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Theists and Atheists views
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Reconciliation of the Universe
Mankind religious beliefs
Welcome to our hub (57); Theist and atheist views
May God guide and help me to say the right things in these religious writings?
These are my personal beliefs about mankind religious beliefs
Dear readers, in this rather long article of theists and atheists’ views, we are going to write about many things, so this article is going to be a mixed up article of several subjects, which might not seem properly connected to these theists and atheists’ views that we are talking about here, but they are, so let us begin.
Let me inform you first, that what I am going to write in this article, I am writing it in the name of our existing God that we believe in and religions. Some of our religious readers, may think that this article is a direct attack on religions, but it is not. Therefore, we would like to assure you, that it is not an attack on religions at all, in fact, we are writing this article to get our religious readers ready to accept our religious theory of, Reconciliation of the universe, which is being written to help religions survive and thrive. We believe that for religions to survive the present religious attacks from the atheists, from the extremist and other religious groups, most religions may need to be modified and agree with our logic human reasoning, which should be per what we the public believe to be right.
Anyhow as we have said, this is just another article that continues Prayers for Reconciliation religious writings and wants to prepare the readers for the religious theory of Reconciliation of the Universe, which one day we believe it might become the super religion of the future, for the simple reason that it is designated to link all existing religions together.
Now, what we are going to write in this article is going to spare no one, in fact it is going to be a double-edged argument that attacks just about everyone and everything that does not stand up to our logic human reasoning. Well, not just everybody and everything, but just a few things to prove our point of view, we need to do this in order to prove that our reasoning is right.
So, let me start from the beginning once again; first, we want to point out that there are these people that we call atheists, which would like to see religions disappear, because they believe that they do not need religions, because they do not believe in any gods or religion, so they see religions as a tool that is used only to control people and most times it does more harm than good, therefore, they would like to see religions disappear, just because they do not see the good side of religions, which is that by controlling the people with religious beliefs, it is easier than controlling them with human laws, that need sometime physical intervention.
Well, we should say that we cannot blame the atheists completely, because if we look back at history religions have committed many mistakes and atrocities, the most known of these are: The Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, The Crusades, The Inquisition, any religious wars, or any other religious killing of people in the name of God, when it is obvious that God as nothing to do with it, because people just had and used the wrong religious beliefs.
Therefore, we should say that people did not know better in those times, and we would agree with the atheists on those grounds, when such terrible things happen, then it would have been better if religions didn’t exist. But that was then, today it should have been different, because we know more; but some people have still a lot to learn, look at what is happening lately with the religious extremists who believe that they sacrifice themselves in the name of their God, they also kill in the name of their God. Here we should ask, could any of you by logic reasoning agree with them? I suppose no one would agree with them except the extremists themselves.
Looking at all these violent happenings, we would say that it is about time that somebody looks for a religious solution, see if religions could be modified and how religions could or should be modified, because they need to be modified in such a way that it would become harder to go astray from their role of peaceful coexistence that they are supposed to achieve.
Another thing about the atheists that should worry us, it is the fact that they are usually well learned people, therefore they should come up with a solution for this religious problem, but they do not, they only wish that religions don’t exist, when with their intelligence, they should have been able to give us a way out of this religious dilemma.
Anyhow, in this article, we would like to discuss about the different views between the theist and atheists, and above all try to point out some of the causes that the atheist could use to subdue the theists, so that they can prove that religion is manmade and God does not exist, that could prove that the Bible is not God inspired, because there are many mistakes in the Bible and other things as well.
To me and perhaps to most of us to live without religion is absurd, you see humanity has always needed religions since the beginning of recorded times, and therefore, religions are here to stay perhaps in a modified way, so, we should look for ways that do not clash with whatever we know now and whatever we are supposed to know in the future. We do not see that this existing religious problem is going to be solved in any other way, and this is the reason why we are trying to suggest to all people concerned to modify religions accordingly. So, we hope that all religious people and the atheists accept our suggestions, once we have set them out and published them.
Having said that we are trying to change many things, we believe that our religious readers would worry about it a lot, so, I suggest to our readers that are worried to read, for our reader’s peace of mind article, in our previous Hub, Views on Reconciliation of the Universe, and now let us talk about the theist and atheist
People need God and pray to God
Atheist and theists views
Theists and atheists
Having talked about the atheists at the beginning of this hub, now we have to say something about the theist’s views that stand fast in their beliefs even when their beliefs cannot be sustained by our logic human reasoning. They say that the Bible is the word of God, so they believe that anything that is written in the Bible is true, even when they can see that it does not add up. They are blind believer that believe in anything that their preacher preaches them, even when that preacher is telling them impossible things.
In the bible, it says many times something like this: let those who have eyes see, let those who have ears hear; now we would like to add this here, let those who have a good mind think what is right and what is wrong, so that they can see, hear and make their own minds up. Here we are talking about those people who follow religions blindly, whatever their religious leaders say, and of course also the ways religions have been setup, because it usually has double meanings, so, let us think before we speak and tell the others what to do.
Here we need to go back to talk about nowadays religious leaders mostly, we don’t need to talk about past religious leaders, as the past is passed away and we cannot do anything about it; but today religious leaders, who elect to be blind even to the most logic things, we would like to let them know that they are making a mistake. I am sure that they see that there is something wrong, but they refuse to see it, just because they want to be blind and believe in the impossible. You see, they still want us to believe that the Bible is the word of God, as if God was dictating to the writers of those times word by word what to write. But it is obvious that it is not so, the writers of those times were writing what they believed God put into their hearts, so they believed themselves that what they were writing was the word of God, they needed to believe that to write what they thought was right.
Then, they could only write according to the knowledge that they had in those times, which is obvious that they had not as much knowledge as we have today, this is the reason why today we can see where they went wrong easily with those religious articles, but they could not see their mistakes then; as we can see them now because we know a lot more today than when those religious articles were written the first time.
Now this question arise, because in the past there was a limited knowledge compared to today, it was not possible for those past religious leaders to update religious books, but today there is enough knowledge to update them, but still it seems to me that nobody is doing anything about it. Anyhow, I have grown tired of waiting for religious updates, so, I have decided to try and do something myself, therefore, first I am going to show you a few things that do not add up in the Bible, just for the simple reason that I want to show you that religions are manmade.
Religions are manmade because if they were dictated by God, or if they were really inspired from God there would have been no mistakes and we would not be able to do anything at all, because there would be no need to do anything. But, because they are not, as we are going to show you here under, then for this reason of being manmade they could be easily changed or modified if they need to be modified.
Of all religious books, the most important religious book that we know in the western world is the Bible; so, let us talk about the Bible in this article, because we would like to show you what we mean, by explaining this the long way.
But, before I start, because I am a believer and believe in the existence of God, my spiritual side is warning me to pray, even if my God is a bit different from what most people want us to believe God is like. You see, I just cannot start writing things that do not agree with my understanding of the Bible without praying God first.
Prayer to God Most High
Here I come to you praying God-Most-High master and eternal life giver of the entire universe, I am praying thee for forgiveness of my sins, reconciliation, cleansing, guidance and blessing. Father, I am praying and hoping that in your mercy you would forgive me all my life sins, and that you would make me spiritually clean of any impurities that may affect my soul; and thus, I would become worthy to pray and my prayer would be heard and accepted, and then be allowed to write these religious writing, as humanely as possible according to your will.
Father, hear my prayer! Amen.
Now that I have prayed to God Most High, I feel more confident that I can write about what I believe needs to be pointed out to the readers of the Bible, and because I have prayed God, God would very likely accept what I would write in good faith.
I believe that it is important to note that there are a few written things that are incorrect in the Bible, this does not mean that we should not accept the Bible as a good religious book any longer, it only means that some of its content is not correct, and therefore one should judge its content one by one. Now, just to show you my readers what I mean, I am going to write some example hereunder.
First, I should admit that there are several things that I could talk about, which could help if we try hard to understand all the reasons involved, why this has happened; but I have to limit myself to the most obvious and important events, which in a way they do not seem to add up. So today I want only to talk about the Flood that never was as big as the Bible wants us to believe it was, and then I want to talk about what happened after the Flood, in the Patriarch which is again not possibly correct.
So, I have to say that if one reads religious books properly and in this case the Bible, soon or later one becomes aware that in some cases they have not been written correctly, because sometimes they might not agree within themselves, or there is something that the writers of those times could not be aware of, because their knowledge was according to what was known then. So, let us see what examples we can find to show you, and one of the first examples that comes to my mind is the Universal Flood
The imaginary Biblical flood
The Flood example
There are reasons to believe that the Bible universal Flood, as it is written in the Bible has never happened, because it cannot have happened to that extend, where all the earth would be under water, but at the same time there must have been a flood, just because it is written in the Bible, but it must have not been as widespread as it is written in the Bible, and not at the time the Bible writers want to make us believe it happened. If anything like the universal Flood happened, it must have been several thousands of years before the date that the Bible claims The Flood has happened, and I will explain you why hereunder.
Let me make this as simple as possible, today the Dead Sea in the Middle East is 423 meters below sea level and so are also the surrounding lands of the, Jordan valley- Israel- Jordan, even the sea of Galilee is 208 meter below sea level, therefore a lot of land in this geographic position is below sea level. (If you want to check this out, Google lands below sea level in the Google bar) (Or use the link below this paragraph if it works.) The point we want to make here is this; if there ever was the Flood as the Bible claims it to have been, then all these low laying areas should have been flooded, since the bible claims that all the earth was under water, which has never been the case, I am saying this because it is impossible for all that 423 meter deep of water to evaporate since then.
If there ever was the Flood, it must have been much small than what the Bible claims, or it must have happened hundreds of thousand years before, so what is written in the Bible is not correct, this is the first reason why some events in the Bible are not correct.
On this subject the atheist would say that most civilizations have a story of a major flood that happened for various reasons: we know they are right and we can find some of these flood stories on the internet if we look for them, even in the Greek and Roman religions, there is this flood that Jupiter with the other gods caused, because people were bad and they wanted to destroy them, so the flood in the Bible is not the only flood in history of mankind. Try this link below if it works:
This above is about the flood, but there is more to say about the timing of some events.
Explaining wrong timing example
In this example, again the timing elapsed between happenings events is wrong; I suppose this has happened because in the past there was no way for them to keep records properly, so, it was easy then to make these sorts of mistakes.
I am talking about this because I have noted it myself recently, while I was reading the Patriarch in the Bible. Now, let me make this clear, this does not imply that the religious book in question that one is reading is false, (in this case the Bible) it only means that the writer of the Patriarch wasn’t aware when he wrote the book that those dates or number of years mentioned in his writings would not add up correctly.
Therefore, I am led to believe that the writer must have been concerned only about the events, just because it is the events that shows the way and makes one believe in religion, whatever the believers need to believe.
But if something is not written the right way then it is wrong, and it doesn’t make sense and one should try to explain the reasons why it happened, and perhaps a way on how it could be fixed; that is if that mistake needs to be fixed and could be fixed at all.
In the past everyday people and even the writers themselves were not aware of these mistakes because they were not as learned as nowadays, and perhaps also a bit careless, because those who wrote the Patriarch could have done a better job if they had checked what they were writing then. So, one is lead to believe that they wrote only to keep religion going the best way they could and if something was not correct it did not matter. As long as they were able to keep the believers faithful their job was done, and they have been able to do that until now. But nowadays when almost everybody can read, and with the help of the computer in most households if anything is not correct it will soon show up.
Therefore some religious books are long overdue to be explained, why they have been written the way that they have been written, and could not be corrected in the past, but they can only be explained for future readers. So I am going to try to do some explaining myself, while I am writing these religious writings of, Prayers for Reconciliation including Reconciliation of the Universe.
Now, before I change to a different topic, let me say this; since I am writing most likely I will make many mistakes, I know I will, because I am not a trained writer, I am only a self-taught writer who is trying hard to write my religious points of view, just the way I believe they are supposed to be written; So, if and when, my religious writings were to be published: Hereby I invite the future learned religious people or any other learned people of the world to set things right. And above all I invite them to criticize and straighten any of my mistakes, and try to improve my own ideas wherever they need to be improved.
Now, I need to explain once again that what has driven me to write these religious writings are some happenings in my life, so, it is all because I wanted to write down my own religious beliefs, and therefore I wanted to read some religious books, just to make sure that I would have the right ideas about what to say in religious matters, even if my religious ideas may happen to be different from my religious readings. So, I started to read from beginning to end the most read religious book of them all the Bible, and as I kept reading it I became aware that in Genesis although the writer mentions always how many years the Patriarchs lived before the flood starting from Adam and so on, and all of them seemed to have lived a very long life span compared to nowadays, but there is no mention of the time past overall, and one can only guess that there was a great length of time overall; this is from the creation of Adam and Eve, to Noah and the flood, as written in the Bible.
So, I was led to believe that the writer of Genesis did not have the knowledge of the time that actually had passed between these events. And it seems to me that he is only writing the story as it has been told from generation to generation, anyhow the length of time is not very important, as everything is in the past, with the exception of seeing whether it would be correct or not. The same thing happens also later on, when the writers talk the events after the flood; so let us look at the Patriarch after the flood, because it is easier there to see what I mean.
Counting after the flood
In The Patriarch, after the flood, again the writer is writing a story the way that it has been told from generation to generation. But here somehow it becomes too obvious to an observant reader, that the numbers of years mentioned don’t add up at all, because the number of years and the generations that the writer mentions, are not enough to achieve the re-growth of the population, and the events that happened during that mentioned time frame. So, if the reader takes time to work it out for himself, he would become aware that there must be quite a few generations missed out, it also contradicts other length of time, and here I would like to write everything down the way it is written in the Bible to show you what I mean.
Just to make it a little bit easier to calculate, it would be helpful to take, the year of The Flood, as year zero, and then one could calculate the years that have passed since the flood according to the writer list of The Patriarchs. So, the following list is how it could be worked out.
Start counting from, The Flood, taken as year zero. 0
Shem descendants, only the first born would be written in here:
Shem, became the father of Arpachshad two years after the flood; 2
Arpachshad, became the father of Shelah, when he was 35 years old; 35
Shelah, became the father of Eber, when he was 30 years old; 30
Eber, became the father of Peleg, when he was 34 years old; 34
Peleg, became the father of Reu, when he was 30 years old; 30
Reu, became the father of Serug when he was 32 years old; 32
Serug, became the father of Nahor, when he was 30 years old; 30
Nahor, became the father of Terah, when he was 29 years old; 29
Terah, became the father of Abraham, when he was 70 years old; 70
So, if we calculate the number of years past according to this list, from the
Flood to the birth of Abraham there are only 292 years accounted for. 292 years
Abraham lived for one hundred and seventy five years then he died. 175
Therefore, Abraham died 467 years after the flood according to this list.
It is written in the Bible that Noah lived 350 years after the flood, and Shem, the son of Noah lived 500 years after the birth of Arpachshad, So that means that he lived 502 after the flood, then both Noah and Arpachshad should have been still alive at the time of Abraham if the list above were to be correct. In fact if everything in the list was correct: Shem, the son of Noah would have been outliving Abraham by 35 years, and that seems highly impossible.
Now we have also to take into account the growth of the population that had tried to build the tower of Babel during that time, which is after the flood and well before the birth of Abraham, therefore 292 years as I have worked it from the list above, could not be enough time for the population to grow that much and try to build the tower of Babel. There is also the fact that they could not even think of building the tower of Babel so soon after the flood, while Noah and Shem were still living, because they could see what the people were doing and would certainly forbid them to do that, since they would have known that it would anger Yahweh. Therefore they would certainly forbid the building of the tower, and their offspring would listen to them, since they knew that Noah and Shem had seen the power of God during the flood. Therefore the building of the tower of Babel must have happened at least a few generations after Noah and Shem died.
By taking in consideration what I have said above, I reckon that there is at least one thousand years, and perhaps up to two thousand years not accounted for, in the list of the Patriarchs as shown above.
Of course the writer of Genesis never intended that the list above be understood as I do now, it may be that he wrote the story as it was told by his ancestors, or perhaps he wrote a longer list of the Patriarchs that got lost and nobody knows how to find it now.
Notwithstanding what I have said above, we have to take in consideration that when the book of Genesis was first written, the writer had to overcome lots of limitations that were present at those times. The very first limitation was that there were no other religious books before this one; there wasn’t enough writing material to write on; there were only a few people that were able to write. Almost everything in those times was passed through words of mouth from generation to generation, therefore when happenings were too old or too many to remember people just started to forget them; and I am sure that there were even more limitations that I have been able to mention, so many that one would never been able to think of the many limitations of those times.
Therefore the writer of Genesis did a real great job, if one considers all the possible limitations that were against him. And the book of Genesis is as good as could have been written at that time, the value of the book stands high because one has to read it as if it is correct for religious purposes.
Our views of religions
My dear readers, I hope that after these explanations above that we have written, in our subtitle article of “Explaining timing example” and “After the flood” you are able to see what I mean, when I say that religions need to be reviewed, or at least explained why they are written the way that they have been written, so that people can still believe in religions and God, this also include the atheists, whom believe in not believing in any religions at all, but you see even them believe in not believing, therefore I have to conclude that mankind needs to believe in something, one way or the other.
In these religious writings of, Prayers for Reconciliation and Reconciliation of the Universe, I am trying to write a theory about God of the universe that may help to achieve religious co-operation worldwide including the atheists. This religious theory is going to show how I believe the spiritual life forces of the entire universe could coexist together, and they would able to achieve what needs to be achieved, in order to run the spiritual part of the universe, which I believe is in another dimension, and also be able to run our life on earth with whatever links we are linked with to the spiritual dimension. I hope that you follow our religious writings to the end to see what we are going to write, in our theory of Reconciliation of the universe.
Anyhow, we have tried to write about this theist and atheist views and explained as much as we could, we had to do it the long way, but there is still a lot to be said and we will continue to write later in another article, that we are calling, humanity and religious dilemmas. So, Reconciliation of the Universe is going to be continued. See you next time.
May God bless us all?
Other useful religious links
- Religion about man creation
God creation of Adam and Eva is doubtful and also other things written in the Bible creation. This does not mean that God did not create man, may mean God created man with the help of Mother Nature.
- Religious theory
This religious theory is based on the facts that man needs God and religions, so there is this need to review the existing world religions in such a way that they would be able to serve humanity.
- God works in mysterious ways
God works in mysterious ways, let me tell you a story. My own life observations ond story of how God works in mysterious ways.
- Prayers of Reconciliation
Prayers of Reconciliation, I come to you praying Father Most High and eternal life giver of every living thing, I am praying thee for forgiveness of my sins and reconciliation.. People prayers to God.
- Man needs God
Again this is another religious blog, with a slightly different point of view.
- Religious Reconciliation Doc
This is a blog about religion, very much the same as this hub.
- If you believe in God
This is a religious blog, covering religions in a slightly different way.
- Manfraco.blogspot.com General Blog
This is Manfraco Laws and his friends main blog, with advertisement and links to their blogs and web sites
- Prayers of Reconciliation
This is a religious site opened to house most of Manfraco Laws and his friends religious discussions. (No: 1)
- The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
The Holy Bible translated from the Latin Vulgate.