Does energy exist?

1. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   What we have explained, over and over, it that objects are not the only things that exist.  Actions also exist.  Heat is the action of molecules, light the action of photons, etc.

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      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "What we have explained, over and over, it that objects are not the only things that exist."
      " Actions also exist."
      Action are done not physical. Action is done by something that exist. What you say is 'verbs' exist, while it is basic grammar that only 'nouns' exist.
      "Heat is the action of molecules,"
      
      Heat is our perception of the vibration of molecules. If our brain area that can perceive heat is destroyed, no one will be able to say there is heat.
      
      "light the action of photons"
      Light is what??? If it is a particle, how do you explain diffraction and interference. If it is a wave, what is the medium? Or is it something else?

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2. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   We have already done this.  Things that exist effect the physical world in a cause/effect way.
   
   There are two main categories of things that exist: objects and actions.
   
   Energy is a subcategory of actions.
   
   How many times will this need to be said for it to penetrate your brain?

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   1. 0

      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      
      'Run' is an action. So run exist even if there is nobody to run?

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3. 0

   Kirui l. K.posted 12 years ago

   Druide dude
   Of course to move from a to b requires a force or some ability of the object to move. You don't understand jomine! The question is what is the cause of this 'ability' i.e energy? Saing that an object moves because of energy is correct but we understand nothing! Was the billiard ball hit by another billiard ball, cue stick, did I tilt the table or did it come in contact with a demon called energy?

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4. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   Things (objects, actions) do not need to be autonomous to exist.
   
   There are two main categories of things that exist: objects and actions.
   
   Energy is a subcategory of actions.

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      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A good religion you got!!
      So Mike Tyson's punch exist!!!
      Great!!!
      
      Get to basic grammar 101

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      1. 84

         psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         An ad hominen attack is equivalent to conceding you have lost the argument.
         
         And yes, Tyson's punch certainly does exist.

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            jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            "An ad hominen attack is equivalent to conceding you have lost the argument."
            
            "There is no argument. You were repeatedly saying the same things again and again, without a proper explanation or rational understanding."
            
            
            "And yes, Tyson's punch certainly does exist."
            
            According to your definition  the punch only exist, if it hit somewhere. If the punch was only in the air, it didn't cause any effect and hence do not exist.
            An action is the interaction of two objects. An effect occurs when the objects comes in physical contact. Action  is always that is done by some "THING". Exist is independent, standalone. Objects exist, whether it does action or not. Action can occur only if there is some object to does the action. The so called punch is just the motion of a hand. Hand exist, motion occurs. Hand is the object, motion is an event.
            
            Try to find the difference between noun and verb!
            
            Then energy is not action,. Energy is defined as the capacity or ability to do action.
            I may have the ability, but still may not do the action.

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5. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   Energy is......... the action of small particles
   Exist is..........acting as a causal factor in the real world.
   
   The logical failing is on your end.

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      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Causal factor- one that cause. Your are referring to a thing that caused the action not the action.

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6. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   Your reading comprehension is terrible.

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   1. 0

      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That happens when YOU use your words vaguely. As long as you are not able to use your words consistently, don't blame the audience. Or you do not know what is 'cause'.

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      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yet you are the one who do not know the difference between a noun and a verb.

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7. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   You have decided only objects exist.  That's fine.  Crazy, but fine.  Every single person who has responded has tried to put you back in touch with reality and you refuse to.  Which is very sad, so I will let you have the last word.

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      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So you missed Bill Gaede, Kiuri and Winston?
      
      There were so many arguments, but all are 'argument from authority'! You were the only person who couldn't differentiate a noun from a verb!

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8. 53

   Dafqposted 12 years ago

   Why is everyone so close-minded? Nothing good comes from arrogance
   A bit of out of the box thinking won't kill you people
   
   From 1st post:
   "Exist is defined as having physical presence, that is having shape and location.
   Energy is defined as the capacity to do work."
   
   Jomine, just wondering where did you got those definitions from?
   
   
   Perhaps the big problem here is in the scope of study, should "existence" really be defined by physics?
   
   Given my very limited intelligence (being myself a human):
   Exist - Everything that my being/consciousness knows, that which is not in my mind does not exist until it does
   Energy - An attempt by the current universe model to generalize/give a name to the phenomenon?
   
   The problem itself is our "low" intelligence and perception in this case and becomes a philosophical question...which can't be separated from physics if you're doing these kind of questions, otherwise you end up being close-minded yourself
   
   "So does energy exists?"
   Does anything exist outside of our heads?
   Who knows!
   
   
   Now...was all of this just to discuss Gaede's rope theory?
   
   PS: Sorry for the thread resurrection

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      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A definition is to clearly and unambiguously state the meaning of a word so that the word can be used consistently and precisely. So the definition should be observer independent.
      Your definition is subjective.
      From where I got?
      I've given the universal definition of energy.
      Exist from bill gaede and from the meaning from dictionary.

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9. 59

   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   If gravity existed at the inception of this universe, that is an energy. For there to be space/time requires the presence of energy. To move from given point "A" to given point "B" requires energy. Throw a log on the fire, and you convert the energy in that wood to heat and light...energy. Energy moves from one form to another. The total sum of all the energy in this universe is a constant. Yesterday, today and tomorrow. If there were no energy, there would be no matter. If there were no energy, then the Atomic bomb doesn't work.

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   1. 53

      Dafqposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Dude, I think that what Jomine is referencing is energy as a thing itself and not just a concept of "forces" that transform things
      As in...Chi/Ki, holy spirit/"god's breath", etc
      
      Try to think of it more "meta-paradigmatically"
      
      The sky is green...

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      1. 59

         Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Energy is energy. It takes a billion different forms, and we are not equipped at this time to determine the presence or lack of presence of consciousness in the energetic state. Think of the universe as a living organism...a consciously aware, living organism. In the equal and opposite state, absent a material form. In the material reality, where everything exists.

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         1. 53

            Dafqposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Oh I have my own mental model of the universe and I'm pretty happy with it
            
            I'm just trying to picture how the universe looks like from Jomine's point of view
            
            "It is my firm belief that it's a mistake to hold firm beliefs"

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10. 58

    Pi 3144posted 9 years ago

    According to the Library of Congress, in the science department, “Force” does not exist physically, which begs the question:  how can “Force” be the initial cause of “physically” pushing and pulling on an object(s) when it doesn't physically exist?

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       wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       See your local college professor.  He can perhaps explain how forces act on physical objects.
       
       I just know that they do, both from my own physics classes and from 64 years of experience.

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11. 53

    physicsfoolposted 9 years ago

    Mr jomine,I completely agree with your openion.Energy,force,temperature,heat and stuffs like that ---they are nothing.These stuffs dont exist in the universe.These stuffs are just introduced by humans so that they can calculate the workings of the universe with mathematics.In our universe only space and time exist.Matter or elementary particles  exist in the way it is today due to flow of time being different in different regions of space.
    
    These are the conclusions I got from two years of deep logical thinking by reasoning.
    
    I hate people bcz most are brainwashed.They take most things for granted and prove their thoughts using illogical reasoning with the help of language,majority and authority.

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    1. 84

       psycheskinnerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If only matter/stuff and no actions/forces 'exist', trying jumping off a tall building and seeing how that goes.

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          wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          

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12. 53

    physicsfoolposted 9 years ago

    Mr psycheskinner, what do you mean by-----
    "If only matter/stuff and no actions/forces 'exist', trying jumping off a tall building and seeing how that goes."
    
    I guess you mean that I say "Energy,force,temperature,heat and stuffs like that " don't exist.
    
    For me existence of something mean they really are "things" of our universe and not "concepts created by humans to facilitate their understanding of universe at macro levels".
    
    Energy,force,temperature,heat and stuffs like that are all concepts created by humans to facilitate their understanding of universe at macro levels.When these concepts were invented, physicists were only concerned with "a mathematical explanation of observed phenomenon of the universe at macroscopic level" without knowing anything about space,time and the workings of the universe at microscopic level.
    
    Physicists still worship those old researchers and follow their old way and call these old concepts as "basics" or "elementary physics".Therefore the modern physicists still use these old concepts and extend these old concepts and call them "advanced physics".Thus  physicists of today doesn't have any curiosity to know the "why" and "how" since they only care about a mathematical framework to explain our universe; and to achieve this they stick on to the old concepts like energy,force,temperature,heat, etc....
    
    But what I am concerned is neither about any mathematical framework to explain our universe nor to achieve any fame from physicists or humans.I am only concerned about why the universe is the way it is today.

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