Proof vs Faith... Does it Matter?

Which is More Important?

This hub is inspired on a post by a fellow hubber. Some answers can be longer than others. A few of them become new hubs. The issue at hand is if one should get rid of faith and belief altogether in pursuit of factual answers. This is my reaction to that matter.

Proof is a stamped piece of paper with numbers written on it. Proof is for those that need it. Some rather walk the path feeling, or by pure instinct.

There are rational numbers and irrational numbers... They coexist in this organized chaos or chaotic organization we call Universe.

Some can’t walk without proof, some rather do without. Those that need proof should not be bothered by those that do not... and viceversa. Speaking of proof, just don't know what dictionary are you relying on for the definition of "paranoia" for that matter... Not that it matters.

Some call it "paranoia", others call it delusion... Others refer to them as loonies... A few call them believers. A selected crowd take these folks as visionaries.

What We See Comes From What We Do Not

All that we see today came from something that wasn't. The visible comes from the invisible. Somebody had this idea of the Sun being the center of the Universe, because that is what he saw, and that was enough proof. For centuries, everyone followed.

Until one started questioning, a woman, making circles in the sand. They called her what? Delusional or Paranoid? How could she be referring to something that no one could see? This woman needed a diagnosis.

Thousands of centuries before her, in a primitive tribe in Africa, an old folktale story went on about a star where every living creature and everything that we know came from.

This tribe, centuries ago, did not have telescopes, but pinpoint with almost technological precision the celestial body that science finally came to confirm in recent years. Now they don’t call them barbaric, now the scientists are left to wonder in amazement.

Some had this idea that bad spirits made children sick. Other started thinking that maybe it was the water, or the milk. People ridiculed him. The water looked just fine. There were no microscopes then, many died before another was able to see any further.

From CrazyGata to Crazy Elephant!

Do you have children? Not meaning to get personal but have you seen this movie “Horton Hears the Who?” Well, seems like I am the crazy elephant and you are the kangaroo! I mean, her slogan fits you perfectly “If you can’t see it, and if you can’t hear it, then it doesn’t exist”.

Can you see your mind? Can you touch your thoughts? Can you hear your feelings? How heavy is your mercy? How tall is your love? How deep is your pain? Some put a price tag on fear... What is that evolving inside of you? Of us? I can feel it but I cannot see it... But something tells me is there, somehow that something guides me... One sits still and something is there... Is it the voice of delusion? Or is that what connects us with the whole? Math and sciences emerged from philosophy. We are One. All is connected. Same elements in us are in the stars. Old tribes said it centuries before, we come from the stars. Science confirmed it recently. Faith is part of being human. Some have their faith in facts and figures... Others have their faith in stories... And that keeps them going.

Stories Keep The World Turning Around

The world runs fueled by ideas, delusions (or “paranoia” if one insists on the term). Economics, financial statements, estimated earnings, analysts reports, security, national defense, feeling safe... the national budget... George Washington never said a lie... The Twin Towers collapsed symmetrically straight down in 10 seconds flat after aircraft side-way impact... All fairy tales with nice gnomes in the form of uptrend graphics and embedded illusions in the form of numbers and fantastic statistics. Tells of ends of worlds and food shortage and we not been able to fit because there will be 9 billion of us. Yet we laugh at our children believing in Santa Claus. Why not let them believe that Jesus chatted with the Devil?

Did you know that during the Great Depression the national debt was cut in half? Just like that, all forgotten... They could do it now, of course they could. But they rather feed us stories.

How about the news? Those are truly mythical stories! The President addressing the country? Politicians debating? The speculation over gas prices? Self-fulfilled prophecies? Some fairy tales are indeed costly. Especially when you find such high amount of believers buying into them!

Humans Are 65% Emotions

The human body is about 65% water. Did you know water responds to emotions? Well OK, not emotions but music! This has been scientifically proven, check out the video here! We talk about facts, yet we do it with passion, and we get aggravated when people don’t see it our way, or frustrated when we can’t get our point across or assume postures... pure emotions. The stock market is nothing but fear and greed in motion.

We are emotional creatures in a fragile case of facts and figures.

This is why laughter, or connecting with another in an emotional level is so important. Patch Addams, that funny doctor portrayed by Robin Williams, against all odds, faced the mockery of his peers because he felt he was right, that laughter has healing power.

Look into what we have in common, indulge in our humanity. This is the key to Stephen Colbert success! He took the truth and made it truthiness, and people bought into it, because it made them laugh! Well, does that did, anyhow... That is exactly the point, some will and some won’t. And that is OK.

That was not the purpose of my original article, but since the issue was brought up in regards to what should matter, faith or proof, my answer is, “do as you will and do not be bothered”.

I want to walk on the water with my eyes closed and my arms wide open.

Some Believe in God, Others Believe in Einstein

So others will resort to label those that don’t see it their way. This is as old as Humanity itself, and is the closest to call anybody “chicken”. Kind of high school if you ask me, but all the same, pure emotion at play.

Religions, myth, superstitions, folklore, speculations, “recent studies show” and pharmaceutical ads all fit for the human psyche. We have a need to believe, we have a need to confirm the ground we stand, our paradigms, our theories... or better yet, our innate feelings, doubts and primal instincts.

Now there is proof that not only the Earth gravitates around the Sun, but the Sun also gravitates around who knows, one could only speculate, right? Or dream it, or make a movie about it! And who knows, maybe that dream turns out to be right. Some scientist decides to challenge the movie and voilá, more proof for those that remain by the trenches awaiting for it.

Even Einstein would give you some points for your diagnosis, I would still agree with him that “Imagination is more important than knowledge”, or better yet "the concept of a soul without a body seems to me to be empty and devoid of meaning".

More by this Author


What does your gut tell you? 21 comments

Philanthropy2012 profile image

Philanthropy2012 4 years ago from London

Proof is not a piece of paper with numbers on it. It is something you can show to other people who will then subsequently believe you because of what they have seen.

When you preach about faith based decisions, you attempt to rationalise just like all of the murderers with whispers in their heads.

To act upon the basis of nothing but your own feeling is a very dangerous event. Would you want your children to run into the road on what they are feeling inside, or would you want them to look left and right first?


CrazyGata profile image

CrazyGata 4 years ago from Puerto Rico Author

Thank you for posting.

Would you say right now you acted upon proof or your feelings?

If the world were to trust our children's feelings we wouldn't need to worry for murderers.


rodridon 4 years ago

In the Section "From CrazyGata to Crazy Elephant!", You question the Kangaroos belief of "If you can’t see it, and if you can’t hear it, then it doesn’t exist”.

Then You ask a bunch of questions, but not one is rational. Any question asked the wrong way can make anyone think it is illogical.

Examples;

Can you see your mind? No but you can hear it through brainwaves, and you can use it.

Can you touch your thoughts? No but only you can hear them and respond to them.

Can you hear your feelings? No, but you can feel them and have a physical and emotional reaction to them.

How heavy is your mercy? How tall is your love? How deep is your pain? These are all figure of speech questions.

I understand your point of "Live and let live", Yet I don't see non-believers pushing their non-belief on believers. I do see believers not only pushing their beliefs, but lately they even try to influence laws. Maybe your next hub should be on the separation of church and state.


WretchedRapture profile image

WretchedRapture 4 years ago from California, USA

Proof is for those that need it, as is faith. Imagination is very important, as it inspires our quest for truth on a daily basis. But I believe that this is a two-way street. Without proof, or some sort of factual basis, would we be able to distinguish or imaginative creations from truths?


CrazyGata profile image

CrazyGata 4 years ago from Puerto Rico Author

Thank you very much for reading and posting Don and WretchedRapture.

Don, as the Crazy Elephant I asked the pertaining questions. One time a man wondered why and things would fall, during his college years, he was also considered crazy...

My questions have no intention of being rational, thank you for confirming that they are not. Mine is not a political standpoint but a philosophical one. Maybe is about time you come back in here and put your two cents on that matter. ;)

--

WretchedRapture of course I agree. Precisely in your comment of being "able to distinguish" relies the battle or the quest of the thinkers and the doers. Not a matter of perfection or straight arrows, but balance and flow... Thank you again.


CrazyGata profile image

CrazyGata 4 years ago from Puerto Rico Author

...on the other hand, what is NOT created by imagination?


Philanthropy2012 profile image

Philanthropy2012 4 years ago from London

CrazyGata,

"Would you say right now you acted upon proof or your feelings?"

I acted upon what seemed to me as irrevocable logic. Logical deductions are proof :)

"If the world were to trust our children's feelings we wouldn't need to worry for murderers."

That's 1) not true (murders are done out of passion), and 2) If children didn't look left or right at the road, they would get run over by cars :S

The world around you is founded by proof based decisions. Medicine, science, buildings, cars, all technology, all based on proof and not 'feelings'. It's incredibly wrong to propagate any diminished credit for the one thing that has allowed us to survive til now: logic.


CrazyGata profile image

CrazyGata 4 years ago from Puerto Rico Author

Irrevocable logic or subjective one? Who can claim to be an authority in such an elusive concept as logic?

Haven't you heard that common sense is not common?

Proof based decisions? Which ones? Name one proof based decision in this world and I'll show you its underlying myth, philosophy or imagination.

Have you checked your statistics on the rate of calculated murders vs murders done out of passion?

"Medicine, science, buildings, cars, all technology, all based" on IMAGINATION and 'IDEAS'

Especially science which branched out of philosophy. I mean, did you even read this hub or are you still proving my point of acting upon emotions before even considering what is being presented?


ImKarn23 profile image

ImKarn23 4 years ago

Lol..i have sooo much to say - so i shall just defer to the comments of my peers. Why - because you stir a hornets nest here, dear - as you know - and no matter how one goes round and round and round - nothing gets solved! I lean towards proof, personally - can't help it - it is what it is..


f_hruz profile image

f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Sure, humans do have emotions, dreams and ideas - what else can you tell us that's new?

Ahahaha ... lol

I hope you also know, we have brains, a mind, intellect and reason, etc. - and for you to go around reducing the enormous value of our ability to apply reason when it comes to examining our emotions, evaluation our dreams and shaping our ideas into practical actions, is about as stupid as can be!

Human thought can be of greater value not only to us individually based on our own irrational wimps, but on well thought out concepts, strategies, actions or policies to create the best possible results for the many who do not know what optimization, math, logic or rational thought even consists of.

To post such anti-intellectual nonsense is not even a creative literary expression or artistic contribution!

One can only wander what's missing in your head to post such trash? :)

With all due respect, but it should be quite obvious even to you that not every BS you come up with has the same value as some real human understanding and reason reflected in creative, scientific thought or some objective analysis of reality.


Philanthropy2012 profile image

Philanthropy2012 4 years ago from London

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Would just like to comment with the intent of praising the above comment by F_Hruz.


CrazyGata profile image

CrazyGata 4 years ago from Puerto Rico Author

It's ok my dear friends... but you see... every single post here... you talk about facts but you act emotionally...

Yes we say facts, yes... and then we watch the commercial or the latest gadget and go "oohhh" "aahhh".

Yes, yes its hard to admit we believe in fairy tales, like the one the doctor tells us when they prescribe antibiotics to our children. Or Celebrex, or sugary coated heart pumping cold pills.

I know I've stirred some EMOTIONS here. The only reason you are all posting is reacting to emotions, and personal perceptions which all of us are convinced they stand some SOLID ground.

When in fact we are all wanderers. One day we are here, debating, the other one needs a favor.

If not for dreams, imagination and emotions, what do I want a brain for?

Tell me which part of your "kind" words are based on intelligence or logic when is pure bashing?

And is OK... I insist your obvious aggravation (which is an emotion) keeps proving my point.

Literature? Where? Hahaha!! Now see? You done making me laugh as well.

My BS is your BS. We are all one. Bear in mind that the article is not written out of the blue, for those that needed proof, the videos and the related books should not seem so fairy tale to you.

They still do to me, they just ring as true "truthiness".

Breath in, breath out. I was like this before you met me, you were like that. That is exactly my point.

That fury that you portray here is the same intolerance that have banned and bashed many spirits before me.

They had many names before me. They also spoke about things that people didn't understand then.

And called them all the names in the world. So if you say I earn a place with them, I have to be honored and humbled.

I understand though. They had to kill them all. Just wondering if we were born with all that we are, why will we deny it and then replace it with external references instead of seeking a balance within the two?

I thought it was clear I wasn't talking about reality. Right now as you wrote those words, you were creating your reality.

If your words were words of haste, those were the vibrations that remained with you.

And maybe you came back to see if I already posted, vibrating in reaction to the emotions you expressed.

That became real because you made it real. Just like right now I decide to make real to let you know the reason those martyrs and witches and John Lennons and MLKs and Kennedys and Gandhis and Hypathias so many others were killed was because of the most terrible intolerance.

And I know now Humanity will never change. Institutions know this. You bark about logic. They feed you numbers. Sit. Roll. It's ok, numbers are in place.

They have never been. Historians sit just like us and write. Those words remain on a piece of paper. Then we go to school and memorize what they wrote and call that a fact. Pictures of white primitive men, yet the first humans are from Africa. White looks better. Stories.

This is not about reality, is about what creates reality.

Good stir. We agree to disagree, get our emotions back together and move on. Next time, bear in mind there is a human being on the other side of the monitor.

It might not harm you to embrace the sweet and tender side of your emotional self.


f_hruz profile image

f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Kisses darling ... I like you as a person!

I have read better hubs of yours and have commented positively - even in my fan post!

So ok, you don't have very strong logical thinking skills or a solid grounding in science, but I hope you can still try and learn a few things about how to get a better grasp on reality!

Let the hurt pass, but please do try and start to discover a more structured way of thinking, ok? :)

Don't add jam to shit to make it sweeter - learn what it takes to go through a bit of REAL mental development and REAL learning how to grow and expand your understanding so it's eventually a bit clearer to you what's rational and beneficial, and what's irrational and not at all beneficial to a better grasp of an objective sense of reality and a better life for you ... AND us ALL.

Not ALL ideas have the same value - but ONLY by using your own brains the best you know how, and adding to them a bit every day, will you learn to see the difference in all it's dimensions ...

Only you can learn for yourself - no gods will do the learning for you - and yes, you CAN grow and change to the better if you get yourself out of this mythological mind trap you have put yourself in, by the sounds of it!

Why not sort it ALL out with the help of some friends by using reason and an active mind instead of simply saying: "It's all the same, there is no difference" - which always was and remains stupid talk! ... :)

@ Philanthropy2012 - thanks for your comment! lol

Franto in Toronto


f_hruz profile image

f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Here is a very good example you like to add to your list .... http://www.youtube.com/v/sNDZb0KtJDk&hl


Deborah Brooks profile image

Deborah Brooks 4 years ago from Brownsville,TX

wow food for thought here,.. amazing writing. Love your hub. I would rather take Faith than Einstein, but that's just me

blessings

Debbie


CrazyGata profile image

CrazyGata 4 years ago from Puerto Rico Author

Einstein himself vouched for faith... ;) at the end of the day so do the rest of us... Thank you very much for taking the time to read and post.


f_hruz profile image

f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Faith is nothing but mindless story telling without a focus on reality!

Einstein had no use for any goods, nor do people like Bertrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXYTwuwsyI&feature...


CrazyGata profile image

CrazyGata 4 years ago from Puerto Rico Author

Clinical research, evidence, financial reports, media and other very well thought out "documents" are our new tailor made fairy tales.

http://futuredocsblog.com/2011/12/28/a-modern-day-...


ericdunbar profile image

ericdunbar 4 years ago from FORT WORTH

I would agree that we are emotional creatures as I have read a lot of emotionally triggered responses to your article. Everyone has a right to be original, because whether or not re realize it, we are all original creations.

You are very original CrazyGata, but that is who you are, so if you contributed nothing to the world you would be worth nothing to the world.

Keep contributing your thoughts. I disagree with a lot of what you say, but that's okay, because I'm original too!

This is what I believe about faith: Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen... yes that is from the Bible, Hebrews 11:1. But when one has faith, one acts on that faith. That is how things we now see were created.


f_hruz profile image

f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Hold on!

Humans have to come to terms with REALITY before the things we wanted to create actually got off the ground, turned on a light bulb or transmitted a radio or TV signal ... dreaming crazy religious dreams only creates crazy heads, does not refine our ability to think constructive thoughts or develop our intellect.

Being original is by far not enough ... that's what every American wants to be ... without raising their level of education or exerting any real intellectual effort!

That maybe enough for you and the way you see America ... but that's exactly why this place gets left behind by the rest of the world - ever more each day ...


CrazyGata profile image

CrazyGata 4 years ago from Puerto Rico Author

I am not aware if every American wants to be crazy or lazy, I know that thousands of them would be happy with some food on the table today. An idea, though inspired by its surroundings, emanates from within, oftentimes in crazy dreams.

In that note, I am not sure if we are even talking about the same reality... For me, reality is pure perception. For others, is only what they see as reality... with their own pair of eyes... and like the character depicted above, "if they don't see it, it doesn't exist"

Not sure either if any of this has anything to do with being original or not, or faithful for that matter. My position is that precisely the masses will have faith in what ends up being a systematic manipulation.

Of course, still as a non-Christian, I politely agree with the classical definition of faith and point it as one of the main culprits for this manipulation of the masses. Is like an unwritten commandment that reads "Thou shalt not question".

I have to thank all still for have taken this forum this far. We are all humans. There will always be things that we ignore... We can talk about education, yet to act as if we are educated can be a different story.

We can talk about faith and reality, but in the end, is our faith or our reality, which are not necessarily shared by billions of brains across the World.

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