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WELSH OUTPOURING: VICTORY CHURCH CWMBRAN - RICHARD TAYLOR - REAL OR FAKE?

Updated on September 30, 2013

The so called “Welsh Outpouring” led by Pastor Richard Taylor began on April the 10th 2013 at Victory Church, Cwmbran in South Wales.

Victory Church is part of ecumenical “Churches Together” in Wales (Cytûn). “Churches Together” in Britain and Ireland was formed in 1999 and evolved out of the British Council of Churches. All the main Christian denominations are members of Churches Together including the Roman Catholic Church. “The Presidents of Churches Together in England are the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Archbishop of Westminster, the Free Churches' Moderator and a fourth President chosen from one of the other member Churches.” Cytûn also has affiliations with the World Council of Churches. http://www.oikoumene.org

The smaller evangelical churches in Cwmbran have resisted joining “Churches Together” because they see such a move as compromise. According to Taylor, these smaller churches see Victory Church as “separatist”, meaning I presume that their stance (as mine is) is that Victory Church has turned away from biblical doctrine and the true body of Christ and has compromised with ecumenism.

My understanding about the doctrine of “separation” differs from Taylor's somewhat. I would not call Victory Church “separatist”, but rather the small churches who have not joined “Churches Together” are “separatist”. The doctrine of separation is entirely biblical and is to be practised in order to prevent believers becoming deceived by pseudo spiritual individuals, organisations and “churches” that deviate from the teaching of Jesus Christ and the apostles. This doctrine of separation is now being eroded by those claiming to be Christian who are collaborating with Roman Catholics, Jews, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons and others in the name of “unity”. God's love is promoted at the expense of doctrine, which is denigrated, and consequently we have major imbalance and problems within evangelical and charismatic circles today. Biblically, the ecumenical position taken by Victory Church is totally unacceptable to any true follower of Jesus Christ and this in itself is reason to avoid them.

There are a number of scriptures which promote the doctrine of “separation”:

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.(Matthew 7/15).

..watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. Romans 16/17).

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6/14)

Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord (2 Corinthians 6/17).

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. (2 John 1/10-11).

Taylor makes much of the fact that he takes no salary from Victory Church, but this is not quite true. The Taylor's source of income comes from Victory Outreach UK which is closely affiliated with Victory Church and shares the same postal address. The Taylors' live in a rather large house belonging to Victory Outreach. It was possible to ascertain that for the year ending 31 March 2012 "Richard Taylor received remuneration of £30,000 in his role as Executive Director." This is almost double his salary for the previous year. Taylor's wife must also receive similar remuneration as co-director, though this information is not available in the document. In 2012 the total wages and salaries were £248,685 for sixteen members of staff. The tangible fixed assets were £1,489,460 (freehold property and land, vehicles and office and other equipment). There were also other expenses. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends11/0000291611_AC_20120331_E_C.pdf

For the sake of openness and accountability it would be appropriate to know more about the financial relationship between Victory Church and Victory Outreach. Taylor is also an author, a TV presenter and a visiting speaker elsewhere which must generate additional income. Clearly the Taylors' lifestyle is a far cry from the majority in his church who rely on state benefits.

Taylor's ambition is clearly to be the pastor of a “mega church” in Wales. He is extremely defensive and negative towards local evangelical churches that have stood against him. Whilst accusing these churches of being critical towards Victory Church, perversely, Taylor is guilty of making judgements and derogatory remarks about them, specifically about their size and calling. Taking scriptures out of context, Taylor accuses these churches of envy and says that they should “rejoice with those who rejoice” (Romans 12/15). In context this verse means that Christians should rejoice in “things good and laudable” as Gills Exposition puts it. In context Romans 12 tells us: Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good (Romans 12/9), it does not tell Christians to rejoice with those who rejoice in what is false. It does seem rather paranoid for someone in Taylor's position to seek to pull down those whom he disdains as insignificant, but clearly they have touched a nerve.

Taylor: “Churches would run us down and accuse of us of all kinds of nonsense as what we were seeing was exposing their lack. The Bible exhorts us to rejoice with those that rejoice, and as God was moving mightily we became the subject of complaints from leadership’s within other churches!“

One instance of this “nonsense” may have been the fact that Taylor's friend, heretic and deceiver Tommy Tenney was guest speaker at Victory Church on the 10th of February 2013. Tommy Tenney is the author of the book The God Chasers which has been widely condemned as promoting the anti-Trinitarian heresy of Sabellianism.

Clearly doctrine is not important to Taylor: “Once a large church has established a healthy congregation it has more pressing matters than to argue over doctrine with the next spiritual fad.” What does Taylor call “a healthy congregation”? Without sound doctrine there is no spiritual health to be had! Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path. (Psalm 119/105) Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. (1 Timothy 4/16) See also 1 Timothy 4/6; Titus 1/9, 2/1 etc.

Taylor says he is shocked by suspicion towards Victory Church since its growth and “outpouring”. This is a naïve reaction, and yet it is difficult to believe that Taylor is naïve. Many supposed Christians accept everything spewed out of the mouths of wolves in sheep’s clothing; but at the same time, many discerning Christians have been sickened by the way that Christianity has been brought into disrepute by so called “revivals” and false teachers in the recent past, the so called Florida “outpouring” led by Todd Bentley being the most recent example. In fact interestingly Todd Bentley did visit Cwmbran in December 2011.

The home page of Victory Church (http://www.victorychurch.co.uk/) contains no scripture, it is just a bleat of “outpouring”, “outpouring” and more “outpouring”. In fact the whole website continuously spews “outpouring” with no scriptures in sight.

Taylor's advice to those who disagree with a ministry is to do nothing: “to say nothing gives them no platform” ----in other words: “Do not criticise us.” This also is entirely unbiblical. If anyone has discernment from the Lord in this area, then it is their duty to expose, warn and protect other believers who may be vulnerable to false teaching; only compromisers and hirelings do nothing to protect the sheep from the wolves.

Concerning false teachers, Paul writes: Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith. (Titus 1/13)

As the saying goes: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”

TAYLOR'S WARNING FROM THE LORD

Prior to his "sermon" on Acts 9 on the 21st of April,Taylor begins by giving his local Cwmbran congregation a specific “warning” which he claims is directly from the Lord:

I have been warned by the Lord; the Lord spoke to me very clearly...........this is a warning from the Lord. You need to be in every outpouring meeting because there could be just one meeting, one moment which could change your life forever and you could miss it..............”

The above “warning” (reiterated three times), places a huge burden upon the local congregation to attend every single “outpouring” meeting as well as continuing with their usual church activities which are: “cluster groups, church planting, academy on a Saturday morning and the preaching on a Sunday.” Because this was presented as an unequivocal “Word from the Lord” the congregation are obliged to do as Taylor says; doing otherwise would put them outside God's will. This is of course spiritual blackmail.

A classic sign of cult leaders is that they claim to have direct authority from God so that they can control all aspects of their members lives. They keep their members so busy with meetings and activities that they become easier to control and are prevented from thinking critically and questioning what is actually going on – this strategy is called “time-control”. Cult leaders hate to be criticised, they claim God's authority for everything they say and do and demand complete submission. A person who disagrees with a cult leader is said to be in rebellion to God. Cult leaders attempt to cut their members off from outside influences like family and friends so that their control can be maximized. Any alarm bells going off yet?

There are also mounting concerns that the residents of Victory Outreach are being abused.

http://watchman4wales.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/richard-taylor-andrew-parsons-self.html#comment-form

I have now written follow up articles which address specific issues and doctrinal errors concerning Richard Taylor/Victory Church Cwmbran:

http://eliora.hubpages.com/hub/RICHARD-TAYLOR-THE-FALSE-THEOLOGY-SURROUNDING-THE-WELSH-OUTPOURING-IN-CWMBRAN

http://eliora.hubpages.com/hub/WELSH-OUTPOURING-DECEPTION-AT-CWMBRAN-RICHARD-TAYLOR

http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.oikoumene.org/en/member-churches/europe/united-kingdom/covenanted-churches-within-cytun

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/Registen

http://biblehub.com/romans/12-15.htm

http://www.victorychurch.co.uk/acts-series-part-16-when-god-shows-up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_Together_in_England#Member_churches

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/ttenney.html

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    • profile image

      Richard Gullock 2 years ago

      Both my wife and I followed Victory Church at least two or three times weekly and must confess that we received spiritual blessing from the preaching (although the music was rather loud) For a while, we did not make any contact and very recently we wanted to establish further contact. I do not have any success as there is no straightforward method of engaging on our I-pad. Comments I have read have made me think about former enthusiasm we have possessed. Have we been following false prophets ? Have healing Services been rigged ? Whatever is the matter with the Church ?

      Is not Jesus the Lord and Sovereign of our lives. Him only must we serve and I rejoice in a wonderful Saviour Who has forgiven us through the shed blood on Calvary's Cross. We are only 86 years of age and can testify His Love for us from early childhood.

      By the way, may I recommend Dr Peter Masters, Tabernacle, Elephant and Castle. Sound doctrine and we find much joy in following that site.

      Just a final thought ... Love one another ,,, even as Jesus Loves YOU !

      God Bless you

      Peggy and Richard

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 2 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      Thank you Omegan God bless you tx

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      omegan 2 years ago

      i had dealings with richard taylor years ago and he would shun you if he knew you had done something wrong i have to say he would demand people go to the front of the church and repent of their sins .also i can tesify when i saw him at his former church i could see him telling the elders to watch me but i bet he wants mercy now i feel sorry for his family and church.

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 4 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      thank you mouse - a very interesting contribution.

    • profile image

      mouse 4 years ago

      the mouse is free be very careful out there as here are some wolves ho are willing to eat you alive . and the bethania church in merthyr tydfil is one of the places where andrew parsons is boss but run by les beven a manager of the empire club in pontlottyn with his daughter and mother, his his wife is a worker in a disgusting nursing home in new tredegar what a disgusting episode , a drinking club manager running a church of a disreptible practices (mouse)

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 4 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      Steve thank you it is good to get confirmations and support - I am also setting up my own site - you can contact me on that site - my latest http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/

    • profile image

      Brother Steve 4 years ago

      Thank you so much for speaking the truth about this church. I have been 3 times and can verify a lot of what goes on during the services. It is based on emotionalism. Keep up the good work. Is there some other way I can contact you as I am in the process of starting up my own blog and website.

      In His name,

      Steve

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 4 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      God bless you.... The end time deception will come in the "name of Christ" so that false Christianity will appear to be the real thing. This is a vast subject to reply to here - 2 Thessalonians and many other scriptures refer to it. Antichrist means "in place of Christ" as well as "against Christ". I suggest you research this subject.

    • Disappearinghead profile image

      Disappearinghead 4 years ago from Wales, UK

      I'm not sure I understand what the problem is here. Evangelical Alliance or Churches Together, where's the compromise? Did not Jesus ask the Father that the believers would be one? So in principle why would a believer want separate/separatist denominations when Jesus' desire was that there would be complete unity? The separatist scriptures you quote I do not think are applicable here; they are more about separating from non-believers, not believers who have a different set of interpretations of scripture than others. Denominations are a man made construct anyway, and are the result of each Church group believing they have the correct version of the truth. I notice that Judaism does not react to differences in interpretation in the same dogmatic way. Jews believe that discussion on scriptural doctrinal differences is healthy and as a result does not consist of some 10,000 separate denominations.

      Non-Trinitarianism is not a make or break doctrine, and in fact there is very little in scripture to support the 'Trinity' anyway. As far as I'm aware it was a doctrine invented by the Church some centuries after the apostles.

      I've attended CofE, Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Free Evangelical, and the 'Victory Church' type. From what I can tell, the differences in customer and style of service far outweigh doctrinal differences, and none of these differences are going to result in a heaven/hell destination decision from God.

      I can appreciate that gold cards, special queues, and the pressure to attend all available services is rather creepy, but those that go there are grown ups. They are perfectly free to think for themselves and choose to stay in and watch telly, or go down the pub if they prefer.

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 4 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      Thank you it is good to get some further information - I am continuing my research. God bless you

    • profile image

      Sue Tett 4 years ago

      I was watching Victory Church one Sunday recently when Richard Taylor spoke and said they would be issuing cards to

      'regular suppoerters ' so they can use the Accademy door and avoid the queues

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 4 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      clivers......You asked "Why are the addicts choosing to go to Victory Church?" The addicts and others are ex prisoners living in accommodation provided by Victory Outreach - they have to follow strict programmes and rules. They are obliged to attend all the meetings and do whatever the leadership at Victory say - they have little choice in the matter. This has been confirmed by three separate sources.

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 4 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      Many believers should be praying about this. God bless you Colwyn.

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      ColwynDavies 4 years ago

      To answer one question - where do they get funding from?

      First of all only some of e people are on benefits, most are working people stupid enough to be conned into giving regularly. They even have a "Gold card" type system where the regular givers don't have to queue with the others. They have their own entrance.

      Secondly, The Elim movement have asked and encouraged all of their churches to give to Victory Church to support the work of the so called revival and to be a part of church planting in Wales. (Flock stealing more like it.

    • profile image

      Stevetherev 4 years ago

      I share your concerns about what's happening. Keep on writing and praying

    • profile image

      clivers 4 years ago

      Thank you for answering.

      Very thought provoking. I look forward to your follow up.

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 4 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      Taylor says on the Victory website that most of his congregation are on benefits - I did not say this, he did. I have no problem with anyone being on benefits at all. The point I am making is: If the Taylors' take no money from the church, then where are their finances coming from? We do need to be careful about associations. The Evangelical Alliance are also compromising - Christians need to make the decision whether Jesus Christ comes first, and if He does then to act accordingly. Cults often help vulnerable people initially don't they? I do not buy Taylor's church for one minute. I will be writing more about Taylor and Victory church but I am pushed for time at present. I felt I needed to get this much out at least for the moment. I can't speak about the other churches in the area as I know nothing about them, so it would be unfair for me to comment.

    • profile image

      clivers 4 years ago

      I enjoy your work Eliora.

      I do have a couple of questions about this post though. The remark you made about his church members being on benefits - do you have problems with it?

      Are you going to 'write-off' a church if it, for example says that it is a member of the Evangelical Alliance?

      Why are the addicts choosing to go to Victory Church? Could the other local evangelical churches also be making mistakes despite theological orthodoxy?

      Thanks.

    • ELIORA profile image
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      TREENA GISBORN 4 years ago from LEICESTER ENGLAND

      Thank you lifegate. I want to expand this article but have a few time constraints at the moment. I am praying about the apostate state of the churches, though I also know that it is a judgement from God. God bless you.

    • lifegate profile image

      William Kovacic 4 years ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      ELIORA,

      Being from the USA I never heard of the church or the ministry, but thank you for making me aware. I love how you mention the lack of Scripture on the webisite, and then you post tons of it in defense. I think Romans 3:4 is also applicable - ". . . let God be true, but every man a liar . . . . Thanks for an enlightening hub. Up and awesome!