Illegal Immigrants and the American Dream

Sound Bites

The debate over the Arizona Bill, Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act, SB 1070, rages on.  Some call it racial profiling and others believe it is just what the state needs to fight the rising costs and crime rates associated with illegal immigration.  It is called the strictest anti-immigration law in decades, yet uses the federal law as its guide. It has prompted outrage and accolades as people take sides.

President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, & Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano
President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder, & Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano

Our president weighed in on it, using his mega phone on the national stage, with his own sound bite, stating that the law threatened, ‘to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and our communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe.” Then he admitted that he never read the bill.

Our Attorney General and the Secretary of Homeland Security were both very vocal in their sound bites, about how inappropriate and bad for the country this bill was. Then they admitted that they didn’t read the bill either.

I would like to ask a serious question here…..If they haven’t read the bill, why are they even commenting on it? And why would the press report their statements? I think I know why.

Kids and ice cream
Kids and ice cream

Now Whose Talking Fear and Rhetoric

You tell me, who is propagating fear in this statement? You take your kids out for ice cream and get stopped and asked for your papers? The president said, “You can try to make it really tough on people who look like they, quote, unquote look like illegal immigrants. One of the things that the law says is that local officials are allow to ask somebody who they have a suspicion might be an illegal immigrant for their papers — but you can imagine if you are a Hispanic American in Arizona, your great, great grandparents may have been there before Arizona was even a state. But now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you’re going to be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.”

Really?  How did he know that if he never read the bill?  Are these sound bites meant to sway anyone? The left accuses the right of fear tactics, yet this statement incited quite a bit of fear and a lot of protesting.  This, from the guy who promised a new era of civil discourse. Does the term ‘stupidly’ come to mind?

They pulled this same scenario with the Health Care Bill too, sending out sound bites before anyone read the actually bill.  Both sides did. The difference here is that the Health Care Bill was thousands of pages and the Arizona bill is just 16 pages including amendments.  Yet, it remained too difficult for them to read before commenting.

IMHO

In my humble opinion, that’s the catch phrase here right?  I can say anything I want to, because it is just my opinion.  I can say all manner of evil against this country as long as I put ‘IMHO’ in front of it, because that makes it all OK, freedom of speech and all that.  

Apparently, that’s the way life in Washington is being done, as well.  Leaking these little IMHO nuggets out, so everyone knows what their humble opinion is.   When they get to actually reading the bill, they may have to change that opinion, but by then their humble opinion has been duly noted by all of the press and reported to the world.

Now I wouldn’t dream of saying that this is the first time something like this was done; I am not that naïve. But it sure seems that the public’s view is getting manipulated by these little ‘tweets’ instead of by actual law. 

We all have to have ID
We all have to have ID

So, what is the law?

The Arizona law gives law enforcement the right to question the immigration status if, and only if, the person can not provide sufficient ID upon being questioned during a crime related incident. That is the bill in a nutshell with the inclusion of holding regulations. As far as I know, going for ice cream is not illegal. I don’t know where Obama gets this stuff.

Spelling this out distinctly, Arizonainsists that law enforcement may not stop or question anyone about citizenship without suspicion of illegal activity. The opponents of this bill must have forgotten that every person in the United States is required to show ID at the request of any law official. It matters not if you’re driving a car,walking down the street or getting ice cream with your kids. If a cop asks you for ID, you are required bylaw to provide it, whether it is crime related or not. This is federal law. As a student of law, Obama knows this. When he does finally read the bill, he will be aware that the federal law is actually stricter than the Arizona Bill SB1070.

Can I see your ID?
Can I see your ID?

If we, as citizens of America, are required to carry ID and to show it upon request, why on earth would we require less from a non-citizen? Remember what he said about the basic notion of fairness? What’s not fair about this?


We don’t like the term ‘papers’. It reminds us of Hitler. This, IMHO, is the reason that the opposition uses that particular terminology so predominantly. What is the first thing a cop asks you when you get pulled over? Can I see your ID, registration and insurance? Is that considered racial profiling? Or is that fair since they require it from every one that gets pulled over?

One other matter of note here is the fact that other border states have very similar laws already on their books, including California, the loudest protesting state against the Arizona law. Maybe they should read their own bill before commenting.

The Kicker?

Here in Michigan, Kalamazoo Central High School is the president’s top choice to win the first annual “Race to the Top” competition. The prize is having the president speak at their commencement. First of all, I would like to congratulate the school for winning the prize. Kalamazoo has worked extremely hard to change their low graduation rates into a successfully high rate.

I must point out that neither the school nor the school system did this on their own. The community came together to form the “Kalamazoo Promise.” Founded a few years ago, this promise is a pledge to pay for the college tuition of all the graduates of the Kalamazoo high school. Funded by anonymous and private enterprise donations (no federal or state money), this program has encouraged so many students to continue their education. I mention this program because it works and more communities should look to follow this example to make college attainable for students.

So Obama wishes to highlight the success of this school and for that he should be applauded. However and here is the kicker. The president’s security team is requiring the students to fill out citizenship forms complete with Social Security numbers, in order for the security team to do background checks. Ok, perhaps this is standard procedure when the president agrees to meet with the students but the hypocrisy is not lost here. For the protection of the president, it is ok to ask to see papers, but for the protection of the people in Arizona, asking for ID, is racial profiling.

We all have the right to say what we want.
We all have the right to say what we want.

Back to IMHO

Here we go……..because in my humble opinion, it isn’t about the ID, the papers, or even the people. It is about the money, the future votes and the opinion of those who want to fundamentally change America. Don’t you wish they would let us in what the change is, that they keep talking about? I mean we see some of the changes in America that have taken place in the last year and so far most of us are less than impressed. I know I’m not impressed.

So what is the final goal of these changes? They want to change the greatest country in the world into what? Funny, they won’t give us the answer to that. So far, we see more entitlements, out of control spending, and politicians telling us that they no longer consider the Constitution as important. Is this really the change they want? Sadly, I think it is.

The real question remains....To what end?

Showing Immigration
Showing Immigration

Back to Arizona

The state of Arizona is going broke, as are many of the states. The illegal immigration is costing the state of Arizona billions every year without an end in sight.  Do they not have the right to control how their money is spent?  Are they not a sovereign state?  What does that mean anyway?  Each state is sovereign, meaning that they govern their own state.  Federal law takes precedence only in national and international circumstances.  Does Arizona’s new law fall under that jurisdiction? NO, because the bill isn’t about immigration.  It is only about the illegal immigrants that are already in their state.   Nothing in the bill contributes to anything international as the illegal immigrants who are picked up in Arizona are turned over to the federal government.

The natural beauty of the Arizona desert
The natural beauty of the Arizona desert
The trash left behind by people illegally crossing our border.
The trash left behind by people illegally crossing our border.

The devastation to the state of Arizona is not just monetary either. As these pictures show, the illegals coming here have a great love for this country, don’t they? They want to protect the land right? Known as the Illegal Super Highway, this pathway has been dubbed the Trail of Trash and highlighted by another writer, Ghost32, here on Hubpages.

PICTURE CAPTIONS

This area is located in a wash, approximately 1.5 miles long, just south of Tucson, Arizona. When the rain comes, all this will be washed to the river and then onto the sea!

It is estimated over 5,000 discarded backpacks are in this wash. Countless water containers, food wrappers, clothing, feces, including thousands of soiled baby diapers. And as you can see in this picture, fresh footprints leading right into it.

And of course the trail leading out of the wash in our city, heads directly NORTH to Tucson, then leads to your town tomorrow.

Our desert has basically been turned into a landfill.

American the Melting Pot
American the Melting Pot

I get it!

I get it, I really do. People want to come to America. It is the greatest country in the world. My ancestors wanted to come here too. They did everything that was required of them, just as most of yours did. They endured many trials to accomplish it. They jumped through all of the hoops and did it right. They became citizens.

Required by law to get a job, provide for themselves or be sponsored, they learned the language in order to become citizens. They were proud to join this country. They joined the thousands of other immigrants to this huge melting pot and they melted. They became Americans. Many, just a generation later, sent their sons to fight a war in countries that they used to call home, because they believed in America. They were Americans. They worked hard to provide a better home and a better life for their families and their communities.

Throughout the history of this country, notwithstanding the extremists, who are the folks, claiming the most discrimination?

Now ask yourself, did they melt? Are they doing everything in their power to provide a better home and life for their families and their communities? Do they leave this country with their trash trailing behind them or with a trail of accomplishments? Did they become Americans? Or are they something else first?

Comments 89 comments

Petra Vlah profile image

Petra Vlah 6 years ago from Los Angeles

As far as I am concern, the most troubling fact is that our politicians speak without thinking and, even worse, they vote on legislation they did not read.

I have mixed feelings about illegal immigrants; I think I know enough about the good and the bad they bring into this country.

What I can’t tolerate is the inconsistency of immigration laws and the hypocrisy that comes with it.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you Petra Vlah, for being my first comment. It is troubling that the politicians speak without reading and understanding what they are talking about. And I agree that the inconsistency of immigration law is full of hypocrisy. Between the employment issues and legalization, we beg illegals to come here with one hand and complain about them with another.

I understand this much.....it serves their purpose to keep things in limbo, or they'd fix it.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 6 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States

I believe that Arizona's financial problems have far more to do with issues having nothing directly related to undocumented residents.....

I point to a flawed and failed tax structure and an economy that disappeared because of manipulation of markets set up and orchestrated by a few wealthy Americans and some international others....

It doesn't help that they were able to get Presidents Clinton and Bush II to create the housing and real estate development bubble...

"Arizona taxpayers receive more federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid than the average state. Per dollar of Federal tax collected in 2005, Arizona citizens received approximately $1.19 in the way of federal spending. This ranks the state 21st highest among all states, the same ranking as in 1995 when Arizona received $1.13 per dollar of taxes in federal spending. Neighboring states and the amount of federal spending they received per dollar of federal taxes paid were: California ($0.78), Nevada ($0.65), Utah ($1.07), Colorado ($0.81), and New Mexico ($2.03)" (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/13.htm...

To oversimplify a problem like this....to point to undocumented residents as opposed to standing up to Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, severing their connections inside government, and enabling policies that ensure American bound goods are made by American wage levels...wherever they come from....(as opposed to making policies that will cause real change).....is flawed, dangerous, and should be evaluated carefully before it is believed..

Your image regarding the "Melting Pot" represents the Anglo-dominated generalization of what "nation-building" is....I wonder, what was the social, ecomonic, and political reality of America at the time that image was drawn....

Racism...Ethno-centrism.....false delusions of grandeur based on false generalizations about who people actually are..

http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/hispanic/histo...

This law is troubling especially in conjunction with the other laws that have been passed...like the banning of ethnic studies and the other requiring President Obama to prove to the Arizona legislature that he is a citizen of the United States before they will let him put his name on their ballot...

What is the totality of the image here?

Some are still looking at the trees and missing the forest...


mikelong profile image

mikelong 6 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States


mikelong profile image

mikelong 6 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States

Internet lag caused my response to be reposted over and over....feel free to delete this extra stuff..

Sorry.


dahoglund profile image

dahoglund 6 years ago from Wisconsin Rapids

I tend to agree with you. To go back to basic principles that I was raised with, to ignore laws is to belittle the concept of law.


Mentalist acer profile image

Mentalist acer 6 years ago from A Voice in your Mind!

It seems the new law was an attempt to clarify laws already on the books?


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Mike, thanks for commenting. One sentence is about the cost of illegals. The article did not focus on the cost. I don't know that anyone will deny that America has its share of problems right now. But illegal immigration is surely one of them. No intention is made here to belittle any of the other problems.

My intent was to highlight the hypocrisy of this administration and other states who say they oppose this bill when the federal law and other states have such similar laws. And to point out the ridiculous notion that by asking to see ID is racial profiling.

If you didn't get that from reading, I'm sorry. Perhaps I need to rewrite.

The image of the melting pot was chosen specifically because of the many ethnicities represented.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

dahoglund, Thank you for commenting. It is the principle that all the laws are for all of the people, no matter what your name is, no matter what your title is.


Ghost32 6 years ago

Joni, I love what you've done with this piece. The original photos (with captions) are somewhat amped by what I wrote, but you've taken it to the level of a full credit college course on illegal immigration coming into and through Arizona.

Mike, we can have all the philosophical discussions we like. However, that doesn't change the pure dee facts when it comes to not just talking ABOUT the situation but actually living WITH it. Where Pam and I live, we are literally surrounded by an absolute river of northbound illegals. When it's your neighbor, rather than ours (third generation rancher Robert Krentz) who is gunned down by a cartel member he sought to assist, your viewpoint may adjust slightly.

Or maybe not.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you for your comments Mentalist acer. I was amazed when looking at the different state statutes how they all seem to have a commonality to the federal law, which as we know now, is even stricter than the Arizona law.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Ghost, glad you stopped by. Thank you for your very kind words. And thanks for letting me link to your hub. Although I live in Michigan, I love Arizona and lived there for a brief but very happy time in my life, in fact, I was married there. I hate to see the beauty of the desert spoiled, but more importantly, I hate to see the bullies tell me that I am a racist because I don't mind that illegals have to show ID like the rest of us.


dawnM profile image

dawnM 6 years ago from THOUSAND OAKS

great hub, good information on the bill, thanks for helping to take America back!!!!! knowledge rules, the correct knowledge that is. Curious on what your opinion of global warming is, just posted another reality hub question. Would love your answer.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks for stopping by and commenting Dawn. Correct knowledge is always important. That is something that really scares me, when I realize that so many young people are blinded by the current dazzle and don't really know the circumstances or consequences of some of the incorrect stuff out there.

I'll be happy to answer another reality hub.


American Romance profile image

American Romance 6 years ago from America

good write!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks American Romance.


Rafini profile image

Rafini 6 years ago from Somewhere I can't get away from

What I've begun to notice in life is: the Basic Notion of Fairness only applies to those who are worthy of being in the inner circle of whoever is deciding who to apply the Basic Notion of Fairness for. Meaning, of course, the President (and other government officials) refuses to enforce Immigration Laws because they need the voice and body of the Illegal Immigrant to further their own agendas.

I find it highly interesting that in today's world when everyone is encouraged and/or expected to do their own research for just about everything under the sun, the ones who you'd expect to do their research before it was expected of them fail to do so. I guess it truly means Responsible Government went out the window a long time ago.

Now isn't that just amazing - the President requires background checks (complete with ID & social security numbers) of a high school graduating class in order to fulfill his promise of a speech, yet when it comes to a single state wishing to enforce federal law, the request for proof of citizenship is considered racial profiling. Should we tell them to do their homework? Or, even...Do The Research!!

It only makes sense to expect less from non-citizens. After all, they aren't supposed to be here, right? They don't understand the language, the law, our way of life. Right? So, how can we expect them to keep up? How can we expect them to live within the letter of the law? How can we expect them to communicate their desire to go home since they made a mistake in coming here? We don't want them here, right? That's why we continue to support them and make their lives comfortable and more bearable than what they would have in their home countries. We require less from illegal immigrants because it isn't fair to expect them to adhere to the laws of our country. It isn't fair to withhold the benefits of citizenship just because the illegal immigrants aren't here legally. It isn't fair to expect illegal immigrants to enter the country legally, like so many others do. It just isn't fair!! (So the government officials ask: 'What are you going to do about it?')


fred allen profile image

fred allen 6 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

Hi Joni!- First let me commend you on your ability to put into words the peril involved with this issue. You were able to make a complex problem understandable for those not familiar with it. I stand in total agreement with you in your recognition of the hipocrasy of the current administration. The fear mongering they accuse the right of is nothing compared with the tactics of the liberal regime in place now. Does it not bother mikelong that the high profile left wing "leaders" that are so vocally in opposition to Arizona's new law have never actually read the bill? Upon scrutiny of the legislation they will have to conclude that it is simply a shadow of the federal legislation that is already on the books. It is troubling to know that there are so many people with head in sand that want to cloud the real issues in the name of political correctness instead of working together to bring this great country back to a condition of unity. Founded on the great principals set forth in our constitution. Based on the Judeo-Christian values that made this country great in the first place.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Rafini, thank you for your comments. The points you make are the reason that this is so important to us. The media took the sound bites and broadcast them around the world. They never bothered to even ask if the person they were quoting had any knowledge of the actual bill. Nor did any of them report any kind of comparison to the federal law. This truly represents the failure of the fourth estate - our press.

As for wanting them here? Sure, as Americans we request that they come here. Give me your poor, your huddles masses.......... But do it the right way. Do it legal. Join us and become an American.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Fred, thank you for your kind words. I agree, many have their heads in the sand. Years ago when the government took control of the public schools we saw the decline of the scope and quality of education. This education has failed to educate our youth to the rights and responsibilities of citizenship, therefore, they have no idea what the consequences are of the maneuvers being made.


Joezap profile image

Joezap 6 years ago from Washington rainy coast

Joni

You are so right! We all have to show ID! Our borders should be made secure. Illegal “sweat shops” shut down and the “owners” prosecuted.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks Joezap. The spin put on this issue by the press represents the view of this administration. Not once have I heard them say anything about the fact that we all have to show ID. Who gains and why, if we allow the one group of people who can't show ID, to be exempt?

Once real reform to immigration is on the table, the employers part in this will have to be part of the equation.


JerryG401 profile image

JerryG401 6 years ago from East Norriton, PA ...25 min outside Philadelphia

After reading this article I am certainly more informed on the issue then I was before. Before reading this article I had a basic understanding of the bill. I also agreed that this bill should be put into place. After all, if you are obeying the law, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

Latin Americans seem to be in an up roar about this, saying it is racial profiling. Law enforcement is only able to ask for identification unless the officer has reason to believe illegal activities are taking place. Latin Americans are worried that their friends and family won't be able to cross the border illegally anymore. And if they do make it across the border, their chances of deportation are now increased. This law will only enhance the reputation of Latinos. If you are in the country and are not deported after being asked for identification, that means you took the proper steps in becoming a real US citizen. After some time after the bill is passed, people’s outlook on Latinos in America will improve because we won't think your taking advantage of our system.


TinaMarieTad profile image

TinaMarieTad 6 years ago from Michigan

Joni~~ Another great Hub! I think there needs to be full scale clear and consise overhaul of immigration laws on a National level. Immigrants are important to America and have always been a very large part of our History, but illegal immigrants are a different story. Thanks for the great information and awesome pictures!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Welcome to Hubpages Jerry and thank you for commenting. I totally understand why Mexico is unhappy with this bill. Billions of dollars are sent back to family in Mexico every year from the illegals and the documented workers which help out Mexico's economy tremendously. Without sounding like a snob,for the most part, it isn't the highly educated and skilled workers who are coming here illegally. It is the poor and struggling that can not find work or support themselves in Mexico. That they have learned the tricks to receive aid originally intended for America's poor is really no surprise.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hi Tina, thanks for your comments, glad you stopped by. Absolutely, there needs to be immigration reform. But if we don't pay attention to new laws, like we aren't paying attention to the laws we have now, will anything actually change? We both know that what they say and what they do are not always the same thing.


Contagious! profile image

Contagious! 6 years ago

Everyone seems to start with the idea that a law forbidding people from doing exactly what people who first settled this land did, is just. Didn't people who settled this land do so without papers, permission and without taking tests, etc.? Weren't there laws which made it illegal for our ancestors to come here and set up shop? I'm sure someone had one, unless they were more willing than we are to share this place.

I'm wondering if the law people cherish so much ("Now that WE'RE here, you CAN'T come here") is what should be changed, and people should be allowed the same opportunities we had. Why was it right for us to settle here and not others? OF COURSE it is unfair that people receive services for which they don't pay for, and that has to change. I propose we let people live and work here, but require all to pay for services.


sheila b. profile image

sheila b. 6 years ago

Mexican isn't a race, so how can it be racial profiling? That said, how interesting that kids have to show 'their papers'. I'm quite certain they'll have to be scanned for weapons before they enter wherever the President will be speaking, so why do they have to show ID?


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Contagious, do you honestly think that if the state required them to pay for the services that citizens get, that they wouldn't cry racial profiling? Come on, it isn't about them coming to live here. It is about them breaking the laws of the country they want to join. They are more than welcome to come to America just like other immigrants did. America is a land of laws. We welcome them all, just abide by the law.

The point of the hub was more about the failure to report the truth of the law than about the law itself. Thank you for your comments.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hello sheila, thanks for stopping by and commenting. The security team is doing background checks on all of the students. The local press made it sound as though Obama plans to meet with students as well. I thought it kind of ironic.

I got to plug the school and the Promise as well as make a hypocritical point. :)


Contagious! profile image

Contagious! 6 years ago

I ABSOLUTELY think that if people were allowed to live here and pay taxes they would. They wouldn't cry anything except thankful tears. Have you worked with or known many illegal aliens? They (like many of the people who settled the west, who I don't think checked to see if they were legal, according to the laws of the peoples who inhabited the west before they arrived) are some of the most decent, hard-working, dependable, God-fearing people I have ever known. If by "abiding by the law" you mean, all laws, that we all have to abide by, that's right, we all should. I was just saying there may be one law which is a bad law. How is what people do (I mean those looking to support their families, not criminals, who should be kept out) different from our undocumented ancestors who settled Arizona and the west? OK...if they accept services without paying for them....that is different and needs to change. Yesterday. Other than that, I just see a modern day version of the people who made it easy for us, in the west, to have a good life.

I did take a tangent, or just focused on the one part of the issue that seems to be ignored (are they breaking a BAD law by coming here?) I agree about the media not reporting the truth about the new Arizona law--I trust no one in the media, left or right. BS abounds EVERYWHERE. But so does goodness and truth--and it's worth looking for!

Cheers :)


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Contagious, Thanks for coming aback and and clarifying. Bad laws do not get changed by breaking them, they get changed by amending the law. Many of the laws we have are bad laws. And you have to admit that not all of the illegals are as wonderful as you describe. Many are, yes, and they are welcome to become citizens.

I realize you are trying to compare our current policy to the old west and it just can't be that way anymore because of the way everything else in our society is set up. It isn't that way in any country anymore.

If you feel that strongly about allowing illegals to become citizens without having to follow the rules that all of the other immigrants had to follow, then perhaps you should do something about it like run for office and present a plan.


Contagious! profile image

Contagious! 6 years ago

Sometimes Man's laws conflict with God's laws, or the laws of decency and goodness. If a man asks his God, or his conscience, if it is right for him to do whatever is necessary to feed his family, and he feels his answer is to go to where he can trade his services for pay, he may do that. What might enter into the decision is the authority of which law, in which place, compared to God's law, which is every place.

Much of the southwest was "owned" by Mexico,(I believe God owns all land, not Man) and there is doubt as to how it became America. Some say there was swindling, and there were, obviously, military battles which made this "America" and not Mexico, or Hopi-ville. Does the fact of "taking possession" of an area by force make any laws made by the victor the ones to be followed-- does it make those new laws moral?

I'm just saying this to show how it might not be obvious, I would think, in the mind of someone coming from the south, that they are doing something morally wrong by entering here and working. If Mexico took back the land by force and made a law that Europeans, now being illegal, must go back, would that be a moral law, to be followed by all us "illegal aliens?" Would we be criminals if we didn't go? The whole thing is so complicated, and I guess the thing that bothers me the most is the venom I see and hear.

Of course there are bad people who are illegals, all kinds of crime happens everywhere, by all kinds of people. If there is a specific problem, it should be dealt with. I can even see how people would want to "fence off the borders" if their area is really hit by crime from Mexican criminals. But there ARE so many who really want just to do good. Historically, they have been caught in the middle of the struggle for the control over this area...they didn't ask to be born there, and have Mexico become America...it SUCKS to be in Mexico, for many good people. I just feel for them. Some of the parents of Special Ed kids I worked with were illegal. I have NEVER seen such love and dedication to kids so severely handicapped. So I admit I am prejudiced.

As far as the "Old West," of course, since "society has been set up," things are different than they were, but some things are exactly the same: there are people who came over to a land inhabited by others who, though not complying with the law of the land, worked hard to help their families. It is important, I believe, without discussing policy, yet, to just acknowledge the similarity, just to not portray current illegal immigrants in such a darker and eviler light, than their counterparts in the old west. (Those settlers didn't go through any legalization procedures, any more than current illegals do.) It's good for our souls to see each other for who we are, or we end up misunderstanding (as both sides of this issue do) each other to the point of demonizing each other. I know the left demonizes the right on this issue, which sucks. I have family members and friends of all political persuasions and we have to disagree without all the hate that gets put into discussions!

As far as policy, I don't understand much about immigration laws...yeah, countries aren't set up like they were. I wish there were a way to allow people from the south to stay here (I know I didn't do anything to earn the right to be here either!) if they have work arrangements that are mutually beneficial to both parties and pay for their services. Maybe I will (after I educate myself!) do something about it. Thanks for the suggestion! And hopefully, I will keep an open mind, and be willing to change it, as I read and learn more. Isn't that the "American Way?"

Cheers :)


tdarby profile image

tdarby 6 years ago

Extremely well written, thanks


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you tdarby. Always appreciate a compliment.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Joni Douglas

'' However and here is the kicker. The president’s security team is requiring the students to fill out citizenship forms complete with Social Security numbers, in order for the security team to do background checks''.

............................................................

EVERY PARENT SHOULD REVIEW THAT FORM SINCE ASKING FOR PERSONAL INFORMATION MAY INCLUDE INFORMATION THAT THE GOVERNMENET IS NOT ENTITLED TO,

The government recently took over the Student Loan programs that were administered by banks and other private lenders.

A member of our family ( having a student loan )was called by the government and asked for information that was questionable. The agent told her that she would be sending papers for a signature and failure to sign the forms would terminate the loan. Since now that the government is in charge, loan applicants can only go to the government.

Our government under President Obama and the Democrat controlled Congress are taking control of major private enterprises and industries before our vary eyes.

It's time to find out what is being taught in our schools, parents need to be more attentive, question our children and be more involved with local activities provided by the school.

The fact that the faculty has not questioned the reasons to acquire personal information seems questionable.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Jon, thanks for commenting. I read your hub about the bill too. The truth is not being told by this administration. They have a plan and obviously the will of the people is not important.

The student loan deal has some seriously scary implications if the government can withhold funds for college without spelling out the criteria.

The local news here, stressed the personal information being obtained by security is normal. But what is normal anymore?


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Joni Douglas

Today the news media reporting at times should be questionable. The important issue is ,what was the position of the parents and school administrators.

OBAMA PROMISED OPEN GOVERNMENT IN HIS ADMINISTRATION.

It was reported that tomorrow congress will be voting on the finance reform bill.Another bill that the Democrat congress wants to hurry to get the bill voted on before anyone has time to review.

If passed without any amendmends, the government will have at least 60% control of the economy.Check out Glen Beck or Cavuto on Fox News if you have the time.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hi Jon. As it happens, I did catch the Beck show today. I saw his presentation on the finance bill that Congress is supposed to vote on tomorrow. And yes, it is scary stuff. But it is only the beginning. I think this administration will try and rush through all of their pet bills before the election. They know what is coming.


Deborah Demander profile image

Deborah Demander 6 years ago from First Wyoming, then THE WORLD

IMHO, you have written a great hub. The trail of trash is a sad indictment of what is happening to our great country.

Namaste.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you for the compliment, Deborah. Happy that you stopped by and thanks for commenting. It is a sad indictment. Something needs to be done; we all agree on that. I'm afraid that our politicians are using this sad plight to further their own agendas and not really address the issue.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 6 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States

Don't be scared by Beck....I have ceased being amazed at the bold faced liars that have found their ways to the airwaves...


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

I'm not scared by Beck, but I am often enlightened. Liars over the airwaves? That's a pretty broad statement.

I have ceased being amazed at the brazen lies of this administration. Another broad statement that does nothing to further enlightenment.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 6 years ago from Chicago

This is a marvelous piece that I enjoyed reading. Thank you for the concision with which it is written. I agree with you. And Confucious or whatever needs to read up on the Mexican-American War, and the origins of Texas. :D


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks James, I sure appreciate the compliments. Many of us would probably benefit from reading up on true American history as you so skillfully show us.

Obama has read the bill now, but stands by his original assessment of it. He, and both sides in Washington, will use this to boost themselves and their agendas, without accomplishing real reform.


Contagious! profile image

Contagious! 6 years ago

Coming back here this morning, I am embarrassed now, Joni, James, and anyone who read what I wrote throughout this comment thread. I wish I could delete my posts (all of them) realizing I need to think and pray a lot more before posting. I've kept a lot bottled up and need to actually take the time to present my thoughts and engage in dialogue more considerately and compassionately. Joni, if you know of a way to delete my comments, please do, otherwise, please forgive me for the waste of space.

Art


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Contagious! At your request I will delete your posts of this morning but please let me keep the others up. You are entitled to your views and open discussion is one thing that makes this country great. I would like to make another attempt to explain to you just what my thought process was in writing this. If you really want me to delete them all let me know, I will - but not on my account, only if it causes you grief.

First of all, let me say that America welcomes immigrants from all over the world. We ask that they simply become Americans, in thought and deed. It is not wrong to ask them to abide by the same laws that the rest of have to abide by. None of us had a hand in where we were born but it is up to us, as individuals, to decide what we will do with what we were given.

A main point brought up in this hub was the spin put on this bill by those in leadership positions. Before they even read the bill, they had their soundbites out there, determined to undermine and manipulate the people's thoughts on the bill, simply because it doesn't fit into their agenda. I firmly believe that those in Washington, both sides, will use this bill and this issue to further their own political ambitions and not really focus on the need for real reform.


Contagious! profile image

Contagious! 6 years ago

OK, Joni, that's cool. Thanks for deleting the above post (posted just after Mr. Watkins') and you can keep the others up. I would prefer to edit or delete each one, (but don't have time!) and approach it with more of a sense of consideration to you, but oh well. I just don't have the time to write on it in a way I feel good about. In fact, I'm actually forming thoughts BY writing...I'm the type, when I write a song, to often end up with something very different from when I started. I'm just slow.

One thing I must still maintain, though, is that I don't think I deserved to be ridiculed by Mr. Watkins, if the ridicule was regarding my considering historical elements to be worth considering, when dealing with the mindset, and outsider perceptions, of illegal immigrants. I am familiar with the history, and am also open to correction and opinions. Maybe I deserved ridicule about something else, like my inconsiderateness of you, which I will own.

I agree with you about spin put out before facts are known. This happened also with the Cambridge Professor being arrested, ("acted stupidly") and now, by much of the world, about the Palestinian flotilla incident. I will never be loyal to any political party. I hope politicians (and all of us) can just do what they know in their hearts is right.

Which brings to mind: I appreciate your consideration and thoughtfulness when speaking with me. That aint "left" or "right" --it's "human!" (and good)


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Fair enough and I'm glad you stopped back.


liswilliams profile image

liswilliams 6 years ago from South Africa

I really enjoyed this hub, well written. In South African we have had a lot of similar problems, almost turned into war. Thanks for a great hub


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you for your comments liswilliams. I do not pretend to understand all of the difficult issues that you face in South Africa but I do understand that working on problems is better than letting them fester. Thank you for stopping by.


MMMoney profile image

MMMoney 6 years ago from Where U Can Make More Money

nice article thanks


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you MMMoney. Glad you stopped by.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 6 years ago from Chicago

I would like to formally apologize to Contagious! I shouldn't have said anything about his comment on your thread.


mwatkins profile image

mwatkins 6 years ago from Portland, Oregon & Vancouver BC

Wow - Completely well written and more than deserving of a thumbs up! Thank you! I want to thank you for taking the time to get such great pictures, too! I have many friends in AZ and hear of their disgust almost daily!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you James, that means a lot to me and I'm sure it will to Contagious too.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you mwatkins for your comments. I also have friends in Arizona that are disgusted. The trash pictures were sent to me by a friend in Arizona but I believe they are available all over the internet.


Contagious! profile image

Contagious! 6 years ago

Thank you James A Watkins. BTW, I was blown away by your band's video "Victoria." I can only dream of singing that well! Thank you also for your many examples of skillful writing.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 6 years ago from Chicago

Contagious! You are welcome and I thank you for your forgiveness and graciousness.

Joni— You're welcome. Sorry.


sunflowerbucky profile image

sunflowerbucky 6 years ago from Small Town, USA

It's been my experience that most people complaining loudest about a bill have never read it nor understand a thing in it. It's pretty sad when that person is the leader of our nation! The thing that a lot of people against this bill don't seem to grasp is that being an undocumented immigrant is already illegal. All this bill is doing is asking to ENFORCE a law that is already in place. Like I have said in some of my hubs, if I were driving my car, and got pulled over, I would be asked to show my driver's license. That is not profiling. That is law enforcement. Great hub and the ensuing discussion was highly interesting!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

You got that right sunflowerbucky. So much is just showboating, we get sick of it real fast. Thank you for commenting.


Shadow Of Elisha profile image

Shadow Of Elisha 6 years ago from Coweta, OK. USA

Excellent article and it's presentation! I must admit, I believe that everyone has some great input here.

This nation was built on imigration, but as far as ILLEGALLY, I don't think so. I believe that anyone who wants to come to America, should abide by the laws of the land, and take the necessary precautions to be within legal statutes of the government.

Border patrol has been cut tremendously by the government to fund war efforts and other focal points. This has been happening since the Clinton administration, has trickled worse as the years have gone by. Our penal systems have been over-populated with these imigrants, and then we see our tax dollars funding their incarceration.

Then we find that, due to over-crowded facilities, the legal system has no choice but to release the imigrants back into the general population...

it's a viscious cycle...


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you Shadow of Elisha (I love that name btw). Doesn't it seem like they are starting off on the wrong foot, by breaking our laws, if they want to become Americans. After listening to the news recently about the border issues, this could really ugly.

Thank you for stopping by and adding great comments.


truthsayer86 profile image

truthsayer86 6 years ago from United States of America

OMG! So many comments. I just want to applaude you for such a well thought out and researched article -oops, I mean Hub.

I just wrote my first one out of frustration, but you put it all so much better. You are my new Hero. I'm so thrilled that so many people are speaking out. Now, what can we DO about it?


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Well thank you truthsayer. Your comments are appreciated. At HubPages, there is always room for one more. Speaking out especially due to frustration is one way to help. Defending the states right to protect their citizens is another. Welcome.


Hxprof 6 years ago from Clearwater, Florida

I like the way you dissected the arguments against this bill-one by one. The hypocrisy of Messiah Obama's admin. is shocking.

One thing I'd like to add, with your permission. In all the dialog about illegals coming to America to steal jobs we miss the bigger picture: Terrorists come in with them. The recent revelation of a Brazilian human smuggling ring bringing HUNDREDS of illegal Somalis into the country ought to have awakened Americans to the primary problem with a Swiss Cheese border-but it hasn't. Sad.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you Hxprof for pointing that out. Some on the extreme fringe would like to categorize us all as bigots. They do not get it that we see illegal immigration as different than legal immigration. Or perhaps they choose not to see it so they can spout at will and point those fingers at us. This is what I believe this administration is doing. Thank you for reading and leaving such excellent comments.


alexandriaruthk profile image

alexandriaruthk 6 years ago from US

fair enough, and you write and explain concepts well, arguments are valid and sound,


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hello again Alexandria. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment here. Portraying a sound argument takes more effort than a rant, so I appreciate your comments.


twogroce profile image

twogroce 6 years ago

Joni I like you girl! Thank you for putting this out there. I could go on and on about the crazy things going on "In My Humble Opinion" but you said it pretty well here. There have been many good comments added to this Hub. Very nice.

God bless you and yours!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Why thank you twogroce. I like you too! Well, in my humble opinion, the comments are all great too.

Thank you for stopping by and what's not to love about your comment.

May God Bless you too.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Joni Douglas

CHECK THIS ONE OUT, ANOTHER HALF TRUTH BY BO

OUR GOVERNMENT IN ACTION TODAY 8/10/10 PASSED A $26 BILLION JOBS BILL. President Obama signed the bill and proclaimed the bill will provide money to keep 140,000 teachers on the job and that the bill was deficit neutral, that’s what he said. Another half truth exposed that you will not see in the mainstream media or press.

The WHOLE truth is that only $10 billion was to go to the teachers (for pensions, our money to pay back union pensions shortfalls ). The other $16 billion is going to states to pay for Medicaid programs going broke in California, New Jersey and New York. So where is the money coming from to make it deficit neutral? The do nothing Republicans lost again, not one of their amendments got to the floor.

Some of it will come from taking away tax loopholes in companies doing business out of the country, it will take 10 years to cover this cost. The government will cut food stamps entitlements, won't happen until 2014. The rest will come from taxing corporations. Sounds like voodoo economics for the next generation and future Congress’s to worry about, again.

The American people are being lied to daily by the administration. The second bubble is near if we don’t wake up and be heard, CONGRESS and OBAMA are incompetent and in bed with special interests daily ( unions and wall street ).


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Exactly right Jon. The spin that Washington is putting on everything is skewed and people are falling for it, partly because they want things to get better so badly and then there are those who flat ly refuse to see the truth.

As the song says, 'When we don't stand for something we'll fall for anything.'

Thanks for the update Jon.


NoAmnesty 6 years ago

It is illegals who are killing the American Dream for Americans. Harry Reid is attempting to attach the Dream Act Amnesty to the defense bill next week. Call your senator's office today and make it clear that they will not get your vote this November if they support attaching the Dream Act to this bill. If the Dream Act cannot stand on it's own merits (and it can't - that's why they are trying this end run around the American people), then it should not be passed. They are desperate to pass some kind of amnesty. Don't let them get away with it. Let your voice be heard.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

The illegals are causing a tremendous burden on the taxpayers. The answers to this will be complicated and will not please everyone. Thanks for stopping by and for your comments.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Joni Douglas

If the government would enforce the 1986 laws there would be no need for the states to act. Our politicians will make statements that it is impossible to extricate 13 million illegals. Well let's start by

1.Denying non citizens government entitlements

2. Babies born on us soil by non citizens will not be made automatic citizens

3. Start enforcing the law

a No catch and release

b. Send them back to border once, if caught second time 1 year internment camp along border

c. Illegal act hard labor prison minimum 15 years

USSR, China, North Korea and other socialist countries take care of problems quickly.

Wake up America to what equal justice of the law should be all about.

The government is spending $ millions to put up a fence and the illegals are coming without fear of being punished for breaking our laws. As long as our politicians in Washington keep talking about amnesty and citizenship, they will come.

Let's support Arizona for their efforts to put the illegals on notice including president Obama and Congress.

I SENT E-MAILS TO OUR REPRESENTATIVES TO VOTE NO ON THE

Dream Act Amnesty bill next week.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Sounds like a great start Jon. You are right. This Dream Act is a last ditch effort and the dems are simply courting for future votes. Somethings in this admin are transparent.


ezpikins profile image

ezpikins 6 years ago from Texas

I love SB1070. DO it legal or F**K off. And I agree with Jon Ewall above.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

From what I understand, most folks in Arizona support the bill. Thanks for stopping by ezpikins. I appreciate the comment. It's always good to hear the perspective of someone who actually lives there.


ezpikins profile image

ezpikins 6 years ago from Texas

I appreciate it Joni. I'm a new legal citizen to the USA myself. I advocate for the side of legal immigration and support for SB 1070. If an illegal can spend $3000 on a Coyote trip to Tucson they can stay in Mexico and apply for citizenship the legal way.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 6 years ago from Texas, USA

I am in sad agreement. They don't think our Constitution is completely relevant to the world today. Liberals are caught in/follow a very different belief system. Great hub! Sad situation. On top of it, those here of the Islamic culture do not want to assimilate! Love your articles :)


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

you are absolutely right ezpikins. The lure of the American dream is a strong one but if you really want to achieve the dream, you have to do it right and do it legal, right from the start.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you Ms Dee, I am glad you like them. The way I see it, the Constitution is completely relevant for our time, perhaps now more than ever. I hate the word assimilate, it reminds me of the Star Trek Borg...... however, the idea that we all become Americans is what is important. No matter what you were before, you are now an American, and that should take priority. So glad you stopped by and left a such great comment.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Joni Douglas

SENATOR GRASSLEY sent a letter to the white house protesting the Obama’s administration secret inter office memos to various departments in the department of homeland security. The memos were attempting to go around Congress regarding the illegal immigration amnesty problems. The mainstream media in our local papers didn’t report the exposure of the memos, wonder why?


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

We know why, Jon. They all have their agendas, don't they? We have to stay vigilant. Remember in November!


francisid 5 years ago

if others can do it legally,then everybody also can..it just takes a lot of patience,hard work, and discipline.we all want a peaceful life so we must really learn to work for it.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 5 years ago Author

so true francisid


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I see your points and agree to most of what you reason here. I also see where the president and others share a concern. I love this great nation and I do not believe in closing the borders in any form against immigrants. I do not agree with all of the rules of immigration currently--too strict. My ancestors did not come here willingly, but I am glad they were brought and did not leave once liberated. This is a great country to live in and thrive. I want more people to come and be Americans. We Americans murky our own water with all the anti-America philosophies that we preach here. We did not do that in the past. Some people that come here do so with disdain now and refuse to give up their past to make a new future as Americans. I believe African Americans and Native Americans to be the only groups here who have the true right to complain about our American grievances because for both groups identities were stripped or stolen. Everyone else had and has a choice.


Eaglekiwi profile image

Eaglekiwi 4 years ago from -Oceania

Hi Joni

Really enjoyed reading your thorough article.

I offer my views from an 'alien' point of view, though have felt anything but while living in the USA. My husband is American although we married in my home country New Zealand.

Our case was very straight forward as I had oodles of documents and papers, that and the fact I had always had an open and cordial relationship with USCIS.

One officer actually told me that the Government (2009,2010) didn't want ANY new immigrants ,and even though my case was fairly easy, they still managed to mess me around with delays and frustrations,hence it became very very expensive.

We lived in SC for 18mths and I was amazed to learn of fake ID's being available near our local shopping area!...my husband said he often felt like a stranger in his own country ,yet sadly many new immigrants ( and some not so new) were thriving.

Fake ID's got them a bank account, car loans, rental tenancies,credit etc.

I could understand me having to establish credit etc ,but my husband 100% born and bred American had so much trouble.

Maybe because he had been outside of the states for 5yrs worked against him-though I can see no reason why that would ever matter.

Personally for me the warmest memories I have of the USA are her people ,everyday hardworking kind people. They embraced me and took me under their wings.

Take away the greed and power out of politics and common sense may prevail. I hope so.

Maybe rather than sending all those troops overseas,deploy them instead on your borders-

Happy Birthday America!

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