One Progressive’s View of the Conservative Mindset: The Voter ID Controversy, So Who is Zoomin’ Who?

The Voter ID controversy has set the nation on fire and probably has been discussed ad naseum. But a studied observation of mine has shown this to be an issue that clearly reveals the true nature of the movement to require photo identification of all voters. The Conservatives (GOP) say that it is necessary to maintain the integrity of the voting process against fraud. The Progressives say that there have been little to no instances of documentation of the fraud and abuse at the ballot box and that Voter ID will have the effect of disenfranchising many voters who have voted previously without incident. These voters tend to be disproportionably those that vote Democratic. The GOP state legislatures have been in a fever pitch to get these laws on the books. Is it only a coincidence that the voters adversely affected are the very ones that are more than likely to support their opponents?

So let us have a close look at the sides and the truth behind their claims.

Pennsylvania:

Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania will hear a challenge to the state’s new Voter ID from the ACLU and other voting rights groups. The lead plaintiff. Viviette Applewhite, is a 93-year-old great-great grandmother who marched with Martin Luther King Jr. Applewhite worked as a hotel housekeeper and never had a driver’s license. Four years ago, her purse was stolen and she lost her Social Security card. Because she was adopted and married twice, she cannot obtain the documents needed to comply with the state’s voter ID law. After voting in every election for the past fifty years, she will lose the right to vote this November..

This elderly lady may well wield the hammer that will shatter the rightwing juggernaut in Pennsylvania and elsewhere where such laws will need to brought under closer scrutiny prior to the election, this November. This reminds me of Rosa Parks, Miss Jane Pittman and every elderly African-American that have endured years inequality and injustice, living long enough to see the laws changed in favor of the truth and reality that they have longed for just to see the villians of old rise again to center stage.

We of the Progressive persuasion were not too pleased with the statement from Pennsylvania GOP House Leader Mike Turzai last month when he said the voter ID law “is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.” I can’t help to believe that he was well aware of the potential to disenfranchise certain voters that would make it possible for Romney to win when he otherwise may not. This was most telling…

Meanwhile, the State of Pennsyvania says that there have been no recorded instance of the kind of voter fraud that the picture Id was created to prevent. While the Pennsyvania Dept. of Transportation estimated that 9.2% of eligible voters, 758,000 Pennsyvanians would lack the appropriate ID. That bombshell contradicted Pennsylvania Secretary of State Carol Aichele’s oft-repeated claim that 99 percent of eligible voters possessed the requisite IDs. The Department of Transportation didn’t release the exact demographic breakdowns of who did not have IDs, but it did find that 18 percent of voters in Philadelphia, a heavily Democratic city that is 44 percent African-American, did not have valid state-issued IDs. I am sure that I am going to give credibility to a mouthpiece of a GOP controlled executive and legislature, not likely.

Moreover, obtaining the correct ID from the state isn’t as easy as one would presume. In order to obtain a valid photo ID, residents of Pennsylvania need to provide documentary proof of citizenship, a Social Security card, and proof of address. Among eligible voters who currently lack a valid ID, 27.6 percent do not have at least one of the three required underlying documents needed to obtain a valid photo ID. Overall, this represents an estimated 379,009 citizen, adult, eligible voters in Pennsylvania So, let’s recap?

Conservatives say that it is not difficult to obtain the required ID and while there is no record that there has been voter fraud there are none that can prove that it had not occurred.


I say, in direct contradiction to my conservative friends, that this is no walk in the park. To acquire the supporting documents necessary to get the proper ID can be both expensive and time consuming. Even though either side may be exaggerating as to the amount of persons that do not have the proper ID, reasonble persons would not subject so many to disenfranchisement based on “prevention of voter fraud” that even the state of Pennsyvania either cannot or will not substantiate. The GOP argument is ridiculous, I will not tolerate disenfranchising real people based merely on their hypothesis and speculation. Before such draconian measures are to be brought upon so much of the electorate, is it asking so much that you present a compelling reason supporting why the ID is necessary? What’s the hurry? The fact that all the GOP legislatures and excutives have been so concerned about ramrodding all this prior to the November 2012 election is of concern to me.

Conservatives say that those that will not take the effort to obtain the ID actually do not want to vote and that anyone should be willing to part with a little money to show himself in earnest in the desire to cast a ballot.


While the idea of Voter ID may be good in principal, I do not like the boldface political purpose and say that such requirements need months and years to be properly implemented, with the states’ residents informed and educated. The fact that the GOP has been without exception responsible for pushing this is just cause for my suspicion, automatically. Voting is not a privelege but a right of every citiizen over the age of 18, so its not like buying liquor or cigarrettes or driving a car. Any expense to the citizen associated with obtaining an ID for the sole reason of being elibible to vote constitutes a form of poll tax and as Mr. Holder, Atttorney General of the United States has said, is intolerable and unacceptable, period! I agree!

So, where is the fraud? I, as a Progressive, will insist that you prove your case or I will support the dismanling of similar legislation from coast to coast, and be the loyal soldier in a war against a group that never seems to want to conduct its activities ethically. I would call you racist but because you are not just after minorities, but the youth vote, single women, working class people, the disabled and the elderly, I cannot say this. But, I will say that the techniques reveal the depth of depravity of the Political Right and its determination to win through any manner, fair or foul. I am here to inform the world of the machinations of the “Dark Side” and the deceptive reach of its tenacles if we enlightened ones continue to remain complacent and distracted.

So, I ask again, So Who is Zoomin’ Who? I am just getting started, Part II is coming, so do not change the channel! This is the song that was the inspiration for the title of this article.

Who's Zoomin' Who? -Aretha Franklin -1985

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Comments 36 comments

Sooner28 4 years ago

It's quite disgusting, and obvious what they are trying to do. Republicans don't want everyone voting. Polls show the majority of Americans agree with the Democrats on most policies, such as increased environmental regulations, and stricter enforcement of gun laws. Sad fact is, many people just don't vote.

Glad to see you again Credence. It's been awhile!


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Experts, major papers join chorus dismissing Romney's Ohio early-voting tactics. Will facts reach folks who don't read? http://sco.lt/73te5Z


RednecksForObama profile image

RednecksForObama 4 years ago from deep south

I got my voter ID right here. There are enough who do. Sorry about your luck, you are going to have a damn good President twice in a row. Now what's your excuse?


GA Anderson profile image

GA Anderson 4 years ago from USA

@Cred - Don't get lost in the rhetoric - from either side

It's a common-sense issue, that from my perspective, is very difficult to fight - with a straight face.

A couple common-sense, (again from my perspective) points.

1. Yes, it is a Repub ploy to affect Dem voters - as by most views, it is Dem voters that are most effected by ID requirements. But... look past the politics - many of those same "affected" people will jump through more hoops to get things like cell phones and satellite TV, than they are willing to do to help pick their country's leaders.

Viviette Applewhite is the exception, not the norm. I believe that is why the party and the ACLU has adopted her as their masthead.

Even understanding that this is a political ploy, in order to pass public and legal muster, most states have also initiated programs that will assist those needing ID's. At no cost to the applicant.

2. So, with all the effort the Democrat party puts in to voter registration, and election day get-out-the-vote programs, why are they not willing to dedicate the same effort to qualifying their voters to ensure they are not disenfranchised? With Republican efforts to pass these laws, also comes their responsibility to provide ID solutions - so why spend more effort screaming about the politics than making the ID laws a moot point?

Bottom line - yes, it is political chicanery, but no worse than stuff the Dems have done. Politicians only complain and scream foul when it's their turn in the barrel.

Real bottom line - why it is too much to ask that someone be able to prove they are who they say they are when they want to participate in something as important as helping decide the governance of their country? Is getting a cell phone more important? (I know it's a worn-out example, but it does make the point)

Personal case in point - I recently had my driver's license and vehicle registration suspended due to a financial judgement incurred against my son - problem was, he was still driving a vehicle registered in my name - so it was me that suffered the consequences of his actions.

So, there I was - No driver's license, no vehicle legal to drive, and I live about 11 miles from the MVA.

Solution - my daughter drove me to clerks office to get a copy of my birth certificate - so I could get a state ID - so I could get the MVA to show me why they suspended my license and registration (they would not even talk to me until I had a "PHOTO ID)

Then I had to jump through the legal hoops to get the judgement cleared (because it wasn't mine) and get my license back

The point - it took three days, and transportation help from a family member (although public transportation was also available), and a lot of frustration - but in the end - I got my official "DRIVER'S LICENSE PHOTO ID restored and in my possession

Is my right to help decide the chosen leaders of my country less important than my driver's license? If I, and others, will go to that effort to drive a car, why is it too much to ask to do as much to vote?

And forget the ruse about non-drivers, the point is the value of the right to vote. There are solutions out there for everyone - and with less effort than the fight now being waged - even the strictest voter ID laws could be rendered a non-issue.

This issue is just a political game. By both proponents and opponents. And good folks like Viviette Applewhite are allowing themselves to be used. With all the publicity - she could have her ID in a day.

Wait, I know, you say that's not the point, it's the scandalous intentions of voter suppression by the Repubs.

Sure it is - I agree. But how dumb is it to give them such an easily defensible plank, ie. common-sense logic, when you could steal their thunder my ensuring your voters are in compliance?

I am sorry to see you expound the "party line" when just a little "common-sense" would expose the issue for the political game it is.

Stand above the politics, name the game, and promote solutions - or, throw your lot with the rest of the mob and bemoan the inequities. This time your side is right, but was it last time? Or will it be next time? Aren't you tired of the games? You don't have to play, you know.

GA


GA Anderson profile image

GA Anderson 4 years ago from USA

@Cred - I had to come back - to explain my intent.

I have always been a critic of political games - from both sides, but I have become even more sure of my position after a couple recent reads.

One was my recent discovery of the author John Jakes, and his North and South trilogy, I enthusiastically recommend him to you - if you haven't already read him. Not only is this trilogy an entertaining, and absorbing, read - it is also illustrative of the perfidy of politics and human nature, as it was then - so it is now.

It is difficult to imagine that someone could see the picture painted of politics then, and not recognize it to be the same picture of politics today - without having to stand back and say, "I refuse to play this silly game."

Manipulation is truly the oldest profession - and it knows no affiliation.

That is the position you should take.

GA


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, Sooner, what's shakin'?

Well it seems obvious to me what lies behind all the Voter Id furor of late. There is no depth below where these sort of folks will lower themselves. So why try to put a brick wall before the apathetic? They are determined to see President Obama defeated at all costs, but not if I have anything to say about it! It is nice to see you, please, drop by again soon!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hi, LMC, I have my crosshairs on Ohio for Part II, it demonstrate even more outrageous GOP tactics that those being employed in Penn. As always, nice to see you again!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Greetings RFO you said I got my voter ID right here. There are enough who do.

But there are still too many that do not have it and could well be disenfrachised unfairly, that is the issue here.

Thanks for dropping by and sharing your opinion


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, GA, first of all, thanks for reading and providing an insightful comment.

This is nothing more than a dirty trick, GA. I had admired you for admonishing one of your commenters on one of your hubs once to avoid the bigotry associated with low expectations. That those that have time to buy beer and cigarettes should work as hard to get the ID needed to vote. It very easy to categorize folks, based on perceptions that most of you could not substantiate if I actually put you to task.

Of course Ms Applewhite is the exception, but even if the numbers that do not have the ID are exaggerated to any degree and the norm still involves large numbers in her circumstance, there is cause to be concerned

GA, this is all happening too quickly, my hat goes off to those states that allow for provisional ballots and such if there is question as to the identity of the voter rather than just dismissing the voter. Penn. protections do not go far enough. That is why it is in trouble. There is 3 months to the election with thousands that potentially can be disenfranchised, so what is the hurry outside of rigging the game so Obama will have a harder time at reelection? We on the left can give as good as we get….

Why do we need to spend precious time and capital addressing a rightwing dirty trick? I say use the courts, chop off the head of the serpent with a machete and its countless tentacles will die with it, rather than play the game with the “death by a thousand cuts” approach. That is why I like the judiciary as my favorite branch. There is just three months, the amount of people adversely affected are far too great to correct before the November election doing as you suggest. The GOP knows this already

You said Bottom line - yes, it is political chicanery, but no worse than stuff the Dems have done. Politicians only complain and scream foul when it's their turn in the barrel.

Maybe, and that is debatable. In any case, the GOP is not getting away with this dirty trick and we will keep our powder for the struggle in Ohio as well. The courts are good at reminding politicians and troublesome state legislatures that there is a limit to their power and caprice.

I hear you, GA, where was all this concern prior to Barack Obama becoming president and why is this ‘common sense’ you talk about exclusive to the GOP? This is just a GOP plot to avoid another 2008 and I am calling them on it. I know that there are plenty that could care less about casting ballot one way or the other, but dismissing them out of hand is not anyone’s call to make.

To make it more difficult for anyone to vote is not the role of the state particularly when Penn cannot provide a compelling reason why to change the current system that would disenfranchise voters.. I have no problem with the ID in principle, but it MUST be non partisan and all those affected will be educated, compensated and given sufficient time to acquire the needed credentials. . I know what the GOP wants, but the state of Penn is not the GOP.

AS for you personal account, not every one is as well heeled, resourceful or as well educated as you are, for those less fortunate do we put endless roadblocks in their way? I have always seen driving on public roadways as a privilege and voting as a right of all citizens, regardless of how smart or dumb they are.

There are plenty of Ms Applewhites and others that stand to lose their right to vote. The example is dramatic but it reflects on people in similar circumstances who may not have reached 95 years of age. Viviette is a patriot with a role in a necessary confrontation with the rabid red Penn GOP dominated legislature and executive

I am sorry too, GA, this is fairplay and justice in my humble opinion, not party line. My right to vote will not be unreasonably restricted. I say the same for the rights of all those others that so many are quick to dismiss as mere human jetsam. I promote solutions and address inequities. Just because many are not subject to inequity in the same way does not mean that we are to just ignore them. The upcoming court case is certainly one way I would do this, and we are right on track. This sort of thing is a lot more than a game and could have serious ramifications in the GOP dominated states where this kind of legislation has been rammed through. Isn’t that ram through stuff what it was that the GOP was complaining about concerning the AHA (Obamacare)? The GOP put up a big fuss then, why can’t we do that now?

Weill GA, you are still in good form , thanks for dropping by


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

GA

We all know both sides play political games, but there are foul lines and trying to politically disenfranchise is one of them.

Good to see that you are a student of history, I read the Kent Family Chronicles by John Jakes over 30 years ago. Each new installment was more compelling the previous one. I only regret that he never took the family chronicles into the 20th century.

When the game involves some people having flesh and sinew removed as the outcome, we have a problem. We say that continuing inequity and exploitation of some by others is not sustainable even while never completely avoidable as part of human nature. Those that consistently get the dirty end of the stick are duty bound to continue to call it out and society if it wishes to remain peaceful and productive will need to ferret these sorts of problems out as well.

That is my position on this…


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Just heard on Maddows show....Early voting (didn't catch the state): in Republican areas, both R's and D's have agreed to early voting, week-end voting, etc..anything to help people vote.

But in Democratic areas, the R's have voted no to early voting, week-end voting, etc.

Tie vote in Dem districs, and the sec of state breaks the tie. Sec of state is a R.

So guess what.....looks like R districts will have all the benefits of easy and plenty voting. D districts will not.

DEMONocracy!


Borsia profile image

Borsia 4 years ago from Currently, Philippines

I've lived in a number of 3rd world countries and every one of them required a photo ID to vote.

For those who think they gain from a voting system that has little meaningful regulation requiring tangible ID is seen as a threat.

Many of those same people would argue that ballots be available in languages other than English along with things like driver's license tests and such.

I am just as far from being a Republican as I am from being a Democrat but requiring valid photo ID for things like voting makes perfect sense if you want US elections to be kept upright and fair.

If someone is so out of the loop of US society that they haven't any ID they more likely than not have no grasp of the complex issues that will be determined in elections.


GA Anderson profile image

GA Anderson 4 years ago from USA

@Cred - Geesh! Just had to stick my hand in the cage, didn't I...

Oh well.

I did a couple articles on the voter ID issue, and I am going by memory - not recent in-depth research, but...

(ps. although I use it here - I know the word "every" is dangerous ground)

I think that every state that has passed voter ID legislation since 2010 has included the proviso that a provisional ballet may be cast if there is an ID issue - so NO voters will actually lose their right to vote, or be "disenfranchised"

Although they vary - here is a sample of state remedies when a photo ID is lacking at the polling place. This is from Indiana, which is considered a "strict" photo ID state:

"Voters who are unable or decline to produce proof of identification may vote a provisional ballot. The ballot is counted only if (1) the voter returns to the election board by noon on the Monday after the election and: (A) produces proof of identification; or (B) executes an affidavit stating that the voter cannot obtain proof of identification, because the voter: (i) is indigent; or (ii) has a religious objection to being photographed; and (2) the voter has not been challenged or required to vote a provisional ballot for any other reason."

*note option (B) which allows ID validation, and vote certification, with just an affidavit

** my note - several of the other photo ID states also allow voter identification with a process as simple as two precinct officials acknowledging a voter's identity - "Sure I know you John - You're John Smith, you can vote." (this example is from Alabama - a photo ID state)

citing Pennsylvania - currently the hot topic of this issue - in conjunction with the proposed new law, the governor mandated a large public information and education effort to make voters aware of their needs and options, re: getting a photo ID.

PennDot also offers FREE state ID's to anyone who seeks it for voter ID purposes.

AND, the governor has also directed that birth certificate copies be free if the purpose is to get a photo ID

Even so, if someone still shows up without a photo ID, Penn.'s law offers this solution:

"...Section 1210 of the act provides that they will still be allowed to vote via a provisional ballet if they can provide any of the following forms of ID: State municipality ID, most non-photo ID cards issued by the Commonwealth or the U.S. Government, Military ID, Passport, Firearm permit, Utility bill, Bank statement, Student ID card, Employee ID card, and even - a paycheck. *Voter then has six days to provide approved form of ID - WHICH IN THIS CASE IS NOT LIMITED TO A STATE PHOTO ID.

(pss. sorry for the caps - Italics not available in comments)

and on and on.... state by state....

so just who is it that will be "disenfranchised" and not allowed to vote?

and the, "there is no proof of rampant voter fraud," contention...

although an election fraught with allegations of fraud, what about LBJ's 1948 Texas Senate seat win - by 87 votes!

Relating that to Pennsylvania - a similar extrapolation could posit that only one fraudulent voter per precinct could swing a similarly close election. That statement may be a stretch, but it's not an impossibility. Which illustrates it's the concept - not the numbers that should carry the weight.

and regarding the various numbers of Penn. voters without a photo ID - take your pick, 758,000 or 89,000 or anything in-between, both sides tout the numbers they need and massage the perception to fit their purpose. 758,000 is a bogus number - it is a compilation of unverified "apples and oranges" data. And the 89,000 the state espouses - that's already been "adjusted" upwards too.

The point - don't trust the numbers, again it's the concept that matters.

So what about those folks - whichever number you want to use. Not a single one will be barred from voting. Some may have to take an extra step to convert a provisional to a confirmed ballot - but ALL will be allowed to vote.

I've come full circle - we are back to the real question, "How much effort is your right to vote worth?" Or, "How important is the veracity of the ballot?"

GA


KT Banks profile image

KT Banks 4 years ago from Texas

Well. One of the reasons I am now an Independent, is that I am sick of things like this. Trickery in trying to win elections is sickening to me. No one wants to win fair and square. They don't care what the majority of Americans really want - they just want to win...at any cost.

Thanks for writing this. No matter which side you're on, you need to be aware of what is going on - and why.


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

"Paul Waldman has done a lot of academic research on political ads. In fact, he says, he has personally watched "every single presidential general election campaign ad ever aired since the first ones in 1952." So what does he think of Mitt Romney's new ad that claims President Obama has a plan for "dropping work requirements" for welfare? "Under Obama's plan," says the narrator, "you wouldn't have to work and wouldn't have to train for a job. They just send you your welfare check."

I've seen ads that were more inflammatory than this one, and ads that were in various ways more reprehensible than this one (not many, but some). But I cannot recall a single presidential campaign ad in the history of American politics that lied more blatantly than this one."


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 4 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

I offer for examination the hypothesis that the clear division where Republicans seek photo IDs, and Democrats do not, has nothing at all to do with the possibility voter fraud; it's simply that Democrats don't want their picture taken.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Thanks, LMC, aint Rachel a hoot?This whole thing is quite transparent and the GOP needs to be held accountable for it. The courts needs to rule on this stuff and order a check to legislative tyranny. Again thanks for your insight....


lovemychris profile image

lovemychris 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

Well, that depends on who is on the courts! Funny--the R's have prevented so many of Obama's judicial appointments, it's causing a critical situation.

Of course, they don't want "fair" anything. The goal is to win, and winner takes all.

And all their little minions, I think they're scared. Or bullied. Or heck, just feeding their families. Chris Hedges had a great article on it:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31...

And I can count myself as one who keeps quite about certain things so as not to "rock the boat".

But not about this kind of crap. Out and Out stealing of America!! THAT I won't keep quite about!


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Borsia, nice to hear from you, I trust that everything is going well for you in Central America.

I may not have as much trouble with the concept more than having a problem of this being a political ploy on the part of the GOP to intimidate eligible voters who they know will never vote for their policies on its face. Why the rush, the big deal in 2012, we were not talking about this in 2004 or 2008? The timing and ferocity shows that this is just an anti-Obama ploy, and its dead on arrival. I say that if we are going to do this it cannot be implemented until 2016 for the next presidential contest and only then when BOTH political parties support it. The way the GOP is proposing to institute voter id is anything but fair. It’s not going to wash.

It is tragic when one wants to engage in the capitalistic system and not be very smart. However, the right to suffrage is part of citizenship for all over 18 years of age. You don’t have to be the smartest knife in the drawer to exercise that right. Every citizen in America has the right to vote regardless of how smart or not so smart they are. A lot of the reasoning you are providing is the one of the excuses the South used to disenfranchise blacks in the region for so many years. It is not about intelligence but about power and control, unjustified I would think.

Thanks for dropping by….


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Geesh! Just had to stick my hand in the cage, didn't I...

Yeah, I guess you did.

The proviso regarding provisional ballots: There are so many states that have implemented this kind of legislation without as many problems. Penn must fail to have this protective provision available and if they did, I saw no mention about it in the several articles that I read on the subject. I tend to think that they are in trouble because they don’t have the remedy. Most states where this has been implemented seem to have less problems than a few that are facing civil suits, I wonder why and what is the difference? Texas, Penn, and South Carolina come to mind.

You said "...Section 1210 of the act provides that they will still be allowed to vote via a provisional ballet if they can provide any of the following forms of ID: State municipality ID, most non-photo ID cards issued by the Commonwealth or the U.S. Government, Military ID, Passport, Firearm permit, Utility bill, Bank statement, Student ID card, Employee ID card, and even - a paycheck. *Voter then has six days to provide approved form of ID - WHICH IN THIS CASE IS NOT LIMITED TO A STATE PHOTO ID

If this is the case, OK. This is not much different that what they have been doing anyway. Everyone, even the little old lady and get some proof even if it not some photo ID requirement cast in stone. Penn can save itself a whole lot of trouble by making public the paragraph that you just cited. According to that paragraph there is no danger and thereby no issue for me, so I can call off my dogs! (for now)

As for the rampant voter fraud claim, the only people that seem to be on this is the GOP. The GOP struggles to find credible examples. If the fraudulent voter problem is to be fixed, it needs to be fixed in such a way that provides minimum impediment to registered voters. I do not want to see thousands disenfranchised merely to prevent 70 people from voting fraudulently. If the magnitude of the amount of registered voters without the proper id is correct than the only real fix is the acceptance of provisional ballots, at this late date.

You said, citing Pennsylvania - currently the hot topic of this issue - in conjunction with the proposed new law, the governor mandated a large public information and education effort to make voters aware of their needs and options, re: getting a photo ID.

With only 3 months till the general election there is not enough time to implement this properly. As far as I see, even 89,000 is too many to be disenfranchised, particularly when you compare that with 70-89 people who are to be prevented from illegally voting?

The concept must not only make sense but make sense in its implementation as to not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

You said: So what about those folks - whichever number you want to use. Not a single one will be barred from voting. Some may have to take an extra step to convert a provisional to a confirmed ballot - but ALL will be allowed to vote

As long as Section 1210 is implemented, OK

My right to vote does not have a price, but is an inherent part of my citizenship, my handing over of taxes to all levels of government is part of the price I pay. No taxation without representation? Most others pay into the system and have a right to have a say as to who is running things, EVERYONE.

Thanks for your comment, I will send you some soothing balm to treat ‘your bite’.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

May the best candidate win as long as it is as above board and as fair a competition as possible, I like to think that I perform a public service.

Thanks for reading and commenting, KT


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Obama has a plan for "dropping work requirements" for welfare? "Under Obama's plan," says the narrator, "you wouldn't have to work and wouldn't have to train for a job. They just send you your welfare check."

LMC,

The GOP are desparate and will do anything fair and foul to trip up the Progressive. Of course, the ad is a blatant lie as well as many of their ads that takes the President's words out of context. I worry about the funding gap. Are people so naive that they have no political convictions and can be swayed to see this very important contest with no more sophistication than the choice between alternate brands of soap? I like to think that people were not that fickle, but I could be wrong....

Thanks for the link, I will check it out..


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

You said: I offer for examination the hypothesis that the clear division where Republicans seek photo IDs, and Democrats do not, has nothing at all to do with the possibility voter fraud; it's simply that Democrats don't want their picture taken

Hi, Jim, nice to see you. In the current political climate, I have to entertain any number of explanations. For a few with some religion based restrictions, that fear of photography could be a real thing.


Nathan Orf profile image

Nathan Orf 4 years ago from Virginia

Interesting Hub, and so accurate. Republicans are apparently so very determined to rid themselves of the skinny black guy in the White House, that they are willing to intrude on the right of 5 million people to vote. How very ironic. Republicans claim to be against government intrusion into people's private lives. And here they are, advocating government intrusion into people's private lives. Voted up!


Borsia profile image

Borsia 4 years ago from Currently, Philippines

Thanks CR; Ha ha I'm not in South America anymore. I moved to Asia last March, to the Philippines.

I absolutely agree that every citizen has the right to vote. But that doesn't mean that they should get a walk on the things which are the norm for America. That includes reading and writing English and having some proof of citizenship.

When I got my driver's license I had to provide my birth certificate and if I am stopped by the police for any reason I have to shoe them a valid ID, even if I am walking.

This is true in almost every country in the world.

When I lived in Colombia I had to have a valid federal photo ID just like any other Colombian, likewise my Colombian driver's license.

Here is the Philippines I have to be able to show my Philippine driver's license and Visa.

This isn't an unreasonable requirement.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Thanks, Nathan for reading and providing insightful comment. I am afraid that the GOP propaganda machine is overwhelming in its power, making dark appear light and down appearing as up.

I believe as you that the ire that Obama receives from his adversaries go far beyond political differences. No one wants to acknowledge that persistent flaw in the American character in regards to racial resentment, but it is still with us.

The GOP and its values always seem to be at the opposite pole of 90% of those desirable aspects of society that many of us hold in high regard, for me anyway.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Gosh, Borsia, I had forgotten that you have moved on to Southeast Asia, I have to check and see if you have a hub discussing your experiences there. Is it even cheaper than Central America? Does the place meet with your expectations?

I certainly understand the identifying pricinple behind the picture ID, my problem is that it has to be implemented over a reasonable time so that those without can be accomodated to obtain one, and that is more than 3 months. As it is obvious from almost every statistics that there are still sizable portions of the population the live life without one. Their right to vote is not contingent on their having a picture ID as we went through dozens of election cycles with no such requirement.


GA Anderson profile image

GA Anderson 4 years ago from USA

Greetings Cred - a small point - the PA. voter ID law was signed March 14th - so the time frame is really just a few days short of 8 months - not the 3 months you state.

and there was a ton of fanfare and publicity before and on that signing date in March - so it was not a "secret" until the unsuccessful court challenge put it in the headlines again.

I would think 8 months is a "reasonable" amount of time for those that need to get things done.

GA


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Evening, GA, 8 months is longer, but the numbers involved give me pause as whether 8 months is enough. I did say that I could live with the law as long as provisional ballots are allowed.

On a different topic, I wonder why we don't have all this fanfare over absentee ballots which to me are much more susceptible to fraud? Why aren't the GOP putting as much emphasis on this area, I wonder?

The unsuccessful court challenge is unfortunate, so it on to the State Supreme court and see what they come up with. This Simpson fellow, a Republican, did not review with an eye on the full scope and implications of the law as it was written. I guess we will have to wait till the Fat Lady sings. I am not giving Penn up to the 'dark side' so easily.


Beaks 4 years ago from USA

I'm not a Republican, but I really don't understand what the problem is. It isn't hard or expensive to get an ID. Every state has a non-driver ID- you don't even have to be able to drive. I very, very much doubt that getting your purse stolen means that you can never again get a picture ID. Every other country in the world requires you to have a picture ID to vote, and most have that requirement just to be a citizen. Only in the U.S. does it have to become some big cause that pits one party against another.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Hello, Beaks, my issue is the disenfranchisement of voters. This has come to fast and certain states GOP legislatures use it to a political advantage, and that is unacceptable. Here is an example of a voter ID law that is acceptable, why can't the other states in contention model after this?

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/21/1339...

So, I am not against proper ID per se, but with a insignificant instance of voter fraud against the real risk of disenfranchisement, which side do you think I am going to come down on. Thousands of people without the proper credentials for the wrong approach Voter ID can swing elections much more than a handful identified in voter fraud.

From my perspective, I will deny the rightwinger any unfair advantage.


Borsia profile image

Borsia 4 years ago from Currently, Philippines

Hi Credence2; Yes I was getting annoyed with Colombia, where I lived for the last 3 years, for a number of reasons. Their very strange social system, the rise in crime, the noisiness even though I lived out of the city but more than anything else the cost of living had gone up 30% in 3 years due to the falling dollar / rising Peso.

I really should do some hubbing about the different countries I have lived in and all the things big & small that effect the "livability" for us expats.

As far as the voter ID I've seen some more coverage of the issue, or non-issue, and it is just another attempt to corrupt the 2012 vote. If it is to be done it should be after the election.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Thanks, Borsia, so all that glitters sometimes isn't gold. What I am afraid of is your experience being true at varying stages throughout Central America. They say that nature abhors a vacuum, well that sucking sound are all the gringos that are moving in and driving up costs of living and such and making what was once a bargain that much less so.

Maybe, because of the sheer distances involved, places like Vietnam, The Phillipines and such are temporary insulated from the trend.

Would you say that you enjoy lower costs of living in your current area over Central America?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

Wow, you have a lot of comments on this hub. It does take a lot of time to get your photo, depending upon the kind of help you have getting to the dmv. Anyway, there really hasn't been any cases of voter fraud. The GOP is trying very hard, and has been to keep people away from voting for Obama.


Credence2 profile image

Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast) Author

Thanks for weighin in and I apologize for not coming to reply sooner. Yes we did have a lively discussion on this didn't we? It is just that the GOP always try to win by cheating and when you confront them it, they are in a constant state of denial. See you around the hubs, Michele


Borsia profile image

Borsia 4 years ago from Currently, Philippines

Hi again Credence2; The cost of living here is lower than Colombia probably by the same 30%. But it is still going up right now the exchange is 41 Pesos to the dollar but that is way down from the 56/1 that was the case in 2006/7/8.

In most cases it isn't that the local currency is going up it is that the dollar is falling. I expect it to keep falling given that there isn't really any reason for it to rebound, despite what the bobble-heads are saying.

Colombia is becoming a big player in oil, which is the biggest single reason for their Peso to rise.

The Philippines doesn't have much going on at the moment to either raise or lower their Peso but the dollar will still go down, or up, with world trends.

Since there is nobody at the helm in the US who can do simple math or work a calculator they will continue to dive into debt and drive the dollar down. Pick a party, it makes no difference, either will be another disaster for the economy.

What I do like most about the PH, at least where I am living, is that it is more rural so quieter, safer and friendlier. There is a large expat community here from around the world, something that lacked in CO and even more so in China. Probably the biggest difference is that most Filipinos speak at least some English and many speak it well.

I live in a rather resort-ish area called Tagaytay, about 40 km south of Manila. It is one of the more expensive areas to live in but very nice.

I haven't been too active online mostly due to the terrible internet service, on a good day we get 56k, on a bad day it is closer to 26k. If we break 150K we bake a cake and throw a party. My bag of flour is still sealed.

It may get better now first because the Monsoons are over and because the local TV company is putting in na new 10 mb cable. But this is the same TV company that loses all but 5 channels after 2 minutes of rain.

At the moment I am back in China, about 300 km from Shanghai working for maybe a month or so.

The cost of living in China has gone up since I lived here (was 7.7 RMB then and it is 6.25 now) but I don’t have to pay for anything while I’m here so I don’t care.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Euro finally crashes and burns, but who knows how long they will drag that out.

I do have a couple of contingency plans. 1. Strike it rich renounce all connections and move to Monaco. 2. Move deeper into the 3rd world and start my own religion or 3. Return to the US and live in some remote mountain compound where I can be more or less self-dependent, of course bringing my very young GF with me, heck I’ll bring 3 or 4.

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