The problems of evolution, Darwin and the Giraffe

Charles Darwin As He Is Usually Imagined

A well known face
A well known face
Erasmus Darwin, grandfather to Charles.
Erasmus Darwin, grandfather to Charles.

The fathers of the evolution theory.

Mention evolution to most people and the first person they will think of is Charles Darwin.

True enough he is the best known evolutionist, and his theories are those most taught in schools etc. Many others had already had thoughts about where life came from and how.

Although not an evolutionist himself, Pierre Maupertuis was writng his thoughts on heredity and how animals may change over time as early as 1745.

Erasmus Darwin was Charles grandfather and wrote about his thoughts on how all life could have come from one common source.

But Charles theory has now become the accepted idea, here I am not trying to prove him wrong or right, just to point out some problems that won't lie down and die!

The chicken and the egg.

Hoorah!! This year British scientists solved the riddle of which came fiirst, Or did they?

They found a protein called ovocledidin-17 in the eggshell and then found the same thing in the chickens ovaries. It seems to be used to speed up the formation of a hard eggshell.

Hence, obviously the chicken came first, except where did the chicken come from then?

Ah ha, previous birds you may say, but where did they come from? Egg laying reptiles? True a lot off reptiles lay soft shelled eggs, but which came first the reptile or the egg.

Sorry the question just rolls right on

Lanarks giraffes

The giraffes get longer necks the more they stretch them
The giraffes get longer necks the more they stretch them

The giraffes neck

A less well known question mark hangs around the giraffes neck.

According to natural selection it grew over time so the animals could reach f urther. This makes perfectly good sense, or so it seems.

Yet again there are problems, one of which is that no fossils of giraffes with shorter necks have ever been found, only full sized giraffes!

Another point is that the giraffe has a special way of controlling its blood pressure to its head. Without this as it lifts it head the pressure drops and the animal passes out.

As it reaches down to drink the exact opposite happens too much blood to the brain.

Without this ability the giraffe couldn't have a long neck. With a short neck it didn't need it. It's almost the chicken and egg again!

Darwins giraffes

Note the animals with shorter necks die out
Note the animals with shorter necks die out

The problem of the horse

 The horse has for years been taught as coming from a small three toed creature.

This is wrong. The name of the dawn horse Eohippus had previously been Hyracothrium, so named in 1841.

The fossil record shows that these three toed "horses" actually lived alongside the one toed Equus in America.

Eohippus

From an apelike ancestor or something else?

It is often said that we come from apes and our apelike movements and looks are used to try to prove this.
But one of our most common "extras" turns out to be a nipple, now these extra nipples run in lines down the body like in dogs and cats. So are we descended from them instead?

After all apes have two!


Alfred Russel Wallace

Ever heard of this man? probably not he has become the lost face of evolution theory.

He was doing in depth field studies while Darwin sat in comfort at home.

Poor Alfred actually sent Darwin his theories to look at before Darwin had published his own, which he then did pretty soon after.

There is a Really good BBC programme about Wallace that has just been made, please see the link below

Conclusion?

I do not believe that the argument Creation or Evolution will ever end, and that Intelligent Design, is just another way of arguing the same old points.

Scientists will always be trying to prove each other wrong.

But I do believe that Darwin was far from any answer, and his theories should not be treated as fact!

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Comments 23 comments

Highvoltagewriter profile image

Highvoltagewriter 5 years ago from Savannah GA.

Great article and you hit some of the points I look at in my own hubs and yet you focus on other things I chose not to. I like the fact that you kept it simple and short! (I tend to make my own hubs wordy).


gconeyhiden 4 years ago

you may have problems w the very complex theory of evolution but that doesn't really say anything except there is still very much to learn on the subject. you could have just as easily picked good examples of how evolution works but for whatever reason you chose not to do so. creationism has been around for thousands of years far longer then the "NEW" theories of evolution yet creationism still doesn't make any more sense really in its own light. the basic premise for evolutionary theory has not been seriously challenged except by those playing very loose with the evidence. the fact that it's still a theory doesn't mean it wont be proven over time.


EarthAsWeKnewIt profile image

EarthAsWeKnewIt 4 years ago from Earth

Do you have any thoughts regarding recent findings on epigenetics, that activate and deactivate different genes based on environmental and emotional conditions? These seem to almost support a lamarckian understanding of evolution, where gene expression can morph within one generation, and not through mutation.

http://earthasweknewit.org


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 4 years ago from Northamptonshire Author

gconeyhiden, there may be many cases in which evolution works, as you have said, but the title was The problems of Evolution, and they were the things I wrote about. Evolution is a theory and any theory is allowed to be scrutinised. Thanks for your comment, Carolyn


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 4 years ago from Northamptonshire Author

earthasweknewit, avery interesting website

No have not really looked at epigetics till now, am putting another link or two on here for that. Sort of reminds me of my hub on Eugenics.


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 4 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

hi, a biologist has a hub and has corrected me somewhat and i quote...evolution is A Fact explained by evolution theories. in other words there is unrefutable scientific proof that evolution IS taking place. there is still much to learn but no one can prove it isn't taking place and the opposite is now true. please look into this. if you do you will find great hubs here more detailed then mine. he bible explains nothing properly about how life has formed.


Insane Mundane profile image

Insane Mundane 4 years ago from Earth

Everything evolves and adapts, of course, but the actual "Theory of Evolution" seems more and more like a religion, as I delve further into it.

Anyway, Darwin borrowed most of the core components that founded the Theory of Evolution from others, as he has obviously retained way too much credit for this silly belief, to begin with.

Ha! I thought it is funny that you brought up the age-old question about the chicken and the egg.

I'm glad that you also mentioned about the giraffes and horses, as the Whale debate is often included among many others, when concerning this theory. Evolution is not a science, that's for sure...

I'm more interested in boggling the ones who think they spawned from a single-cell amoeba, but anyway...

Well, I'll probably do a hub in a week or so, when I find the time (been busy elsewhere, of late), that addresses a question that no evolutionist that I have ever met or talked to, has ever been able to answer. The ones here that I ran across on this site, just simply delete you from their hub's comment field, so I took the hint and figured I'd write my own silly hub in due time, not that I wanted to resort to that; blah!


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 4 years ago from Northamptonshire Author

have been busy with a few problems myself. Glad to see you agree that a theory is just what it says a theory, not a fact, look forward to reading your hubs


CommonSense 3 years ago

Obviously there was a chicken-like creature and it evolved an egg-laying system, then it laid a perfectly formed egg on the first try. Evolution had no room for error on that one. If the first egg that dropped out wasn't able to hatch and grow to maturity, that would have been the end of that mutation.


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 3 years ago from Northamptonshire Author

The egg laying system is very complicated, in birds it also involves the digestive tract


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 3 years ago from Northamptonshire Author

Thankyou for your comment


ceh4702 profile image

ceh4702 3 years ago

My point is who cares and so what? I don't think it matters. All I see is skeletons of dead animals. That only proves extinction. Extinction is quite common, and it is more likely. It is kind of silly to try to convice people of creation when they have closed their mind to the possibility of the existence of God. I personally believe in Creation. However, I have a different view of what creation was and how long it took. So in creation, was everything created in 6 days? I don't think it says that in the Bible. At any rate evolution is kind of impossible to prove or disprove. Can you create life? Can you build a giraffe?

So are tall people more evolved or less evolved? We can breed horses to be both larger and smaller. That is just a matter of selection and survival of the fittest. I think this is an interesting question. Maybe one culture prized the strength and fighting ability, while another culture prized peace and non-violence. In different cultures maybe diff things were important. So the selection and survival process was different.


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 3 years ago from Northamptonshire Author

I feel the same about the six biblical days, if people looked into the bible they would also see things like to God a day is a thousand years, sorry cannot remember where.

I wrote a hub on Eugenics which is the process of breeding in or out different traits.

Thanks for your interest and comments, always nice to get them


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 3 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

Sorry but Im going to dare to say it......people who believe in the biblical story of creation..believe in fairey tales basically speaking. Darwin never said God doesn't exist OK. his findings led him to believe that God wasn't needed for life on earth as we know it to exist. the bible was written by people..my relatives, thousands of years ago at a time most natural phenomena could NOT be explained. Much time has now passed and it is science that has shined a brilliant light on the natural world NOT sunday school. If you want to dumb down on the natural world keep reading the bible and keep listening to ministers looking to convert people living in fear. If you really want to learn about the ever changing world read about science which is unbiased as it can get because it undergoes peer scutiny by competiting ideas and research. The Church actually killed many people and their many competing ideas to bring you their canned stories. the church is about closing minds NOT opening minds. read science books if you dare. the human mind is a terrible thing to waste.


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 3 years ago from Northamptonshire Author

I would just like to say I read many science books, but as long as scientists argue amongst themselves, we will always be able to poke wholes in their ideas, it is all part of an enquiring mind


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 3 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

Scientists may argue about certain subjects but overall generally speaking evolution is accepted as taking place everyday and this fact really isn't disputed all that much as the evidence far outweights any doubts you andother nay sayers might have. The more biologist find out the more evolution affirms itself. Mind you the Church has been back peddling on the creation story to make it more viable in light of evolution. The Flu virus evolves every year. Viruses and bacteria develop resistance everyday and the fittest make us their victims everyday and there is not much argument over this fact.


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 3 years ago from Northamptonshire Author

The intention of this hub was not to argue creation versus evolution but to bring attention to what evolution as it stands does not explain, the first time I realised the conflicts between different beleivers in evolution was when I read it in a book about evolution! I hate people who blindly follow anything without question, and love the fact that this hub has atrracted quite a lot of interest, thankyou for your comment


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 3 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

If your argument about evolution is that we don't know everything what else is new? If you would have asked Darwin , do you know everything through your theory of evolution Im sure he would have laughed. Why in hell was he looking and continued to look into the question more deeply then anybody around at the time. Because he thought he knew everything?And this is precisely why he was able to come up with the best explaination for how biology works over time. Alot of time, more time then most humans can wrap their heads around. But evolution has been recognized in the finches Darwin studied on the Galapagoes Islands. After careful measurement it was found that the beaks of these birds adapt very quickly to changes in the environment. But you need not look to Darwin to see evolution at work. You can actually see it in the way human ideas themselves and societies evolve and change over time. The ideas that become seriously challenged by the environment fall or fail then adapt over time with more fruitful insightful adaptations. Still nothing is perfect this process of change must continueto keep pace. The idea of evolution itself is not free from this challenge and so is open to changes as we find out more about the world.I don't know what book you read but I have read quite a fewand continue to learn more and so far the foundation of evolution has NOT been seriously challenged as far as I can see. I read quite a bit of the black box book containing the argument for the intelligent creator and how the human eye could NOT possibly evolve but it falls far short of putting the proper understanding of biology in perspective.If you know of a book that actually successfully refutes the basis of evolution please tell me and your readers its title.


Kit 18 months ago

Wallace was overjoyed to be published with Darwin “It would have caused me much pain and regret had Mr. Darwin’s excess of generosity led him to make public my paper unaccompanied by his own much earlier and I doubt not much more complete views on the same subject, and I must again thank you for the course you have adopted, which while strictly just to both parties is so favourable to myself.”- Alfred Russel Wallace, and Darwin also went on a long (five year journey) on the H.M.S Beagle, and if you think that Darwin was comfortable at home being eternally sick and watching several of his children die you are grievously mistaken.

“It would have caused me much pain and regret had Mr. Darwin’s excess of generosity led him to make public my paper unaccompanied by his own much earlier and I doubt not much more complete views on the same subject, and I must again thank you for the course you have adopted, which while strictly just to both parties is so favourable to myself.”- Alfred Russel Wallace

And with the third nipple thing: just because all apes you've ever met have only had two nipples doesn't mean that just like in humans apes occasionally have 3 or 4, given that all mammals were originally evolved from the same few mammal-like reptiles (that's the name).

With the chicken and the egg the question is just about the chicken and the egg not the Red Junlge Fowl (or other jungle fowls probably mixed up in the modern chicken), or any previous ancestor of birds. SO YES the chicken did come first. End of that particular question. Evolution does not try to answer the origin of life just the development of it.

And no actual scientists are fighting with each other. Those who believe in intelligent design instead of ACCEPTING evolution are not real scientists. Evolution is and accepted fact and just because human brains make it extraordinarily hard to see the truth, and people just believe the first article few articles they find on the internet doesn't mean evolution is dis-proven. It just means you didn't look hard enough or that the evidence you did find for evolution you refused to believe.


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 18 months ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

THE EGG CAME FIRST. why? Every time creatures have sex and reproduce by egg they are in fact creating a unique animal. this unique animal is made by the joining of the two creatures dna & rna. so in order to see the unique creature it first must come out of what..the vessel that holds the DNA & RNA package. what's thaT CALLED....ITS AN AMAZING INCREDIBLE EDIBLE EGG !!!!!


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 14 months ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

On the other hand..the egg still comes first. the developement of what are known eggs to us appear in biology way,way before any sort of bird, chickens included. by the way..in case ANY REALLY religious folks read this. Religious folks love to say...and spread the LIE, that there is no such thing as coincidence. Everything happens for..Gods reason....all those things in life religious folks caNNOT EXPLAIN OR DONT WANT TO. A BOOK WAS PUBLISHED BY about random numbers. the book contained one million 5 digit numbers. the resulting coincidences contained in this book reveals just how the minds of religious folks GET IT all WRONG!!!


dingyskipper profile image

dingyskipper 11 months ago from Northamptonshire Author

So many people read the bible and do not take it in, or are discouraged from doing so. Not all things happen for Gods reason, and I always think that it is a terrible religion that teaches God deliberately takes the lives of children for example. The bible actually talks about chance at Ecclesiastes http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Top...


ceh4702 profile image

ceh4702 11 months ago

If you read Genesis it says something like this: Such and such was formed or made and there was an evening and a morning and they called that the fourth day. It does not say it was created on the fourth day as in a 24 hour period of time. I think the way the Bible describes it is that it was a creative period. I assume something gets lost in the translation.

In the article they use as an example a Giraffe. That is one interesting article. There are other animals that might make for interesting discussions and examples of how animals and man's concept of them change over time. One very interesting article is an animal that often is referred to in the Bible, the Camel. There was a dig site in and around the Middle east or the holy land area and one thing they thought was odd is that they did not find that many Camels. This really intrigued me since I have read the bible a few times, so I did some research on the subject. Archaeologists believe the Camel might have originated from either North or South American continents or it might be and offshoot of the Modern Day Llama that now lives in places like South America and Peru. There are other animals like elephants that have been found to have lived in North America. This could point to the possibility that all the Continents could have been connected together at some time or people long before the Roman Empire imported these animals on ships or possibly a land bridge or they migrated during an ice age. So the Camel was used by people to get around and as an animal to carry warriors. The tribes in northern Asia seemed to have used the camel and then it made its way down with the Persian empire(Iran and Iraq) into the middle east. At first the Camel was used just for transporting people. It was not till later that the saddle designed for cargo was developed. I think this story about the Camels is an interesting one as well.

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