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Truth and Fact
True Nature
As a society we seem to know quite a bit, although not as much as we think. But there are not many who know the truth from the fiction. We like to think everything is relative but the truth is; there is absolute right and wrong. And it is not debatable. We think; if we are good people than we will go to heaven. But what defines good? It is different to many people. Just not murdering someone is good to some. While only lying a little is okay to others. We must accept that there are absolutes and we will be judged by them at the end of time. The Bible says all will stand before God and be judged. Not by our definition of good but by Gods. That is truth. On that scale we are all lost; none can stand before Gods judgment and live. Accepting Christ is the only way to heaven. It is a free gift given by God to wipe the slate clean and be saved to live in eternity with God and Jesus in heaven. For many that is too hard because we enjoy the ease and no guilt of modern society. Everything being relative means that as long as you are not as bad as most, okay, should do; that thinking keeps us safe and protects us from harsh judgments; but harsh judgments are coming whether we believe it or not.(2 Corinthians 5:10 NIV) Our only hope is too accept the gift of grace as sinners and repent. We can not work our way into heaven either; that is another fiction we choose to believe. It is not true. No one person can escape the fact that they are sinners and need a Savior, not a work program. God does not want our works: He wants our faith, devotion, worship, trust and the acceptance of His gift of grace- Jesus. In essence, our lives here on earth for our life in eternity with Him. It is an unbalanced trade but Gods grace is worthy and eternal. We must read His word, know it and live it. We must not rely on the words of others, me included. You must know Gods word for yourself so you can not be deceived by many in the world today. Not always on purpose, may layman water the truth down to make it palatable and get numbers in the church. It will still lead to hell if you follow the false doctrine. Know Gods word for yourself, live it, it is imperative. And...share it: by words, actions and deeds, show the love and forgiveness of God to others. Always reminding them to learn it for themselves. The more you know the less chance you have of being deceived in the first place. This does not mean life will be easy, God guarantees us trouble in this life, but with God for us, who can stand against us.(1 Peter 1:6-7 NIV) God does not promise happiness, He offers peace beyond all understanding and the strength to survive everything in life. (Proverbs 3:5a6 NIV) Hell is separation from a relationship with God, many are living it right now in their lives today. You may be surviving right now thinking everything is good but you know there is something missing you just could not put your finger on it. The feeling of despair even though everything is going okay and you are "happy". It is life without Christ and the peace freely given by Him. Hell will be horrible, but the ultimate torture will be eternity without God and Christ in heaven. With God a peace that transcends all understanding and get through everything ahead of you is a promise. (Romans 5:1 NIV)
Life Application Bible, NIV (1991) Tyndale House publishers, Inc. Wheaton Ill.60189
Answers
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Comments
I understand the argument from personal experience, and I appreciate your story, but it's still special pleading and cannot be demonstrated. Prayer studies have been done by many organizations, both secular and religious, and prayer has been demonstrably shown to have no higher success rate than chance or coincidence. Look up the Templeton prayer study for the findings.
It seems to me, in my experience, believers use answered prayer a lot as evidence, but they seem to only remember the prayers that they claim were answered. Not the ones that weren't. Therefore, any time they feel as though a prayer was answered, of course it was a god responsible, and not just any God, but the god they already happen to believe in. There is no way of knowing or proving that. It's simply special pleading and belief, which is fine for someone personally, but that is not proof. Almost all religions from around the world throughout history claim answered prayer and personal miraculous experiences. Christians are not unique in this. Do you think those experiences of other sufficiently prove that THEIR version of god is real over yours? If not, you can probably see why others would not consider what you're saying add proof of your God either.
How many other explanations did you look for before deciding it was your God that did it? Did you test the results? Did you examine it at all, or did you just go for the first explanation that made sense that you agreed with? Can you see why that would be problematic for someone who is having a conversation with you about proof?
- Author
I ave enjoyed the conversation, I am going to give you my personal experience this time, then I am going to find the footnotes for my belief for you.
I am a recovering alcoholic, at the end of my drinking I was always wakinf from being passed out with the most horrible taste in my mouth, nothing could get rid of it. It was May of 2000. I hated myself and prayed that if God would get rid of this taste I would go to an AA meeting. Before I got done writing it was gone. On the way to the meeting I was crying, I used to live on the water and I missed it. It was a drunks prayer. A few weeks later my last day finally came. I woke my husband up and said I need help. My rehabilitation facility was on the water. I did not know that til I got there. God does here prayer. Recently I have been going through a rough time with things. I asked for a fleece to know God was still with me. It was selfish but I said that if my Pastor calls me today (something he did not have a habit of doing) it would help me where I am. He called. I will be back with the footnotes you want but my faith is solid. I may not be as literate as you are but I will find you freestanding truth. Not proof, that is not my job. The Bible, God, and His son Jesus are absolutes.
I'm not sure why you think I sound angry, simply because I disagree with you. I can assure you, I am not the least bit angry. I'm having a conversation about the points that you've brought up, but if you wish to stop the conversation that you only just said you were enjoying, that is entirely up to you.
In science, a theory is a graduation point. A hypothesis is an educated guess. A theory is based on proven hypothesis, observation, and proven predictions. A scientific theory is not the same as a theory in layman's terms. Other scientific theories include gravity, the germ theory of disease and Heliocentrism. Do you debate any of those as facts?
You make several positive assertions here: You say that God is here to prove it. You say that God is just, and that he cannot be anything else. you say that our minds cannot grasp justice. How do you demonstrate those things? How do you prove them? You cannot use the bible, as that would make your argument circular, and the same could be said for any other religious belief.
I'm asking if you can actually prove any of what you say without resorting to the use of a logical fallacy. I'm not convinced that it's too much to ask for someone claiming to be such a strongly convinced believer.
- Author
Hi,
I do know what an atheist is and evolution is a theory not fact. As I stated, faith and an open heart is needed to see Gods truth. These comments are beginning to sound very angry, I do not wish to have an argument. I am here to share what I know, God is here to prove it, not me. God is just, He can not be anything else. His decision was made in an infinite reality. Our finite minds can not grasp justice and what it means to be just in an infinite reality. Your comments have made me think and learn a few things but I do not wish to be in an angry conversation. Thank you for sharing.
God Bless
Kim
Look up and tell you there is no God? So you're using an argument from ignorance to prove that God exists? I'm sorry, but logical fallacies do not prove anything, let alone the existence of a god. You also don't seem to know what an atheist is. As an atheist, I lack a belief in a god because no God has been sufficiently proven. I do not make the positive claim that God does not exist. You make a whole bunch of positive claims in your last response, and as such, the burden of proof is on you.
You say that we did not evolve. Why? What is your proof that we were created that will go against the landslide of evidence for evolution?
You look up at the sky and you can't imagine hours it could be so beautiful and so wonderful without a god, therefore a god did it. I'm sorry, but that's the argument from ignorance.
What did the animals do to deserve the death sentence in the verse that I gave you? What did the amalekite infants do to deserve death? What kind of god (who supposedly wiped out the entire world in a flood) needs a human army to complete his "justice"? If you ascribe to divine command, would you participate in a mass slaughter like this, and still justify it this way?
- Author
Hi,
With the knowledge I have been given, there are absolutes. I am not capable in my finite mind; able to make you believe because faith is a big part of it. We were created, not evolved, our belief system is inside of us. We all know when we have done wrong, that guilty feeling we have. We usually want to confess but a lot of the time (it seems like always these days)we do nothing. Truth has no secrets everything is visible. If we are just advanced monkeys we would not have guilt or need justice or have any need for truth. God gave each of us His moral code, that is absolute. No one on earth is just enough to decide right and wrong. It has been implanted in each of us and they are on Gods terms not ours. As far as I Samuel 15:3; it is killing, God has judged the Amalekites and death is their sentence. Saul is not doing it for personal gain or judgments, they are killing those who have been judged to die by God. That is killing, not murder. Try looking up the original word, using several versions of the Bible. That might help in understanding how the words should be used.
I hope you find the answer you are looking for, your comments have been intriguing, thank you. I hope to hear back from you again. I am going to supply another link, it is a wonderful article, hope you like it
On a personal note of faith, I can not look at a sunset and not see God; His glory is every where, I love thunderstorms too. Tonight take a minute to look up and then try to tell me there is no God.
God Bless
Kim
I was not talking about absolutes in general. I was speaking of moral absolutes. You differentiate between killing and murder. That's fine and understandable. The Bible does not say, however, though shalt not murder (at least in many translations). It says thou shalt not kill. Is it killing or murder in 1 Samuel 15:3?
The bible says not to lie. If there was suddenly a pounding at your door this evening, and you open it to find your bruised and bleeding female neighbor on your doorstep, you undoubtedly would let her in. She tells you she was just beaten by her husband. Soon, there is another pound at your door. It's the husband, demanding to know whether or not his wife is in your home. Fearful for both of your safety, you tell him that she's not. You lied. Are you absolutely wrong to lie and disregard the commandment? Or is it more moral to lie in that circumstance than it is to tell the truth?
I'm not talking about realism here. I'm talking about moral absolutes. I don't consider myself a relativist exactly, but I'm not exactly an absolutist either. Morality is questionable depending on society and extenuating circumstances.
You keep saying that you hold absolute truth, but you cannot demonstrate that it is either true or absolute. I'm familiar with what the apologetic site carm says, and the dishonest tactics employed by its creator Matt Slick. I'm asking you. Can you prove that the Bible should be believed because it is actually true, let alone absolutely so?
- Author
Your question got me thinking and I have been looking on the internet for definitions of absolute truth and relative truth. I am going to asses some absolute truths: 3+4-7 (that is a truth) To say absolute truth does not exist is the same thing as declaring it is true. Can it be proved that there is no absolute truths? In science there are absolutes; gravity holds us to the ground. Our conscience alone declares absolute truth, the feeling of guilt is the conviction of doing wrong. Truth means nothing is hidden and there is no secret to reveal. Jesus is the word you are right;
and it is His truth that I follow because there is no one on this earth worthy of deciding how much is too much.
At Got questions.org there are some great articles that can explain it better than me. Realisms is the evil in our society today. I do mean I like yellow and another likes blue. It is unimportant in true importance and the complete faith in Jesus and His word. Rape, child molestation these things are absolutely wrong the matter can not be relative.(gotquestions.org)
Thank you for your comment, it really made me think and in doing so strengthened my faith and the absolute truth I know inside me.
God Bless
Kim
Referenced an article from gotquestions.org
I understand what the Bible says, as I studied it in college and as a missionary for years. I am now an atheist. The word of god (I'm assuming that you mean the bible, and not Jesus, who is the word) cannot be used to prove itself true. That's circular logic, and a logical fallacy. In order to prove something true, you cannot just assert that it is. You have to demonstrate that it is, and you cannot use the thing in question to do so.
- Author
The Bible says that sin is wrong, all sin, God does not judge between big and little sins; by Gods standard all is wrong. We as finite people judge levels of sin, that is why we can never be worthy of salvation left to our own accord. God is just in all He does. We are forgiven through the blood shed and death of Jesus and by that grace we are saved and only by that grace. Jesus is our only hope to be forgiven when we ask for it and learn from our mistakes. That is why studying the Bible is so important. God does not change, He is the same always and forever. The commandment thou shalt not murder is not the same as killing. Murder is committed when it occurs to get the murderer something they want. To kill in self defense is not murder. To be killed because of a transgression upon others it is not murder, unless it does not fit the crime. Murder is for selfish reasons. An eye for an eye comment in the Bible is meant to keep justice fair. If someone steals your cow than the punishment must fit the crime you do not have the right to murder in vengeance, it must be justice and not be unequal to the crime. It has been used to justify revenge; revenge is not ours to take it is for the Lord, we are only allowed justice. This is why you must not just read the Bible but know Gods precepts. It has been written over thousands of years by many authors and the message is the same throughout; how to live as a Christian and know Gods precepts for ourselves. Reading alone is not enough.
But you are right belief alone does not make it true, the word of God is what makes it true and His word is absolute.
God Bless
Kim
I would disagree with absolutes. Killing someone under certain circumstances is not wrong, for example. Lying is not always absolutely wrong. Stealing is not always absolutely wrong.
Facts should be facts, true, but can you demonstrate that what you're saying about your religious beliefs are actually facts? Or do you just believe them to be true? Beliefs do not make something true. It's either true or it isn't.
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