I kissed a nice lady on the cheek, I think my ears turned red. I felt all silly like a boy. I told my wife and she said she knew. And that the church ladies think I am funny. She pinched me on my non-existent butt and giggled. Then she yelled from the kitchen. RICK you do not love anyone but me.
Well of course I love my parents and my children. But my wife was right I just love one woman.
Now here is the twist. I do not know who you love. I care that you love. I am a preacher man. It has never occurred to me to suggest who you love.
A gay person that loves --- loves. A really good botanist loves plants. A great Veterinarian loves animals. A Preacher man loves all his people. My two sons love me.
OK OK it might make me uncomfortable if you love the neighbors dog and want to get married. Even if the dog was awesome.
But if you love,,,, I mean love. Then you and I stand on the same shore and will build our house on love. I am a learned man. Doctorates and a hand full of other degrees. I am somehow respected by folk. But I just can't remember what I learned. Maybe all that crap just taught me to love. Please do not mock me for loving my little wife or sons. We may look stupid or wrong but we love each other.
If you have a problem you can always call 911 Ericdierker and I promise I will love you.
All that learnin', all that "preachin'", huh, and you still don't read your Bible and you refuse to acknowledge that God is holy and sovreign.
Nobody can accuse you of being a "Biblist", that's for sure.
I'm not trying to cut you down for loving anyone or everyone! That's what a Christian does. But the thing is--------a Christian, especially a preacher, knows that Love is about more than just accepting anything and everything that someone decides to do.
Maybe you don't claim to be a Christian......I dunno! It's just that the title of preacher usually means a Bible-believing, born-again, God-fearin' leader who takes the Word seriously instead of sounding like a 60's free-love flower child with their head in the sand and rebellion in their words.
I think we've been around this merry go round many times before. Leviticus is law for ancient Hebrew priests, not 21st century gentiles. Sodom's sin was not homosexuality but selfishness, pride, and not looking after strangers. Paul was addressing the issue of pagan cult prostitutes not homosexuality per se. Jesus healed the gay lover servant of the centurion, and never spoke of homosexuality, although he did about marriage and divorce. Time for you to take the word seriously and stop reading it as your church tells you to read it; you are not a Jehovah's Witness, you are allowed to have a free mind.
So many have decided that their work as Christians is to make rules and laws. It is as though they can read words but totally miss the story. Maybe it is like headliners and movie sound bites and explosions and a politician just has oneliners.
Oh well. at least they are trying and I love em.
Brenda Show me one place where the Bible tells you to make a judgment on other people who love because of orientation of what they love other than law and false idles.
Perhaps Paul judged and maybe Peter but I do not see anywhere where they told us to do that judging. The bible may say this is bad and this is good. But no where does it say we should decide.
So.....you're basically saying that the original disciples could make righteous judgements but other Christians couldn't or can't? In other words, the Bible is true for only the leadership?
Surely you jest. Or are confused.
Brenda, I have a bible that is four inches thick. It is a later edition Gutenberg. In German. I got a 3 thousand page one in Latin Vulgate. My Bible that I read the Gospel from in Church is 1500 pages of scripture. Now you are going to come along and tell me definitively what they say?? Wow you are some kind of scholar and Apostle and Disciple and Rabbi.
If we take sentences out of the bible they are like 1 millionth of what the Bible says. Great!!! That means nothing. The Bible must be taken as a whole and not sliced and diced apart for a goal. The Bible as a whole teaches love. Judgments based on one liners is fool hardy at best. There is no leadership for Christians only servants and some are tasked with flocks.
And I do not personally know anyone who has been crucified like most original Apostles were. And they did not have a Bible so they did not quote New Testament Scripture. They only taught Love.
John the Baptist taught the warning of repentance just like Jesus did.
Now, that is a part of Love.
If you're honest with yourself, you'll know that, and vice versa----Love is a part of warning people against the pitfalls of sin, both temporary and eternal.
And the other Apostles taught the same thing, as did Jude and other Biblical writers.
Christians cannot feasibly omit the conviction of the Holy Spirit and just bury their heads in the sands of blind ill-defined "love". The Love of God isn't just a benign bit of fluff. It is serious, with serious implications and eternal results. AWESOME results!!
As far as the Gutenberg Bible and all that, that's very interesting of course; I've often wanted to own one and it would be great to be able to read it.
However, I have no reason (nor do you, that I can think of) to think it's any different in context nor overall content than the Bible I read from.
Brenda those are great words. Powerful and wrought with danger and wrath. Love is serious business.
Be a parent. Love is not all uuuchi gooochi. It is damned hard work. Time and caring and listening and doing for another. I would rather be single, childless and preach no more. It is just too much sometimes to love with what little hearts we are given.
John was one bad ass dude. I heard he did flips when Mama Mary was with baby Jesus in her womb and visited John's mother her cousin. How cool to the rule is that. They loved each other before they were born.
Perhaps I also loved Jesus before I was born for I know not a time when I did not love Him.
Drop the warning crap. If it is fear that drives your love for Jesus. Go back to bed. We Love Jesus and we celebrate but there is not a damned soul or book that makes us love Him out of fear. I warn you!!!! For you have fear.
The Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Now, that means fear as in being aware that He is sovreign and all-powerful. So, yes, it's wise to fear God! However, we also know that He is Love, as the Bible also says.
Thanks for the warning, but I didn't need it, because it was twisted. Like I said, we cannot dismiss one of His attributes in favor of another, for He has both.
I dunno what kind of church you preach in, but it doesn't sound like a Christian one at all.
There's also a verse I'm recalling right now that also says in what manner we should fear Him. Surely you know that verse. Unless....you don't even read the Bible because of your idea that it's not complete.
Sorry Brenda -- There are over 1500 pages in most modern bibles. I have a ton to teach. I probably miss some. I mean like I have a twenty year old I have been preaching to for 14 years. That would be about 500 lessons on 1500 pages.
I do not think I have gotten to fear. Maybe next year and the year after maybe Helll fire and Brimstone and maybe next how to condemn thy neighbor.
I am afraid that your church started out with fear and hell and maybe next year will get to love.
Do you see my point? There is so much to learn. Why do you want to skip ahead to rules and regulations and how you have to act? Leave that for year twenty and combine it with year 14 and weave it into year 7.and I still do not see how it fits in the Easter, Summer, Thanksgiving and Christmas cycles not to mention lent and catechism and what the heck else.
Good for you focus on telling your children how to act instead of acting like it. Spend time on telling them what not to be, rather than on what they should be. Your Christian Church must be so better than mine.
I think I get it now.
Your teachings are a cross between John Lennon's and Joel Osteen's, motivational speaking wrapped up in 60's free love hippie movement and ferreted into a folder into the same filing cabinet as "The Gospel".
Ain't that about the most honest way to sum it up?
As far as "my Church"...........I don't have a particular "Church". I go to a Church, yes, where the Bible is taught, where Christianity is taught. Simple Christianity. The focus is on salvation above all. That's what a Christian does, so that's what a Christian Church should do
I don't get too wrapped up in scrutinizing the catechisms and such, since I'm not Catholic. And I don't get too involved in any book even if written by a Protestant or any other Christian writer. The Bible is my only Book I believe is divinely inspired and Holy as in the history of the one and only Holy God, creator of the universe and mankind, Savior of all who will believe in and follow Him.
But if you must try to figure out my doctrinal leanings, I was raised Separate Baptist and still find that that doctrine is the one that most adheres to the Bible's intent and teachings as far as religion and any Christian denomination. I've been in enough different Churches to know that there are many that are in great error on several things, and several of them that are in great error on many things. And I have concluded by watching the results of those doctrines that it's better to remain just what I am-----a simple Christian who's highly highly Blessed to have been offered salvation upon repentance to my Lord. It is an awesome thing to be one of many (all of mankind!) who are able to have eternal life someday with the God who set humankind in motion even. The same thing that's offered to anyone who will recognize their sinful nature and repent before their Maker.
Very cool Brenda. Try this on for size: Man is sinful by nature. Each man must repent constantly, meaning to confess and to change his direction. Sexual immorality is not to be tolerated by the community. Abuse of one's body is wrongful. Confess to Christ your wrongful activity and pray for forgiveness and strength to do better. Fear your Lord for there is great wrath for those who do not repent, know Christ and beg forgiveness.
So if I say it that way ----- it sounds right to you??? But if I say: Fill your heart so full with love that there is not room for evil within it. When you find it empty of love or even a little less than full, pray God to fill it back up so again there is not room for evil or wrong.
Then you think I am gay and do not follow the Bible and us people just are not Christian as good as you?? Because we look to the positive and not the negative. Please tell me why your wording is better than mine.
Because my wording is Biblical.
Are you questioning the words of God and the disciples when they said repent? You act like it's a dirty word! Yet it is the basis for salvation.
Heavens no I don't think I'm any better than anyone at all! It is simply the nature of mankind to need repentance. And even though (as I've said before), yes LOVE is the key, the fact is that mankind will always need to be sorrowful for the wrongs they do until they repent, and sometimes even after because of the continuing results of those sins.
I think I see your point in all this. So full of Love, indeed! That's great! But the first thing we must do is Love the Lord! He even commands us to. And you cannot really Love Him if you don't worship Him for all the things that He is---------Love, Spirit, Jealous, Omnipotent, Holy, wrathful, stern, merciful, Judge! etc. Yep He is the Judge. If a person was really capable of filling their hearts with so much Love that there was no room for evil, then that would be great. But indeed none of us are capable of that. We're human, subject to falling. We can have all the "love" we desire for our fellow man, but if it isn't Godly Love then it's not of much use in the long run earthly-wise and definitely of no use in the eternal life. God is Love. He has rules. We can pray for Love for our fellow man if we don't have it naturally. But if it's not the kind of Love that God requires, then it's not a Christian principle at all.
I keep trying to figure this out-------if you're so determined to avoid going by what the Bible says in your teachings, then why do you even attempt to use one at all when you stand on a pulpit? (I assume you preach from a podium?).......
Non-Biblical teachings can only ride the coattails of Christianity for so long before it becomes known for what it is-------non-Christian teachings.
Says the Divorced Woman Preacher. My Great Grandmother knew how to deal with such Abominations. God Forbid the Bishop ever found out about such a thing!. She was a Real Christian.
Mark - she's only required to stay silent in church, which is probably why she doesn't attend one with any regularity.
Although Paul does say that women are not to teach or instruct or have any authority over a man. That must be missing from her version/interpretation because she sure tries.
Brenda are you serious about your wording being "Biblical"? You cannot possibly be that shallow. There are over 200 Copyrighted published Bibles. A copyright means it is "substantially different" than another Bible. I have a Vietnamese translation Bible and a Good News Bible and a 200 year old Bible and one in German and one in Latin Vulgate.
Who in the heck told you some crazy notion that you speak "Biblically"? Are you talking pre counsel of Nicea or Agnostic Bible are you including the book of Wisdom and Ruth? Where in the Heck did you come up with the wild idea that you are talking Biblically??? Do you mean you wrote it in Greek or Aramaic???
You have astounded me. I am just amazed. Please forgive my breath leaving me for a few moments.
I never read or preach from behind anything. I gather with my people. I am not a leader. I am a servant. I have never used a microphone of any sort but in a room or on the grass with 200 they somehow can always hear what I say.
I do march into our services with a cross or my Bible before and never after me.
Our Bible is a man. His Name is On High. He is the only begotten son of Our only true Father.
Let me ask you a simple question --- do you hold the graven image of a book above my Lord??? Wow!!!
Love is love. As far as I know, there are now conditions as whom to love or what.
When a gay person loves another it's still love. I love my dog and almost had a heart attack yesterday when my fiance accidentally poisoned her. She is now recovered. But that love I have for my animal is till love.
I love ice-cream and that is still love.
Love is without condition.
Ok... everybody sounds crazy in this thread so I wasn't gonna respond, but then I thought, 'when have I ever been above sounding crazy?' So here's my take.
Eric's right in the sense that love is Jesus's main message. The Bible tells us God IS love so love has gotta be pretty important!
Brenda's right in the fact that just because you choose to love anyone and everyone doesn't mean you should throw out scripture. God taught us in His word what is right and wrong, good and evil, so we should take heed, but back to Eric... God never told us not to love ppl.
On to Dis. Head. He's right in the sense that we should not blindly believe what any one church or preacher tells us, but we should divide the word as scholars unto ourselves, lead by the Spirit Himself... who of course... is love.
So we come back to love... the greatest of these is love... love covers a multitude of sins... love will always prevail.
Mark -- Wilderness and whoever is busy thinking. What am I supposed to do with these Christians who think a book filled with words is God and that if they repeat enough they will transcend into a Heaven? This guy Celafoe and a few others are just hell bent on quoting stuff. "what is that?"
Quoting a book makes someone Holy??? We read the darn thing to get focused and so we are all on the "same page". Not because the page rules our life. King James? Latin Vulgate? Lutheran? Greek Orthodox or Roman??
I promise all you atheists there is a Bible that is authoritative. That cannot be copyrighted. There is a Bible within every single good deed and thought and word we have.
Break my heart, break my spirit, break my mind but no one can ever ever separate me from my Lord, who is Love. I will fight like a warthog on steroids, I will fail like the Great Depression. But nothing, nothing and nothing and nothing can make me stop loving.
But here are these people telling me only to love this one and that one and and and and and. ===
I am dizzy. I only can do one thing right.
Leave them be. You cannot teach the self righteous ego that already knows everything worth knowing. At best your efforts will only harm you and yours.
Once in a very great while you can lead them to the waterhole of reason by using the question as a tool. Truth, love, fact - all are useless in teaching one that refuses to think first. But very occasionally a question can stimulate them to think just a little - a little that one day could potentially grow.
It isn't much, and you will have very few successes, but once in a while even the massive ego of the Rabid Right Christian can be encouraged to think just a little and when that happens they can learn.
Indeed, you must be dizzy from carrying around confusion.
I wasn't meaning to keep this conversation going on and on; I simply wanted to know what denomination of "preacher" you claim to be. Because a Christian goes by the Holy Bible. You must be very naive or very inexperienced in the field of preaching if you don't know that by now, or else.....you just want to keep your religion secret. It's my turn to be amazed that you're shocked about the Bible being the written word of God.
So....anyway......carry on in your confusion. Tickle the ears of the unbelievers in order to gain followers, the very people to whom you should be telling to follow Jesus and learn the truths of salvation and offering them the hope of eternal life.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
I shall now wait patiently for the anti-gay crowd to try to addend the previous passage to read...
"But the greatest of these is love... unless it's gay love... then that's an abomination."
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