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The Determined believer in hell part 1

Updated on October 17, 2015
It is written that God made man in His own image, has the church repaid God by doing the same to Him (Dan 3:1-6)?
It is written that God made man in His own image, has the church repaid God by doing the same to Him (Dan 3:1-6)?


In a Universalist's point of view

The Holy Book of the living God suffers more from its exponents today than from its opponents. -Leonard Ravenhill




I have believed in the doctrine of the Universal salvation of all mankind now for about close to three years. Just before my wife and I became believers of this beautiful heresy (as some call it), I was a firm believer in hell. I have been a Christian now for about four years, and when I believed in hell, I lived in utter fear. I feared for my sons and my family and most of all, for myself as I knew I wasn't good at being a Christian. My wife, who is the most Godly person I know came across a testimony called a Revelation of hell by a woman called Mary K Baxter. When she finished the book, she was in tears and in fear for her mother who passed away a number of years ago from cancer. She read a part where there was an older woman burning in a small pit for not knowing Christ and it reminded my wife of her late mother as she really knew little about our saviour before she passed away. I felt absolutely helpless and there was nothing I could say or do to comfort my wife. For the first time as a Christian, I actually cursed my heavenly Father for creating me and all the rest of us. At the risk of going to hell, I was angry at God. Can you believe it. I believed in hell, but I acted like I didn't. How strange is that? I stopped going to church, and my pastor was phoning me and asking why I wasn't at church? My wife got upset with me as I stressed how I could not in good faith go to church. I was in torment. Then I felt in my heart that I was being lead to go this path, and I felt it was my Father leading me. So I asked Him if this is the path that He wants me to follow, please put it in my wife's heart too. He did! My wife stopped going to our church and things started to change for us in wisdom and knowledge of scripture. My anger for God eased and then it was reveled to me by a web site verse 1Tim 4:9-11.


" 9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance.10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.


11 Command and teach these things."


It hit me with a feeling I have never felt before. I looked into it some more. The web site is called Bible Truths by L Ray Smith. Ray taught me how to understand scripture for what it is. A blessing of knowledge to what the true nature of God really is. Another web site that helped me out was Tentmaker.com by Gary Amirault. I kept digging and reading and my love and compassion for my Father and beloved Brother Christ grew immensely. My love for all mankind regardless of what religion, creed, or whatever also grew. The fear of hell had no longer a hold on me. I was free to worship and love God without that bondage. I was free from religion and its institutionalized brainwashing system. My wife and I still seek fellowship, but not at a place with four walls and a cross. I came to understand what the gospel really meant, and discarded the belief that it was only good news to some. In my joy, and newfound freedom, I told my old church friends and strangers who are Christians of this great news, but to my surprise. I was accused of being a heretic and a son of the devil and that I should stop twisting scripture to make the message in the bible suite my desires. I tried showing them 1Tim 4:9-11, but what I noticed is that they refused to accept this and they did not command and teach this. I even had a good friend ask me "What about all those child molesters and killers?". I cannot begin to say how that question hurt. After all, are we not to love, bless and forgive our enemies. Recently here in Canada, a known child killer was given a life sentence, and as many found happiness in this sentence, others wished the death penalty be implemented in our penal system. I felt sad for the child who was taken away from her grief stricken family, But I couldn't help but feel great pity for the young man who committed this horrendous crim. I can just imagine his loneliness. I believe those who need love the most are the ones who deserve it the least as written by John Harrigan.It has become evident that many Christians do have a hidden thirst for vengeance, or at least do not want sinners to be saved if they do not repent and Christ hinted this in a parable of the prodigal son known as the older brother, who refused to join in the celebration for his younger brother's homecoming. How is this possible? With time, I became friends with many Christians who call themselves Universalists. We embarked on a journey to spread the good news among our fellow Christians, and many came to the same beliefs as ours. But many still refused to believe in the Good news. They would not allow themselves the possibility that their belief is wrong. Even more sad was that they showed no interest in the reason why we believe in what we believe. I find the more one loves his neighbor, the more he will open his mind and heart to this gospel. I have also learned that many of these determined hell believers put full trust in their church teachers without checking the spirit of truth of these teachings threw scripture. I found that many of them believe that if they don't believe in hell, they will end up in hell. Some reminded me of myself when the thought of hell motivated me to go to church. Many of them when they read scripture read it with their carnal eyes, and have a literal understanding of scripture and rob themselves of the blessings of knowing God's true nature. Some of them when they read scripture have a pharasitical spirit in them, that self-righteous pride in them that holds the spirit of truth at bay. One who knows our Father for what He truly is can only feel sorrow and pity for such people, just as Christ felt pity for Jerusalem before it's destruction. A Universalist feels blessed when one learns of the true love of a faithful heavenly Father. He does not boast about it, he or she goes around sharing this blessing to those who thirst for it. We are ministers who teach the ministry of reconciliation of all things to our Father through Christ His Son (2 Cor 5:11-21). My jaw drops when I read someone's blog on how he or she refutes universal salvation. How can you refute the will of God? How can you refute the desires of God? There can be only one conclusion as to why a hell believer can be so determined to believe that God will allow most of mankind roast for an eternity for being a sinner for a short span of history. The truth is not ready for them yet, and it is right so. Just as the Pharisees refused to believe that a sinner could be saved, so is it for them who believe in hell. We can only feel pity for them and pray for them, just as Christ did for the Pharisees, for they know not what they believe in just as the Pharisees knew not what they did. If they believe that Christ will cast sinners into an eternal oven, so much for Him turning the other cheek.





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    • Electro-Denizen profile image

      Charles 3 years ago from Wales, UK

      The biggest irony of all, is that the concept of Hell has its origins in completely non-Christian thought systems (traceable back to Babylonian concepts). The closest concept to the word 'hell' that Jesus used, was to refer to a dirt heap somewhere outside Jerusalem.

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      Ronald D. Bruno 3 years ago

      I wrote a book about one of the common objections to the belief in the God of Christianity which causes many to become reluctant or remain on the fence. This is the traditional doctrine of eternal hell.

      I do not believe in eternal hell for several reasons.

      It doesn't glorify God. To cast someone into and eternal torture chamber for a mere 80 years of sinning seems extreme. How about those who live only 15 years? It's like throwing a child in jail for life for stealing a bar of candy. Does God sustain punishment of any kind forever?

      The other reasons pertain to the translation of some key Greek words: aeon and aeonios and Hades to start with. These words have variable meanings, depending on the context. If these words are used to describe temporal things, then they mean any period of physical temporal time: age(s), lifetime(s), generation(s), period or epoch of time or the world. If the context pertains to God or His domain it means without beginning or without ending. If it pertains to our salvation, then it represents from the present time forward without end. We view this as forever.

      The scribes and translators were not all on the same page when translating these words. "Eternity", "forever" and "ever" are English terms.

      Everlasting should be translated "age lasting or age during" and some translations properly state the verses this way. One is Young Literal Translation.

      The Hebrew word "ad" is translated three different ways in this verse: "He stood, and measured the earth: He beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow; His ways are everlasting." Hab.3:6 KJV

      Are mountains everlasting? Are hills perpetual? No! In other versions "eternal is used". Does everlasting mean the same as eternal? Not really. His ways are eternal (without beginning or ending).

      Let's read the World English Bible version of the same verse: "He stood, and shook the earth. He looked, and made the nations tremble. the ancient mountains were crumbled. The age-old hills collapsed. His ways are eternal." Hab. 3:6 WEB

      The key verse used to support eternal damnation:

      "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal". Matt.25:46 KJV Notice the translation for the same word is different! Why here and not in other places? Probably because they had a hint that this word has variable meanings. There is a tension between the two realms. One exists in time and the other, outside of time.

      The NIV and NASB use "eternal" to describe punishment and eternal to describe our salvation without end.

      YLT uses "age-during" to describe both punishment and life.

      Now another Greek word is "kolasis" which means cutting off. So combining aeonios with kolasis, you get age-lasting cutting off.

      That's temporal, pertaining to the age of the person or at least no longer than the ages or as long as the world exists. Remember God will destroy the first heaven and earth and create a new heaven on a new earth. (see Rev.21:1)

      Hades is translated from the Hebrew "Sheol". It is the realm referred to as the netherworld, a place inside the earth, the abyss/bottomless pit, where godless souls and demons dwell captive and awaiting judgment. IT IS NOT HELL. IT IS TEMPORAL. Why do I say that? Because at the end of the Bible, death and hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed (see Rev. 20:14). The "Lake of Fire" is more accurately HELL -- which I also believer to be temporal --- fire is physical and numerous descriptions speak of fire and brimstone (as from volcanoes) are mentioned.

      Another important verse to understand:

      "Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."Matt.10:28 "Gehenna is usually translated as hell. It was the firey dump outside of Jerusalem where the Canaanites sacrifices humans and later was used as a perpetual burning dump for diseased animals, people and garbage. This gives us an idea of the final burning dump, the Lake of Fire.

      The important point not to miss is not everyone will be saved! Otherwise, Jesus would not have had to die for our sins, he would have just paid a visit and said, " I gave you the commandments that no one can keep but ... just do the best you can ... everyone gets saved in the end regardless!" If you believe that, you must ignore and delete everything it says about Hades, punishment/ judgment for sins, the Lake of Fire, most of the book of Revelation, the meaning of salvation and hundreds of scriptures pertaining to that and death. What would be the purpose of the gospel if everyone gets saved? There would be no need for it. Hence the Bible would be very short: "Just try to be good ... here's some commandments and a few stories ... see ya all soon!"

      The gospel in one sentence is: Jesus died for our sins, he was buried and rose on the third day according to the scriptures! If you believe this, you will be saved. If you don't, you won't be saved. So, the big question here is what actually happens to the unsaved? Punishment is delivered in proportion to their sins ... but I do not believe it goes on and on.

      The Great Tribulation/ Judgment Day is coming soon and many will experience God's wrath. (John 3:36; Rom.1:18,2:5, 5:9. Eph5:6; Col.3:6; Rev. chapter 6-18)

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      Anon 5 years ago

      Great hub, thanks for writing it!

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      PAMITCHRUS 5 years ago

      I to thank our Father God often for brother Ray.. He has been used mightly to lead many to the truth.. Myself also being one of those .. :0).. You just know he's gonna be one of the brighter ones !!!

      Also SwordofManticorE just wanted to say loved this article, it is so much like my own journey.. I've come to realize that it's pretty much the same for all us "little John's" who speak of the love of the Father and are yet rejected by men..especially those closest to us.. Oh well they don't yet know him so they can't know or understand us..

      Hang in there fellow believers in the Savior of all... there are wonderous days ahead !!! :0)..

      I Love you all .. :0)

    • SwordofManticorE profile image
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      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      Amen. I will dearly miss Ray.

    • Disappearinghead profile image

      Disappearinghead 5 years ago from Wales, UK

      I too am a universalist and it was also Ray Smith's website that started me on this path. I recently read a brilliant book "the Hour We Least Expected" by Steve and Aaron Essary. These guys were hard core fundamentalist Christians until a friend asked them, what if Jesus saved all of humanity? They then set about trying to prove her wrong, but couldn't and instead discovered that the NT supports universalism. This book is their findings.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image
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      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      What I find sad is that they say the Christ is the saviour of the world when only a few are saved according to them.

    • Electro-Denizen profile image

      Charles 5 years ago from Wales, UK

      I've seen quite a few people here on hubpages who've had to leave behind this conception of hell preached to us - of course, fundamentalists can still react and start saying really weird and ignorant things, but I suppose that is part of the course. What I find incredible is how this kind of theology is based on such a narrow understanding of creation. It took me a good while to free myself from this insidious control mechanism used by the church.

      Only somebody who hasn't read widely, who hasn't perhaps studied comparative religion, who hasn't traveled widely, could seriously look at creation in such terms: burn in hell, and so on. It's the spiritual equivalent of believing the earth is flat. I've tried to encourage fundamentalist Christians to look at the fact that what Jesus taught is the same as Hindu doctrine (the basic Tantra teachings), and that amazingly some of the allegories are even the same, which would suggest that Jesus absorbed knowledge of the same strand, but there's zero interest there or to even read widely, obviously. An ignorant argument is always easy to bash someone around the head with! God is love, a being compassion, that's all there is to say on the matter really.

      All the best!