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Defining Values - A Moral dilemma.Who should decide what is right and what is wrong?

Updated on October 3, 2015

Promoting violence by separation.

setting ourselves up for segregation
setting ourselves up for segregation | Source

Promoting segregation

I would add the following terms to the list on the poster:

  • "Afro-American",
  • "Gay Americans",
  • "Irish American",
  • "Chinese American",
  • and any other terms that specify a particular group in this country.

We all have our own personal definitions of "morals" and "values", based on what we were taught, not what is right, logical, and best for every person.

Do we have the right to impose our values on others? Absolutely not.

Those who believe we do - Who gave us that right?

Values defined

There is a fine line between right and wrong, and who should decide on who should decide - where that line is drawn.

By defining ourselves in this manner we set ourselves apart from the average American citizens, and thereby proclaiming ourselves as either lesser than the average American or trying to elevate ourselves as better than the average American citizen.

We are all ''American citizens'' first, our family heritage is secondary to this definition.

By setting ourselves apart from other Americans we open ourselves up to attacks by others, promote dissension, division, and set ourselves up as something "special" in the eyes of others and perhaps giving the impression that we deserve something more than the other "American citizens" do.

Defining "values":

The relative worth, or importance, of anything, from tangible to psychological.
"Value judgments" are individual and cannot be imposed onto others. There are major (and subtle) differences between right and wrong and there must be laws to protect every person from others who do bodily and/or psychological damage to another person (violence toward others).

But morality is personal and cannot be mandated by any religion or government.

Personal, harmless, or victimless, preferences must be respected by others above all else. These are called equal "rights", "civil" rights and/or ''birth'' rights.

An exercise in futility - when logic is lost

The following as an email conversation i was having with a now "former friend" about religion's stance on same sex marriages, who wrote:

Hey, Dave
Finally was able to get on your web site [meaning hub pages].

Very scholarly and you are obviously a student of the issues. I cannot claim the same.

I do have a value system that works for me.I don't find a need to add to the complications we have in today's world.

It is very intriguing to you and that is obvious. It is very complex and lends itself to endless contemplation.

I personally intentionally keep it simple. God , the Ten Commandments, and the values this country was founded on.

As long as we have people we will have dissension.

We have differences with family members, neighbors and the good folks on the other side of the road. At best we can only hope to agree to agree to live and let live. Not likely ! ! !

My final reply was:

Hey. Please do not take offense to this email, or take it personally. This is strictly meant on a generalized basis:
Although i can understand the desire to keep our lives simple, it is, in itself, [religion] undermining the foundation of our country.

Our country was based on diversity, separation of church and state (the main reason for the pilgrims to migrate here was the religious oppression they suffered in their own countries), plus the promise of freedoms that are guaranteed in our very constitution.

And also to escape the rule of tyrannical dictators who are trying to control the lives of all their citizens to reflect their own limited and narrow beliefs. (Whether it is personal, political or religious).

When people join one political party and adhere to their principles at the expense of dismissing all other alternatives, we are backing ourselves up against a wall, in a way that is undermining the very foundations that our country was built on.

By the virtue of merely belonging to any party, does not make their principles absolute, or even more correctly, nor reflective of ALL citizens of this country.

And the majority cannot be trusted to rule when it comes to "equal rights" based on uneducated views and biased values imposed by religion or politics when those who are the oppressors, are themselves corrupted, and limited, by lack of knowledge, education, common sense, or basic logic.

Religion has no place in politics, and politics (government), as well as religion, has no place in our private lives.

The concept of morality is subjective and individualized. Those that will argue otherwise base their views on clumping murder, rape, abuse, etc.., in with their justification for projecting and imposing their own values onto others.

That is never a valid argument, as the differences between crimes against each other, or society itself, are not the same as morality based on personal preferences, or a result of natural attractions by birth.

When the republican party turned its back on the American people in favor of big business they did a great disservice to the American people in general.

So, when i criticize supposed "moral" political posturing by the GOP that is going on today, it does not mean that i am a staunch democratic party member following blindly their entire agendas, nor does it mean i do not believe in laws that protect others from harm, or abuse, by another person, or groups of people.

The point i try to make is to show just how silly each party is in attacking each other strictly to show party loyalty at the expense of those who are independent thinkers, or middle of the road in their political thinking (like me).

Even Christianity was not built on altruistic values. It was a creation of the state of the Roman Empire to take the growing movement of the followers of Jesus (a political rebel who was executed for his stance against the roman government - not his religious beliefs) and adopt its forward direction for its own gain (the control of the people) through the use of an abstract promise of rewards after death, and current control over their lives.

We tend to get lost in the current religious/political infighting and base our opinions on whatever those beliefs might be, instead of what is right and just for all citizens of this country - and even the world.

These are the concepts that i base all of my writings on in my web pages:

Reality, logic, historical content, and common sense that applies to all people, not just to those parties i choose to follow blindly, and our God given equal rights of choice, pursuit of happiness and individuality.

How religion impacts our lives

Religion has indeed influenced every facet of our lives over the past 2,000+ years and longer. Both good and bad.
When people become more educated and learn to actually think for themselves they tend to drift away from those ancient superstitious ideas that all religions seems to cling to.

We can blame social problems on lack of religious influence; and conversely put the blame back on that religious influence itself. It depends on who is making that judgment call.

The lack of religious upbringing in itself, has nothing to do with whether a person is 'good' or 'bad', but rather on how they are treated in their formative years.

I have known many avid church goers who say they are 'Christians' and are the chosen few who so berated and mistreated their children that those children grew up to be social piranhas (and pariahs).

I have also known many gay couples who maintained their respective faiths; and those who had no religious affiliations at all, that brought their children up to be successful, happy, healthy, 'normal', and productive citizens.

The point is that one cannot blame inappropriate behaviors on lack of religious teachings.

But one can certainly blame much of those bad behaviors and mental disorders on religious teachings when they imprint negativity on the innocent children at much too early an age for them to understand what is happening to them - ergo, many grow up with unfounded guilt, unfounded fear, and tenuous beliefs of what is right and what is wrong, emotionally bound to superstitious beliefs out of fear of reprisal from wrathful gods if they dare to even question those teachings.
The definition of the "family unit" is certainly changing, but fighting those changes by trying to destroy them serves no purpose at all, except to add to the social unrest.

So, we can only pray that religions will bring themselves into the 21st century and be an asset to those inevitable changes instead of being the cause of that unrest, hatred and intolerance.

by: d.william 11/07/2012

© 2012 d.william


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    • d.william profile imageAUTHOR


      6 years ago from Somewhere in the south

      Absolutely right.

      I did laugh at your first sentence: "you are a brave lady." I have been called many kinds of names, but never a lady. The "d" actually stands for David. L.O.L. I guess it is a logical "assumption" to equate nursing with females. No offense taken, or meant.

      There is little left in this life that 'worries' me, i do what i can to counter the negative, but there are some that resist and cling to that negativity as if it were a life raft for them.

      I do see society changing slowly, but surely. Once the hatred for the gay population is abated, i am sure they will find another group to try and destroy. It is just the nature of the beast in a "?Christian" society.

      Hub pages promotes censorship, conservative, and religious views since the majority of hubbers fit into one or more on those categories, and making a profit off hubs is more important that the messages that any article might impart onto people. Here is a link to one of them, that has no giant (H) after it, and no ads allowed for its content.

      If readers have an education level above the 5th grade i do not believe any of them would, or could, take offense to anything that is written in that poem. If you get a chance to read it, let me know your thoughts.

    • f_hruz profile image


      6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

      Your are a brave lady. I admire your commitment ... don't worry too much about it, nobody can do a perfect job of curing sickness in all its forms on planet earth.

      Another thing, one doesn't have to have a mental disorder to be so uneducated to think that ghosts actually exist in the real world ... :)

      Let's just do what's reasonable and in line with our capacity, but let's keep pointing out the great self interest people should start to discover, so we can reduce mind pollution as much as possible. I am sure, irrational religiosity, blind nationalism and rampant commercialism debilitates our mental capacity substantially, not just as individuals, but primarily as an entire society.

      Focusing on the benefits of applying healthy reason and critical rationality may just grow and expand the awareness in people, if we help each other be more cognitive of it every day ... right?

    • d.william profile imageAUTHOR


      6 years ago from Somewhere in the south

      Thanks for the comments. I write so many articles trying to make these points that sometimes it seems completely futile. These people are so brainwashed that they are scared to death to even question the validity of their superstitions. And yes, as i said to Mobywho above, i can't seem to let go of my lifetime career of trying to help others over their emotional and physical "dis-eases" in life. Sometimes the sickly refuse to admit they are sick, or prefer to wallow in that sickness rather than make it go away, or simply embrace it as a necessary part of their lives.

      I love this video you linked. I used it often in my articles to try and make people understand the illogical thought processes behind their indoctrinated beliefs, but they just scoff it off as another tool of their satan beliefs as well.

    • f_hruz profile image


      6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

      You are right on target!

      If people would have a greater interest in their own mental health and emotional well being, they could simply pick up a good book on CBT - Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to try and raise their mental capacity instead of following irrational religious or mystical ideas which get so many to the point where the end up loosing ever more touch with reality -

      I think this video is very much to the point ...

      Best wishes, Franto

    • d.william profile imageAUTHOR


      6 years ago from Somewhere in the south

      Thanks for your comments and kind suggestions, and i do apologize for the delay in answering.

      I do agree with you that each of us have the responsibility to forge our own values and views, but to stop with just that believing, is to cheat one's self of expressing their views to others and offer an optional point of view.

      I have never ignored the other points of view of anyone, and i do take exception to blind and judgmental statements made by people who have been brainwashed into their personal beliefs.

      If i do not have the right to voice my concern for those who believe in anything simply because they were brainwashed into believing them, then i would n0t be doing my civic duty to society and to the world as well.

      I can never understand how the concept of indoctrination by new cults can be so adamantly opposed and those of ancient cults so readily accepted. Just because the masses believe something they have been taught, does not make it valid, real or logical.

      As a life long health provider, it has always been my calling to try to teach people how to take care of themselves both mentally and physically. So to ignore their brainwashing and indoctrinated ideas as valid and healthy would make me remiss in my life long career objectives.

      Telling people their religious beliefs may be invalid and cause many people a lifetime of emotional turmoil is as valid as telling an obese person they can live a better, more healthy, and more productive lifestyle if they face their problems, loose weight, and obtain greater emotional stability and a healthier lifestyle.

      Psychological healing is as important, if not more so, than physical healing is at times.

    • MobyWho profile image


      6 years ago from Burlington VT

      Again! You get the brain waves working! Right or Wrong is surely determined individually relative to all the influences of our lives, both literally and figuratively. Even Religion(s) affect persons believe some aspects; swallow the whole bit; have your own 'higher power', or ignore them all. Whatever - the question of R or W is something deep inside you, and only you. (But don't ignore the ability to listen to the other side - they MAY be right.)

    • d.william profile imageAUTHOR


      6 years ago from Somewhere in the south

      Any comment you make is always intelligent. Thank you for reading and commenting.


    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Richert 

      6 years ago from Southern Illinois

      I so wish i had an intelligent comment. I do believe your points are valid and worth thinking about. Keep writing..Cheers..

    • d.william profile imageAUTHOR


      6 years ago from Somewhere in the south

      Thanks for reading and commenting. I never thought of it in that way, but you have a valid point there. I should be using the term "United States of America" instead.

      At least i don't have to move to Canada this year. L.O.L.

    • f_hruz profile image


      6 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

      Calling yourself an American when you are just a resident of the US is also highly preposterous since the Americas include all the countries of South, Central and North America - the second largest in the world being Canada, a bi-lingual and multi-cultural country with great respect for her indigenous population!

      Franto in Toronto

    • d.william profile imageAUTHOR


      6 years ago from Somewhere in the south

      Thanks for reading and commenting. Although i do not understand your comments, i must assume that the last word in your comments is referencing the kind you smoke (or use in brownies). Bon Appetite!!

    • AlexK2009 profile image


      6 years ago from Edinburgh, Scotland

      As to your remarks about democracy and the majority. Any democracy must have mechanisms to prevent it becoming three wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner. And for preventing the sheep mandating that is must be grass.


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