as much access to computers and gaming systems. The sad thing is, parents are overly busy and substitute their time for that of a tech gadget. Hey, I've seen it even at a pre-school level- the 4 yr old with a gaming toy or portable dvd player.



Is the overuse of video games and online porn causing the demise of guys?

See results

Uh-oh!

Some of the research in this book include:

  • Boys account for 70% of D's and F's in school
  • Boys are more likely to have ADD (attention deficit disorder).
  • The average teen boy spends 2 hours a week watching online porn and 13 hours a week playing video games
  • Most boys are not sure of their role in society because of mixed messages by the media

Here's another one of my concerns: Having a 13 yr old step-daughter, I have noticed that when both girls and boys are not doing well or striking out with the opposite sex, they are quicker to consider they may be gay...or "other" (metrosexual or trans, etc) of some sort.


Get off your ass

What to do about it? First is mass recognition- as a society, we need to not only be aware but realize the consequences now before the effects are too great to reverse. Also, reversing the trends is part of the solution- not as much access to computers and gaming systems. The sad thing is, parents are overly busy and simultaneously lazy. They substitute their time for that of a tech gadget. Hey, I've seen it even at a pre-school level- the 4 yr old with a gaming toy or portable dvd player.

Why I'm going to beg you to read this and if you care about a boy, do your part!

Hello!!! 93% of prison inmates are male! The school systems suck today so don't expect your child to get attention there or learn everything there. Boys think reading is girly! Even if you are raising a girl, what kind of guys do you want available for her? The rise of women will be at the cost of men.


Friend of mine- he's done a great job raising his boys who are in a successful band. Check it out!

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    • mts1098 profile image

      mts1098 7 months ago from InsideTheManCave

      Hmmm...I grew up without a father as well and there are many things that he could have taught me to make my life easier...I suppose looking back it worked out better for me as I learned to figure out life and trust my instincts. This, I believe, made me a better man and father myself. Now - having said that, I make certain that my son benefits from my time with him and that he always has the male perspective in his life because I didn't have that. Father or no father it is the time you spend with your child that will benefit them the most...cheers

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Sorry about the mix up in names izettl I was thinking about one of my other followers but still if you would like to check out that link you are more than welcome to.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Thank you very much Au Fait I really do appreciate that. Hey if you are interested I have written quite a few new articles and this one here is my newest one if you are interested here's a link.

      http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Dinosaur-Monster...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      sam,

      I am glad to hear that your mom has your best interest in mind. You've been through a lot and after times like that, you always need to look out for yourself as well.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl you said in one of your previous comments that my mom and dad could both be duping me well yes my dad definitely is but after what's happened these past few days its very unlikely that my mom is duping me. When I went back to my dads house to get my stuff he confessed to a lot of what my mom said. And he is going to lose his house soon now that I am not living there anymore and he cant take my social security money just like my mom said would happen. I am now convinced that my mom is not duping me the possibility that she is duping me seems very unlikely now.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      You'll have to find a college nearby or if you can maintain good study skills, there are lots of online colleges. I thought of doing that to finish my graduate degree.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Yes there are buses here but I have no interest in driving I don't like cars (and I am kind of afraid of them) but I can also ride my bike, get a ride with someone I know, a cab or train.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Do you have a transit system- bus or otherwise. Driving is a big plus in being able to be independent.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      I cant drive I never learned so that could be a problem but there is always the University of Toledo (I live in Toledo Ohio).

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Choose the college you want to go to (usually community college is a good start- I did that first). Go to the front desk at the college and there is usually a financial aid office they can direct you too. In my state, they determine your financial aid award depending on your parent's income until you are 24. If your parents don't make much then you will get aid. Ask financial aid people in office about the different awards. They have application deadlines to so be sure to get informed on that. It's a lot of paperwork but you can through it and if you need assistance they have people there to help you. Once you've applied for it, it is less paperwork later on.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      How do I get financial assistance by the way.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      I hope so izettl because if Au Fait is right and my mom is no better than my dad than angry and sad will not be good enough words to describe how I will feel angry and sad will be understatements five miles long. If I need some advice on what to do I will ask you and Au Fait for it.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Wow, that's a lot to take in Sam. Yes, it sounds like some games being played, perhaps by both your dad and mom. Did your dad directly mistreat you? It's tough finding a job right now so I'd look into getting financial assistance to go to college. I did most of my college on financial aid. Always try to be as independent as possible. People will use your dependence sometimes and treat you as if they have the advantage over you. Get to know your half brother and sister as best as you can before considering moving in. A lot of people haven't looked out for you so begin looking out for yourself as much as you can. College is a good place to start though. Best of luck, keep in touch.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey Izettl I got something to tell you. It turns out that my dad was lying to me the whole time and was just trying to set my mom up my dad was only telling me his side of the story well now I got my moms side of it. My mom was a drug addict but only because my dad got her hooked she was addicted to my dads pain meds. My dad got help but my mom didn't. I live with my mom again now and she is going to help me get a job, a college and a dentist to see (which my dad has done none of these in three years) and my dad has also been taking my social security money behind my back. I have proof that my mom is telling the truth. My dad has had two previous marriages years before he even met my mom. In his first marriage he had a son (my half-brother named Chason) and in his second marriage he had a daughter (my half-sister named Sarah). He has told me that they exist but never thought that I would ever find and meet them well I have just recently found and meet them on facebook. Chason lives in Arizona and Sarah lives in California and have not seen dad since he left them years ago. They both confirm what my mom has told me that he was a bad father and husband. He mistreated both Chason's mother and Sarah's mother and even threatened and stalked them too. My mom has never even met Sarah and Chason or their mothers so they cant all be lying about this and making up the same story which just leaves us with one conclusion that my mom is in fact telling the truth and that my dad has been playing me for a fool. One of my other followers (Au Fait) told me that she is still not convinced that my mom is innocent but in case she is right (which I hope she is not) I have a backup plan. I am going to give my mom on year to help me make some progress and if no progress is made than I will move out of her house. I will leave my mom, dad and if need be my whole family. I could move in with my old Guidance Couselor from school, or my best friend, or my half-brother Chason, or my half-sister Sarah or any of my friends I just hope somebody will take me in if that is what I have to do.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl do any of these man hating women seem disturbed to you the reason I ask is because of this and I apologise if this is kind of long.

      There was a site that was debating who is supperior male or female it said males were destroyers and females were creators (males can create to). One of the commentors said females are because females are the creative ones and the ones with that have had more concern for the well being of the human race. (She means creative as in artistic but men done artistic things to and there are a lot of men out there that have concern for the human race such as humanitarians and even if only a few men do it is a lot better then none at all not every man kills or makes weapons and such things.) She then says that men have turned forests into wastelands and polluted water. (Women have dont things like that to and not every man has done that there are a lot of men out there who work to protect those things such as environmentalists.) She says men are only capable of filth, and abuse, and stupidity. She then says man is indeed a unique mutation a hybrid in between apes and true humans. She says men are ugly because they have square heads, they fart to much, there bodys are to hairy, and there genitals hang like rotten fruit she then says anyone who finds beauty in these creatures must be blind or brainwashed by our unhealthy society (ok I know that is not true I looked up the definition of both blind and brainwashed and neither one applies to what she said blind is when you dont understand something and brainwashing applies mostly to political and religious ideology). She then says hopefully with advancement in gene therapys and nanotechnology we can bring women over towards the womans side (she means make them more lesbian) so we can help each other out (help each other out with what). She even says men are a waste of social energy there Y chromosomes are stupid and that men have had it too good for too long and that they have been put on a pedastal and worshiped (ok men have not it that good) she then says what have they done to earn the love of 99% of the human population (because not every man is like or has done what she is saying she needs to think of men as individuals because men are not groups). And in the ens she said I am dead serious about the elimination of the human male from this planet like the dinosaurs before them it seems they are doomed to the dustbin of history maybe back when humans were more primitive men were needed but that time is coming to an end and rightly so.

      And she said this was true (ok how can any of this be true and just because it is true to her that dosent mean it is true in real life. The only thing that about these women that astounds me more then their ignorance is their arrogance. Who the hell do these women think they are they think the mistakes of some men gives them the god given right to exterminate all men no one has the right ot decide that and as I have said before parthenogenesis is impossible in humans.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      That same woman even said something about you and your rapist ways like your father but ill deal with you. Again she is putting men down probably to make jokes of it (she did say her channel was satire) and I am sorry I did not get all of this in my comment I forgot parts of it.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      (Sorry I forgot to mention this.) Those women even say men are pointless and that women are superior.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      And it would seem some feminists think its funny to call all men and boys rapists just because they have a penis I found a youtube channel once and thats what they were talking about yet they claim the channel was satire and they even said things like thabk God for prostate cancer and the maker of the channel said she likes men who get drunk loose their penis strengths and fall on a knife 40 times she also likes male holocaust castration and an all female society she even says that men are the downfall of the universe and that all men think rape or something.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      In one of my previous comments there was this feminist who said that men are crazy well I could say the same thing about some feminists I mean there was this feminist who said boys are so nice and cute and cuddly I just want to stab them in their dumb (F word) piece of (S word) faces.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      I learned long time ago that most feminists are impossible to communicate with...very inflexible. Their way or no way- they fail to see the grey area in life and they only see the black and white.

      Some (not all feminists I have meet good feminists) are so unwilling to even listen to anything that differs from what they believe there was this one feminist who said and I quote (if you think there is sexism towards men you have no place here) she will not even let men (even if they are feminists in fact she criticizes male feminists) comment on her page only women appearently only women who agree with her and yet she says she respects their opinions than why doesnt she respect their opinion that there is sexism towards men.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I learned long time ago that most feminists are impossible to communicate with...very inflexible. Their way or no way- they fail to see the grey area in life and they only see the black and white.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I agree Sam. I think counseling and good old fashioned reflection on one's life is grossly underrated in our country. Too many people with too many problems and issues and not enough seek help, instead the Internet is used to voice all sort of bad info and people from extreme groups like certain feminists recruit others who may have had a healthy mind (before) but naïve or susceptible to influences.

      What's also interesting is anger is a very typical response and coping feeling for men and many of these feminists act like men, especially with the anger.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      One of the things that surprises me even more is how some of these women know that misandry is wrong and don't care from what I have noticed many of them think misandry is right.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Something else about these women that really ticks me off is how one-sided they are they complain about how men use women for sex and get them pregnant and that the man didn't have to feel guilty if the woman got an abortion and that those women were innocent. How the hell were those women innocent they were the ones that were stupid enough to have sex without protection KNOWING FULL WELL that they could either get pregnant or catch an STD that just shows how much respect those women had for themselves so those women were not innocent I don't feel sorry for those women unless they were forced they were not innocent.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I think you're right Sam.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hatred seems like a very easy emotion these particular feminists are being hateful without even realizing it I think that's one of the things that makes hate so easy is that anyone can do it without even realizing it.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam, that's why I refuse to stoop to their low level of humanity. Hate gets attention and extremists get attention as well. Klu Klux Klan is still in existence and while I have my own thoughts on prejudice and that it isn't awful, and can even save lives, if we have some prejudice, I do not hate.

      In psychology, we used to talk about thinking errors and one is "all or nothing" thinking. Many feminists have issues with a few men in their life and then they think ALL men are like that. Also, men are not a protected group of people so it is easier and more acceptable to hate men because no law or prejudice will apply to them.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      I am also sick of these particular feminists blaming all or most men for things that individual men have done there was this one who said that males are poison just because her father abused her and her brother was not much better (I don't know what she meant by that) why must they associate that with all or most men I am sorry that happened to her but that is not my fault ands its not the fault of other men either it was her father and him alone hold him accountable for it not the rest of us why should we take responsibility for things that individuals have done and besides sometimes women commit abuse to I swear it amazes me how ignorant these particular feminists are and this woman is an atheist I thought atheists were suppose to know better than that I guess not.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      If these particular feminist are really acting out of fear than they must be terrified of men because I remember one feminist say (The reality is that men are unpleasant and oppressive in to many deal breaking ways I gotta stay away from men its for my own good.) These women are so far out there its a wonder how they function in the real world.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hate is a strong word I known izettl but some of the things that the more extreme feminists come up with are so far put there you could swear some of these women were disturbed (men always trying to drain me of my sexual energy I like my sexual energy and they cant have it) (I don't think they (men) can be with us (women or feminists) without draining us of our energy's I mean that's the point to heterosexual relationships) some are even trans-phobic (not you izettl you don't strike me as trans-phobic) with some saying that trans-genderism and transvestiteism is misogynist and this one feminist even has a blog called dead men don't rape. This all really says a lot about how much they hate us and think so little of issues that affect us well as they say what goes around comes around. And they have this idea of what a real woman is that's no better than the patriarchal idea of what a real woman is and when a woman does not fit that they criticize them it seems like they cant even keep the peace in their own sisterhood

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam and Dark proxy,

      Most of these women have had some issues obviously with men. I can't say I hate them...cause I try and teach that to my children. Not to HATE someone, but to hate their actions. People usually act in fear. So when we say we hate something or someone, it means we have a fear of it. I've said I hated something before until I heard my young children say they hate something and it sounds awful to hear it out of little kids so I'm a little careful about that word. When a kid is trying to do something difficult and they decide to give up, one of their first words is how they HATE whatever it is they're failing at doing. So I think hate stunts us and causes us to sit back and say it, but not do anything. I write these pieces cause I truly hate some of the actions taken by modern feminists- they are ruining some aspects of society and creating more hate. I feel sorry for the person themselves- I know they are acting in fear and pain.

    • Darkproxy profile image

      Darkproxy 4 years ago from Ohio

      I hate the modern feminist they only bitch and whine about the dumbest of things ever. Plus they never say what it is they want.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      I have said a lot of things about modern feminists (the ones who hate men) that really anger me but you know what makes me mad the most about them some of them think men cant love. There was this one who said men cant love they think love is moshy goshy stuff and that men are destructive and why do men pretend to care that is what I hate most about these women.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      You said we all go through bumps in life well I guess all this misandry is just one of those bumps. I have heard radical feminists making threats of murdering male children (male infanticide) there was even this one feminist who called male children little Fs and then she said Mr. Rape Threat and this woman is a social worker. Some of these women hold respectable positions of power. There was this one woman who said to me once that I should pity these misandrist's instead of hate them because they have probably been abused well I am sorry but I don't pity them I don't think they deserve pity or love. These women are not women these women are not even human they are monsters well you know what they say what goes around comes around and I hope to God I am alive when they get there's. I'm just being honest with how I feel about these radicals.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Once we've been really hurt, it comes up sometimes in life. Most of the time the deep hurts are from childhood. It's too bad cause we are so vulnerable at that time and have no coping skills. You are similar to me Jeanine in that others' pain reminds me of my own or I just feel so much for them that it resonates depely with me. we all have a story and it is how we become who we are- I wouldn't trade ME for any other story!!!

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      It is part of the healing process that we all must go through... one must discuss the pain and suffering in order to really actually try and get over it... lately while trying to help a friend of mine I felt the same way.... I felt things about my own hurt and pain deep within my own soul.....which I thought I had left behind ... yet part of the hurt was still there... I wished there was an easier way to get past the pain but I don't think there is...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      We all go through bumps in our life. I don't think we ever get over it- just heal and then something else opens that wound. I thought I was over some of the pain my dad caused our family and recently I was emailing with a lady whose husband was doing the same thing with her and I was pretty forward about telling her to leave but I also realized it brought up things I thought I was over with my dad.

      I'm always here for you. I don't know what I'd do without hubpages to vent on, write, and get to know some great people.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Well thank you izettl. I am sorry if I left a couple to many comments I was having some personal problems but I got it figured out now I regard all my followers as friends and you have always been a good friend to me izettl and I will always be greatfull. :)

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam, this reminds me of extreme religious type too. These are just exreme groups and be thankful that since you were expoised to this that you are not one of them- you have an independant mind!

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Also izettl there was one other woman and a man who said this.

      There's no power for women, except for being independent and being of independent means. When women change their names and become someone else's property, they've lost the war. When a women is down on her knees, she has no power. How many women, who are stay at home wives and mothers are still treated as "the house slave," as one' friend's husband calls her. Women have received all of the backlash from the feminist movement, but not the privileges. Remember, the Equal Rights Amendment failed. Domestic violence is still one of the leading causes of death for women in the world.

      I totally agree with you. I also see how MANY women dote on their precious sons, giving them priority over the daughters in almost every aspect, directly and indirectly nurturing little "kings" who grow up to become real macho, aggressive male chauvinists. Indeed, not a few mothers are STUPID, and far too many boys are spoiled BRATS...

      That's why I always tell those friends of mine who have little boys, NOT to spoil their sons.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl I found more misandry from another woman. Here's what she says.

      Men are crazy. and men hate women. this is why we need laws to punish them and teach them, because that's how they will learn. the feminist movement makes this a priority, because we understand how the male mind works. men, and their enablers, get irrational and scream about "male-hating" when somebody dares to tell the truth.

      but the truth is the truth, no matter how many insults and crazy knee jerk reactions we hear. don't tell me BUT IT ISN'T ALL MEN. so, what do you want to hear? it's only 95%? does that change anything? and do the men who don't kill women want awards for not behaving like garbage? that proves how low standards are in the first place.

      the first step is creating a society where we are comfortable with honestly and objectively discussing the major problem with male behavior and male hatred towards women. men flip out at the slightest bit of honest criticism, because they've gotten away with scapegoating women for so long. they're too crazy and irrational to deal honestly with themselves. so women are going to have to step up, from india to syria to italy to california. this needs to stop.

      They say it's not all men because that's true it is not all men not matter how much she may say or think it is and not all men flip out at criticism or expect awards when they don't act like trash sometimes people who criticize feminism do have valid criticisms and sometimes women scream woman-hating anytime someone tells the truth about them. Sometimes this stuff really gets to me because it makes me feel like deep down I will always be bad no matter how well I treat women. Izettl what do you say.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam,

      I think boys receive pressure from society as well. What guys turns down sex, even if its from a teacher? That's what society thinks but there are plenty of innocent guys out there. I once dated a guy who had one sex partner before we met (we never had sex) and he said a massage therapist tried some stuff with him and it actually scared him a little. He had model good looks but was very innocent type.

      There are predators and prey, no matter what sex it is. Also I was in psychology for years and anything from studies to brain scans confirm that the human brain id not fully developed until 20 or 21. In fact teens have hormonal influences and other issues to deal with that make hteir judgment the worst.

    • Darkproxy profile image

      Darkproxy 4 years ago from Ohio

      samo that person needs to get smacked up side the head with a fucking hammer for a few reasons their comments are barely understandable ,lack grammar basics, and full of shit

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      I read on the internet once there ws this teenage boy who was in a sexual relationship with his teacher the teacher was ater convicted of child molestation. One of the commentors said (I think the socialization of boys is always trouble girls are sugar and spice they are at least partly to blame for these attrocities.) Half of me thinks how dare you blame the boy you pig but at the same time I am thinking he or she (I dont know the gender of this person) is right at that age he should know better. Izettl what do you think.

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      Darkproxy 4 years ago from Ohio

      I'm not sure what to say about this it seems that video games may be a problem as well as men isolating themselves. The world doesn't want us around unless it needs some cogs or a couch moved. Videogames are at least where we can go and be something, supersoldiers brave heroes useful and most often the strong smart man. I know this video game Heavy Rain this father has to save his son by jumping through high voltage power breakers and has to kill drug dealers to prove he loves his son, but the greatest fiction in this game is that the father has joint custody of his kid. We want to leave this world it hates us and we know it.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Izettl

      That link that I posted to that article in my last comment I read the article and it basically says that masculinity is inheiritently evil and link with violence, that fatherhood is a social construct as are other major male role models, and that it might have something to do with women being inferior to men, and that women ae unique and men are not and that soon men will not be needed to continue womanity. It's basically saying that all men are useless and for a man to feel usefull and important and needed is not good and that men are only good as sperm donators and ironicaly it is two men who say all of this. I HAVE NEVER FELT MORE DEHUMANIZED IN ALL MY LIFE I WAS REALLY CRYING MY EYES OUT OVER THIS IS MY EXISTANCE AS A MAN THAT MEANINGLESS DO I ONLY EXIST TO CONTINUE THE SPECIES AND THAT'S IT GOD IF THIS IS WHAT IT IS TO BE A MAN PLEASE KILL ME BECAUSE I AM NOT SURE I WANT TO LIVE ANYMORE. :'(

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hi izettl

      I really would like you to read this and tell me what you say please.

      http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/david-flynn-d...

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hi izettl

      I wrote an article that I think you might be interested .

      http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Sexism-Towards-M... reading

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I've always said you are who you are when nobody is watching. the only place I've felt the need to cheat is at work. Seriously...I feel cheated by employers- everywhere and in several industries, I've felt employers exploit employees and managers are the ones who can't do the regualr jobs well so they're placed in manangement.

      totally off topic, but anyway, I absolutely know what you mean. People do this in relationships all the time if they feel justified, which that third person you're talking about will justify just about anything.

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      jeanine 4 years ago

      we all have those three people that we are... our public person, our private person, generally the one you are with your husband or wife and then the third person... that third person is the cheater in all of us... it's the one that we feel we have to be to survive... it is also the most dangerous of us all... because he or she doesn't cheat like everyone else... rest assure, she may not be the one sleeping around but she/he is a cheater... she is the flirt in us girls, he is the guy who looks at porn... this third person is the one we have known sense we were children... our secret friend or imaginary friend is what our parents called her... some are larger than others but we all have her or him in our lives... the lonelier the person the bigger the third person is, the more insecure the person, the more secure this third person makes us feel... we all have that person in us whether we will admit it or not... this person is so strange in some people that when she is revealed the people around us are totally shocked... and say they do not know us... which is true... but the hurt and pain we all experience is stored there in that third person... writers access this person in order to write... the old maid accesses the third person in order to deal with the loneliness... the hurt husband that has been turned away uses this person to sooth the hurt by looking at porn... the mother who is overwhelmed by her children finally seeks love from another... just to feel alive again... children that are over sensitive retreat into the arms of this third person to stay alive... and out of the way of an abusive father who has retreated into the third person because of unfulfilled dreams... we all are cheaters in some ways... and the worst is when we retreat into this third person, we cheat ourselves... look real close... she is and he is there...

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Women cheat more than ever now. Yes, men cheat too. But women and men cheat for different reasons. No matter what either sex should not live in fear of what their partner may do. It doesn't matter the sex, a disrespectful person with a lack of values is going to cheat no matter if they are male of female.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Something else that bothers me is how some women think all men cheat. I read on the internet once there was this article called All Men Cheat Women Need To Accept That one of the commentors said and I quote (Actually this is true all men DO CHEAT and women dont have to deal with it try the single life relationships are overated and lets face it marriage is legal female slavery just a way to keep women in the box that men have put them in if a guy says he's not cheating he's lying and even if your willing to believe that lie he's probably abusing you in some other way that you wont admit to as an enslaved woman). Women cheat to in case this woman did not know izettl what would you say.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Thank you very much Jeanine I really do appreciate that. You are right I have had some pretty bad experiences with feminists and women who hate men so I dont have a very high opinon of feminists. I do think that feminists have done some very beneficial things for women but these days it seems like feminism is all about hatred for men I really wish it were not like that but that is the way it looks (for me anyway). Well anyway you can keep calling me Sam you dont have to call me by my screen name and I have a hubpage account if you would like to stop by. :)

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      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Oh Sam... I believe you... it's just some of it sounds pretty far out for me... my life is simple... I love and am loved and from that love came my children... my love is the best and I am so blessed to be in this marriage... I have a hard time relating... and I don't think you are a homophob dear... you sound like a nice young man, that has been beaten up by some over zealous Dykes...lol... sorry I just had to say it... I never do so I wanted to say it...giggle.. giggle... don't listen to those know it alls... they just are trying to be men and don't know how I think sometimes... keep looking for that right one and you'll find her... she's looking for you to... so keep your chin up and your eyes wide open...

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      Sam 4 years ago

      @ jeanine

      I am not quite sure what you mean but to answer your question NO I am not pulling your legs I have nothing to fess up. That was a serious question I got that from a feminist theory I had read about called Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence (and on a side note I am not homophobic in case that is what you are thinking). Believe me I have heard feminists say things you would never believe half of which I myself find hard to believe at times.

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      jeanine 4 years ago

      can we all say Bitch.... women are attracted to men... duh... let the crazies be crazy but "the dykes are us" thing doesn't work for most women out here...lol... that is the weirdest question I have ever heard... I would like to see where you got that from... or is that just something you made up... Come on Sam... fess up... you are just pulling our legs right...

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ that sounds so off base. I've never heard that and those must be extreme feminists. I wouldn't listen to any extreme group of people- extremists are way out there...not in reality.

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      Sam 4 years ago

      This may seem like an odd question I am not sure but do you think mens attraction to women is just a natural attraction or a right because some feminists say that mens attraction to women is a right that needs to be stripped from them and women need to separate themselves from them at least until feminism is no longer needed.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ I think men are sincere if the woman is someone he truly wants. If he is just using a woman or not completely interested then he does not care how he treats her or how he uses her. I think women do some of this too. Young men and women are usually guilty of this because they are not ready to settle down, but seek companionship. Instead of being honest, many aren't and use each other.

      On being in control...I can't explain that one as well. It took a while in my husband and my relationship- but mostly like I've said before there are certain domains a woman wants to control and a man wants to control. Most women, independent or not, like to decorate or control household things around her. I think mostly a man wants to be viewed as GREAT in his woman's eyes. As long as he is the greatest thing since sliced bread to his woman, he feels validated. You can probably compare this to a woman finding out he rbutt looks to big in her favorite pair of pants.

      I once heard a quote and I think it's true- "Most of men's problems with women stem from either the man's mom loved him too much or too little". If it's too much ten no woman will ever meet his needs and if too little then he will never get enough love from any woman.

      The type of control a man wants is more ego- driven. I think some of it is innocent enough, if its not using abuse to get control. Men need positive feedback to know he's on course. It also depends on what he wants approval from- some men want it from their boss, their parents, their wife, their kids.

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      jeanine 4 years ago

      Men do need a lot, but so do women... most men are sincere to a point I think... control is very important, but I think it's because if they do get out of control... they really are out of control and are not very responsible for their actions... it's hard for guys to go from listening to their moms on everything to finally discounting everything she has told them... they never get over it really... if they are successful, then it's great because they can say, well I was right... if they are not successful in life I mean, with men , men or in business... then the ego goes crazy... it becomes the womans fault... you see this guy all the time... he's constantly blaming a woman... when he's really blaming his mom for letting him down... it plays big in the moms life also... she feels she could have done a better job...

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      Sam 4 years ago

      Just curious but is there a way to tell if a man is really being genuine about how he feels (you know like his feelings, himself, a woman he loves, etc) and men who play mind games with women. I recently read an article about how men who play mind games need to feel superior.

      Here is a quote from it.

      Men need to feel superior. I think superiority is overrated but to most men with huge egos, there is a pressing need to feel superior so they resort to playing mind games. Men by nature like to feel in control and when they feel that control being stripped away, they actively engage every single tactic they know to get that control back and that means playing mind games.

      What do you think.

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      Sam 4 years ago

      I've battled many a feminist even here on hubpages. They dont like me

      Well dont worry feminists just cant handle criticism anyone or anything that does not conform to there stupid ideology they attack even if it may be a valid criticism and they wonder why people call them man haters well they cant deny what they are (many not all).

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      Sam 4 years ago

      Hi izettl

      Thank you for the compliment that I sound like a mature person. It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant man hating women are they talk about how men do this or say that or the way they look, sound, walk, eat, smell, or live (there is nothing wrong with the way men do any of those things and not all men live the way these women think they do) regardless of the fact that women do the same things. I have heard a woman say things like men are a waste or excuse for humanity and say if they (men) would all dissapear I would not shed a single tear and that the world would be a better place if men did not exist. I dont know if you have ever read or heard of it but in Valerie Salonas SCUM Manifesto it says that men are a biological mistake and that the nerves are connected to the penis. And you what makes it pathetic there are women out there who actually believe that crap first of all men are not a biological mistake nature does not make mistakes and certainly not mistakes of that magnitudes and second it is not possibl for all the nerves to be connected to the penis if it were then every man on earth would be dead at the moment of birth besides autopsy's prove that, that is not true. Sure men have done terrible things but they have also done great things and besides those were only individual men not all men rape, batter, harm nature, or kill. Well anyway I need to stop now before I get to upset. Thank You

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ while I feel bad for women who have been abused, I also know that my husband's mom hates men for that reason, however, I believe she has chosen to be with and often times stay with really bad men. It's as simple as saying they hate men, but they'ver never met all men. Many of those men-hating women have put themselves in scenarios with only bad men. Often times that comes from a bad childhood with a male role model in their life. My husband's mom has three boys and the only one she likes is a doormat- he is 45 and lives with her and she walks all over him. He never grew up. The other son, has been married 6 times and is a womanizer- sickningly, she kind of brags how he can get so many women- it's weird. So my husband is the odd ball- never knew his dad because she had an affair with a married man and conceived my husband- she calls him every name in the book and we just don;t talk to her anymore. And that's that story, but yes I know where you're coming from and what you're dealing with.

      I WISH our society could recognize that men and women are very good at certain things and accept both sexes as they are...not women competing to be like men. Feminists have done a great disservice to women- they also sold us a lie about how we can have it all. Not true- there aren't many family friendly work places so women often fail at work or motherhood. sadly.

      You sound very mature Sam, especially when you state about how you dont fear all women so at least you've learned to judge based on the person.

      The quote does not sound like consentual sex- and I believe pornography can be agreat disservice to men because it is all about the men in pornography when sex is best when its good for both partners. Like I said before though, both men and women are different of course and men tend to be a little more physical and nothing wrong with this if its used in the right way. I think the fact that women try to be more domnieering may lead to more men turning to pornography where theyre in a world where women are more submissive.

      I've battled many a feminist even here on hubpages. They dont like me- I'm strong minded but not a feminist. very independent but i know enough that men offer a lot to women and society as men...for their strengths. And so do women, however, its a little screwed up out there right now. You got women wanting to be like men (in some ways) yet hating men. Strange.

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      Sam 4 years ago

      There is something else that concerns me now it is only a minority view but there are some feminists who say that in a patriarchal society heterosexual sex can not be cinsensual because there choice is being forged by the expectations of society and also there is a rather nasty quote I found.

      Here

      Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to fuck/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced.'

      Judith Levine, (explicating comment profiling prevailing misandry.)

      Well thankfully Judith Levine never really said this. I looked up her official page and ther is nothing on there that even hints at that. I think some man made that quote up men in the past have sometimes done that but I dont know how many though.

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      Sam 4 years ago

      @izettl

      I would also like to say that I am not always afraid of women there are women in my life that I have great love and respect for it is man hating women I have no respect for they dont deserve respect they have the choice to to judge men as individuals or be a bigot and hate all men but in the end it does not matter if they hate men women who hate men are just more worthless bigots like nazi's the KKK and the Nation of Islam (it is a black supremacy group) and when they die no one is going to care because all that they left in the world was more hatred and ignorance.

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      Sam 4 years ago

      Thank you izettl. I just dont understand why women who hate men cant feel that they must hate all or even most. I understand that some of those women may have been abused but that is no reason to take it out on all men. And something else that bothers me is how can women like your husbands mother hate men when she has a son how can those particular women do that. I swear women who hate men need to grow up and start judgeing people as individuals and that includes men for an adult your husbands mother does not sound very mature (no offense to your husband).

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ I consider myself a strong educated woman and I would never want to be associated with feminists because many do hate men. I am sorry you are a young male in this society, but on the positive side there is starting to be a balance of roles- who knows how this will turn out, but I think its good that men can do some caregiving for the children and/or work outside the home.

      At least from your mom you have the warning signs of what type of women to avoid. My husband has a mom that hates men but we have balanced our roles out in our marriage- he goes to work, I take care of kids but I also work from home part-time and he takes care of the kids a lot as well. It is possible to find balance with a woman so don't avoid or be afraid of them all.

      Thanks for commenting

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      Sam 4 years ago

      Hi izettl

      I am a 20 year old male and I am ashmed to admit this at times I even hate myself for this so please dont hate me for this but there are times when I am kind of afraid of women. I have reasons for feeling that way sometimes my mother is a drug addict and told all kinds of lies about my father she even use to abuse him emotionally, verbally, and mentally she even use to hit me sometimes when I was a lot younger and summer 2011 she choked my youngest brother. Also because of feminism now dont misunderstand me I do believe in equality and I do believe thar feminism use to be legitimate but now I think it is all about misandry. I have heard feminists say very hatefull things about men some even calling for the extermination of men or greatly reducing men. I have found hate sites and supposedly there might be female superiority groups. I am so angry and heartbroken after all that has happened that I get so scared and self hatefull sometimes and this is not some made up sob story I am giving you I swear to you what I am saying is true. :'(

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Jeanine~ I've got a few words for you...answering your question about two creatives: come to Oregon. And of course you know what it's like from creative parents. But Oregon is full of them...and they are worrisome.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Elefanza~ I think today's youth have online overload- they literally don't need to carry on a face-to-face conversation. When you think about the combo of video games, texting, smart phones, etc, your husband may not have had all that growing up and probably had a healthy balance of in person contact with the gaming hobby. I'ts healthy for guys to have a hobby and gaming is one of them.

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      jeanine 5 years ago

      I agree, boys need a good model to learn to live their lives... I often wonder how kids turn out living with both parents being creatives... I worry about that sometimes... loving me I'm sure has been stressful on my love... as well as my children... all of them turned out to be wonderful human beings...

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      Elefanza 5 years ago from Somewhere in My Brain

      Okay, I see your point. I just hear so much negativity associated with gaming in general that I've grown more sensitive to it. Yes, my husband grew up gaming and he is able to carry on a conversation with other people. But I definitely know guys who game to the point that that's all they are able to do. Point taken!

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      ahorseback~ thanks for the comment. You are right. Our society is treading on unknown territtory and who knows how it will turn out- we will notice the effects likely 20 years from now. Mostly boys need good men as role models in their lives and many don't have that.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Elefanza~ In psychology we were taught that many things are OK, healthy indulgences, stress relievers, until they interfere with ones life in a negative way. Let's say your husband was missing days at work ( or not gettting a job) because he'd rather play video games- now that would be a problem because it would be interferring with his daily life and relationships.

      I've been there. When I was first married, my husband lost his job- I just got a new great one out of school so he began to feel sorry for himself (my guess) after months of looking for one. Suddenly I was coming home to my man in pajamas having barely moved from his gaming seat. That's not cool. I think the main point is they can be addictive, in a bad way.

      Not sure if your man played them a lot growing up, but for boys/young men, it is crucial they learn social skills at certain ages. I know people who game socially but can't carry on a conversation in real life- that would concern me. I think with the obesity epidemic, people are concerned about whether youth are getting exercise and if they're gaming, they're not. Like with anything else, too much of a good thing...is too much

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Jeanine~ I agree. But I am not the wonder woman I used to be due to my arthritis. I think we make each other stronger...together. And we are mature enough to recognize that. Only the people who can say to themselves I am better without my partner are the ones that have a chance at falling apart. Alphas...like my uncle, stay alphas throughout a marriage- nothing "holds them back" (for a lack of better words). But like my aunt would say, he always had to be involved in something- leading a team, working his own business, risky sports, etc. I think my husband was an alpha in disguise as many bad boys are. that outer shell is a facade- they've been hurt. Sometimes you can find a diamond in the rough.

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      ahorseback 5 years ago

      "Get off your ass " I think That was the exact thought I was thinking at reading the title ! Funny ! Our system today is dumbing down our children to make our boys more sensitive , and our girls are given the impression they are equals . Each of which is great .......if we follow through with this in our society ! The problem is , we are not folllowing through to adulthood . I did hit all the buttons , awesome job !

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      jeanine 5 years ago

      I do believe women become handlers of the male population... as they have been for years... except this time... the money is there for the girls so the rules change... and a little more than just slightly... if there are less needs from men... men supply less needs... does that make sense... I fear we have crossed the imaginary line that there is no returning to how things were... the social-economics of the whole thing is a little scary... parenting has already changed... many dads have and are learning the joys and the mundane days that women have had to cope with for thousands of years... but also it's hard on the woman... to hear her children run and ask daddy... or cling to him instead of her... I fear these are fleeting thoughts though and soon younger women will just embrace that her husband is not as smart as she is and then everything changes... it's already in all of our commercials and on TV shows here in America... soon the world... and then everything changes... I'm not for either way really... I think both lose and the biggest losers will be our children... not because men aren't great care givers... it's just they are behind in that also...lol... that's terrible to say... but it's true...

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      Elefanza 5 years ago from Somewhere in My Brain

      So I'm married to a gamer. And I don't think that video games are all bad. It's new and it's similar to how books were first perceived. When genre fiction began to get more popular, the initial sentiment of the day was that books were bad and that they made people less social. Now, reading books is more accepted. I think the situation is similar with games. Honestly, I think games are a great tool for social interaction. My husband is always playing games with a variety of people and he has always had a group of friends to share his interest with. Also, have you seen some of the plots for games? Much better than some of the books we're making them read in high school! Now, I don't disagree with you that there is a danger in just having video games as your entire life without working towards anything else. But there is something fun about social gaming.

      As for college, it does seem like guys don't do as well as woman and being married to someone who didn't care as much about college as I did and seeing videos looking at high schools that are succeeding, I think that instead of boys failing at college, it is college that is failing boys and girls. Frankly, unless your studying to be a doctor, engineer, or educator, there's no immediate practical value towards college education. It's mostly just being told how to think and be obedient to the structure -- something that girls do better than boys (I'm thinking of the studies even from a young age where girls are the "obedient ones" and boys the "troublemaker") Also, and I know you covered this point in another hub, my frustration is: if college is basically preparing youth for jobs at McDonalds because the economy is so bad, why aren't more girls questioning the system than boys? Why aren't girls stepping out of the structure and seeking to change it instead of just adhering to something that is generating more and more debt and less and less pay off?

      Anyway, I don't know what the answer is. But I am wondering if it will become more common in the future for women to be the breadwinners and what that will mean in terms of parenting. Thoughts?

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      jeanine 5 years ago

      I know you needed "He man" and you got him.. I'm just saying after he has lived happily ever after with you for years past His silver anniversary and that's what I said, his anniversary...lol... if he survives that beautiful tall woman he married... he will be definitely more beta.. I think... simply because all the stuff girls need in their lives... toward the maturity of the relationship, he may still have the hard outer shell in tact but that's all it will be more than likely...lol... you caught him in seven years think about what 8 years from now looks like... women or more educated now so...as he ages he changes in your sight as well as his own... because women are more educated that their male counter parts... our roads split here and never return to where they were... unfortunate for "He man" and very different for "Wonder Woman"... not necessarily better for her but different... and as she sees the writing on the wall... she accepts that is will be better, just as soon as she makes it that way...lol... the saddest part of the future to me is our uneducated sons to come... as long as we were at war, there was a reason to train these boys on video games, but as soon as women make peace in the next fifty years, the little boys are in for a rude awakening... as mothers there must be more emphasis on education... The demise of guys is directly proportional to our guys educations... study hard boys... that beautiful body will fade... think... you need to be smart to get a good woman these days...lol... I laugh but I see it unfolding...

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      "the doll with the almighty dollar". How clever! How true! Some very clever thoughts indeed. The beta male finally wins. It seems so. Although I had to have a tough kind of guy who wouldn't take my crap because I knew I was a strong woman. And now, after 7 yrs marriage, we are about equal. lol.

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      Jeanine 5 years ago

      It's a mess... women may be acting this way because of our new found freedom. "The power" the doll with the almighty dollar... and it can be intoxicating to say the least... we want to lay down with more Alpha males because we can, yet because we don't need their money any more, the power has changed hands... we still on all the "stuff" in the world but now, we don't have to give it up if we don't want to...we are however sending heavy signals that this is not how we want the little man of the house to act, and now that we have our own finance we make the call of who we will marry... with this new found power women seem to be looking at men as a mate that will compliment her life for the first time in history. She is sending very strong signals that it is she that is to be looked up to and adored... not just for her beauty but for her sense of providing for her family...he is and better be beta if he knows whats good for him... I think is the line... and believe it or not, most men fall right in line... where before the fall of man from the halls of great finance... all men as they aged and lived with a powerful woman eventually become beta... now because she is holding the purse strings, men are converting to beta earlier and earlier in their lives... and some seem to be made for it... so the beta male finally emerges as the tortoise that wins the race with women... just as in the Godfather... one of the main characters says... "no I always take a prostitute for oral... never with my wife... that's the mouth that kisses my children goodnight" women seem to be going outside the marriage to satisfy their lust and keep their beta men at home for a safe and sure ride into the power grid that has become female led relationships all across the nation.... little boys seeing their dads at home, cooking cleaning or doing whatever mommy wants, have started to see it from another perspective... watch how often the children run to daddy now instead of crying mommy... we often joke "who's your daddy" very soon... make be even as soon as the next generation... those words take on a different meaning... we want do anything as foolish as try and change the meaning... we'll just begin to change the man... remember... our moms... all change you will never change him dear... well she may have been wrong... soon and very soon... we may be hearing... who 's you momma"... in the near future it may go a little like this, at the supper table in front of his and Her small children...lol.."dear you are so sweet for cleaning everything up and taking care of the children this year while mom had to work all day and everyday at the office... I know you slaved over this meal and you are such a sweet man for doing all you do... how bout I plan for us to get away for the weekend... would you like that dear... dear... oh you poor thing... so tired, you feel asleep" oh my what is this nonsense he has been reading... "She came to Him suddenly"... these romantic novels he reads are ruining his mind... oh well... I guess he needs some relief from the kids... I think I'll cheer him up and buy him a new Vacuum cleaner... he'll love that... maybe I'll spring for new flooring, but I and definitely going to wait until he asked for it... the poor dear.... the kids have just worn him out...

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Ravenbiker~ Glad you stopped by. Interesting in society we don't see the effects of cultural changes like this for quite some time and it ma even be another generation until we see the magnitude of all this on men...and on women as well. Yes, write the book! More men need to talk about this.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Thanks for stopping by Richawriter. I've been ridiculed by some because I've written a couple of hubs basically about the demise of women too: one of them is 'How Women Forgot to be Women'. Not a popular topic among "western girls". But it shows you I 100% agree with you on that- yes I've seen my working mom friends get into heavily drinking now and my single friends brag about one night stnads. I'm not for it and I think it seems like women are competing with men.

      i know the feeling because I became like that for a while...just having to succeed and have a career. Slippery slope and I don't know how, other than the western mentality, I became like that. Women are no longer measured as women, they are measured by men's standards. Wrote another hub about the flaws in feminism. Its not a true victory for women unless we are accepted as women and not as men.

      That was a long answer just to say yes I agree with you. I have never been overseas, but I can imagine the western women look very masculine compared to other countrys' women.

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      RavenBiker 5 years ago from Pittsburgh, PA.

      Great hub but in a way you beat me to the "punch!"

      This is a subject that I am utterly facinated with since college ended for me not even six months ago. My creative writing senior project was about this subject. A recieved a final and project letter grade as much as a half grade point lower: C+. A young lady who I graduated with and was in the same program with me immediately said, "It figures! The professor is a woman!" The positive was a comment the professor had given me. She said, "Write the book."

      Also, thanks for the book title. I'll check on it soon.

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      Richard J ONeill 5 years ago from Bangkok, Thailand

      Excellent topic and well written, Izettl!

      It is true that 'guys are in demise' and I have seen it coming for many years. In fact, I never knew my real father, the 2 step-dads that followed were completely useless and abusive, which means my 5 brothers and I were brought up by my mother. What kind of effect is that going to have? In my case, I grew up thinking men were all scum and nothing but a bunch of lusty, foul-mouthed, aggressive a-holes.

      Now that I'm older, I obviously think differently but I agree with the premise of this article, something has to be done to stop this decline.

      There is another social factor that has been weighing heavily on my mind for some time now though and that is the decline of women, at least in the west.

      My knowledge is based mostly on my experiences in England and Thailand. English girls today are very very masculine and have taken to acting just like men, even the bad habits, e.g. drinking heavily, smoking heavily, using foul language freely, sleeping around etc etc. I fear for the future if both men and women are behaving in this way!!!

      Thailand, in comparison is completely different obviously due to its deeply embedded cultural roots. Women are still very feminine and lady-like, while at the same time occupying a much more important role in society as women do in the west. Women are equal here too, but there is a huge difference in behavior.

      What do you think of this Izettl?

      Great article, well written and awesome! Up up uppppp!

      Peace. :)

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      yes the cycle is perpetuated. very sad. many people abuse and go on to do things done to them. This will be a big problem...without dads and men's role in society. very immature of women to keep kids away from dad. People underestimate their role.

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      DoItForHer 5 years ago

      What's more sad is Ariel and kids like her are perpetuating this when they become adults, by their own choosing, and to their own emotional demise. I don't understand how an adult child would do this to themselves.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Doitforher~ sad story. My husband's is not too different. He had a daughte rwith his first wife and she cheated on him shortly after. He left after she moved the other guy in. He tried for years to see his daughter and did once when she was 4 and once at 6 then 9-10 her mom got in trouble and we took his daughter only to fight the court system and spend all our money and courts give her to her mom- moms can do no wrong. Oh but they can and society has a bad view of this. In the mean time my husband's family has spent years on and off not speaking to him over all this with his daughter. They do not understand once you run out of money you can't fight the system anymore. They did not put any money in and his own family calls him a dead beat dad.

      We have so many resources for mothers to get help as mothers but not many fighting for men or on their side. I know exactly what you mean about the misrepresentation for men. I am so sad you've had to go through all that.

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      DoItForHer 5 years ago

      The only time I was allowed to be a parent was when Mom said I could be. When Mom said, "No," then I wasn't allowed. No amount a litigation could shake that.

      Today my 18-year-old daughter, Ariel, does not even acknowledge my existence. She is not alone in this. Her and many, many children like her ostracize their fathers because society's overly harsh views of the male parent.

      Even when I was allowed to be her dad, I had to frequently deal with people who thought I was her uncle. Yes, many people are inclined to think that male, adult caregivers are more likely to be uncles than fathers. How many mothers have been accused of being aunts when shopping with their children? Not too many I bet.

      Society needs to change its views.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      That sums it up for me! You said it well- be involved and turn off some of the electronics. yes, out of touch is probably a big chuck of the problem. i know parents that get irritated when their kids wants them to play because they thought they bought them enough toys and stuff to keep them busy- Oh yes I hear it all the time. Sad.

      Thanks for stopping by.

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      ahorseback 5 years ago

      We live in a different world today [understatement ] when my wife and I met eleven years ago , she thought todays problems were directly related to womans lib- and I ? I thought them more related to out of touch .......and /or ,out of the home ,... Fathers . My advice , turn off the TV in your house , limit internet and electronica in the childs life , and be involved in everything they do !........everything! Awesome hub!........:-} And by the way , I have always thought tall women ....awesome !

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I think you are right and let me add that your boys have done quite well and not just in terms of money... and fame. But that too!

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      Jeanine 5 years ago

      I have three boys and the school system said early on they were slow learners and were not college material... we tell them out and home school... letting them choose what they thought and then us advising them of what each career entailed... they now run a multi million dollar company that they created... they all still work together although they all live in different cities now with their wives... early thirties... so I think you are right Izettl... of course mind could be just luck but I like to think, they were helped by what we did to help...

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Michael~ I don't buy into the current educational system that says kids need to be good at everything- nearly impossible. It's all about rote memorization, not actual learning so unless you give me a better alternative or suggestions, who knows what is right or wrong for each person.

      As far as focusing on areas. Neighbor boy has been labeled as having a learning disability by schools, but is extremely smart in science so mom is homeschooling him with a focus on science. It seems to me that even though he may find another interest someday, he could manipulate it as having to do with science- that's a broad subject. Surely even if he becomes interested in rockets or cooking, there's a little of science in both of those. Even in your example, I hear chefs all the time say cooking involves science and chemistry. I also know the scientific method is great for problem solving kills and what area would that not be helpful with?

      I got my degree in psychology knowing it was something I'm good at and could find anything that had to do with it no matter how my interests change over time.

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      Michael 5 years ago

      You are going to be hard-pressed identifying their 'interests' early on. .. It would be a shame to focus primarily on one area (biology, chemistry or history say).. only to have your child, seven years later, decide they would rather go become a chef. Yes, what he learned before will still be intrinsically valuable to them, but I'm sure we can all agree in a situation like this, it doesn't provide the most efficient learning.

      So unless you have some record, historical evidence, or study I can read about regarding the matter, I don't buy the 'focus on the areas they are interested in'....

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      HTTAG~ Little kids pay close attention to what mom and dad do. I am polite and good with people even if its to the cashier at a grocery store. I like to think I am the person who can talk to anyone. Just like you though that came with time. I was painfully shy in school so school didn't help me with that- in fact I wasn't shy until I went to school. Honestly, being a waitress and bartender helped get over being shy.

      I've got my 4 yr old daughter in dance class and karate. Being social seems to come natural to her so I'm not sure if I can take much credit. To me, kids come out of shcool hardly knowing anything of real importance, ill-prepared for their future, and yet they spend so much time in school and after school doing homework. Schools expect kids to be good at everything yet in life, most successful people are really good at one or a handful of things. I thikn if I homeschooled- i would spend time doing the basics, but concentrate on an area or areas that my child was motivated by or had a natural inclination toward.

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      howtotextagirl 5 years ago from Canada

      Thanks for the clarification of the phrase. Ya it is totally true that the newer generations aren't choosing the world they will basically be raised in and the parents or parent have increasingly more options.

      I love the idea of having kids and think it's really cool that you have 2 little munchkins. In regards to home schooling I don't think it is fair to say how it would effect the child in terms of their social life. Personally I went to public school and was probably about the most antisocial and socially oblivious person you would ever know until I'd say about 21 years old. Being around people doesn't mean you are being social and it doesn't mean you will learn social skills. In my opinion you are both qualified and aware of social dynamics with an interest in helping your children develop the skills they need to be successful in life.

      While I am not a parent or particularly educated on how to raise children I can't say whether or not homeschooling or public school is better than the other. Being at a public school gives you an opportunity to often learn and experience a pretty diverse range of experiences. That doesn't mean they will necessarily be positive or negative in the end. Home schooling on the other hand in my opinion has a potential of limiting experience but it also has a huge potential too. You may allow your child be taught in a way that may be better suited to them than at public school. If I were to home school I would probably also do my best to motivate my child to chose to participate in extracurricular activities that are genuinely appealing to them such as maybe learning an instrument and very likely seeing if there is a team sport or active social interest to participate in. I truly believe that being aware and dynamic

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Again, can I just say what you're doing is a great service for our youth.

      i also wonder if women will lead better someday because (just a thought, not stereotyping) but could it be that women understand men better than men understand women. putting a woman leader at an advantage perhaps understanding genders better in general. And yet I've found working for men better than working under a woman.

      And on your thought about social skills and gender not being taught- huge deal! i think many things in life that are more necessary than Algebra are not being taught in schools- partly why I am considering home school. In my day, finances and budgeting weren't taught and look where we're at.