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56 "The Bible Was Written by Who?"

Updated on January 30, 2013


“Who Wrote The Bible?”

One day not to long ago I asked myself a question. It was a question I had asked myself many times in the past but never did anything to find an answer. I always just assumed that there was really no concrete answer.

Anyway, I asked myself, “Who wrote the Bible?” Now that I have the Internet, I decided to look for an answer. I came to the conclusion that I was right all along, there really is no concrete answer, but I do have several answers and I am going to share them with anyone that takes the time to read this article.

I know that there are a lot of people in this world that read the Bible. There are several religions that preach and live by the Bible. There are groups and/or people that quote the Bible and there are those who interpret what the Bible says, and usually it is interpreted to fit their needs and beliefs. Many people tend to use the Bible for their gain. It’s not right, but they do.

But, when you ask “who wrote the Bible”, there are no clear cut answers. There are a lot of good answers, but never any that are clear cut.

Even on the Internet there is no single answer. I have put together excerpts from a place where I found a group of answers, wiki.answers.com.

To be able to read the complete listings go to: wiki.answers.com/q/who.wrote.the.bible

What I found is as follows:

1- A group of bishops at Carthage in 397AD “assembled” the Bible from books, chapters and writings of various prophets, apostles and disciples.

2- The Old Testament came from stories handed down by word of mouth over thousands of years.

3- God used men to write down his thoughts much as a business man uses a secretary. He allowed them to put these thoughts in their own words. But the men themselves said they were inspired.

4- The Bible was written over a 1600 year period. Its writers came from different times and came from many walks of life. Some were farmers, fishermen and shepherds. Prophets, Judges and Kings. The Gospel write Luke was a doctor.

5- The Four Gospels, it is claimed, were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Two of them apostles and two companions of the apostle of Christ.

6- The apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ wrote the New Testament under the inspiration of God. The Old Testament was written by Moses and the prophets under the inspiration of God.

7- God is the one who wrote the Bible. There were many authors to the events that took place in the scriptures. All of these can be found in the contents page of the Bible. There have also been many translations of the Bible but most consider that the KJV is nearly the most accurate.

The Bible was written by more than one man. In the first part the people wrote what they saw as it happened and in the second part they wrote under divine inspiration. There were many people, true and God’s words as he spoke are in the Bible. There is a list of people credited to writing the Bible on the web site listed previously.

8- The New Testament (modern Christian Bible) was written in the 14th century by Emperor Constantine and his council in his own words. This fact is confirmed in the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, which also states that any original text was altered, apparently in order to create some form of consistency across all documents.

Unfortunately, the copying of earlier texts, leaving some out, making some up, introduced many errors and inconsistencies in the modern Christian Bible.

There is a list of these on the web site also. It is a very interesting web site.

Anyway, I asked one question and found many answers. But at least I found answers.

My feelings are that, first of all, it doesn’t matter who wrote the Bible. The Bible has been here for many years and has given a lot of people inspiration and a reason to believe that life and love are worthwhile.

It is also my belief that even if you don’t believe in the Bible you can still live a happy and loving life. But the Bible does have a lot of interesting stories.

Back to the reason I wrote this article; no matter who wrote or who was involved in the writing of the Bible, there are good points there and the Bible should be respected. The words in the Bible should never be twisted or interpreted to fit evil deeds.

Greg


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    • gregas profile image
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      Greg Schweizer 23 months ago from Corona, California.

      You got that right and exactly why I wrote this. Some people put the Bible way too high on a pedestal and rely way too much on the preaching's in it. Thank you.

    • promisem profile image

      Scott Bateman 23 months ago

      Excellent subject. It raises the question of whether the Bible is the "Word of God" or "Word of Man". If it's the second, which you are indicating, then I think that anyone reading it should consider the social and political motives of the people who wrote it.

    • gregas profile image
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      Greg Schweizer 3 years ago from Corona, California.

      To Independent Mind and Talknshare, I believe that everyone is going to get from the Bible just what they want and anyone can interpret it in their own way. I believe it is written that way for that purpose. I believe everyone needs something to believe in and with the Bible they have to believe in themselves first and foremost before they can believe in anything. Just don't put your heart and trust in someone else, especially a false prophet. Greg.

    • profile image

      talknshare 3 years ago

      It looks like you may have found your answer. 5. and 6. is true and 7. is mostly true. To know what to believe, get an NIV, ask God to help you with your questions, then read it all the way through so you can get the whole picture. YES- It does matter who wrote the Bible, because if it's just another book, we have no hope or promise to believe. If it is from God, then it's promises are true and can be trusted. There are many religions and cults who claim to believe the Bible, but as you've pointed out, they sometimes change it to suit their own purpose. That is why you must read it for yourself- so you know what to believe and not believe.

    • IndependentMind profile image

      IndependentMind 3 years ago

      Interesting article. Your findings about the bible's origins are just about all there is to it. It's creation was nothing more than a tool made by the Roman Government to provide consistency to the needs of the people for something to believe in. And thereby gaining control over their lives. People were uneducated in those days and very susceptible to superstition and mysticism, so they tended to believe anything that authorities told them was truth.

      Unfortunately, over the years since its inception it has been used to control the lives and minds of the mindless. Living in a fairytale world is OK for those who choose to do so, but to try to put others down as evil for not participating in those fantasies is distasteful at best.

      Too many wars have been waged, lives lost, and families destroyed in the name of religions that build the foundations of their societies around such superfluous superstitions.

    • alancaster149 profile image

      Alan R Lancaster 3 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

      (Jeez - Here I am at the foot of this great colossus of opinion. Let's hope my effort doesn't crumble under the weight)!

      Well, there was I thinking King James (VI of Scotland, I of England) found a few hours between his books about witches to write down his bible. Then I realised he had his minions to do his bidding, and they were scratching away by the light of a candle somewhere near St James' Palace, vellum nicely squared on their desks and Greek texts propped up in front of them.

      Then along came Gutenberg and made the whole scriptorium staff redundant (or down-sized, to use a euphemism).

      As you know the saying, 'The Greeks have a word for it" (there's another one that goes, "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts", but that's got nothing to do with this issue). What is the word, if you don't mind me asking? You could say the word is "Biblios".

      And there's the nub of it. Never mind Carthage, that's where Augustine came from (and started another fight over here, with the Celtic Church under St Columba, but Rome won out in the end. If we'd stuck with him we'd never have had to go on the Crusades to Palestine. The island of Iona is a lot closer).

    • gregas profile image
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      Greg Schweizer 4 years ago from Corona, California.

      Thank Miz, this hub did stir up quite a controversy as almost anything that has to do with religion does since it seems like everybody thinks they're experts on the subject. Except me, that is. And I did enjoy your comment in lemerick. Greg

    • MizBejabbers profile image

      MizBejabbers 4 years ago

      My God, Gregas! (excuse the pun) I read your hub and was going to leave a comment, but I think I'll just stick to limericks.

      Gregas wrote a hub about the bible

      Then all the comments went tribal

      The bible went on trial

      And the comments went viral

      Proving nothing is viable.

    • Levertis Steele profile image

      Levertis Steele 4 years ago from Southern Clime

      A terrible way to hurt a person is to persuade him to fall for something that you believe will hurt him, not help him. As annoyed as some may seem, we must admit that such people are merely trying to share something that they feel is wonderful. They love us and feel that they are trying to help save us. This is what stopped me from getting upset with people of various religions who knocked on my door or stopped me in passing. People who endure insults and sometimes bodily harm to share something that they feel will help the listener has to love others, even strangers. I am happy that I finally learned this. I have two rules: (1) if a person wants to share his/her beliefs, they must listen to mine, and (2) we must have a fuss-free conversation. Most people have some great things to share even if listeners do not believe all. We rarely find people who are all bad. I usually support what I believe is good and share my thoughts on the points I do not support.

      I confess that I have gotten heated in such conversations before, but I have learned to be happy and let others be happy too. If we do not choose to listen to a person share his beliefs, there are mice ways to let him know without being indignant. How many of us go through one day without using persuasive techniques?

    • Talk N Share profile image

      Talk N Share 4 years ago

      We all have the power of choice and will live as we choose no matter what others say. At the end of your life, will you be happy with your choice? I believe that is the real question.

    • Cantuhearmescream profile image

      Cat 4 years ago from New York

      gregas,

      I couldn't agree more. There is a difference between someone who is looking for answers and someone who already finds comfort in the beliefs they already have. My thoughts are; whatever makes you sleep at night and keeps your mind at ease, works for me. I am the last person to qoute the Bible because I don't know it well enough and the last thing you want to do is quote the Bible wrong; that'll really offend some people. However, I think the Bible is open to interpretation and I don't know that there really is a right answer, each person gets out of the Bible what they get out of the Bible. While working on my Bachelor's degree I was taking an Honor's Poetry class and I love, love, love interpeting poetry. So many times I would find these deep meanings through the coded poems and I would wonder how other people arrived at their simple conclusions, but ya know what? At the end of the day, they were happy with what they got out of the poem and I was happy with what I got out of it, so what difference does it really make?

    • gregas profile image
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      Greg Schweizer 4 years ago from Corona, California.

      If you read any of the earlier comments I am sure you noticed that the question I asked startedquite a bit of discussion and some arguments.

      The one thing I can't understand is, "why can't people just let others believe the way they want instead of always having to argue the point?".

      If wveryone would just live their life the way they chose and quit crticizing others this world would be a lot happier place to live.

      The really sad part is that religion isn't trhe only topic that gets that. Some people want to make everyone THINK their way about everything. Just my opinion, Greg.

    • Cantuhearmescream profile image

      Cat 4 years ago from New York

      My Esoteric,

      That is the perfect word for it; conundrum! I guess I just feel silly, I get to act like I know everything, or just about, to my kids but I just sit there with my mouth wide open and near drooling when my daughter asks me that question. It's the one thing that I can't babble my way through. I say, I really don't know honey, He just is. I guess I thought there was a better answer than that because I admit, I am not very knowledgable about the Bible. Thank you again

    • My Esoteric profile image

      My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

      "Who created God"; the eternal question which your daughter stumbled on, Cantuhearmescream. The answer ultimately must be, regardless how you believe in God, or don't believe for that matter, that something created itself.

      One can ask the question of who created the rock in front of us; our minds can grasp that question ... to a point. When you answer that, then you ask who created whatever it was that created the rock, and so forth until you get the great conundrum in the sky.

      However, ask the same question about the triangle. How do you answer that? A triangle isn't a "thing" per se, like a rock is, but it is just as real. It exists in concept, as an idea that if three lines interect such that the interior angles sum up to 180 degrees on a two-demensional surface, then you have a triangle, otherwise, you don't, it appears out of nowhere and disappears the same way.

      You can grasp a triangle, if it is made of some hard materieal, or you can perceive a triangle if the contrails of three high-flying airplanes happen to intersect in a certain way, but you certainly can't grasp it; nevertheless, it is still a triangle; for a while at least. God is like that triangle to me.

    • Levertis Steele profile image

      Levertis Steele 4 years ago from Southern Clime

      "My feelings are that, first of all, it doesn’t matter who wrote the Bible. The Bible has been here for many years and has given a lot of people inspiration and a reason to believe that life and love are worthwhile.

      "It is also my belief that even if you don’t believe in the Bible you can still live a happy and loving life. But the Bible does have a lot of interesting stories.

      "Back to the reason I wrote this article; no matter who wrote or who was involved in the writing of the Bible, there are good points there and the Bible should be respected. The words in the Bible should never be twisted or interpreted to fit evil deeds."

      Greg, your summation is too thorough for me to add another word. Well said!

    • gregas profile image
      Author

      Greg Schweizer 4 years ago from Corona, California.

      That is also good food for thought as Jackie said about this hub. I will give it some thought and do some research by asking different people for their opinions. Thank you all for your visits and comments. Greg

    • Cantuhearmescream profile image

      Cat 4 years ago from New York

      Gregas,

      This hub and question has obviously inspired a lot of answers. Would you like to work on the question that my daughter has been asking me for the last few years next; "If God made us, then who made God?". I worked on my Bachelor's degree at a Private Christian University and all I ever got out of students, professors and research is; "He just is". Is there any deeper answer than that?

    • Jackie Lynnley profile image

      Jackie Lynnley 4 years ago from The Beautiful South

      I personally think if you read searching for the truth you will find it. I would never twist words to fit my wants since my want is to know the truth. I am amazed how bible study brings about questions you did not know you had and answers you never dreamed to find. Surely God would bring the truth to His own. Even the Devil believes in God...that is certainly not enough.

      Great write. Food for thought. ^

    • Talk N Share profile image

      Talk N Share 4 years ago

      Hello Greg, I was checking out your Hub, saw this piece and decided to read it. I was also going to read all the comments, but time doesn't permit me to do that just now. I expect you got a lot of feedback-- some good-- some not so good. To answer your question-- many people wrote it over thousands of years, all inspired by God, which means He told them what to say. I believe God did it this way so no one could say a man wrote it and therefore it might not be true. The interesting thing about this is the fact that even though the writers didn't know each other and couldn't compare notes, they all wrote basically the same things, because God was the actual Author. To know and understand the Bible, you need to read it for yourself. The KJV is the most popular and is truly a beautiful version, but I believe you'll get the most good from the NIV, since it is the way we talk today and therefore much easier to understand. May God Bless you, Greg, as you search for truth in His word.

    • Healthyannie profile image

      Healthyannie 4 years ago from Spain

      My Estoric - yes that agrees with current evidence and info available. Pick and choose to sell religion. Christianity was not mentioned until 500 -800 af

    • My Esoteric profile image

      My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

      Just for grins and giggles, I looked it up. There are 10 documents included in the Catholic Bible that are not contained in the one accepted in the West by Protestants. There four more books missing from the Catholic Bible that are included in the Greek Orthodox Bible, and there are an additional 19 not contained in any of the three main Christian bibles. Seems like there is picking and choosing going on to me.

    • My Esoteric profile image

      My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

      I would have to disagree, MickeySr, there is very little original documents surviving from the time of Christ to reconstruct much of anything from it. The most complete history that is available are the Dead Sea Scrolls, somewhere btw 350 BCE and 82 CE (some of it had to that late because parts of Mark were found).

      There was, at the time, a furious battle between East and West Catholics as to what the "right" teachings ought to be; from that came the canonical bible, the agreed upon books, from among many, which the Western Catholic church ordains to be the word of God; the Eastern Orthodox Catholic church doesn't use the same set of books, but is just as legitamate.

      Further, none of the writings represent what Jesus really was, just what Peter and Paul wanted him to be in order to sell Christianity to the masses. Christ never thought of himself as God or the son of God. You don't find any reference to that in Mark or Mathew and possibly not Luke. It is only in John does that idea pop up. Until then, Jesus was only a prophet who believed he was chosen to lead God's Kingdom on earth, when the time came. There was no such thing as Christianity, at the time and shortly after Christ's death. There is a reasonable chance, Jesus was an Esseene Jew, from whom some scholar's posit Christians came from; the similarities are fascinating.

    • Healthyannie profile image

      Healthyannie 4 years ago from Spain

      I am so surpised to learn there is no Coptic Bible. Oh what is this is my hand . . . a Coptic Bible. I am glad you agree that many of the prophet's writing were dictated to scribes as historic records show.

      Copticism is not a secret truth and has never claimed to be, it is one the many forms of Christianity.There are records to support some of the historic claims in the Bible but the record of the Exodus and Moses differ greatly if you compare the Biblical record and Egyptian records. In Islam Jesus is a prophet and his teachings are very similar to some Coptic belief systems. Many texts were removed, and yes not even submitted, however modern records show texts to have been removed.

    • forall profile image

      forall 4 years ago

      Hi Greg. Attracting tittle! Intending to read the comments to follow the discussion and read the others' opinions. Thanks for sharing yours :)

    • MickeySr profile image

      MickeySr 4 years ago from Hershey, Pa.

      Healthyannie ~ "many manuscripts have been deselected from the Bible over the years depending on who wishes to benefit from the Bible. The Coptic Bible and faith is probably closer to Jesus' s teachings. None of the apostles actually wrote anything"

      Honestly, I'm not trying to be rude or combative, but none of that is in fact true. There were not 'many manuscripts deselected from the Bible' - there were from time to time those who held that 'this' book that was not recognized part of the canon should be included or 'that' book which was recognized part of the canon should be excluded, and there were many non-Biblical writings always around (letters of Clement, a gospel of Thomas, spurious letters of Paul forged by Gnostics, etc) and so some look back today and reason that these were books removed from the Bible etc, but they were never received by the church as Scripture in the first place.

      "The Coptic Bible and faith is probably closer to Jesus' s teachings" ~ there are a great variety of variant Coptic texts, there is not a concordant Coptic Bible but is debate over what should be included and excluded and the proper translation . . . many of the ancient Coptic texts were translated from the Septuagint, the apostle's Greek translation of the OT. There is no textual or archeological or historic reason to assume the Coptic texts are closer to Jesus' teaching - it is simply a romantic notion that offers some 'secret truth' that dumb old American Christians don't know about as they gobble-up whatever their Sunday School teacher tells them. If the Bible had not been commonly received and the historically orthodox Scripture text for Christianity, then folks would be far more favorable to 'unlock the mysteries' of this ancient Palestinian text from the time of Jesus - but because boring old American Christianity historically counts it the canon of the true faith, folks prefer to scratch around Gnostic & Coptic texts asserting that conniving Christian bishops excised them long ago . . . that simply is not the historic reality.

      "None of the apostles actually wrote anything" - we know that there are some of Paul's letters that he dictated to a 'secretary' (Luke, Timothy, etc) and some of the other apostles may have likewise employed scribes, but there's no reason to assume and assert that none of the apostles actually ever wrote anything . . . however, even if they had not, the letters that bear their names are still their work, they are not forgeries or plagiarisms, etc, the letters to Rome and Philippi, etc, are Paul's own letters (whether he held the pen or not) as are John's letters, Peter's, etc.

    • Healthyannie profile image

      Healthyannie 4 years ago from Spain

      I think the Bible brings out the best in people and the worst.

      First of all Emperor Constantine ruled between 306 - 337 AD.

      The stories in the bible are very much in complete as many manuscripts have been deselected from the Bible over the years depending on who wishes to benefit from the Bible. The Coptic Bible and faith is probably closer to Jesus' s teachings. None of the apostles actually wrote anything as at the time scribes copied down stories which they had heard. Much of the information is open for interpretation and the Exodus account is can be disputed. Great hub and thought provoking.

    • MickeySr profile image

      MickeySr 4 years ago from Hershey, Pa.

      I understand your numbered list is a list of statements you found on various online sites and not necessarily assertions that you yourself are advancing, nevertheless, I would like to comment on just a few of these notions:

      "A group of bishops at Carthage in 397AD “assembled” the Bible"

      This is simply a poor reading of the historic record. Christian doctrine, articulated statements of the teaching of Christianity, came about (even in the New Testament) as the truth commonly held was assaulted by false teaching . . . in other words the idea of, say, the divinity of Jesus, was the normal and common understanding of the church but was only formulated as a doctrinal declaration as that orthodox teaching began to be undermined by wrong teaching. The historic creeds and later the denominational confessions were not circumstances of authorities making-up church dogma, they were instances of the church defining and asserting what had long been believed as false teachers began to advance other teaching.

      The Council Of Carthage didn't 'assemble the Bible', they documented what the church had long understood to be the books that formed the Bible when some (Arians & Gnostics, etc) asserted other non-canonical books should be included.

      "The New Testament (modern Christian Bible) was written in the 14th century by Emperor Constantine and his council"

      Constantine was in fact a capable translator, but all he did was to issue an order that new, standardized Bibles be produced for the churches of the empire . . . some regions had the books in different positions and some regions included some of those non-Biblical texts. He himself did not work on the standardized texts, he merely administered that all the empire's churches should have Bibles with the same books in the same order, etc . . . there was no new Bible produced.

      "Unfortunately, the copying of earlier texts, leaving some out, making some up, introduced many errors and inconsistencies in the modern Christian Bible."

      This simply is not factual. We have today enough non-Biblical texts (personal letters, sermons, commentaries, etc) from 1st century Christians, men who were students of John & Peter, etc, that quote Scripture, so that without even going to actual Bibles of those days but only referring to those non-Biblical documents we can put together the entire NT and nearly all of the OT - and it is the same text that we have today. The common and popular 'telephone game' notion that the Bible we have today must certainly have been altered by being handed down through so many generations, and/or been altered by design by corrupt officials wanting to control the masses, etc, is simply demonstrably not the case - the Bible we have today is essentially the same Bible that the first Christians had.

    • ib radmasters profile image

      ib radmasters 5 years ago from Southern California

      kt

      If you don't know the truth about the past, how are you going to know the future?

      bye

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      To you for the last time this is not a debate or to proof who is wrong or right. because to you there is no write answer ,and the point of how many angles is not important. I gave you a answer. that is not good enough for you . this is my last answer to you ,because you are looking for negative things. What is important is the future .You are not interested in. Good bye

    • ib radmasters profile image

      ib radmasters 5 years ago from Southern California

      kt

      thousands of thousands is not an answer to my question.

      even using the bible quote, how much is one third of the Angels.

      I know that it will be your last answer because you didn't answer the question.

      If someone asks you to tell them how many senators there are in the US Senate, what would be your answer? You can get your answer from reference books in the library, or the Internet, but you would have an exact answer.

      checkmate

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      you have explained yourself very well ,and that is your choice ,or free will ,so I end with this thought . the point is that I do not see you personaly , I do not really have proof that you are there,just words on a screen ,that are saying something ,A story was revealed about a life ,is this true or not because I never seen you a day in my life .can I trust this computer to tell me you exist.after all this machine is man made. Yet you know that you are real.I give you that respect .just to say that you are there. and you exist ,because someone birth you, that is to say ,You are proof of creation and design.you are like no other. your DNA says so ,the thought is the same ,rather you believe or not, does not change the history or what is to come . But we can take a closer look at the subject to be sure .because a choice is vital to life. thanks for your feed backs .this is my last comment on the suject .love to all. Kiss and tales.

    • mthein profile image

      mthein 5 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

      ShawnB - You are absolutely RIGHT; there is not ONE SHRED of PROOF that God exists. This is a true statement of many things in our world. Does love exist? Well, most people believe it does. Is that because of some kind of scientific proof that established it's authenticity? None that I know of. We know love is real simply because we experience it. The same is true for God. If it ever happens to you, you are just one experience away from knowing that God is real. All this debate is useless really, except for people to prove how much they know or to express their heartfelt belief one way or another. As I said before, debating God will NEVER lead us to God. As I also said before, a man with an argument is at the mercy of a man with an experience each and every time. I know that God exists, as do no doubt some of the other "believers" here, because our experiences have been different. Truth is all about perception, and perception comes from our experiences. Why do some have half full and others have half empty glasses in life? This whole area of "Bible scholarship" that is called apologetics, in my view, is nothing more than verbal diarrhea that just cements people into their respective belief corners. God is displayed through the giving of love, first and foremost. Yes, as believers we are to share the Good News, but not force feed it to someone. How many people on this planet don't already know the Jesus story anyway? Our role as believers in Christ is about giving our love to everyone, holding no account of wrongs suffered, and judging no one. It's easy in a passionate debate to lose sight of the beliefs that we hold so dear.

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      All I gotta say is that the brain is completely fascinating to me. If I told myself over and over and over and over again that my dog is a God and I should worship it as such, after awhile my brain will will be convinced that my dog is a God simply because I tricked it to do so. To me that's incredible. That analogy is how I view religion. Most people are exposed to it at a very early age and been told repeatedly during their lifetime that God is real so naturally their brains accept that as pure truth and nothing anyone could say could change that. The human brain has a funny way of working doesn't it?

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      Yeah I can see how you could view it that way Wade. Nothing wrong in believing in such a way. As for myself... I give credit where credit is due. Anybody who has decided to change their lives around for the better I give props to the person because he or she as a human made those decisions with their brains to do it. To me its not gods work, its human ambition, thoughts and abilities and not from a mysterious force.

    • charles wade profile image

      charles wade 5 years ago from Chicago, Illinois

      Shawn, Living in a nuclear world filled with people who have seriously powerful, extremely different ideologies and remarkably ambitious motivation to use force as a means to accomplish their goals allows me to consider the possibility that a restraining power does exist beyond our current knowledge.

    • My Esoteric profile image

      My Esoteric 5 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

      You see Kiss, that is where you and I differ in our concept of God, you think that God and humanity are two different things and I don't; Nature and God, to me, are one in the same, because God created it all; said a another way, Nature is what God is in physical form.

      Was there some sort of template that God created from which we all emerge? I think so, it is called the Big Bang, or at least the instant before; you call it the Bible and it post-dates my template by 13.75 billion years.

      I suspect ShawnB believes in the Big Bang as well because it is now established science. The only real difference, I think, between he and I is that the name I put to what came before the Big Bang is God, and I call the organization of whatever it was that suddenly expanded that ended up partly becoming me, the "template" that God created. Shawn, on the other hand, puts no name to it at all, which is just as reasonable, and is waiting to see what develops next.

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      Listen, I've come from a law enforcement background so I focus on facts not hearsay. So here are the facts: 1- God himself didn't write the Bible. 2- fact... people wrote the Bible. 3- nobody knows exactly what there mindset was when they wrote it. 4- nobody knows there intent. 5- fact... there is no actual proof of God except mans word ( we all know how reliable that is right?) 6- the Bible wasn't written by just one but by many. 7- not a single shred of physical evidence that anyone from the Bible ever even existed.

      All that said... is the reason I don't and cannot believe in the Bible.

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      Kiss... you sound more like Confucius than a Christian or whatever the hell you believe in. If there's salt there's pepper right? Lol.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      Mr ShawnB2011 you are correct ,others do and have a right to trheir choice .But it could never be said that the choice was never there to choose from. with love Kiss

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      Ok kiss. We get that you are a believer but just know that other people have different views. All good in the Hood my friend. Cheers.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      God is perfect I am not .I make misstakes God can undo all the problems and the hurt and wrong done. I trust in that .I can not ad a day to my life .I trust in God for the next day. If my life end its still in his hands what happens .I can not awaken myself from death.

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      Wade. Yes I'm pretty confident it was me and not God. Never heard a voice, never saw em in a dream and never seen any signs of him or it or whatever you prefer to call God. I'm proud of myself that I and I express the letter I got out of the situation I was in. Sorry but most believers give God to much credit when they should give it to themselves more.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      To Mr Esoteric how do you really know that maybe sometimes. in your life God did call on you. his ways are not yours. God is a spiritual body like the example of air not seen but it keeps us alive. Life is precious and God allows us to take in everything we need to live .man has destroyed many of our needs here on earth by pollution. Maybe a day that something bad could have happen to you it did not. someone was ahead of you .in protection. not saying all will have protection but this happens .We all experience good and bad , sometimes we cause our own problems by doing things that would cause harm to others or ourself .but that does not mean that God is not there.

      he allows us to make our misstakes and learn from them ,some of us know wrong from right ,but we will do wrong anyway. God will not protect you for that. But He can forgive and continue to help you better yourself. there is nothing in the bible that is not good for you only how to stay healthy ,

      clean from germs of unclean acts , and taking things that we have no right to take. anthing over done like over eating over drinking, and certain other things He tells us how to have a clean mind and bodies. What people are afraid of is that they might see something in the bible they can not live up to or will not give up for a good standing and clean conseous before God. we all are imperfect .that means we cannot be perfect. that means God knows that ,and he does know what we can do.He is still loving us besides the mis use of his name that so many people have label him and he still even allow us a chance to get to know him each day we breath and awaken. Get to know him .not based on what others say but try from your heart . You have feelings and so does he. this is a treasure that will not always to get .To live on a clean earth free from money and problems and wickedness. Isaiah 65:22 -25 that could be you.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      To Mr. Radmasters I gave you the answer earlier in my comments for the last time I will give this answer and if you ignor me again I will not respond to yo anymore.

      the Answer can be found in Daniel 7:10 ,Hebrews 12:22,Jude 14.

      there are thousands of thousands of Angels. that are posted for duties.

      there are ten thousands X ten thousands that minister to God almighty.

      That is your numbers that is the scriptures. I will not repeat this to you again. and others on this post will witness I gave you the answer.

    • My Esoteric profile image

      My Esoteric 5 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

      I would be between ShawnB and Mthein. While I am not a born-again anything, I have always known God exists, I just wasn't clear in what form until about 10 years ago; now, I am very comfortable in my knowledge in how it all works and what role God plays and what role I play; Jesus doesn't come into the equation other than as a preacher.

      I have stated that belief in earlier comments but to apply it to what Shawn and Mthein, as well as Charles just presented, it works like this: I to had a rather piss-poor life from high-school until my 50s, mostly self-inflicted alcoholism. Unlike Shawns view, I didn't recover alone, but, unlike Mthein, I didn't find God, or rely on God, heck, I didn't even think about God that much when I recovered. What I do believe, since I can't know, is that God created the Universe and everything in it, which includes me; every bit of me both physical and mental. Consequently, God created the where-with-all within me to heal myself. Do I understand how I did this, no. Did I have an enlightening experience like Mthein did, no. I just fell into a deep, 9 month-long depression where I stopped doing just about everything, including drinking, except going to work; when I came out of it, I had no huge desire begin drinking again, only a small one, and had the will power to keep it that way; that was 14 years ago.

      Did Jesus have anything to with this, not a chance. Did the God of the Bible, which ever one you happen to believe is the real one, have anything to do with, not a chance either. It was the God who was responsible for creating the template which the Universe followed in its evolution since the Big Bang that gave me the ability to overcome my infirmity.

    • ib radmasters profile image

      ib radmasters 5 years ago from Southern California

      kt

      You didn't answer how many? That requires an actual answer.

      My point is that scripture is not the truth, and it has no real facts in it.

      This was your answer

      "First of all do you know ther are angles,the bible tells you so ,if you do not accept the anwers already given then you do not accept any answer given. Mr.Radmasters."

      Where is the number of ANGELS?

      Does anyone have the answer?

      Anyone!

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      I answered your question on how many angles, I gave you scripture .if you do not believe in the bible what is the point of you asking a question from bible you do not believe in. Find my post and you will get the answer if you really want to know if not ,you are keeping up confussion.

    • charles wade profile image

      charles wade 5 years ago from Chicago, Illinois

      Are you sure it was you and you alone ShawnB2011. Maybe you ought to take a closer look at your life to be sure.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      I appreciate your comments and I too have had things to happen to me say as a young person ,but I do thank God I made it through the battle line . that now I learned why things happened to me ,it was not his fault only the one who will try to stop you from what God wants to give you for all the pain and suffering you have went though.the one that causes all our pain is satan ,a fallen angle who has lost his place with God !now he is trying very hard to decieve many to loose there hope ,of a real life of happiness. Have you ever seen some one who tries to beat you out a Job by lying to you. so he will not get it ,or make you think someone else has a chance you don't ,Satan has used many religions and other means to confuse people .You are important to God Almighty. many times good things happen for us ,but not under our power,God 's own son came to earth and suffered under the hands of wicked people and demons .yet God could had sent his amy of angles to rescue him. HIs purpose had to be done for us to have this gift of hope .

      Jesus paid your ticket in with his life .All you have to do is accept it .A new heavens and a New earth . No demons no wicked people .2peter3:13 and the ones that have died your love ones who sleep in death. returned to you ,John 5:28 and John 11:25 .

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      It is up To God almighty to decide who is a sheep or lamb or goat, but the bible tells us that Jesus set the example of love ,he did no hold back in speaking the truth .yes many had their own maps of believe when he was here on earth , yet that did not stop him from sharing the truth ,like the sermon on the mount. because our future is just not saving ouselfs but to share and enlighten others to the true treasure of everlasting life , that is what Jesus ment when he said you must love your neighbor as

      yourself .If you claim to love God Matthew (22:37 )then the other greatest is to love your neighbor .

      I feel that very much when I make a comment. Because what good would it be to know what is right and not speak up. like knowing people are going down the road of hidden land mines ,and you have been given the info to save lifes .would you keep silent or would you warn those and help them to safety, if not you can become bloodguilt by God Almighty.Ezekiel 3:17 -20 would you have said that to Jesus stop trying to make people sheep or lambs? I only say what he would want me to.

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      I appreciate your comments and you seem pretty down to earth regarding religion. But, I have had a pretty rough life to the point some have told me I should write a book about it. Not once did I ever pray or seek God to help me through. Me and me alone got myself through my turmoils. Although it seems as though God helped you in yours he did not. You did. Give yourself credit for it. I'm very proud of myself for what I've accomplished. You should too.

    • ib radmasters profile image

      ib radmasters 5 years ago from Southern California

      kt

      you said"First of all do you know ther are angles,the bible tells you so ,if you do not accept the anwers already given then you do not accept any answer given. Mr.Radmasters."

      I don't believe the bible, but you do and in it are the angels. but I asked you to ask your word of God for the simple answer to a logical question.

      How many Angels exist?

      Greg

      I don't understand your last comment. It appears that your comments are all over the place.

      If would be helpful is you put your opinion in the summary.

    • gregas profile image
      Author

      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      OK, if everyone has their own maps, and not actually one of God's maps, then why can't they follow their own map and not have someone trying to put different lines on that map? Quit trying to make everybody "sheep" or "lambs" that have to be followers. Greg

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      that is so true .we fly the plane , but God holds the map. rather we follow that map is up to us. Many people have thier own maps saying this is the best way to get their . yet many maps leave important info out and you are lead the wrong way. but it is up to you to accept what god has given us to use it for our journey to everlasting life.

    • gregas profile image
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      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      The only person that can save you is "you" yourself. And that is by doing what is right for you, whether it is to shoose to follow a God or follow your heart where ever it may lead you. Greg

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      mthein 5 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

      My Esoteric- I'm definitely NOT a Pantheist, but a Disciple of Christ and a Born Again Christian. ShawnB - You have the same concerns everyone does about religion, and they are absolutely valid. Religionists like to banter back and forth about what is right and wrong with their belief structures, when those who are not believers (but curious or you wouldn't be here) sit back and observe this. When your heart and life has not yet been filled by Jesus and you have not received His Spirit, the Bible is not very relevant and can seem like nonsense. Jesus even said that. It was nonsense to me for years. I was raised in legalism (Episcopalian), and while I at least believed, God and Jesus were very far from my life. I did not read the Bible. Then 01-19-07 I received a miraculous Holy Spirit Baptism, which if you're interested you can read about in Acts 2. After that, my whole orientation was different and I hungered for the things of God. I hungered for the Word, and it now made sense to me. I can just tell you, Shawn, that you will not find God in a Bible debate. You will find Him in your life struggles, when you feel lost or abandoned by those who you thought were your friends. What I can tell you from experience is that when that time comes for you and you ask him for help, He will ALWAYS respond, even before you ever receive His Spirit. I had a "call in the marker" relationship with God for decades, because I didn't need a bunch of religious and judgmental Bible thumpers telling me how to live my life. Someone was talking about our conscience, and it's true that we are all given one by God to discern right from wrong. I was raised with love. I was a good person, so I didn't need God except when times were hard. In His magnificent Grace, each and every time I asked Him for help through the first 49 years of my life He answered my call. He does indeed have a plan for each and every one of us, and that plan is unique for you. I was not supposed to be saved until I was 49 years old. Now at 54, He is just beginning to reveal why that is the case. Us big-brained humans crave to know the answers to why and what when it comes to God, but the Truth is that none of us will ever know that, because He is God, and He is the sovereign of the universe that He created. So don't get caught up by all those trying to "save" you. They can't save you; they do not have the power. Only He does. In your quiet place and at the right time, talk to Him. He will always listen and always respond, for He is faithful.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      thtats just saying that all things do not stay invisible. you have spoken truth.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      I am glad you can ,because soon people will see him too, but I hope for the best .

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      Actually, they made a machine that does see air now. Its not so invisible anymore. Just sayin...

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      To Anjegirl

      Again that is your free will , When I make a statment and you answer it ,with your answer as to say i am not correct, like the dust ,then I exspect you to exsplain . because right now you have turned it around that I am the bad guy for asking what you have openly gave and stated. when you can not exsplain something you put off on other people to get the answer ,First I already know where you get the meaning reincarnation.I do know something about it ,I wanted you to tell me .

      not google wich is man made .Again when you have a problem talking to people on your believe it is easy to attack another for not agreeing with you. you are doing that to me each time.

      I ask a simple question ,you called me crazy and forceful for asking .again it was your statment not mine.

    • gregas profile image
      Author

      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      Why is it that nobody can accept that someone either follows the Bible or doesn't believe in the Bible and its content. It really doesn't matter who wrote the Bible. If someone wants to believe the words, then so be it. It isn't up to another person to disprove and sway their beliefs and vice versa. Greg

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      First of all do you know ther are angles,the bible tells you so ,if you do not accept the anwers already given then you do not accept any answer given. Mr.Radmasters.

    • ib radmasters profile image

      ib radmasters 5 years ago from Southern California

      The words and thoughts that are quoted from the bible(s) are parroted by the followers of a religion. They are not independent thoughts, they are quotes.

      For those people that believe the bibles set the way, they should realize that by the time that the individual documents that would become the bible in the 1400s, societies existed. That means that laws, like stealing and killing were already in existence in the world.

      Religion like being a loyal political party voter is abdicating your independent thinking to another body.

      Belief and truth don't make facts out of fiction.

      People are eager to quote scripture until you ask them a question that scripture has no answers.

      Then they say, it doesn't matter, I say that then their quotes don't matter either.

      ? How many Angels Exist

      The scripture has no specific answer?

    • gregas profile image
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      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      Hi Analise, I do appreciate your visits, comments and even discussions. But I have pointed out one thing here, unintendedly, that differences in opinions of religion, or lack of, can start heated discussions, battles and even escalate into wars. And all of this is because no two people really think alike. Also, it shows that people DO still have a tendancy to NOT be followers. Luckily we still have strong wills out there. The only problem is, everyone needs to be able to let others stay that way and not try to make others believe the same way they believe. This holds true to politics. Again, I want to thank all who have, and hopefully will continue, discussing this subject. Just discuss, don't get upset because someone doesn't see things, or believe, the same way you do. Greg

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      anjegirl 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

      I refuse to quote scripture as I know it is not the written word of God or Jesus and I have said this like a million times now and You need to know that "We can't always get what we want," and most ppl. learn this as children and I am sooo not that girl who can be made to do anything because you do and just because you are not asking me to google does not allow you to demand a certain kind of behavior from me and it is laughable how forceful and crazy you can be and as greg has said the majority of ppl. will at least google it first just to check if there are that exact number of websites from which to get scripture on the subject and I listed some history about Jesus that you skipped over while refusing to google reincarnation in the bible-----and again, I don't read your scriptures because they are not gospel and history doesn't lie and there are millions of websites to look up the history of the bible and I recommended that you go to wikipedia before and read about the history of the bible===and again, I say that I don't have time to banter but it has been fun---

      greg, will continue to read your other hubs and this was a great piece---and love the "computor" thing---you're fun and I like your "real" way of starting unintended fires---and watching them burn--analise

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      Author

      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      You are all doing very well on your discussions. I just have one thing to say at this point. Kiss,if you didn't have a computer you would not be in this conversation. Greg

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      you are telling me to google , I want you to give me a scripture Like I gave you. supose I did not have a computer. show me from the bible at hand .of reincarnation. I am asking you not google.

    • anjegirl profile image

      anjegirl 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

      If you google "reincarnation in the bible" you will pull up exactly 13,700,000 websites all of which contain boatloads of scriptures about the subject---the first site that comes up is

      www.near-death.com/experience/origen03. which lists lots of scripture regarding this topic and Jesus told his disciples that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah the Prophet and the Secret teachings of Jesus which were found in 1942 in Egypt in which Jesus himself taught about reincarnation. It was because of the secret teachings of Jesus the Roman Church declared Jesus a "heretic" and why they went after him among many reasons was because he was teaching reincarnation and just in this one first article you can find lots of scripture regarding Jesus teaching reincarnation---I am sure you will find the same stuff in the other 13,700,000 sites that come up when you google it---the Catholics were the first to preach that it does not exist---man changed this not God

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      You say Imaginary friend ,is like saying you breath imaginary air . you can not see air but it keeps you living. So it is with he who created that invisalbe substance air you breath.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      there is no fight here because I am 100% sure of what I say and believe ! I answer the question .and a person does not have to agree . when people dissagree which that is their free will to. To others it seem like argument , like you know if you are a man or not ! but some ones judges you different but they are not you. they can think what they want but the truth lies with you. The same with the word of God it does not change the princples the history and the future weather we believe it or not.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      well if you do not read the king James and I do understand because we do not talk that type of english ,But if you did take the time and study the hebrew and greek sciptures you would get the the same meaning. I did not read from the king james when I gave you that verse I only gave you that ,because most peolple are raised from that bible. if you notice It did not have the these and thous quoted. still There is nowhere and show me a scripture that says you reincarnate to something else ,Give me proof from the bible some one change into another life. if you can not show me ,then you are asking me to take your word over God himself.

    • ShawnB2011 profile image

      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      I'm more or less an atheist. If I had choose something to believe in it would be evolution. Seems more realistic than fantasy to me. Its like this, wars over religion is like kids fighting over who's imaginary friend is tougher. Hope that answers your question.

    • anjegirl profile image

      anjegirl 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

      Kiss

      If you read my first comment here and several others that I have made here, you would know that I do know that the KJVersion from which you quote CANNOT be taken literally on any level and gave reference as to why that is and yet I agree with other commenters that the love has been carried down in many ways through that book. Also, in the many deleted or lost books of the bible that men chose to leave out of the KJVersion altogether, reincarnation is talked about ad infinitum and until only a few centuries ago most all of the worlds religions knew of and believed in reincarnation and many religions around the world still teach it and many people who are being taught that they will return to dust in or out of churches also believe in reincarnation.

      In addition, there are hundreds of books on the market that have been being published worldwide about ppl. dying and going to heaven most of whom come back and ARE believers in what they saw and heard and experienced while they were dead down here on earth to include the fact that they know that we are all here to love one another and until or unless we do----we will reincarnate and we do it in physical bodies just like here on earth and there is no dust. As I have said here, I have studied the history of the Bible for four decades and believe anyone who reads it and takes it literally and quotes biblical phrases needs to study the history of the Bible to know that the KJVersion cannot be taken literally and should not be quoted as being literal because it is not a literal or accurate rendition that is even close to the originals.

      Having said that---I still believe it is the greatest book ever written and rewritten and translated into other languages and edited in the world and I believe that we should not get rid of it just because it is not a literal rendition of that which God gave us originally.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      you mention that babies know certain things, already this is true I am at present with my two month grandson .so smart yet so weak to not know when it is enough to stop eating. I have to take the bottle from him he is actualy trying to drink like a toddler. So I have to make that decission for him when to stop. The bible say says children will be weaker and wiser .true now babies come with eyes open .my first child took a week to fully open, she is 37 now. there is a great difference but the bible has not failed in phophe,cy. We are living in final part.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      My computer tend to skip letters 2peter 3:13 .

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      Hi Anjegirl . that is nice you shared that experience with us , You believe in God"s word the bible that is great ,than I would like to share some scriptures with you. Genesis 3:19 says dust you are and dust you will return.We are Adams and Eves offspring.will all can die. Next what happens at death ,the bible tells us at Ecclesiastes 9:5 (" for the living are conscious that they will die: but as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all") have you ever been fainted or been knocked out ,someone had to tell you what happen . In your case from what the bible is saying you where conscious so you where not dead. I living force the breath of life is active in us . Like a candle the light is lit .once blown out the candles sease to function . God and his son is the only ones who can return that light back or life force. Jesus showed the example with Lazarus is friend. Read the story. Lazarus was resurrected here on earth not heaven. So will be the future for many who have died ,but not now on this crime filled and polluted earth ,must first be cleaned off.@peter 3:13 and acts 24:15. I do not doubt you experience somthing but you where not dead.

    • anjegirl profile image

      anjegirl 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

      Hi all,

      Things seem to have simmered down and everyone is back on topic and I just have to say that in spite of the fact that I know the King James version of the Bible doesn't look much like the original versions I still know that this is a book that has brought millions if not billions of ppl. to a place of "knowing" God and that it will always be on earth until or unless we all learn to love Him as our Heavenly Father and until we all learn to love one another and Kiss we don't turn to dust at all----I died: I went to Heaven: I was still in the same 23 yr.old body that I left earth in and my spirit was not dust----and we have been and will continue to reincarnate in physical bodies until Heaven is a final resting place.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      Well it is simple how do you know it is wrong to kill ,steal , commit sexual sins ,take others rights Do you really think man came up with these Ideas by himself.? most basic laws even man made comes from those first laws ,still active today. Yes we are all Gods people ,but the Jews back then where under the name isrealites,remember they where slaves under phar'aoh of Egypt and at that time God chose them a poeple he would use for a great purpose ,that benifit us today. first he delivered them from phar'aoh hand .and he would give them a land of milk and honey, the promise land. God chose them not because they where better then others because they need more attention and they where a stubborn people, like a teacher who has very good students ,but there are students that need more personal attention. they got it and with many blessings ,yet they turned away to worship other Gods for selfish reasons,manytimes .Gods plan was to send a cure for our dreaded desease death and sickness .the cure was paid for by his son .the family tree of Jews will lead you back to Jesus. Next they would have had the priveledge of ruling with christ in power for our new goverment ,they forfitted it when they had a hand in killing Gods son.Now the Goverment is still in force under Jesus and spiritual Jews you could say ,like an adoption to replace the unfaithful ones. the new testment is a witness to the change.Next any promise God has made will come true ,Just as death true as a curse because of Adam and Eve ,Dust you are and dust you will return. this is truth at death. Now we have a hope to rid death forever ,why his son died for a reason ,for us to live longer than trees and animals and given what Adam and Eve gave away to live forever under God's goverment under paradise conditions. We all as humans will benfit if we learn to appreciate what has been done in our behalf ,like some one who donates thier kidney or vital organ to save a life ,Jesus death saved more then Jews and others ,He covered the tab for all humans who would appreciate the gift of his life Given for us.

    • My Esoteric profile image

      My Esoteric 5 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

      So Kiss, back to Greg's question, how do you know God used those tablets, which scrolls are you talking about, and why would God only choose the Jews to share this information with and make promises to; aren't we all God's children?

      All those examples you used where a written record is required are all man-made technicalities; they aren't the fundamental moral ideas of right and wrong which constitute our conscience, and from which all those other rules flow; including those that appear on those tablets and scrolls you speak of. BTW, studies do show that babies at a very young age, before the ability to read or speak, have ideas about right and wrong.

      Mthein or Shawn, are either of you Pantheists by chance?

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      Out of God's widom he used tablets of laws with the Jews .For a reason. and yet he did this with this with scolls ,later compiled into the bible. I guess that is the same as why the goverment use new lawbooks for taxes .because our imperfection of the use of our brain can only function at a %

      who on this earth is a 100% in use of his brain. if so you would be right we would not need a book

      our mind could hold all info and apply it at a 100% Adam and Eve did not have a book ,Adam talked directly to God himself. And true he only had the law that it was wrong to take what did not belong to you. And that God had the write to tell him what was good and bad for him. like we do as parents .we do not assume our kidds know right from wrong we tell them .or in the real life of this world, man has laws written also not to break not counting on us as humans to know all ,but they expect us to live by or else thats where prisons come from.

    • My Esoteric profile image

      My Esoteric 5 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

      I think this is still on topic; why does there need to be a Bible? The rules of ethical and moral living are part of the original template God created from which we evolved; these ideas don't need to be written down because they are our conscience, if you will.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      Yes I think Mthein has pointed to the true fact that the bible is God's word ,but written by imperfect men. But understanding that God Allowed them to be his secretaries.even imperfect as they may be, other men have been given an honor to write or do a service for God ,they still was given the honor. I think the basic of truth is three or more witnesses ,this good as valid.why he allowed them to write in his behalf when the angles could have , I think it was because humans can understand human reasoning as a witness. example maybe a person who has a speech problem was a witness to an accident ,I do believe even though he has a physical flaw .he still could and some how would give a witness if needed and called by a court.No one would just focus on his speech as much as what he witnessed what he saw.because that is what is more important to the case. All writers of the bible tie in to a common point God himself.The begiining to the end.

    • gregas profile image
      Author

      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      Hi Mthein, You have a very good perception of my hub and you stick to the point. Thank you. Greg

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      mthein 5 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

      ShawnB - Words don't make believers, experiences do. A man with an argument is at the mercy of a man with an experience every time. If and when we come to Jesus, it is when that timing is right for us and when He calls us. It is the unmistakable acts of God that show up personally in your life that make you really sit up and pay attention. As to the multiple authors thing, I understand your point of view. I hold to the belief that the Bible is the Truth, formed out of many truths, but it was indeed written by man. Just looking at the 4 gospels there are many discrepencies when the 4 authors describe the life of Jesus. Human memory is fallible, but the revelation of God is not. The Bible is the inspired Word of God.

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      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      Hi Art, Thank you for the visit and comment. I take it you are not a hubber. But I do appreciate the information. Greg

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      Art 5 years ago

      KJV ATW, A good read Greg, thanks for sharing. Jesus Christ by order of God Almighty chose Peter and Paul to take the ministry to all the world and that is the beginning. All along the way things have been tweaked this way or that, but the message is still clear and simple. Repent, sin is your enemy, ask for mercy,and forgiveness for the God of Israel is a merciful God.

      Back to the real question asked, 40 or so scribes and very intelligent historians works are brought together to form this precious book known as the BIBLE, basic instructions before leaving earth. It's all about mankind and Jesus Christ the foretold Messiah. That's the best I can do! Very interesting though. Thanks for sharing.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      Well I will end this spatt .to say you are right I do not know you ,no more then what you have spoken on printed page. toward me .But I try to be humble enough to see the good side of people then finding any ones errors. I would like the same treatment. Next the book is not the color of steel.it is brown.Next I am sorry that you feel the way you do about my comments as though I am a problem ,you made a comment to me first and a statment. next who I am what I am is no problem only to people who want to seperate in judgement. My inner person is more important .Next you use the word Angelic you speak truth there are good ones and bad ones ,you decided which one you where in speech . So what I will say to end this is that a lady always know when to leave !

      you leave well with love.

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      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      Mthein, not sure why you are preaching to me but to stay on topic of this hub, I think there are just WAY to many authors of the Bible to make me a believer out of it. To many changes and editing going on that to me doesn't hold its originality enough to take it seriously. If it was one author and kept original, I would perhaps believe a little more but im just not easily swayed like that. But that's just me so believe what you will. :

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      mthein 5 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

      Hey Shawn B, right on to the religion comment. I couldn't love the Lord more, which is why I despise Religion. It is rules made by man, initially of good intent I think, to worship God. But when rules get made, then man in his insatiable quest to belong seeks to follow them. That's when the trouble starts as the leadings of the Holy Spirit get tuned out of someone's life. You can't server two masters; and while Jesus was referring to the love of God vs. the love of money when He said that, it would certainly apply to any master that takes us away from Him. He is a Jealous God, and He wants to be our King, which means we are to seek and follow Him, not submit to man-made rules that seek to ostracize those who do not fit in. It was just those people that Jesus came to save; the folks who needed a physician. When we're stuck in religious legalism, we may actually help the homeless in a feeding program, and that's a magnificent thing; but what that person really needs is Salvation so that their life will change 180 degrees from the transformation of the Spirit. If you aren't very connected to the Spirit because legalism has come between you and It, how can you give away what you don't have in that moment; even if you consider yourself a spirit-led Christian? It's the display of signs and wonders that created the followers of Jesus and His Apostles, yet the church today is largely dead, killed by legalism. People feel safe and comfortable in their beautiful church sanctuaries fellowshipping with their friends, and there's nothing about that that's wrong. He wants us to fellowship and love one another. It's just that bringing salvation through the Good News happens Monday through Saturday. This is respectfully submitted as my own views only and is clearly not directed at any individual. I respect every man's walk and judge no one, but the Lord commands us to seek His Truth and to share it with the world as He gives it to us.

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      anjegirl 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

      Hi Greg and you're welcome and I do believe Jesus would have been wearing sandals and in that era they would have likely had leather or whale skin bottoms, I think and rope uppers,like macrame'd together,no???

      And, nope, Kiss, that still looks like a steel dog collar and this has nothing to do with a mind in the gutter,and you know again, this is not your hub or mine to be trolling on and so I am finished engaging you.When things aren't going your way you quickly resort to name calling and hatred and since this in not yahoo but hubpages, people usually have no problem letting others know their gender, their race, their location,country or state on a regular basis whether on a forum or a hub, but you prefer the "behind the curtain" technique of messing with anyone and everyone who will engage you.

      I have more than heart, I have heart and soul and most ppl. who have known me for more than a minute recognize my angelic presence in the world and can hear and feel the love in my funny,sarcastic,truthful commentary on many different kinds of hubs on HP and I work on two other blog sites where I am usually "understood" pretty easily and where I am embraced in love. Love is better than hate and that is what I was trying to get over to you---Much love analise

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      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      Hi Anjegirl, Thank you for the support. But one note, I do believe Jesus wore sandals, not shoes. ;-) Greg

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      A women is holding book . not wearing a dog collar. look closer she is kissing the book .look closer someone else is kissing the book. Just to say I love all people.I use this picture because she is blowing a kiss.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 5 years ago

      For some one to be so professional does not sound like it or have good manners toward others .and if I had a choice for some advice first i would not look for you to give it .and I hope no ones parents would make that mistake with you.. first that pic I use, is a pic ! it does not represent me personaly because that is not my race. next It is nice to know people like you try to come off as being nice and proffesional yet you can not read or understand what is being said, and who you are talking to. maybe you have a degree in something .but i can tell you .you need to have a heart to go with it .maybe some one will listen to you if you do have advice to give. Dog collar is that where your mind goes in the gutter! you who are so proffesional.

    • anjegirl profile image

      anjegirl 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

      Oh, I like Confucious' works!!! Thanks,E

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      My Esoteric 5 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

      Comifician is actually Confucianism

    • anjegirl profile image

      anjegirl 5 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

      Seriously, does anyone know what a Comfician is??? I really want to know!

      Shame on you Shawn, you two had clearly hijacked greg's hub, which is why I told you boys to "simma down" if we're speakin' "hood" here; but you do get props for the "1980's miss America, wold peace" reference.

      But,actually and just so you know, that gorgeous girl in my thumbnail this week is my niece and we still look alot alike; but, I am 59 years young and didn't much like the 80's and couldn't relate to beauty queens much ever, so---

      I'm a rodeo ridin'-- race car drivin'-- yoga teachin'--rape and gangbanger counselor, among other things, yeah, and I didn't much like the 80's; but you get points for making me "lol" on the beauty queen ref. and the hope and love and world peace thing came from my trip to Heaven as I described earlier when I hijacked greg's hub and I hope this will make you laugh as well, Shawn and I promise that all of you would love, "Embraced by the Light," and I recommend that we all TRY to LOVE everyone whom we come into contact with and if we SMILE at everyone we pass by everyday and we can FEEL what it FEELS like to walk in Jesus shoes in everyday life and we can be amazed at how peaceful that will make us and those we come into contact with FEEL! And I think I made it pretty clear that to "eliminate religion" would take one thing off the table for MEN to fight over and that's a good thing,so---

      Kiss,are you a girl or a boy, because we don't know if we are seeing you in that picture or not?---are you THAT girl in the picture with a dog collar on???---that picture is very disturbing and one can only assume that "shock factor" was what you were going for and that you are not sitting at home on the couch on your computor with a dog collar on??---right??

      Also,as an aside,Kiss,I always have a second window open so I can spell check every word that I am not sure about while I am commenting and if you follow my career advice (which appears later in this comment) you will need to know how to spell for any of those professions and I always recommend a simple phonics online course first or recommend always spell checking in a different window---you never want to write anything that you wouldn't want the whole world to read, well, because the whole world has access to everything you write online and because it is nearly impossible for anyone to take you seriously when you cannot spell and punctuate your sentences online---just sayin'

      Be kind boys and love someone today!!!

      Sorry, Greg, I can't help myself; but I think I am still on topic almost---

      Oh, and thanks Kiss for letting us all know how much you appreciate all the comments on your comments on greg's hub and also for letting everyone know that you would be getting back to all of us,,,because you come onto hubs to hijack them off into another direction when you find someone who will "engage" you in an effort to try to knock some sense into you---I do my counseling of 20-year-olds for free---so here is some free advice---as I counsel from a place of positive energy and help young people to direct their anger (all of whom are angry) into something that looks like a career---I would passionately recommend that if you are still young that you find your way into (here's the career advice)politics or lobbying or lawyering; but you will need much work on the "researching" part of your career if you choose one of these. You tend to make wild comparisons and get off topic easily---and again, much love to all--analise

    • mthein profile image

      mthein 5 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

      The most important thing about the Word, in my opinion, is that it is the Living Word. It needs to be read in the Spirit. It is the revelations that come to us individually from reading His Truth that will guide us and protect us in our lives.

    • gregas profile image
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      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      Hi Shawn, I'm OK with the discusions. I just had not been saying anything and I want to try and keep things on tract. I love seeing the discusiond. Greg

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      ShawnB2011 5 years ago from Arizona

      Simma down Greg. I was just trying to clarify what kiss was saying.

    • gregas profile image
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      Greg Schweizer 5 years ago from Corona, California.

      OK, I want to thank all of you for your comments. I wrote the hub to get the various views about the Bible. I have accomplished that, but I did not write it so that the bickering could get so far off line. I welcome your discusing this subject, but please, stay on track of what the article is about. The Bible and it's authors. Thank yoy, Greg