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Why I Left the Roman Catholic Church

Updated on December 3, 2012
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Why I Left the Roman Catholic Church

This hub is an explanation of contradictions I noticed between the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and the Bible, which led me to ultimately leave the Catholic Church.

The Authority of the Pope

One of Pope’s titles is "Holy Father". That is a title belonging to God alone (John 17:11)! The Pope also claims to have the prerogative to forgive people for their sins. In turn, he has granted that authority to Catholic priests. However, Mark 2:7 says that it is blasphemy for a man to claim he has the right to forgive others for their sins, for only God has that authority. Moreover, the Pope claims to be the head of the church; but Ephesians 5:23 says "Christ is the head of the church."

The Catholic Priesthood

Catholic priests not being able to marry is another issue. The Bible says nothing about it being mandatory for priests not to marry. It says a word or two about choosing to be celibate; but the Catholic Church takes it a step further and mandates celibacy for priests. This has led to many scandals among the Catholic priesthood, from child molestation to fornication, adultery and even alcoholism, I suppose. In Poland, where I now live, Catholic priests have notorious drinking problems. I would probably turn to the bottle too if I could never have sex.

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Only One Mediator

Mary worship and praying to the saints is a violation of the second commandment of the Decalogue, which says not to commit idolatry (Exodus 20:3, 4). We are not to worship anyone or anything but God. Even when John the Revelator attempted to worship an angel, the angel said to him, "See that thou do it not, for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them that keep the sayings of this book. Worship God!" Revelation 22:9. Not to mention, the Bible tells us that there is only one mediator between us and God: "the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5).

In addition, praying to Mary and the saints is really spiritualism—belief in communication with spirits of the dead, which the Bible denounces (Deuteronomy 18:10-12). That is because these spirits are really demons in disguise. Second Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan can even transform himself into an angel of light. Matthew 24:24 intimates that he will go so far as to impersonate Jesus on earth near the very end of time.

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Biblical Baptism

Infant baptism and baptism by sprinkling is next on the agenda. There is no instance of infant baptism in the Bible. What’s more, the whole concept of infant baptism is unbiblical. Baptism is a decision believers make to declare their faith in Jesus (Romans 6:3-7). No infant has the understanding to make such a decision. Also, whenever someone got baptized in the Bible, it was by immersion. Take Jesus, for example. Matthew 3:16 says that when He was baptized, He came up "out of the water." If we are to follow the example of Jesus, that is how we will get baptized too.

When I got baptized after accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I told my Catholic family about my decision. My mother asked, "But why? You were already baptized as an infant." I said, "I don’t even remember that. It doesn’t count."

Have the practices of the Catholic Church ever made you question it?

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You did What?

The Catholic Church has fiddled with Scripture. The fourth commandment says that the Sabbath is “the seventh day" of the week (Exodus 20:8-11), which is Saturday. With this knowledge, I asked a Catholic minister, "Why do we keep Sunday holy as the Sabbath when the Bible says it is Saturday?" The reply I got was, "Because the Roman Catholic Church changed it, that’s why." I questioned, "Why?" I got the answer, "Out of convenience."

That did not sit with me well at all! Deuteronomy 4:2 was ringing in my ears: "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." How dare men suppose that they can change the word of God! I thought. That was the last straw for me. After that I left the Catholic Church, never to return.

After reading the Bible, I found that the Roman Catholic Church was not for me. The Pope claims prerogatives that belong to God alone, the priesthood has been scandalized as a result of being forced to conform to rigid celebacy guidelines, mediation through avenues other than Jesus are offered, and unbiblical practices abound.

All Scripture references are from the 21st Century KJV Bible.

More Christian Hubs by Greg Sereda

My response to a massively viral You Tube poem by Jefferson Bethke explaining that Jesus came to abolish religion. Rather, Jesus came to establish the religion of Christianity! Read the hub to learn more!

I have some Catholic friends with a habit of praying to the cross in the name of Jesus. This is the same thing that the Israelites did in the wilderness with the golden calf. The only difference is, now believers are using a cross instead. Does God accept such worship? Read the hub to find out!

"I don't see any evidence of God's existence; and I have everything I want out of life: a job, a home, a family. What do I need God for?" I was confronted with similar arguments. Find out how I responded to them by reading this hub!

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    • profile image

      jrz 2 years ago

      wow...lots of good comments here....enjoyed reading them.....

    • Felipe717 profile image

      Felipe717 4 years ago from Philadelphia, PA

      Hey MaryandMerry, your comment,

      "Catholics do not Worship Mary. They Pray to her. It is like when you go to your mom to ask her to help you, and you show respect for her.", is what I always heard as a Catholic growing up but it is incorrect. What Catholics don't realize is that prayer is a form of worship. Webster's Dictionary defines prayer as "an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought". That was one of the realizations that convinced me to leave the Catholic Church.

    • MaryandMerry profile image

      MaryandMerry 4 years ago

      Catholics do not Worship Mary. They Pray to her.

      It is like when you go to your mom to ask her to help you, and you show respect for her.

      Mary is the Mother of us all and always will be.

      Thank you for your time.

    • MaryandMerry profile image

      MaryandMerry 4 years ago

      Your question, (Have the practices of the Catholic Church ever made you question it?) is very negative.

      God wants us to question what we believe in order to grow closer to him.

      You can not truely say you believe in God and CHOOSE to follow him if you do not know him.

    • MaryandMerry profile image

      MaryandMerry 4 years ago

      I have read your hub and will say this.

      You are confusing Prayer and Worship, they are two very different things and have two very different meanings.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 4 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      shofarcall - I completely agree with you about spending quality time with God and how that is greatly lacking in most churches. Thank you for your comment.

    • shofarcall profile image

      shofarcall 4 years ago

      Great hub Greg. It is not often that we get to hear the testimony of someone who has exited from the RCC. Praise God. Although I am not an SDA, I do keep the Sabbath because the Lord called me to do so a few years ago. And the Lord is so faithful and has given me many revelations during those times. Besides all the differences of opinion that have been expressed.....It is essential that we set aside and have QUALITY time with the Lord. Where nothing else interferes. This is now sadly lacking in most Christian communities. Even "Sunday" is no longer set aside as a day of worship. Mostly, it is a quick trip to church and then on with life as per normal. Relationships suffer if we neglect them. If we ignore our spouses or our children there would soon be enmity in the house. It is no different regarding our relationship with Jesus. We need to spend time talking/praying/pondering/laughing with Him, or our relationship with Him will suffer. Thank you for being courageous in putting this hub out there and being prepared to take the flak, in Jesus's name.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 4 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      MyBell23 -Thank you for your comment, my friend.

    • MyBell23 profile image

      MyBell23 4 years ago

      Great article. I agree with all of it. I used to attend a Catholic Church as a child. Went to Pentacostal as teen. Ultimately found my way to Christ but had to seek HIS WORD and not the churches beliefs...especially those that were NOT biblically based. I am grateful for some basic beliefs, but needed to seek out the truth via His Word.

      A relationship with Christ is what is important. It is not about rules, regulations, or how "good" we are. It is about what HE has done and if we accept HIM as Savior.

      Thanks for this great post, Greg.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 4 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      A white Christmas looks nice on TV and all; or when you're looking through the window. It's not too fun when you're outside in the freezing weather, though.

    • aka-dj profile image

      aka-dj 4 years ago from Australia

      My wife has had a childhood dream of having at least one "White Christmas" in her life. We hope to one day make that happen in either Canada, or US. I doubt it will be in Europe, but I won't discount it.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 4 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      It's snowing a little bit right now, with temperatures around freezing. Between now and March, temperatures could drop down to 30 degrees below zero. Not really looking forward to that...

    • aka-dj profile image

      aka-dj 4 years ago from Australia

      Like? It's home. I have travelled a lot, and I'm glad this is my home.

      Yes, it is hot, but not any more than most summers. In Sydney, it can go from around 24ºC to around 34ºC in summer.

      Currently we are in summer.

      How's Europe? Much snow?

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 4 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      aka-dj - Nice. How do you like it there? Is it really hot there?

    • aka-dj profile image

      aka-dj 4 years ago from Australia

      Australia. Have been here since 1965, with the exception of 4 yrs in the US, during which time I served in the USAF, mostly at Langley.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 4 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      aka-dj - Pleased to make your acquaintance, brother; and thank you for the comment. Where do you live now?

    • aka-dj profile image

      aka-dj 4 years ago from Australia

      Thanks Greg.

      My path was very similar to yours. I left the RCC after being Born Again. I just couldn't reconcile these, and other differences between their teachings and the Word of God.

      Pleased to meet you.

      I was born, not far from where you now live. The former Yugoslavia.

      DJ.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      Nina - About the authority of the Pope: I hope you are aware that there is no valid historic evidence that the Apostle Peter was the first pope. As a matter of fact, everything we have about Peter is quite the contrary. He was a minister to the Jews (Gal. 2:7-8); and it was the Apostle Paul, not Peter, who endeavered to establish the church in Rome (Rom. 1:11). So that pretty much kills that point.

      About the celibacy of the priesthood. The scripture that you quoted is not evidence for mandatory priestly celibacy at all. It speaks about those who became celibate by choice. Catholic priests have no choice in the matter of celibacy.

      Not to mention, the oldest law forbidding celebacy dates back to the 2nd century. But that seems to have been highly disregarded because priests continued getting married until well into the 11th century.1

      You say that mandatory celibacy has done a lot of good? Open your eyes, sister. You don't see all of the pedophelia and child molestation that has resulted? Not to mention, the priests that continue having sexual relations with women, anyway. I don't know what country you live in, but I live in a predominantly Catholic country; and pedophelia, homosexuality, fornication and adultery in the priesthood is well know.

      The Bible has something to say about this matter, as well: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, ..." - 1 Timothy 4:1-3

      About Catholics not worshipping Mary or the saints: Yes, they do. When you bow down to statues and pictures of Mary and the saints and pray to them, you are worshipping them. That is a form of worship. It's also idolatry. I'm sorry to break it to you, sister. I know the Catholic Church tells you that is not a form of worship; but that would not be the first time they lied to somone; and I'm sure it won't be the last.

      About your rant at the end: It is presumptuos for you to say that the traditions that 2:15 mentions were not biblical. Just because they were not written in the epistle to the Thessalonians does not mean they are not mentioned somewhere else in the Scripture. The Bible is a big book, you know.

      About your statement regarding where the Holy Trinity can be found in the Bible: 1 John 5:7.

      About the Bible being compiled by the Catholic Church. Long before that, most or all of the books of the New Testament were recognized as divinely inspired. As early as 100 AD, New Testament scriptures were quoted from. In 326, Athanasius, biship of Alexandria, mentions all of the New Testament books.2

      Not to mention, the Catholic Church of that time is not the same Catholic Church of today. The early Catholic chruch was a pure Christian Church. Now it has been corrupted by Paganism; and Pagan practices have been masked with Christian names to hide the fact. It does look like the Catholic Chruch has a part to play in the compilation of the New Testament. I admit that. But that does not make it above the Bible. They would like for people to believe that; but nobody is above God.

      The Bible is called the Word of God, not the Word of the Catholic Church, for a reason. That would be like Jesus telling the apostles that the Old Testament is subject to the authority of the seventy scholars of Alexandria, Egypt, because they translated it into a language Jesus and the apostles could use.

      Funny how you didn't address the fact that the Catholic Church tampered with the Ten Commandments and changed the Sabbath. Have a nice day. God bless you.

      Sources:

      1. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_the_Roman_Catho...

      2. http://www.bible.ca/cath-bible-origin.htm

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 5 years ago from Burlington

      I was raised a protestant, and my wife as well. She grew up in Saxony only a half hour from Martin Luthers home town. We both left the protestent church and follow God in our hearts.

    • profile image

      Nina 5 years ago

      "To be deep in history, is to cease to be a Protestant"- Blessed John Henry Newman, Protestant convert to Catholic faith

      Plus may I recommend the early Church fathers? Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria...all men who lived in the few 3-4 centuries. Also the Didache, aka "The Teaching of the 12 Apostles", dated to the 2nd century, vividly describes how the early Church celebrated the sacraments, especially Baptism and the Mass. Thanks for reading my rambling, if you did! Have a nice day! :)

    • profile image

      Nina 5 years ago

      I won't bother with the last two. But I will put forward some food for thought.

      2 Thess 2:15: "Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us." Wait, that means I'm saying that there are things that were taught by the apostles that weren't written down? Yup. and passed orally by the apostles and handed down through the church by tradition. Plus ppl couldn't read back then anyway.

      Yes, all scripture is profitable for teaching, etc...but it doesn't say ONLY scripture. I mean, where is the Holy Trinity in the bible?

      Btw, the first books of the bible weren't written down until well after Jesus's ascension. I mean, the Bible wasn't officially compiled until about 400AD by...the Catholic Church! So the Church technically existed before the bible.

    • profile image

      Nina 5 years ago

      Sigh...we do not worship Mary or the saints (although admittedly some few Catholics may take devotion too far. There is only one mediator, Jesus Christ. But the saints are merely our friends in heaven. You ask your friends to pray for you when you are experiencing difficulties, no? We do that too! To our friends in heaven - men and women who have lived extroadinarily holy lives on earth for the glory of God. We ask them for their prayers and help! You have pictures of family members around your house? Well the saints and Jesus's mother (our mother through adoption) are part of our family as well! Besides, Jesus being a good Jew, honored his father and mother. And he listened to Mary (think the wedding feast at Cana)!

    • profile image

      Nina 5 years ago

      Celibacy: "For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven." - Matt 19:12. Eunach was someone who gave up his sexuality through castration...in this passage, Jesus refers to men who will willingly do that (not castrating obviously) for the Kingdom of God. Even St. Paul says it is better for a man to be single, so his interests are not divided between his duties to God and family. The best present example I can think of are marraiges of pastors who are falling apart behind the scenes because of neglect, children of pastors who rebel because they feel a tremendous pressure to be perfect..this is not fair for them. Whereas at my parish, my priest is available 24/7 for spiritual direction because he has given up his life, has become a slave for Christ and at the complete service of his sheep. His interestes are not divided. And his not alone...in Catholic theology, the priest has become married to Christ and his church.

    • profile image

      Nina 5 years ago

      The Authority of the Pope: "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it." Matt 16:17-18.

      "Peter" in Aramaic is kepha, which means rock. Since Jesus spoke Aramaic, this would have sounded something like: "You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church." (In Greek, it's petros (Peter), petra (rock) - merely accounting for the difference in masculine in the feminine petra". And thanks for quoting the Pharisees in Mark 2:7 and taking it out of context. :)

      "And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." John 20: 22-23. Say what??? Did Jesus just pass on that authority to his apostles???

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      Praise God, brother!

    • Felipe717 profile image

      Felipe717 5 years ago from Philadelphia, PA

      Great Hub! For a long time I resisted leaving the Catholic Church but God's word set me free. Ephesians 2:8-9 helped me see the truth in his word.

    • ro-jo-yo profile image

      ro-jo-yo 5 years ago

      But one thing to understand is, that all Christian churches are false, they are worshiping a false God because they worship Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the wrong name. The true name is Yehowshuwa and he was the Messiah, not the Christ. Also the SDA claim that Jesus created everything, whereas it states in the fourth commandment that Yehowah created heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them.

      The name Yehowah is written in the original Hebrew scripts which was incorrectly replaced with LORD in most bible versions.

      8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy . 9 Six days shalt thou labour , and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of Yehowah, thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days Yehowah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore Yehowah blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

      We are to seek the Almighty first

      Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek Yehowah thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul

      Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is , and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

      Yehowshuwa the Messiah stated that we must seek his Father Yehowah first.

      John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    • profile image

      Idiongomary 5 years ago

      A new level of insanity!

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      Christian - Thank you, brother. God bless you.

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      CHRISTIAN 5 years ago

      God bless for your testimony, it is a good one to be able to reach Catholics with the truth.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      CJ - Sledgehammer:

      If there is nothing more that needs to be said than what Jesus than the apostles said, then why did God appoint pastors in the church? They sure do a lot of talking, if you ask me.

      You said that Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets, making it sound like the gift of prophecy came to an end with Him, but not according to the New Testament (1 Corinthians 12:28). Christ fulfilled the prophets in fulfilling their predictions about the Messiah. However, prophecy did not come to an end there. How do you explain the book of Revelation? It is full of prophecy.

      I agree with you that many abuses come from false prophets, but that is only because the devil knows that God gave us a true prophet for our time, Ellen G. White; and the devil has used false prophets to make a mockery out of the prophetic gift so as to cause people to disregard any claim anyone makes about being a prophet, thus leading people to reject the gift of prophecy in Mrs. White.

      About the gift of prophecy being the discerning vision of the Holy Spirit: 1 Corinthians 12 speaks about spiritual gifts and compares them to parts of the body. Logically, the gift of prophecy acts as the eyes of the body of Christ because it helps us see into the future. Without it, we are spiritually blind.

      The value of the gift of prophecy cannot be understated, as is illustrated by Amos 3:7: "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, unless He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets."

      Do not try to twist my words around. If a church relies solely upon the Word of God as their source of inspiration, they will accept the gift of prophecy, because the Bible endorses it. Not to mention, all true prophets will speak according to the Word of the Lord, because that is the test of a true prophet.

      You're not being offensive in saying that the Adventist movement relies upon Ellen White's prophetic gift for guidance and direction, you are being ignorant. Because the final authority for the Adventist Church is the Word of God. Ellen White just so happened to be a prophet of His; and the Bible says, "... Believe in the LORD your God; so shall ye be established. Believe His prophets; so shall ye prosper." 2 Chronicles 20:20.

      I'm sorry if you have a problem believing the Bible in its entirety because you reject what it says about the gift of prophecy. Nevertheless, don't try to twist it around to make it sound like Adventists are doing something wrong in believing Ellen White was a prophet. The fault is not with them, the fault is with you; because you don't want to believe and follow the Bible all of the way.

      You ask, "What can prophets say that hasn't already been said by Christ and his apostles?" How about explaining the book of Revelation? How about showing where we live in the grand scheme of the end-times? How about identifying the anti-christ? Only someone with prophetic insight could do that. Ellen White did that very well in her book, The Great Controversy.

      You keep accusing me of being under the Old Covenant. By that charge, I see you don't have an accurate understanding of the difference between the Old and the New Covenants. That doesn't surprise me, however; because that's not the only thing I see that you lack in your understanding of the Word.

      You said, "The Apostle Paul also instructed true Christians to rebuke and cast out any who come preaching a different gospel or unsound doctrine." But how can you cast yourself out?

      God bless.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      Thanks Dubuquedogtrainer.

    • Dubuquedogtrainer profile image

      Dubuquedogtrainer 5 years ago from Dubuque, Iowa

      Good for you, and thank you for speaking up so that others might understand. Voted up!

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      CJ Sledgehammer 5 years ago

      Hi, Greg:

      You said, "I question churches that DON'T have the gift of prophecy, because the gift of prophecy is the discerning vision of the Holy Spirit."

      -------------

      I believe many abuses come from so-called "prophets" and I believe Jesus and His disciples said everything that needed to be said.

      In fact, there is nothing more that needs to be said. Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets and finished His tenure on Earth by saying on the cross, "It is finished"!

      You go on, "the gift of prophecy is the discerning vision of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, a church without the gift of prophecy is spiritually blind."

      ---------

      Please show me in The New Testament where that is stated.

      Am I hearing you correctly? Are you saying that if a church relies solely upon the Word of God as their only source of inspiration, that they are spiritually blind?! Sure sounds like it.

      Honestly, and I do not mean to be offensive, but I don't place credence in a movement whose very existence relies upon an "end-time" prophet for guidance and direction...period!!!

      What can they possibly say that hasn't already been said by Christ and His Apostles? If they just repeat what Christ and His Apostles have already said, then what's the point of their prophecy?

      And, that is exactly my point: Those movements who rely upon end-time prophets for guidance rely upon the new revelations of their "prophets", which, in almost all cases, departs from Biblical doctrine in one way or another - though their loyal converts would beg to differ.

      You further state: "I'm still open to the truth. Unfortunately, my friend, that is not what I am seeing in your posts."

      --------

      Funny, but I'm not the one trying to be a Jew or child of Israel and thus place myself under the yoke of the Old Covenant.

      I am also not the one who belongs to a movement headed by an "end time" prophetess, who, like Joseph Smith, Jr, believes all Christian churches are bad, except for theirs.

      I am also not the one who relies upon new revelations from "prophets" to guide my faith, when I believe the Word of God is more than sufficient on its own.

      The Bible also warns us not to add to nor take away from Scripture, but isn't that exactly what these end-time prophets do? They want to make a name for themselves, so they come up with their own theology and attempt to make the Bible say things that suits their purposes.

      The Apostle Paul also instructed true Christians to rebuke and cast out any who come preaching a different gospel or unsound doctrine.

      The Bible also instructs true Christians to test the spirits to see if they are from God. You should try this some time. :0)

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      Brother Sledgehammer - Where do you get that the SDA's don't believe the New Covenant is in effect? Maybe your idea of the New Covenant...

      The SDA Church was not started by one individual. It does NOT proclaim the prophet Ellen White as its inspiration and guide. We have the Bible for that, thank you very much. However, Ellen White obviously had the gift of prophecy, which did greatly help the church to be steered in the right direction, according to Scripture. You do believe in the gift of prophecy, don't you? The New Testament validates it as a gift for the church.

      Do you even have a prophet in your church? Or is your church lacking in this? What church are you from, anyway? I question churches that DON'T have the gift of prophecy, because the gift of prophecy is the discerning vision of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, a church without the gift of prophecy is spiritually blind.

      I've read many of Ellen White's writings, and I see them to be in harmony with the Bible. Maybe they're not in harmony with your ideas of the Bible. If that's the case. I'm sorry about that.

      The KJV Bible is NOT a favorite of cults. Where do you come up with this stuff? It's the other way around. Modern translations are the ones we need to watch out for. Like the NIV, which was translated by Wescott and Hort, self-porclaimed spiritualists.

      I'm still open to the truth. Unfortunately, my friend, that is not what I am seeing in your posts. It seems like you just want to argue without conceding to the facts of the Bible. Like when you went on about the Sabbath, and I gave you abounding evidence in support of it. Instead of conceding to these facts, you just ranted about the Adventist Church, which is full of inaccuracies.

      God bless :)

    • profile image

      CJ Sledgehammer 5 years ago

      Well, done, Greg!

      You asked, "Is that enough Scripture for you?"

      --------

      As a matter of fact, it seems I can never get enough. :0)

      You suggest I: "Become a Seventh-day Adventist,"

      --------

      I'm afraid, I cannot allow myself to do that. The SDA church has too many things in common with Mormonism for me to be comfortable such as:

      1) Strict dietary rules and regulations.

      2) Believe they are the only TRUE Christian church.

      3) Believes every denomination needs to convert to their movement.

      4) Joseph Smith said that Mormons were the only real Jews and the SDA doesn't believe the New Covenant is in effect, hence they continue observing the Old Covenant, especially observing the Sabbath Day, which is what the Jews had done.

      5) Both religious movements came on the scene in history at just about the same time, give or take 40 years.

      6) They both were started by ONE individual.

      7) They both have a self-proclaimed "prophet" as their inspiration and guide.

      8) Joseph Smith (LDS) claimed to see visions, receive revelations, witness spirit manifestations and hear voices. On the other hand, Ellen G. White (SDA) claimed to hear voices and receive revelations.

      9) Both Ellen G. White and Joseph Smith were wrong on many counts and contradict the Bible.

      10) Both the LDS church and SDA augment Bible reading with their own publications based on their prophet's revelations and writings.

      11) Both must adhere to a gospel different than the one given by Christ, one that is centered on works.

      12) They both like to use the King James version - the favorite translation of cults.

      I am sure the parallels could go on, but I think I said enough for you to understand my reservations.

      I've got to go for now, but I will be back and comment some more. Before I go, I just want to commend you for your willingness to engage in friendly debate. I hope you are still open to Godly truth, regardless of where it may lead.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      CJ Sledgehammer - Followers of God before Jesus' time only weren't called Christians until after the arrival of Jesus Christ, but they were just as much Christian in the sense of the Word - followers of Jesus, since Jesus is God.

      Did Adam and Even keep the Sabbath? Of course. You said yourself that you are aware that God instituted the Sabbath in the Garden of Eden, and the Bible tells us that the Ten Commandments (which the Sabbath is a part of) have always existed, and will always exist: "... all His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness". - Psalm 111:7, 8

      An example of this is when Potiphar's wife attempted to commit adultery with Joseph in the book of Genesis. Joseph said, "How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?" Genesis 39:9. He recognized adultery as a sin, which the Ten Commandments point out. If there had been no Law back then, there would have been no sin and adultery would have been okay.

      You said Adventists use the Old Testament to state their case. What do you want? First you told me to show you some scriptures in support of the Sabbath and I did. Now you're not happy that I used the Old Testament to do it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Instead of dancing around the issue, why can't you just admit the fact that the Bible supports the seventh-day Sabbath?

      However, I am not ashamed of quoting the Old Testament. It makes up three-fifths of the Word of God. Even the New Testament tells us to learn from the Old Testament:

      "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly equipped for all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

      Moreover, the New Testament has a lot to say about the Sabbath:

      1. The seventh-day Sabbath is the true Lord's Day:

      "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath day." - Matthew 12:8

      2. Jesus expects Christians to be keeping the Sabbath in the end time, before the great tribulation:

      "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." - Matthew 24:20, 21

      3. Jesus was a Sabbath keeper, told us He did not come to change it, and expects us to follow His example:

      "And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up to read." - Luke 4:16

      "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven." - Matthew 5:17-19

      "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, ... teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." - Matthew 28:19, 20

      4. Christians kept the Sabbath after Jesus' death.

      "And they returned and prepared spices and ointments, and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." - Luke 23:56

      Obviously these early Christians didn't see any thing in Jesus' teachings that abolished the Sabbath, or else they would stopped observing it. But they kept on going, without breaking stride.

      5. Paul kept the Sabbath with non-Jewish converts.

      "And on the Sabbath, we went out of the city by a riverside where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down and spoke unto the women who resorted thither. And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God, heard us." - Acts 16:13, 14

      Note: Lydia is not a Jewish name.

      6. Paul preached to the gentiles on the Sabbath.

      "And when the Jews had gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath." - Acts 13:42

      7. Speaking of the seventh-day, Paul stated:

      "There remaineth therefore a rest for the people of God." - Hebrews 4:9

      Note: He recognized that the Sabbath had not been done away with.

      8. John the Revelator kept the Sabbath some 60 years after Jesus' resurrection:

      "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, ..." - Revelation 1:10

      9. Obedience to the Ten Commandments (including the fourth commandment to keep the Sabbath, of course) through Jesus is a requirement for Heaven:

      "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." - Revelation 22:14

      "And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey Him" - Hebrews 5:9

      Is that enough Scripture for you? I'm exhausted. Become a Seventh-day Adventist, they follow the truth. God bless you.

      I should have made this into a hub.

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      CJ Sledgehammer 5 years ago

      Thanks for your reply, Greg.

      You said, "Christians have ALWAYS kept Saturday holy as the Sabbath. Ever since the beginning of time, since the first Sabbath on the seventh day of creation, there has not stopped being an observer of this holy day. Anyone with a competent knowledge of religious history will attest to that fact."

      ------------

      Well, my knowledge of religious history tells me that Christianity did not exist until a little after 30 A.D., so Christians could not have been keeping the Sabbath holy "since the beginning of time" as you assert.

      I also noticed, over the years, that Seventh-Day Adventists usually stick to the Old Testament in an attempt to prove their case, and you did not deviate from that standard. Never once did you stray into the territory of the New Covenant, namely, the New Testament.

      I will admit that my mental faculties are a bit off-line at the moment, but I read nowhere in the Book of Genesis where God commanded Adam or Eve to keep the Sabbath day holy. The Almighty did set it aside, but I do not see any mention that Adam and Eve were mandated to follow it. He did set it aside to be used later by Moses and the children of Israel.

      As always feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but please use Biblical passages so I can learn from the experience. :0)

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      CJ Sledgehammer - The Almighty did, in fact, impose the Sabbath on other races. The seventh day of creation was the first Sabbath. Adam, Eve and God kept it. Adam and Eve were not Jewish.

      Even in the Ten Commandments it tells us that the Sabbath wasn't only for the Jews: "... the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy STRANGER that is within thy gates." Exodus 20:10. God wanted the foreigners that lived among the Jews to keep the Sabbath too.

      God repeated this in Isaiah 56:6, 7: "Also the sons of the stranger that join themselves to the LORD to serve Him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant, even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer ..."

      Isaiah 66:22, 23 says we will keep the Sabbath in God's new earth: "'For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me,' saith the LORD, 'so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me," saith the LORD.'"

      Christians have ALWAYS kept Saturday holy as the Sabbath. Ever since the beginning of time, since the first Sabbath on the seventh day of creation, there has not stopped being an observer of this holy day. Anyone with a competent knowledge of religious history will attest to that fact.

      The Bible has much to say in support of the seventh-day Sabbath, but it never once calls Sunday "holy", "the Sabbath", or "the Lord's Day" (the seventh-day Sabbath is the true Lord's Day). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

      So the question should be not, "When do Seventh-day Adventists claim this epoch of events happened?", but rather, "How can so many Christians keep Sunday holy as the Sabbath, or completely disregard Saturday as the Sabbath, when Scripture is so clear on this matter?"

    • profile image

      CJ Sledgehammer 5 years ago

      Greg:

      Thank you for your speedy reply and for your willingness to reason together. I do not claim to have all the answers to life, but I consistently seek the truth with due diligence. :0)

      I deeply honor, revere, and respect the 10 Commandments and believe it is a moral code and yard-marker, but I also know who it was given to and why.

      My friend and brother, can you please explain to me why the Almighty did not impose the Sabbath Day on any other race, religion, or nation except for the children of Israel? I think the Bible is clear that this law was given directly to Moses to present to the chilren of Israel, whom He had just led out of captivity from Egypt.

      And, since the Almighty dealt almost exclusively with the Nation of Israel, and to some extent those nations and peoples interacting with them, why did He not impose the Sabbath Day on the Gentiles? And, since He did not, when do the Seventh-Day Adventists claim this epoch turn of events happened?

      I will patiently await your reply.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      CJ Sledgehammer - You bring up some good points, except I think you are a little misinformed about the Sabbath commandment. Early Christians never stopped keeping the Sabbath on Saturday. Read the book of acts. Lol. There is no record in the New Testament of Christians honoring Sunday as the Lord's Day. They may have gotten together on it sometimes for worship, but it was not different than getting together for worship on any other day of the week.

      The Sabbath is a part of the Ten Commandments, which the New Covenant did not do away with. That's like saying we don't have to keep the Ten Commandments anymore. That just makes no sense.

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      CJ Sledgehammer 5 years ago

      Another good Hub, Greg, but you're probably getting bored of hearing me say that. :0)

      Indeed. The Lord said that is not good for a man to be alone. So, why does the Catholic priesthood have to abstain from marriage?

      Did it ever bother you that the Catholic church was selling indulgences to its people so they could get their loved ones out of Purgatory?

      Did it bother you that the Catholic church discouraged its adherents from reading the Bible?

      Did it bother you that the Catholic church was responsible for murdering over 50 million people over 200 years of the Great Inquisition?

      Greg, I know you are a Seventh-Day Adventist and this may be a stumbling block for you, but early Christians choosing to hold formal worship services on Sundays had nothing to do with the Catholic church, but had everything to do with the fact that after Christ's resurrection from the dead, the early Christians began to meet on the first day of the week (Sunday), as did the Apostles. Please read the Book of Acts.

      The early Christian church knew the old covenant was done away with and the New Covenant was now in effect. To keep honoring the Sabbath of the old covenant is to place one's self in bondage to the old covenant and places one's self under the law once again. And, to live under the law, one must die under the law.

      Please free yourself from that burden, my brother, because it is not a yoke you want to carry into the afterlife.

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      Yzel - I'm glad you liked it.

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      yzel 5 years ago

      nice..

    • Greg Sereda profile image
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      Greg Sereda 5 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

      Reginald Boswell - Thanks brother! Pleas do "vote up" and share it if you like it!

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      Reginald Boswell 5 years ago from Alabama

      Good Hub!