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Should Christians be Pacifists or can they Fight the New World Order?

Updated on August 24, 2014

Should Christians Fight the NWO?

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I was recently chatting with a friend about my latest hub "Why Tea Parties Wont Work" and he brought up an interesting subject that I have struggled with for years now. That is, if we as Christians know what will happen at the End Times, IE that we will have a one world totalitarian government, that the RFID chip will be implanted, that the Anti-Christ will come, you know all the stuff that goes into the End Times, should we fight against it?

I have to tell you I have thought and thought about this subject for a very long time. I have gone back and forth in my mind. And even now I don't have it fully settled in my mind. The video by Greg Laurie helped me a lot so I would encourage you to watch it. The gist of it is that we are to try to win others to Christ in our personal behavior, however, God did set up the government for good and justice is of God, therefore the military and the police force should be institutions that carry out justice. If they do not, that is another matter and one that our founding fathers and I think the bible would say we should oppose.

(Matthew 5:38) Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (Matthew 5:39) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

To do good to those who abuse us:

(Matthew 5:44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute you; (Matthew 5:45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. (Matthew 5:46) For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

And to bless those who persecute us:

(Romans 12:14) Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. (Romans 12:15) Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. (Romans 12:16) Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. (Romans 12:17) Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. (Romans 12:18) If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

The previous mentioned passages are guides to how we should live our personal lives. However, should a person determine to do evil is it good or evil to try and stop them? I'm for the right to bear arms, my Dad had an entire arsenal of guns around when I was growing up and he taught his daughters how to fire them. I think we have the right to defend ourselves. I think that the state has the right to a just war and I have written about that and I do believe that the state has the authority to enforce capital punishment (although I am against it in this country because of rampant abuse) but personally I don't think we as Christians have the right to strike out offensively against anyone. That's not to say I don't support those who do think offensively and if I were not a Christian I would be right there with them. But, my beliefs keep me from going further. Am I wrong? Tell me, I would actually welcome the argument because even personal pacifism feels very uncomfortable to me.


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    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 3 years ago from Manhattan

      I can't argue with that Celine! Thanks for commenting.

    • profile image

      Celine Martinez 3 years ago

      Being that Christ Jesus is my Lord, Provider and Protector, I believe He will come again to take the Christians from this earth and fighting back will no be necessary. However, if He does not, I will trust that He will remove the sting of death and I will not fear it. It will be better for me to enter heaven than to take a life in order to prolong my life. Having said that, I will continue to walk in the Holy Spirit who guides me daily and in being obedient, anything can happen,

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 5 years ago from Manhattan

      I agree "NoOne"

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      NoOne 5 years ago

      I have thought about this a lot lately and it is something that has really bugged me, but I think I have found a solution. We as Christians SHOULD resist, but we should resist in a peaceful way. We should not use violence such as trying to kill as many people as possible, but instead just say no. If they want to take you, put up a fight, not a physical fight, but resist. Logically speaking though, they have more weapons than us and if they really wanted to wipe us out they could just nuke us. If we use violence we give them a reason to use violence against us. Instead if we resist peacefully when they do use violence, other people will see that we are Christians and it will inspire other people to not give in. Also another good strategy is telling as many people as possible about the plans of the NWO. Go not silently into the night. Scream and shout and struggle if you have to.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      Thanks for commenting Misato. The thing is, we DO have a say. The Bible says that if we deny HIM he will deny us and if we take the mark we are denying him. It's not a matter of Christians committing suicide but it is a matter of loving NOT our lives before Christ. Read the Bible it will help you.

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      Misato 6 years ago

      What I don't get, is the fact that suicide is a sin, and we are not suppose to kill, and that means ourselves also.


      Then there is the RFID and the mark of the beast, which many christians will say that God wants us to kill ourselves before taking the mark.

      So id god being hypocritical here? Does god want us to leave it up to him, when we go, even when we are suffering, but then turns around and wants us to kill ourselver over a chip? Or is it that many christians just don't know what they are talking about?

      I think it's the latter. God would never be hypocritical, I think.

      So can someone explain this whole situation? Is God really being hypocrtical or are we allowed to still be saved if the chip if forced upon us and we don't take it willingly? I don't see how a God who gave his only son to save us would then damn his children for something that isn't their fault or had any say in.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      I usually don't allow outside urls on my comments but these are very good and I agree with them wholeheartedly. Thanks for posting them. Non-violent non-compliance with love is the key.

    • profile image

      the self appointed apprentice 6 years ago

      I found a video that looks like the right answer not just for christens but for all man kind.


    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      Thanks Frank, lets hope that I am right and you are wrong about the pre-trib thing :)

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      Frank 6 years ago

      Brie...great article and as a Christian I find myself in the same dilema as many fight,or flee. Still as I fight this whole issue spiritually and pray constantly that the Holy Spirit will lead me thru it all and I do trust that He will. I am not as you, I do not believe in the pre-trib rapture so Im looking at 3 and a half years of whatever may come before the Lord returns to remove us and end the reign of evil to setup His Kingdom. Right now I lean towards building my faith and preparing to go thru the tribulation helping others as I am able and trusting in Him to lead me in all other decisions as I'm certain He will! I do believe that we are on the verge of this coming upon us before this years end and will keep you and yours in my prayers. Right now the Lord tells me to prepare and bring as many unbelievers as possible into the fold that I am that's where I stand....once again great article and one that I see many brothers and sisters struggling with....may the Lord keep you all!

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      Heath 6 years ago

      We were told to be as wise as serpents but harmless as doves. Take what you can from that.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      Thanks for commenting Nobody. It's a difficult subject and one that I go back and forth on A LOT!

    • profile image

      Nobody 6 years ago

      I haven't read all the comments but find them interesting. I haven't contemplated fighting the NWO so much, it simply has to be. What i have thought about often is the chaos, riots, wars, devastation and disaster both natural and man made. Some 20 years ago kids began to kill kids for tennis shoes, can you imagine this society getting hungry? My contemplation has always been is it right or not to defend yourself and your family.

      There is a movie called End of the Spear, a particular scene haunted me. A missionary was going to a people that no white man had ever seen and lived. He had a shotgun in his plane, his young son asked if attacked would he defend himself. The missionary replied to his son, no, I can't do that I am ready to go to heaven and the natives are not. That whole seen and statement haunted me for years as I have always been in favor of defending myself, my family and for that matter others if necessary. As things here have become obvious as to the direction this country is heading as well as the world I began to ask the lord if I was missing something. Let me first say DO NOT take what I say as an answer, you should seek that on your own. As i prayed and wrestled the issue it seemed to me that the lord spoke to my spirit and said the difference between those that would steal, kill or harm for food and goods and that of the natives is that the natives didn't know any better, violence was all they had ever known, everyone in your country knows better!

      That settled the issue for me and I have had a peace about it ever since, and yes I am a gun owner and carry and I am a Christian.

      Just a little off the subject someone made great mention of white christians and the harm they have caused. I have rarely read such a racist piece of material in my life. For all the preaching in those word it appears one might check their own heart before they cast stones.

      To close, peter was once told to put away his sword, later he was told to take two, Ecclesiastes 3 was written by Soloman, the wisest man to have ever lived. Yes there is a time for all things, even to kill, it is the heart and motive that one must be careful of. I would also say we shouldn't confuse a daily walk with Christ with that of a nations responsibilities. As previously stated there have been many wars fought and peoples destroyed at god own command and he used his people to carry it out.

      Good Article Brie, I appreciate your thoughts and allowing them out for discussion. God Bless

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      I agree, only I would add one thing..stop eating packaged GMO food!

    • profile image

      Ben Dover 6 years ago

      What can Americans do to fight the New World Order?

      1. Turn off or throw away your T.V.

      2. Think for yourself.

      3. Question all so-called ‘Authority’

      4. Get out, and/or stay out, of debt!

      5. Use cash, trade or barter as much as possible, rather than debit cards and credit cards

      6. Get rid of grocery store ‘discount’ cards –grocery stores provide this information to insurance companies.

      7. Bank at a Credit Union, or any alternative to the ‘TBTF’ Banks, that participated in the 2008 Banker Bailout.

      8. Invest as much as you reasonably can in precious metals – especially silver.

      9. You have the right to own a firearm, to protect yourself,and your family. Read the 2nd Amendment.

      10. Buy products “Made in America"

      11. Start your own garden

      13. Meditate or pray - reduce your stress!

      14. Get exercise!

      15. Read a book (here is an excellent book recommendation: Psychological Warfare and the New World Order:The Secret War Against the American People )

      16. Listen to soothing classical, jazz, ambient, or other alternative music

      17. Watch ‘Freedom to Fascism’–a film by Aaron Russo (can be found here:

      18. Watch ‘Why We Fight’–a film by Eugene Jarecki (can be found here:…r_embedded)

      19. Watch ‘Endgame’–a film by Alex Jones (can be found here:

      20. Below is advice from John Perkins’ book, entitled THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN EMPIRE (The Truth About Economic Hit Men,Jackals,And How To Change The World), pp. 322-329.

      “AVOID SHOPPING AS ‘RETAIL THERAPY’ (Instead, jog, meditate, read, or find some other solution).

      SHOP CONSCIOUSLY – if there is something you must have, purchase items whose packaging, ingredients, and methods of production are sustainable and support life.


      PURCHASE AT CONSIGNMENT AND THRIFT STORES –where everything is recycled.

      Write letters telling Monsanto, De Beers, ExxonMobil, Adidas, Ford, GE, Coca-Cola, WALMART, and other labor exploiters and environment destroyers



      DOWNSIZE (your car, home, wardrobe) – everything in your life (and don’t buy what you don’t need)

      SUPPORT/SEND MONEY only to non-profits, radio stations, and other organizations that promote JUST causes.

      VOLUNTEER your time and energy to such organizations.


      ENCOURAGE stores to buy from local growers, producers, and suppliers.

      Shop at your LOCAL FARMERS’ MARKET

      AVOID DRINKING WATER THAT IS FLUORIDATED (only your toothpaste should have non-industrial fluoride)

      INSIST that those who use your money – banks, pensions, mutual funds, companies – make socially and environmentally responsible investments.”

      21. Invest in precious metals (especially silver).

      22. Research every company whose products or services you buy

      23. Research every organization to which you donate your hard-earned money

      24. Vote with your dollars!

      25. Watch ‘The Secret of Oz’– a film by William T. Still (can be found here:

      26. Get prepared for when the U.S. dollar TOTALLY COLLAPSES - You'll need 1) Water, 2) Food, 3) Vital Medicine 4) Gun/Ammo, etc.

      27. Global, non-violent, NON-COMPLIANCE is the answer, of We the Plebs, to the ‘elite’ New World Order!

      28. Find alternatives to EVERYTHING that they’ve set up, to entrap you in THEIR system.

      29. What would happen if 200 MILLION AMERICANS refused to pay their taxes, in 2012? (Just a hypothetical question)

      30. Familiarize yourself with the concept of BOYCOTT

      31. Corporate Membership in the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations):

      32. Don’t ever join a ‘secret’ society

      33. Watch 'Global Warming or Global Governance' ( )

      34. Educate yourself. Thomas Jefferson: "If a nation expects to be ignorant & free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was & never will be."

      Expand the above list,and share it with everyone you know!

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      God knew about the Canaanites and yet he had Joshua fight them?

    • profile image

      Mike 7 years ago

      Jesus wouldn't allow his disciples to stop the Cruxifiction. Why should we fight anything that God has ordained? It simply makes no sense. Are we Christias first or Americans?

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Very true

    • profile image

      SirDent 7 years ago

      Trusting God is easy when things are going well. In fact, it is easy to trust anyone when things are going well. Trus when things look or seem very bad is much harder to do.

      This is why we must put our trust in God now while things aren't so bad. That way when things do get bad, we will have lots of practice in trusing Him. ;P

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      That's what tiggers do best! :)

      Seriously, I think it is an important topic and while it is easy to say now that we should just trust in God, it might not be so easy when they are hauling off your kids and wife to be killed.

    • profile image

      SirDent 7 years ago

      I like what Tchardo wrote. Violence begets violence. According to the Bible our warfare ius not physical, but spiritual.

      The three Hebrew boys came to my mind as I read this. They fought against the government by not bowing down to idols. This is the mindset we must have as Christians and followers of Christ.

      You certainly have stirred up a lot of emotions with this hub. Very well written.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Thanks carol, I'll look into him.

    • profile image

      carol 7 years ago

      Hello It does depend on whether you as a christian believe you are going to go through tribulation or not.

      I do not believe that those who are truly for God will go through it.

      Having said that I do believe Christians must defend themseleves. A good author to read on this subject is Peter Hammond you will find him on the net.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Tchardo, I'm not sure what point you are trying to get across. The NWO is evil, about that, I have no doubt. How to oppose it is the question.

    • profile image

      Tchardo 8 years ago

      Fighting the NWO... to what end?

      The means toward ends have a way of contaminating the results of those efforts. If you violently overthrow a government, you eventually see the means used toward achieving those results take control over the results; if power is acquired by violence, more violence will be used by others to achieve their ends.

      Globalization is an inevitable trend. The more our technologies continue to shrink the world, the more our policies effect each other, and also the more hurricanes are spawned from even the flapping of butterfly wings.. it's a collision course.

      For almost all people, our mentalities, our consciousness, isn't ready to function amongst each other in such densely populated lifestyles. We aren't aware of the consequences to each other at a bus stop (you know... forming a line rather than pushing to the front and such), and we can't seem to even agree to stop polluting the planet to such a degree where we're killing each other. Frankly... we're still a bunch of animals (despite our amazing potential to be more), and we can't function in harmony without being controlled or us killing ourselves off, devolving into feudalism.

      Globalization is inevitable. Only a matter of time. What I think really is the question, is how to lead groups to reconcile (with or without the control of a central government) our differences equanimically? All protest about globalization seems generally to target a few core issues: one nation or ethnicity exploiting another without anyone to hold them or their corporations responsible, unfair business in general, conflict over resources, or cultural homogenization.

      Here again, we see a kind of give and take effect in not only the consequences of our actions being turned back on us in attitudes echoing our own, but also in the methods we use to achieve our ends... government achieved through military means leads to the sorts of corruptions we see in authoritarian governments: if not in one generation, then in the next.

      What makes people fear the idea of "The New World Order" is a lack of compassion, a lack of values that they can respect... they don't understand that the fear itself is also a control mechanism. Or maybe they do... that Goering quote is going around a lot about leading a people toward war: "...All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger... etc"; anyway, the fear of one's own government circumvents and eclipses a focus on the big picture in just the same way. Christianity teaches as much in many of its lessons, the gist of which is that we are born flawed and that people on earth shouldn't fear evil rather instead focus on the afterlife and making themselves pure enough in the eyes of God. In other words: focusing on the big picture is more important.

      So then... what does work? If I knew, I'd write books ;) I do think though that if we had the time, that ideas are what matter; that mentality and consciousness are at the source of all behavior, all reactions, all desires, all political agendas (if channeled and perverted by leaders), and that education of people leads to transparency in government and fair and civilized interaction with others and competitors. Christianity can be a blessing in this way. Unfortunately... do we even have the time? It doesn't look like it. It looks like we're desperate to stop things from continuing as they are, because it is obvious that that way leads to massive destruction and tragedy beyond anything else we can imagine, and the longer we let things go as they are the harder it is to pull this thing around.

      I don't know.

      What we need first: education, cooperation, unity, compassion, understanding, and then, after all of that, communication. I think that that goes for both the slow process of reform and empowerment of each other, and for the quicker means of direct confrontation and attempt at control.

      There should be room to pursue Christian ideals in the world which would result from either, though.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      You're right foreignpress, sometimes it gets very hard to see the forest for the trees though.

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      foreignpress 8 years ago from Denver

      As usual your hub stirs passion and controversy. But as Fiona said, "Where is the line?" To put that another way: Who or what are Christians fighting against? Is it corrupt governments? The NWO? To me, the fight is spiritual not physical. The fight is against Satan. So how do Christians fight an unseen enemy with so much power? It's done by recruiting more believers who will be warriors for God. In the end, that's where it counts the most.

    • profile image

      derf 8 years ago


      I did not know how serious vote fraud had become until I started seeing it mentioned by people I really respect. I started coming across such articles in the literature about 9/11. Here is one example:

      I paste this link because it gives a short description of Dr. Griscom's credentials. Here is a much longer list of credentials:

      Way, way down near the bottom, there is a short summary of his interests:

      David Griscom’s Interests:

      Physics of radiation-induced defects in glassy materials. Geology of asteroidal and cometary impacts on the Earth. Exposing election theft in the U.S. and seeking to put an end to it. Researching 9/11 truth. Tracking the implosion of the economy and identifying the responsible parties. Reading Science magazine every week for 40 years.

      This is why I made my comment about how well informed you are Brie. Smart, attentive people are more likely to notice that something is terribly wrong than average people.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Thanks Derf, always nice to wake up to a compliment.

    • profile image

      derf 8 years ago


      I must say, you are a very well informed person.


    • profile image

      U.S. Citizen 8 years ago

      We should fight against the new world order, but arms should be the very last resort. There are other ways as I have mentioned. It starts by exposing them and the truth about them. We need to show other people that the new world order is not theory, it is a fact! When enough people understand their agenda, they will be able to see through our politicians and what they are doing to us. If enough people know, then things will change. Tell the world, the power is in the word.

    • profile image

      U.S. Citizen 8 years ago

      We can vote them out. I think the Goooh party concept might be one way. Check out,

      We can't just give up, we have to try to turn things around in this country. The biggest problem is the people have been brainwashed by the liberal media, that has to change! We need to turn their hearts and minds around. We have to point out to everybody what is wrong with liberal thinking and their agenda. We need to throw out the liberals in the republican party, or form a whole new party. The republicans need to get the message that it's time for a change. No more liberals, no more favoring big business, very limited or no lobbyists, we the people must come first.

      If millions of people spent just one month, every day blasting the republican party for liberals like Lindsey Graham and John McCain it would wake them up. If we demanded a conservative Christian agenda and platform they would have to listen. If enough people threatened to form a new conservative party, they would have to listen.

      We have to have the right platform and get the word out. The right message can bring people together, youtube, blogs and emails are the way. We can bring this country together and take our country back. Everybody believes it is futile, that's the problem, we have to have faith. If enough people come together we can vote them out. People have to become involved and take action. It's time that the people decide what we want, and come together. United we stand, divided we fall.

      Have faith!

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Thanks for the comments Fiona, I'm not sure where the line is myself.

    • gracefaith profile image

      gracefaith 8 years ago from United Kingdom

      Another great and thought provoking article Brie,

      I can't say I'm too sure of Christians going to war. I have never been called to take a life, nor has God given me a direct understanding of His will where war is concerned.

      One thing I will say confidently is this. When it comes to spiritual war Christians are too passive. God is beibg chased out of our society and we continue to roll over because we want to be 'nice Christians'. Spiritual death and decay is all around us and the Church is all but in hiding in many cases. My key thought on the matter always comes back to this. We need to cut the noose but we don't believe in scissors.

      Christians are becoming too nice to fight social and spiritual injustice in the way we are called to. Where is the line?...No one seems to know.

      Grace and peace sister,


    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      U.S. Citizen, voting doesn't work any more. They control the what?

    • profile image

      U.S. Citizen 8 years ago

      I think you should rethink your thinking. I'm not going to quote the bible, but I will say that on principals we are to stand up for ourselves, stand up to injustice and evil. There were wars fought in the bible. I don't think we are to be warring with our neighbors, spouse or coworkers, but anti christian or invading armies I believe is a different story.

      If we are to be passive, then we had no business fighting Nazis, the Communist, or the tyranny of England. If we are to be passive with justice and evil, then we should let all the child rapist go free to do as they will. I DO NOT believe we are to be passive! We do need to punish evil, such as child rapist and murderers.

      We have a duty to stand up to evil, we have a right to protect our families, our neighbors, our country from things like communism and tyranny. You pledged allegiance to this country, that means you are to stand up to tyranny and fight for freedom. I'm not advocating armed revolution, but a voting revolution, and defense of our freedoms, liberties, human rights and the sovereignty of our country. I don't believe god will fault you for doing so. You should not be troubled by this. I do not believe we are to take everything in the Bible literally, if we were, we would all be blind from plucking our eyes out the first time they offended us.

      If we do not stand up to evil, and stand up in defense of the innocent, and have law and order this country and the world will go to hell. If we don't stand up for freedom, liberty, and Christianity will be banned and Christians will be persecuted.

      There are those that are trying to weaken our country down so that we can be easily taken over. We need to stand up to this and push back while we still have the power to do so. It starts with voting.

    • djbraman profile image

      djbraman 8 years ago

      This is a kind of thing a lot of people question concerning what they will do in such a circumstance. I believe we have to follow God's word, that we are to continue in our work and walk with him even in the face of persecution. That is what will separate the sheep from the goats in the end. I agree with you and disagree with you. The bible tells us that the gates of hell cannot take the church. It didn't in the early church and it won't in the end either. Jesus protects his flock, but I do believe that certain individuals like ministers of God will have to make a decision whether they will take a stand for the truth of the word or go along with the world, and I think it will be a bad situation for those anointed by God to bring truth and light. Many will lose their boldness in Christ. But as far as the flock I believe we are to not respond to evil done against us, but the Lord says to rest in him and he will manifest and fight our battles.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I say some have some haven't. Most people who claim Christ are not Christians at all, you shall know them by their fruit.

    • terced ojos profile image

      terced ojos 8 years ago from

      LOL...I didn't miss your topic I believe that what I posted to your hub was part of the whole. Namely a host of twisted and perverted scripture. Where does Jesus advocate attacking anyone in scripture. Yet this country twisted and continues to twist scripture to maintain power and control over the minds of some very lost Christians. You are speaking of the New World Order.

      I'm no different than you. I walk my walk, I have peace, I get angry. I got to the right, I go to the left. I come back to the middle.

      You quoted Jesus at the end of your last response to me. "Do good to those who abuse you, bless those who persecute you." The better question is have Christians in the United States acted as Jesus would have acted?

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I am angry at all sin, especially sins against children like child trafficking. I can't say that the sin of racism is better or worse than raping children. Are you angry about that or just about your own pain?

      I've written about many things, some of which you mention. Sometimes I am angry sometimes I live in the peace of God. Nothing will be right until He returns, and you can't stay angry forever. Jesus wasn't angry the whole time he was here on this earth, do you think things were better then? I think you have to do your best, try to right injustice and live the life God intends for you. I think you missed the main topic of my hub by a long shot because you are blinded by your own anger. Be angry and sin not. It also says to do good to those who abuse you, bless those who persecute you, do you do that? It doesn't sound like it to me.

    • terced ojos profile image

      terced ojos 8 years ago from

      Brie Hoffman you should be angry. Be angry and do not sin. You should be angry that current and past history pervert the love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ; You should be angry that the evil of racism in the Christian church has divided a whole nation and kept them from loving each other with the Agappe love that God has intended. You should be angry at every evil, ugly thing racism has allowed to pervert the Christian experience in this country past and present. Brie you should be asking yourself real questions that can effect real change in the body of Christ.

      Why do prominent white Christian pastors say it's okay to fight unjust wars?

      Why does the military actively use the clergy to pervert scripture and teach men and women that it's okay to kill for God and country when clearly what they are fighting for is a lie?

      Why is the Christian church racially segregated when it says it has Gods love?

      Why are you not angry?

      America has never been a Christian nation. Its moral compass is rooted in a racist white Jesus, God and country manifest destiny doctrine that comes straight out of the pit of hell.

      The topic of your hub is the perversion of scripture by the white Christian church past and present. Your hub speaks to a veritable mount everest of underlying perverted Christian concepts.

      Brie if you don't know or care where we have come from you cannot possibly know where we are going.

      White Christian terrorism is just beneath the surface and is a powder keg waiting to blow at any minute. They are the wolves in sheeps clothing.

      They are ready and willing to use violence in the name of a white Judeo Christian God at a moments notice and believe themselves to be doing Gods will when they murder.

      You should be very angry Brie.

      Love your God with all your heart,mind, soul and all your strength.

      Love your neighbor as yourself.

      How can anyone with any knowledge of the Love of Jesus Christ; how can anyone presume that it is okay to attack and kill others with his supposed approval? It's blasphemy Brie.

      If you love God you would be angry.

      The New World Order will take care of itself; why concern yourself with enigmatic things you have no control over.

      You can however effect the racist demon that so divides the Christian church in America.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      terced ojos: I don't understand your anger? Are you mad because I am trying to do the right thing? I can't help what others have done, they will be judged at the appropriate time. Do you disagree with the hub? I agree America is guilty of much, but that isn't exactly the topic of the hub is it?

    • terced ojos profile image

      terced ojos 8 years ago from

      How many scriptures have white Christians in America perverted? Your hub is ridiculous to me because America has very clearly perverted every and any scripture they could find to justify the evils they have committed; which most often involved the death of somebody of color. Indigenous peoples killed and their land taken. There's a scripture for that, blacks enslaved..there's a scripture they perverted and used to do that...and on and on and on. When you say that America is a Christian nation you are actually saying that you approve of it's racist lieing murderous past.

      The greatest evil of course is that these things were done in the name of Jesus Christ and by and large white Christians ascribe to them today.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Interesting comments and of course I love the Bob Dylan lyrics. Like I said in the hub, this pacifism doesn't come easy for me but I think it's the right path. I guess each person has to look into their heart and decide for themselves because each person will give an account to God.

    • majicat profile image

      majicat 8 years ago

      I was talking with a friend recently about a new line of clothing called "Gods country" , it is combat camouflage with christian symbols hidden in the pattern. I just shook my head. but then how many wars have been fought over "God and country" ? all of them? It seems to me that in every war all the soldiers felt they had "God on their side". Dylan Wrote a song, long ago, these lyrics are appropriate to the discussion;

      "With God On Our Side"

      Oh my name it is nothin'

      My age it means less

      The country I come from

      Is called the Midwest

      I's taught and brought up there

      The laws to abide

      And the land that I live in

      Has God on its side.

      Oh the history books tell it

      They tell it so well

      The cavalries charged

      The Indians fell

      The cavalries charged

      The Indians died

      Oh the country was young

      With God on its side.

      The Spanish-American

      War had its day

      And the Civil War too

      Was soon laid away

      And the names of the heroes

      I's made to memorize

      With guns on their hands

      And God on their side.

      The First World War, boys

      It came and it went

      The reason for fighting

      I never did get

      But I learned to accept it

      Accept it with pride

      For you don't count the dead

      When God's on your side.

      When the Second World War

      Came to an end

      We forgave the Germans

      And then we were friends

      Though they murdered six million

      In the ovens they fried

      The Germans now too

      Have God on their side.

      I've learned to hate Russians

      All through my whole life

      If another war comes

      It's them we must fight

      To hate them and fear them

      To run and to hide

      And accept it all bravely

      With God on my side.

      But now we got weapons

      Of the chemical dust

      If fire them we're forced to

      Then fire them we must

      One push of the button

      And a shot the world wide

      And you never ask questions

      When God's on your side.

      In a many dark hour

      I've been thinkin' about this

      That Jesus Christ

      Was betrayed by a kiss

      But I can't think for you

      You'll have to decide

      Whether Judas Iscariot

      Had God on his side.

      So now as I'm leavin'

      I'm weary as Hell

      The confusion I'm feelin'

      Ain't no tongue can tell

      The words fill my head

      And fall to the floor

      If God's on our side

      He'll stop the next war.

      The saying, "Praise the lord and pass the ammunition" love your enemy with a 44. how does one do that? Jesus said; "if my kingdom were of this world, my followers would fight" this is at the heart of the matter really. the kingdom we are in and we support is not of this world. So yes, pacifistic resistance, personally, I take that up to a point. I wont passively allow someone to beat, hurt or kill me or any of my loved ones. I am armed, I know how to use them. I would have no problem lobbing a grenade into a tank aimed at a hospital. but how to pull the pin of a grenade with my teeth and drop it in with love? do I say, "here you go snookums, say hello to jesus for me" *BOOM*

      lets face it, if you find yourself in a fight, to borrow from the movies:

      "Now remember, if things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is." (the outlaw Jose Wales" 1976)

      Can a person be lovingly mean? fighting for the sake of love? I guess if we get to that point, on some unfortunate day, we all find out what we are made of.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I agree A M Werner although it doesn't come easily for me.

    • A M Werner profile image

      Allen Werner 8 years ago from West Allis

      Brie, I am a pacifist, have been for a long time. The Bible says our carnal mind is enmity with the Creator. It is fighting for survival at all costs. It can be difficult at times to circumvent it, and listen to the Spirit that teaches love thine enemies and do good to them that persecute you, for if you love only those who love you, don't sinners also do the same? Christ asks alot of us, but then again, He gave His all for us. I believe He has earned the right to set the rules for entry into paradise. Peace.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      The problem with voting is that it is rigged (the voting machines are rigged, a man who was going to testify to this was killed 2 years ago in a plane accident in Ohio), even so what will be will be.

    • Vladimir Uhri profile image

      Vladimir Uhri 8 years ago from HubPages, FB

      If we use the weapon we have voting out of president and congress we do not need the guns. Otherwise we get what we deserve. Thanks for great hub, Brie.


    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I definitely believe in a pre-trib Rapture, in fact I have plans for a hub on that subject too. I am 100% convinced that there will be a pre-trib Rapture. But, that doesn't mean we get out of suffering prior and the Christians that are here after will suffer too, God will carry us all.

    • Harlan Colt profile image

      Harlan Colt 8 years ago from the Rocky Mountains

      Yea I am a little torn too Brie. This is why I asked you a couple days ago, what you plan to do in the big city when the poo hits the fan. I think we need to look to the apostles example. They stood up in the middle of the opposition and spoke boldly the Word. Some of them were killed for it. Remember the Lord said to put forth the word and it will not come back void. Once you put your hand to the plow you don't look back. Worry not what they will do to the body, but what God can do to the soul. Fear not man - fear God.

      And remember Moses? He never even so much as through a rock. He just obeyed God and God fought all his battles for him, wiped out Phareo's whole army. Also it says not to worry about what you will say, that the Holy Ghost will give you words when it is time to speak. Its natural for anyone to resist pain though. Jesus himself prayed if it were at all possible, if there be any other way, he wasn't looking forward to 39 lashes and a day on the cross, but he did it anyway - FOR YOU! Remember, if you were the only person on earth, Jesus would have come down and died just for you.

      My curiosity is if it will be Islam that is the One World religion used to bring in the New World Order, because they like to do the head chopping thang and the Bible mentions that too, or will it be some new fangled snow-job ushered in by the False Prophet.

      My biggest worry is those who get left behind. For now, I am hoping heavily for the Pre-Trib rapture for all those I love and care about - and my own bacon too. I know there will be people left behind who get saved once they realize - uh oh....I got left behind! If Jesus comes first, then we don't have to even worry about chips in the hand etc, and being someone's torture doll, or being hunted down for sport. I can see em now, "Let's go christian hunting, I just bought me a new tag."

      I used to tell christian friends, "I'll see ya in the air". So keep the faith Brie, and I'll see you in the air! Hopefully with all my arms and legs etc., I know their not the top of the line models, but I kinda like 'em.

      - Harlan

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Well sheila b. according to the Bible these things will happen whether we fight or not, the scripture is key to my argument here. If I was not a Christian I would fight.

    • sheila b. profile image

      sheila b. 8 years ago

      I can't argue on the religious beliefs because I'm not familiar with them. My mind works on a much more personal, immediate level. Our children and grandchildren. Should we passively accept a world order which takes away the rights we've had? I think we owe it to the children to fight for America to remain free and independent.


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