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How To Solve Problems Writing On Line

Updated on September 2, 2012

Hubpages The Community

This hub has taken me a long time to think about and finally to put into words. First and foremost, let me start out by stating one very important fact - I love writing on Hubpages. I love 99% of the folks I have had the pleasure to read and interact with. I am in no way bashing Hubpages or its policies - for that matter I'm not bashing some of its writers either. I am simply writing about an experience near and dear to my own writing experience on Hubpages and I do so in the hopes that my writing this hub will encourage other new folks (or even veteran folks) - and perhaps save some of them a little heartache.

flickr markus rodder
flickr markus rodder

I started on Hubpages roughly 9 months ago. In that time, I have published 272 hubs and I've pretty much figured out what works for me and what doesn't. However, in November, shortly after joining, I came very close to quitting and had a bit of a real meltdown. I do not bring this up to garner sympathy or even empathy for myself. I bring this up because the reason for this terrible time in my life was directly related to something on Hubpages that was supposed to be 'helping me' - a place where I could go for answers to questions. This place was none other than our famous forums!

Let me say before I launch into my primary thoughts on my hub's title that I have since returned to the forums - albeit only recently! It took me that long to stop shuddering every time I saw the word and decide that I had just as much right to go there and post up my feelings, opinions, and helpful hints as anyone, that I needed to face down my fears and 'just do it'. I am happy to report that I have had many great experiences on the forums since - much to my relief.

However, in participating again in the forums, I have noticed a few things and hence my hub. I ask you to consider these things in the spirit that they are delivered - an honest person trying to improve a situation in our community known as Hubpages. While I applaud free speech and the right to say anything and everything, I do find the following things that I feel are a bit 'off' and feel that I should point them out.

You Might Be A HubPages Snob If.....

As in Jeff Foxworthy's You Might Be A Redneck If.....I offer up the following thoughts for those of you that seem to troll the forums and the only time you have something to say, it is usually negative.

You Might Be a HubPages Snob If

  • You never sign on and read anyone's hubs but you spend all your time in the forums
  • You are in the forums but you never post on anything remotely resembling 'banter' - you are all about being curt to other hubbers or pointing out how stupid they are
  • You leave answers to questions on the forums that read something like this 'You have to be kidding, right?'
  • You post up statements to the effect that you never bother to read anyone on HubPages because in your opinion, no one is worth reading - I'm sorry but 'wow'!
  • You give false information to people because you think it's hilarious for new people to 'take the bait' and then you make fun of them once they do - like making more than $20,000 per month on hubs
  • You can't be bothered to answer people's comments on your own hubpages
  • You constantly point out how ignorant other hubbers are and how they have obviously not read the FAQs - you know this how?  And you understand that others maybe don't 'absorb' certain points while others do?
  • You have nothing to post that is not insulting and/or sarcastic
  • You threaten people with being banned or kicked off hubpages without even reading their hubs

Musings on HubPages - The Concept

What is the definition of a community? Here are a couple to ponder:

  • A group of people that interact with each other for the betterment of each other
  • Individuals interdependent upon each other for mutual benefit
  • Social cohesion

When I read many of the forum postings, I see many helpful postings that are exactly the definition of the entities above. However, I also see many postings such as my detailed list above that most definitely are not positive, are most definitely not helpful in any way, shape or form to especially new hubbers, and that frankly in my humble opinion are downright insulting.

After my bout with the forums in November, one hubber published a hub that could be construed as directed right at me and my questions. I never complained about it because to be honest, I just wanted to put the whole ugly episode behind me. My name was not directly mentioned but there was no doubt in my mind who the target of this hub was.

I am not naive enough to believe that we all have to get along - take the world for example. There will always be conflict; there will always be disagreements and there will always be people who are happy people and people who are just jerks. All that said, however, the problem I have with the 'negative attitudes' on the forums is that this is a writing community. This is a place that supposedly encourages folks to express themselves and do something that is such a privilege - write!

The thing that bothers me most is that I think some people are turned off by hubpages because of the responses that they get on the forums. I won't mention names but I have heard from a good number of people that they have had similar experiences to mine with several of the same hubbers. I of course will not mention the hubbers names because I may be honest but I'm not stupid! I don't want to be kicked off hubpages for speaking out against certain hubbers, although in the case of the forums 'incident' I did lodge a complaint. Not that it did any good but still I think that is the way to handle things. NOT going after the person directly and causing a scene - but I think the 'gods of hubpages' should know people's opinions.

I believe that anything in life can be done with grace - and kindness. There is a way to say something that does not offend. There is a way to answer a question without hurting someone. There is a way to mentor and there is a way to insult people so soundly that they don't even believe in their ability anymore. Is that what writing means to these people? I have to wonder.

The other point I feel is important to bring up is why do these people only concentrate on forums where they can 'bash people'? That is an indicator right there to me that they have an ego that they have to satisfy every day by beating up on someone else to make themselves appear greater than they are - people that feel good about themselves at anything don't have to put down other people to be #1.

Another point - if these hubbers are so 'the genuine' article - i.e. the Hemingways of HubPages or of the literary world for that matter, what the heck are they doing on here? Isn't there a literary prize they should be trying to achieve - or aren't there other arenas for their writing that would be less 'tedious' in terms of having to deal with so many idiots? My point being - consider the source. I finally came to the conclusion that these people need to build up their own egos so they try to tear down other people's.

If these people feel that they are so 'superior' as to not even have to answer other hubbers' comments, why would they bother posting a comment section at all - except to flatter themselves? I followed many folks for a long time but it became evident to me who would answer my comments and who thought so little of the rest of us that they could not be bothered to even acknowledge a heartfelt comment. I did not expect these hubbers to jump over to my hubs and read mine - I only expected to be acknowledged for taking the time to comment.

Finally, I have a really hard time believing with all the tens of thousands of hubs that we put up that for some of these elitists there is not ONE hub of worth in their eyes. That not one person among us can possibly be as great or write 'adequately' enough to be read.

Suggestions and Challenges

I realize that nothing in life is perfect - no system is ever perfect and you will always have groups of people who think they are better than the rest of us. My solution to avoiding the forums served a purpose for me - it allowed me to go on writing and to avoid any further conflicts.

By the way - my question had been why did I have a duplicate on my hub. I was listing a Thanksgiving dinner ensemble (all of the recipes which I attributed). Then when I thought that I had overdone it (too much info in 1 hub), I went back and broke down the 2 'main' recipes. That's when the duplicate flag showed up. However, as it turns out - after ALL those insults - the duplicate was on ME - I had changed up the new hubs with different everything - except the recipe. I was told later when the dust settled that it was perfectly acceptable and fine - that they in fact had made a mistake. However, by then I was so upset by all the rude comments that I took the new hubs off and just decided to never look at it again.

I believe in a 'code of ethics' in dealing with anyone - but especially in an Internet community such as this. These are some of my beliefs:

  • Never say anything to anyone you would not want said to you
  • There is a way to say things and a way NOT to say something - and guess what - we all know deep down what that way is
  • If you think you're being sarcastic - guess what - you are - there isn't a place for sarcasm unless it is humorous and it is part of the 'dialogue' - giving as good as you got and joking back and forth
  • If you can't say anything nice - shut up! There is no place for people beating up on other people. I have read things such as 'Is English your first language - obviously not' - what kind of thing is that to say to someone when we have people from all over the world on here?
  • Ask yourself before you write out a comment - 'How is this helping this person?' or 'Is this helping?' - If you don't have a really, really good HONEST answer, you're writing the wrong thing
  • Try really, really hard to remember when you first started out - you obviously started somewhere or were you born with a computer and hubpages loaded from the cradle? Did people talk to you this way? Gosh I hope not!
  • Who were your mentors - or are you ticked because you didn't have one and you had to learn the hard way?
  • Try thinking outside your own narrow window of what you consider good writing - I think all of us can learn from each other and even if we don't 'like', 'agree', or 'applaud' another writer's hubs, the least we can do is have the common courtesy to look at a few before passing judgment on all of them
  • Remember, ignorance is bliss
  • In all that we do in life, I believe that most of what we should do is with kindness - try to remember what that concept means. Sarcasm and blatantly calling people stupid is NOT kind
  • Try and go for a day without finding a forum that you can bash someone on - maybe take a day off and troll for spam (I know many of you do this as well - and I do thank you for that). Here's a thought - respond on a 'nonsense' forum and give us all a heart attack - and write something funny!
  • Put yourself in someone else's moccasins for a moment before you spout off - think about how many hubs they have published and realize that they probably are worried sick about being good enough already - or getting it 'right'
  • Find other things in your life to kick or beat up on if you need to make yourself feel better this way - only please don't take it out on your children, your family or your pets!
  • If you have so many answers and are so great at writing, start your own e-zine or write an e-book and then come back and tell us all where to find this fabulous information!
  • In short, be a good example and don't associate your writing talent with being a snot or a snob. Really - do you want people to think of you that way? I certainly don't want my name associated with 'that Audrey - she's such a witch!' I want to be read for my unique style of writing but I also want more than anything to make a difference with my writing - and guess what - writing also includes comments and answers.
  • Have a care - life is precious and so are people. Think of every question you answer as if someone next door was asking it face to face - don't hide behind the Internet to throw your punches and hurt other people. Talk to them in writing the way you would talk to them in real life - now there's a thought! If you talked to them in real life like that, you might get a real live punch in the face - so think before you speak/write.
  • Use your time to write for yourself and read - whether it is on here or any other venue. Writing and reading to me are the most priceless of gifts.

Summing It Up

After the recent Hubbalicious contest, I also read a post on a forum or somewhere from a 'veteran' who was asking about the contest - was it any good, etc. etc. Now that puzzled me because anyone could have read any number of the wonderful hubs that were published and seen for themselves.

Perhaps in thinking about it, this hubber in particular is only worried about his or her rewards as part of the community and what is being made on the hubs as this hubber also posted the comment 'I only hope there were some decent people writing (or something to this effect) and that this will result in more traffic to our hubs'.

Well, that pretty much spells out some of the attitudes that I'm seeing and that makes me a little upset. If we are all in this together, shouldn't we all work together and help each other in small ways - such as answering questions, hub hopping, taking the time to answer fan mail and comments? If we do not want to do these things, then why the heck are we on here? That is just a puzzle to me - oh yeah - the dough. Got it - of course we all want to reap the benefits of the money; but I am of the mind that you reap what you sow and all that jazz.

Lastly, can someone be a little bit of a snob? No way - you either are or you are not. You know what you are.  Just like you cannot be a little bit of a bigot - you are or you aren't. You can't be a 'little' sensitive - you either are or you aren't.

As one who is sensitive, I guess I feel for some of the new people joining and perhaps if that incident had happened to me for instance the first week or so, I'd have gone running with my tail between my legs. I don't need that kind of insulting 'crap' in my life to be honest. I was one of the lucky ones though who had been on a while, I had some fans and I was able to pull myself out of the pit and go on.

I urge you non-snobby hubbers (and there are SOOOO many good people I love on here - both for their writing and their attitudes) to reach out and hit the forums. By posting positive comments, I think we can negate some of the things that some of these folks say - or at least direct new or stumbling folks to the team at hubpages. That's by the way where I decided to go instead of the forums - it seemed to work much better in my case.

Life is a learning experience and I go by the adage that no question is a dumb question - and also as well that no one likes being made to feel like an idiot for asking a question.

Shame on you snobby hubbers for not thinking about that and shame on you for not being a better example of what a good writer is. A good writer is someone who has many qualities and insights and I think right up at the top is empathy. All your writing may earn you bucks and high marks/scores - but if you are a lousy person, who cares? In my book, I'd rather have it all and that's my goal.

I do thank you though for helping me - in a roundabout way you made me gain confidence in myself and not depend on your haughty opinions. That is a far better position for me to be in so I have to be grateful for that little slippery slope!

Most of all, fellow hubbers, keep up the good work. I find you all such fascinating people and it is always a pleasure to be part of your lives! What a gift we have to be on here and interacting!  That is the part that brought me back and convinced me to stay.

Don't Be an Internet Snob!


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    • TravelAbout profile image

      Katheryn 6 years ago from United States

      I am new here also. I joined 11 months ago but other things needed my attention so I did almost nothing. I have returned and I have noticed many of the things you mention. Here is my thought; whenever you have groups of people you will always get the good, bad and ugly. I won't say "don't let it bother you", because it will. Just remember some children just don't know how to play nicely and you just have to ignore them.

    • daisyf1305 profile image

      Daisy Fabelo 6 years ago from miami beach

      your awesome whay you write is amazing and haters will do and say anything to bring us down. That's why they are haters.... Please don't quit because of hate there are many hubbers that hub and truly enjoy your words.

    • Rain Defence profile image

      Rain Defence 6 years ago from UK

      I wouldn't be bothered about something somebody wrote on a forum in real life to be honest. I know there are plenty of no brainers out there, I certainly wouldn't let it upset me though.

      I have found the forums here just to be about one major topic, arguing about religion. It's a pointless argument as neither side are going to change their mind, so any time spent doing it is wasted. Since the majority of the forums seem to consist of this topic, I do look at them a bit, but don't spend much time there as I find the same argument again and again to be pretty boring.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks so much for stopping by, Dream On, and I do think there are some wonderful people on here....just don't like the ones that pick at and on other people. Isn't life crazy enough as it is? Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!

    • DREAM ON profile image

      DREAM ON 7 years ago

      You have made so many good points.I am glad for the most part hubbers are like you .Trying to help other less experienced hubbers get better.Leaving comments so we can improve and write more hubs.Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks Diane for visiting and like you, I went, I saw, I freaked, then I stayed away for months and months. I only recently went back and when I found that the same trolls and rude people were posting up those comments, I guess I just decided enough!

      Not sure if it will do any good but I like to reinforce what is simply MANNERS in my humble opinion and it does strike me as so very odd in a WRITING ENVIRONMENT how people can act so small and so snotty. I think perhaps I am rather vain or at least I care about how I project myself to the world in ANY venue though - and I would not want people to think of me that way at all.

      I hope it does some good - I sometimes wonder if it does but thanks for giving me another ray of hope!

    • Diane Inside profile image

      Diane Inside 7 years ago

      You certainly have given alot of people alot to think about, I used to love the forums as well, and I still visit them briefly. I have to admit I have had some, attack me as well on some of the forums, and I have probably retaliated inappropriately. which is why i try not to be provoked and stay away from such obvious ploys to draw someone in to only be met with arguement. Thanks for this it is a real eye onpener. I hope people read this and take it to heart.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      I completely agree with you! Those of us who have a life probably only occasionally go on there and try to get acquainted, etc. I now go just to keep an eye out for new folks and 'snotty' comments to be honest. I try and leave something positive and hope that the poor person came back to read it!

      I'm just not a big fan of bullies I guess and/or trolls and that was the point (I think) of my hub - if they are so talented, what are they DOING on there wasting precious writing time beating people up? It makes no sense to me but then I'm old and blond! ha ha

      Congrats on the baby - my middle boy was born in September and always remember it as a magical time as my other 2 were born in April. See you most definitely on the hubs - and everyone occasionally needs to take a bit of time off and regroup, refocus and then hit it again. I do the same but usually only for a week at max although I think my longest 'absence' was 11 or 14 days.

    • wannabwestern profile image

      Carolyn Augustine 7 years ago from Iowa

      I honestly don't know why the trolls spend so much time on the forums. I have wondered more than once if they figured out a way to monetize their time there? I've never enjoyed "hanging out" on the forums for extended periods and just think that some of those folks have nothing better to do. I love HP too but will probably continue to go AWOL every so often. I'm due to have another baby at the end of September, and we may also move right before, during, or after that time. Things happen but I always come back. Loved your sweet comments on my screaming toddler hub, too. Thanks!

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks so much WW for stopping by and for the lovely comments. I truly agree with you - we all have bad days and maybe we do 'kick the dog' (in my case) or the cat. I just have noticed though as you say some 'trolls' that seem to derive immense pleasure from hurting others by their remarks and wonder how they can possibly have SO MANY bad days or is it a personality thing?

      My experience on HP has gone from 0 to 100 to be honest since this incident and I only wrote it because I had noticed after such a long, long absence from the forums that these same trolls were still there and realized that it really had nothing at all to do with me at all last fall - it was them being them.

      I guess I just wanted to maybe encourage other folks that it wasn't them - to shine it on and not think about quitting, which I did. Call me sensitive but I just don't believe in people being rude - especially using their talent for 'evil'. As so-called writers, I think we can do better than that, especially amongst our own 'kind'. But that is just me being PolyAnna!

      I do so appreciate your comments and wish you all the best as well! Thanks for taking the time to read and most of all leave such a thoughtful comment on some of the behaviors on HP. I love writing here and don't plan on going AWOL for any reason!

    • wannabwestern profile image

      Carolyn Augustine 7 years ago from Iowa

      I appreciate this thoughtful hub. I hope I am not one of your HP snobs. I think HP has great things to offer but I think that people who don't expect to encounter the trolls in the forums should brace themselves. They seem to live there under a bridge.

      Personally I don't have a lot of time to hang in forums and expect this is the case for many hubbers. Love to write and enjoy the rest, but think that maintaining around all of life's challenges can cause people to go AWOL from HP for awhile. I know I have two or three times.

      I try to be positive to a fault in my personal life, but every once in a while I have a bad day. "Kicking the Cat" is the name of the behavior you described in your hub, and it is a juvenile approach. But if I might play devil's advocate a bit, I think sometimes people just have bad days or they make remarks without thinking. I don't know exactly what inspired you to write this piece, and guess I don't really want to, but I hope that your experience here at HP has improved immensely and enjoy what I have read so far! You seem like a great writer to me!

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks Katie - wouldn't it be nice if peace and tranquility reigned throughout the land? Even in hubberville, we can't seem to 'get it right' all the time but I hope we'll work harder at being kinder...I also wish the same for the world. To me, it's a no-brainer but sometimes people just don't think about it I guess!

    • katiem2 profile image

      katiem2 7 years ago from I'm outta here

      Well I now feel we all have closure, thanks for that akirchner and now we can get on with being upstanding hubbers and spread peace, harmony and joy where ever we write.... Peace :)

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Sure thing! Thanks again, GH!

    • Granny's House profile image

      Granny's House 7 years ago from Older and Hopefully Wiser Time

      Thank you for the info.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks for stopping in, Granny's House. That is not my purpose though and I am going back now all the time and trying to point out what I think are offensive remarks - I may have a rather busy career! Seriously, there are a LOT of good people on there so don't stay away because of a few. Just know that there are those bullies out there and always check with someone else before you believe what they say!

    • Granny's House profile image

      Granny's House 7 years ago from Older and Hopefully Wiser Time

      I have never been to the forums and now I know I don't want to. Thanks for the heads up.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Bayoulady - I think a little of both! That's what I mean though - if we are writers and that's all we care about, why use our 'talent' for evil is my question. If you don't have something kind to say, I believe that folks should just be quiet! Thanks so much for stopping by and welcome to hubpages!

    • bayoulady profile image

      bayoulady 7 years ago from Northern Louisiana,USA

      I appreciate the writer and the comments. As a fairly new new hubber myself, so far so good.

      I have ,however,seen some rather hurtful comments on the forums. Take,for instance, some that visit on the Christian forums. I wonder why "they" visit there? They proudly state that there is no God. So it seems to me that they come to ridicule our beliefs and make hurtful comments.

      Puzzled. I 'm not sure if it is snobery or just mean-spirited.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      I know Dolores - thanks for commenting! I just don't like bullies and feel badly that other folks have had similar experiences as well. I appreciate your input, however!

    • Dolores Monet profile image

      Dolores Monet 7 years ago from East Coast, United States

      Audrey, sometimes HP is kind of like high school. Most people are nice, but once in a while you get mixed up with the stinkers. And they seem to hang out in certain areas, certain forums instead of street corners. Just don't go there.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks, Katie for returning to comment. I think we are all agreeing on most everything. I do believe Hubpages IS a community and as such, we do need to treat others with respect and dignity - no matter how stupid we feel questions are, etc. That is just part of life I guess. I think some folks hide behind the internet veneer and would never say these kinds of things to folks face-to-face. I think we should all keep that in mind from time to time. Thanks again so much for revisiting!

    • katiem2 profile image

      katiem2 7 years ago from I'm outta here

      OMG, I just missed you in the forum, I commented back a min ago. I'm so with HABEE she's got it nailed. There are no Hemingway's here but if so they would not be mean and nasty. An upstanding community of any kind should never support ill and mean spirited behavior by turning a blind eye to it's existence. Please, Really, As IF! This is a great and honest hub. Marisa is actually a helpful person here and this in no way applies to her, we all know that :) I say we ignore the mean and rude few that obviously have serious issues. Accentuate the positive and ignore the rest! Peace :)

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Katie - Too funny - I know SHE has sisters and maybe a brother or two. There is no place for it and I feel okay about saying that. Especially in an environment where we should be encouraging writing, I'm sorry but I just don't get the bully factor. Mentoring yes, beating someone up hiding behind a computer - not so priceless! Thanks so much for commenting!

    • katiem2 profile image

      katiem2 7 years ago from I'm outta here

      Oh girl, I'm def no snob but I do know EXACTLY who your talking about. SHE left a rude comment or two on a few of my hubs, she blasted me for not pointing certain things out when IN FACT I did. Recipes, LOL what a joke, she needs to get a life. I will def talk to you in the forums. I get this all the time and ignore the haters. there are some bullys or is it bullies or bullees, dang I'm so stupid I can't write...or spell, haters on here and we just gotta keep ignoring them... Great hub and I'm with you!

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Prasetio - You probably would see them if you visited the forums but for the most part as I pointed out, most folks on here that we all know are great! Thanks so much for commenting.

      MPG Narratives - Completely agree - trolls or bullies fits for me! Thanks so much for being a fan but most of all, thanks for reading me!

      Spanky - YEP - You nailed it! We all know negative comments when we read them and that was what I am saying - thinks like 'You've got to be kidding me, right?' That doesn't sound very articulate for someone who thinks of himself or herself as Hemingway-esque when someone is asking a legit question (and not one of the above).

      In my bubble world, I truly believe there is NO place for nastiness or nasty attitudes as you put it. There is always a way to say something and a way NOT to say something - even if it means saying nothing at all if you can't hold your tongue.

      Appreciate your valuable input - as always! Happy vacation!!!

    • habee profile image

      Holle Abee 7 years ago from Georgia

      Buckie, I know what you're talking about with newbies. I can totally understand the "old pros" getting frustrated when a newcomer comes on the forums and asks questions like:

      1. I've been here for 2 days. Why haven't I made money?

      2. What social sites can I backlink to?

      3. When will I get paid by Google?

      All of these are addressed in a range of forums and hubs. I don't think that's what you're talking about, however. You're talking about nasty attitudes, right? The very few (thankfully so) hubbers who think they're Hemingway and everyone else is an illiterate idiot! lol

    • MPG Narratives profile image

      Marie Giunta 7 years ago from Sydney, Australia

      I think these people are called "trolls". They just go around all sorts of forums and leave negative, sometimes abusive comments. Don't take any notice of them and just enjoy the 99% of us who enjoy what you do. Well done for being so honest and I'm glad you stayed and I'm a fan.

    • prasetio30 profile image

      prasetio30 7 years ago from malang-indonesia

      I am not really familiar with hubpages snob. But it looks interesting. I say congratulations for you as a productive writer on HP. And I found many useful tips from you. Thank you very much. Thumbs up for you.


    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Dawn - Thanks so much for commenting and I am not so much concerned with the comments I receive as how new people perceive us as a community. I feel badly if anyone ever has to get their ego put into the dirt by 'veteran hubbers'. They may be veteran hubbers but there is a nice way to tell someone something and a totally crappy way to tell them. I feel that a few veterans are getting away with murder to be honest. They not only hack away at people but they hack away when the person is asking QUESTIONS. That is just plain wrong.

      I also feel that people should at least acknowledge people for leaving comments - that is the comment part that doesn't make sense to me. No one is under any obligation to leave comments and as a writer, shouldn't we be grateful to be read after all?

      Thanks again for taking the time to comment so articulately!

      mquee - Thanks so much for stopping by! That is what I'm talking about - those comments that are totally useless and mean. That is what I don't understand because again, as a writing community, shouldn't we have a care about what we write ANYWHERE? If you are using your 'talent' to hurt others, then I think maybe you should think about a different career or hobby, whichever this is for you. I don't believe in people beating up on others pure and simple and if something can't be said in a kind manner it probably shouldn't be said! Again, thanks for your articulate comment!

    • mquee profile image

      mquee 7 years ago from Columbia, SC

      This is obviously well thought out. I have visited forums on occasion, but there always seems to be a remark or two that makes me change my mind about participating. I think you have articulated what many people feel. Very refreshing hub and thank you for taking the time to put it together.

    • dawnM profile image

      Dawn Michael 7 years ago from THOUSAND OAKS

      well akirchner I think that you are great and the time that you spend leaving the detailed comments that you do is outstanding to your character! You are unique and what you put out will come back but in spirts because there are not that many people that take the time that you do and that is ok because that is what makes you special!!! So my simple advice is to continue to be you and and let the snobs be snobs, because at the end of the day you wil have people who follow you, respect you and leave you great comments!!!!!!!!

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Marisa - I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I am not speaking of simply not going on people's hubs and not commenting. I am talking about my OWN experience on the forums most specifically and the comments that I see from certain and specific hubbers that continue almost a year later.

      I feel that their comments are totally inappropriate and snotty - that is my definition of being a snob. I'm sorry if I have offended your sensibilities on the subject of community but I believe that in a writing community such as we have here, there is no room for insults such as these - ESPECIALLY towards new people - which I was at the time that this happened to me...and I almost quit because of the unkind things that were said.

      While I can take constructive criticism or 'help', their comments were pathetically insulting and as I said, they did not even BOTHER to read the hubs in question, which says a lot. If they are so busy working the forums and giving up their free time, I guess reading someone's hub before making comments like those would have held more water? However, I think that there are some folks out there that just get their jollies on beating up other people and that is what I was talking about.

      I also believe that if someone takes the time to actually comment on someone's hub, they could have the common decency to thank them or at least address them. I'm sorry but to me that is 'good manners' and also 'good business'.

      I think you did not quite get the scope of my hub and for that, I apologize I guess. If you have any further questions though on what I meant, I'd be more than happy to discuss those!

    • Marisa Wright profile image

      Kate Swanson 7 years ago from Sydney

      Akirchner, I'm probably a snob by your definition. However, I feel you need to read my Hub on HubPages Etiquette before you condemn people so lightly.

      HubPages was not created to be a community. The community has grown up all by itself and is a lovely bonus of writing on Hubpages. However, the purpose of HubPages is to write articles to make money. It's a business.

      Not one of the social aspects of Hubbing - reading other people's Hubs, following, commenting, thumbing - contributes to income. If people are members of HubPages to participate in the business of Hubbing, the social aspects of Hubbing are a pleasant but dangerous diversion from their goals, because of the huge amount of time they consume. That's why many "business" Hubbers shy away from those activities.

      Nevertheless, several "business" Hubbers give generously of their time in the forums to help newbies. True, some of them get impatient when people aren't willing to put in the effort - and some of them are straightforward and to the point, which some people read as abrupt. But it's intolerant, rude and unfair to call them snobs or accuse them of somehow doing the wrong thing on HubPages.

      If someone chooses not to participate in the social side of Hubbing, they're doing you no harm. Live and let live.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Nellie - that's why we are 2 pals of a kind! It's all good!

    • Nell Rose profile image

      Nell Rose 7 years ago from England

      Hi, I love your crazy stories! ha ha the trouble is that mine are even crazier! hee hee cheers nell

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      BJ - You are my hero! If I need any dragons slain, you will be the first I call. Actually, I decided much in my Audreyesque fashion not to let it keep bothering me, although it took quite a while and the urgings of Holle to get me to go back. Then when I did go back, I got hot mad within a few reads! Those same jerks were still there inflating their own egos and blasting everyone left and right. That tore it!

      I believe that anger has a place but only if it leads to change - usually in the one who is angry! I needed to channel that anger and angst I guess at something that happened to me so I've been steadily trying to visit the forums and look for those comments on purpose that I think are rude and offensive. I have decided to report them - for whatever it is worth - but hubpages encourages us to do that. And not only that - I have been trying to leave uplifting comments - just in case the poor folks have the courage to come back! I shall be the new support bra of hubpages if I have anything to say about it! I hear there may be a change in the air but we shall see - the powers that be are listening I think and they may decide to give US the power to vote these folks down when we read their comments - if it is a common agreement amongst the gods. Wouldn't THAT be sweet?

      I, however, only deal in realities (as much as possible) and I love what I do now on here and I love my friends I've found. It is such a privilege to write that I cannot imagine using your talent for evil! To me, what they are doing is just that.

      Thanks for being there, BJ - and thanks so much for offering to stand with me - or lead the charge while I sit and cry on a rock! Nah - sometimes I get to be a little emotional girl but most often I get back up and come out fighting. I really have a problem with people getting beaten up!

      Freya - I sent you a personal email - what do you mean Charlie's gone? Oy vey - I'm having a bit of a heart flutter over it!

      Pamela - I'm so sorry for YOU having someone insinuate you were stupid! That is the worst ever. My mom a few years back had a thing where she kept calling me stupid because I did not do political spewing like she does and it really hurt. I don't take well to being called stupid - by ANYONE.

      I do feel that people who do this have an ego problem and obviously a problem with their self esteem to be honest. If they felt so dang positive about themselves, why go around beating up on other people.

      I also believe life is short - what the heck is wasting time being ugly about? And in a writing arena that truly made me really sick to tell the truth. That is all that we do on hubpages is write. That's why I like it so much. To waste valuable time and effort in using it to hurt other people just seems wrong.

      Thanks for being there for me - and thanks for taking the time to read and comment. I do believe in solidarity and I believe that together, we can all make it a better place - wherever that place may be. I believe in being kind to people no matter what and as I said a bunch of times, my plan is to counteract some of this 'crap' by leaving better comments. And I do plan to report the worst of the comments each and every time. That is just my way of trying to make it a better place I guess - and I am angry that they made me turn tail and run.

      You do a wonderful job - and am so glad I've met you! See you the next time!

    • Pamela99 profile image

      Pamela Oglesby 7 years ago from United States

      Audry, I don't go on the forums often because of this very problem. I'm glad you wrote this hub as you really explained how many of us feel when verbally attacked.

      I had a comment on one of my hubs very recently that started out in a very condescending manner implying I was stupid, etc. I think those kind of people must have a miserable life to willfully make comments that are so condescending. I try not to let them bother me much and I will post their comment as I believe in free speech but I will not get into one of these situations where people are squabbling back and forth in the comment section.

      You are right that most people are nice thank goodness. I love your guidelines and I like Hubpages. Rated up!

    • Freya Cesare profile image

      Freya Cesare 7 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

      Audrey, did you heard? Charlie is gone! :(

    • drbj profile image

      drbj and sherry 7 years ago from south Florida

      Dearest Audrey - I am so angry about your early experience in the forums that I am gnashing my teeth and visualizing the decapitation of any and all of the surly folk who with their rude sarcasm and ignorant manner gave you such pain.

      May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their armpits! no, make that ten thousand camels!

      I visit the forums only when someone refers me to a topic or question that has been asked. Otherwise, I do not find them to be worth my time. I would rather write and comment and banter - especially with you.

      So forget those trolls and continue to write your delicious and erudite hubs and I will continue to be your fan and if you wish, slay a dragon or two or three.

      Promise. bj

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Nellie - Exactly - I figured if it's in there, it must be in there for some good old reason, right? Seriously, I have been totally okay (well 99%) with what those snobs did to me and figure really 'screw them'. But the fact that they are still on there doing it to other people really got me steamed! That plus the fact that I can kinda tell by the meek and mild answers that they have shaken up someone else and THAT did it!

      I am famous for charging in on my white horse I guess when I feel someone is being wronged - or I just need to stand up for someone like I did with my sis when we were kids. I usually throw a lot of words around and a few punches but I'm not very powerful and I know it. But then on the other hand, if we don't fight back, then that makes all the bullies feel like it's okay and that I can't do!

      You never have to worry about being a snob - you answer ALL comments and have great charisma and feedback. You are one of my treasured friends and one of the people who made me feel so worthwhile being on here in the beginning. You caught up with me I think right after all this started or right after it happened - it was a shot in the arm Nell! Thanks for being there and reading my crazy stories.

      Crewman6 - It's all good as my kids would say. I totally agree- some people just really get off on being a bully from their computer chair. The sad part of it to me is that it turns people off - and while these same people are talking about getting more traffic to hubpages, they are literally ticking people off and being the worst possible 'ambassadors' of this site. I know I can't change the world- but sometimes it just helps (me) to 'do' something, no matter how feeble. Thanks so much for reading!

    • Crewman6 profile image

      Crewman6 7 years ago

      Sorry you went through such a rough time- I've noticed the anonymity of the internet (and lack of accountability)seem to bring out the worst in some. Others are nice no matter what the environment. You have an important message here- thanks for writing it!

    • Nell Rose profile image

      Nell Rose 7 years ago from England

      Hi, Audrey, so you did it then? lol thought you would get there, glad you did. Sometimes when we keep it in our minds it just gets bigger and bigger until we want to burst, look what happened when I had that row, it went on and on, I got mad and eventually we sort of made it up, but there was no need for the insult in the first place. I think that certain people who shall not be named, lose out on not commenting, what the hell do they get out of writing then? just the money I suppose. But one of the main things about writing on here is the fact that we get feedback from all the other hubbers who become our friends in a way, I know that we may not ever meet each other, but if I had not met you on here, we wouldn't have a laugh on the e-mail like we have done, so I for one will keep commenting and love every minute, cheers nell

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Holle and Feline Prophet - I totally agree and it is an eye opening thing to know we are not alone! This is always a good thing. However, my only problem with that is that like in my case, sometimes this is one of the first places new people go - because they're told to do that by hubpages team people. If that is the best that we can offer them - i.e. a chance to get beaten up - that is kind of disappointing.

      I have been spending a lot of time there myself lately and that's how this all came about - because I was amazed that some of these same bullies were still trolling for a fight. I've been trying to leave messages that were counterproductive to their barbs and trying to be uplifting rather than degrading if that makes sense.

      However, I think that something needs to be done about it - now whether that will happen I guess remains to be seen. I just don't think it's 'good for business' if you know what I mean. If we end up hurting people or turning them off by allowing this kind of behavior, that doesn't seem right but I do understand I'm blond and all that - and I'm probably being a polyanna.

      Thanks ladies for taking the time to read - and I vote for the forums NOT being a dangerous place in the future! You 2 are my kinda people though - so see you there!

    • profile image

      Feline Prophet 7 years ago

      I tend to stay away from the forums unless it's to congratulate someone on an achievement or leave a birthday greeting or something else as innocuous. But I have heard that the forums can be a dangerous place...I'd rather spend time reading hubs!

    • habee profile image

      Holle Abee 7 years ago from Georgia

      Buckie, I just had to come back and read the comments. Apparently, we're far from alone. I visit the forums regularly, but I've learned who to avoid. I enjoy a good, polite debate, but not bullying. That said, HP has a lot of wonderful folks! Too bad about the few bad apples.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Deborah - I think that is what they would like us to do though so I guess that's why I decided no more! I decided I have just as much right to be on there as anyone and by gosh, I'm gonna try and make a difference. Even if it is reporting the bullies if I think a comment is totally out of line or a slur on someone's language - or I just give a positive to hopefully counteract the negative. It's just not right and I hope to make a difference. We will see if my polyanna attitude works!

      Thank you so much msannec for commenting and I'm sorry YOU had the same thing happen. It is a sad thing and as I said above, I do believe something should be done about it. No matter how small, I am a person who acts out what I feel I guess and it pains me to stand by and watch folks be bullies or snobs. I hate smug people. So I guess I've made it my little personal mission to try and see if I can make a difference! I'll get back to you - or I'll run screaming like a girl with my tail between my legs....let's hope not!

    • msannec profile image

      msannec 7 years ago from Mississippi (The Delta)

      So very well said! I'm sorry you had such an experience, I've been there myself. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and tips. Great hub!

    • Deborah Demander profile image

      Deborah Demander 7 years ago from First Wyoming, then THE WORLD

      Thank you for taking the time to write this hub. You speak for many of us. I have gone near the forums, but as others have said before me, I rarely comment, and I would never start a thread. It seems like asking for an ass kicking from the forum bullies.

      I'm glad you continue to write. It wouldn't take much to crush the spirit of many of us. Thanks for the expo.


    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Exactly, Seamist - that is my entire point. We are supposed to go on the forums - whether it is for information or to improve hub scores; whatever our motive is is immaterial in my humble opinion. To have to contend with these folks that are so smug just really seems offensive, however. ESPECIALLY in my humble opinion if you are a new person to hubpages. It really is off-putting and I always think about the overall picture - which is how do we appear as a collective whole to someone just starting out? My own experience about convinced me that I needed to seriously just withdraw and quit writing until I realized that it was a few bullies rather than a collective attitude. I'm glad I realized that - but again, my concern is that many folks joining may not realize it! Thanks so much for stopping by and for your articulate opinion!

    • seamist profile image

      seamist 7 years ago from Northern Minnesota

      Great hub! When I first joined Hubpages and began to participate in some of the forums, I noticed some of the attitudes you speak of too. Consequently, I decided I would just write and mind my own business. For the most part, that is still my policy today. Considering all of this, it's too bad some of our Hubpage author score is dependent upon participating in the community. The way I look at it is --- What good does it do squabble about things that really don't matter in the course of life, try to one up other hubbers, or any of the other behaviors you see on the forums at times? If a person can't say anything helpful or nice, silence is golden.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      I hear you totally, Micky - and I agree. I don't mind anyone not commenting on my hubs. I can't please all the people all of the time and all that. But I do mind leaving heartfelt comments on OTHER people's hubs and never getting an answer but that isn't even just about me. I notice that some of these 'high rollers' with the high scores have tons of comments and just never bother to answer any of them. What is that about? Why put comment capsules in then except to inflate their own ego? My main problem though is with the slams going on in the forums. There are certain people on there who in my humble opinion out to be banned from participating. They are obviously on there to beat others up and I just don't like that concept. Thanks as always for cycling by!

    • Micky Dee profile image

      Micky Dee 7 years ago

      Some of these "snobs" are bullies. I've written 3 hubs about these rude jerks. Some others stop by to talk really stupid. One guy had maybe 5,000 fans and 7 hubs at that time. I don't mind that folks don't write if they visit hubs and are cordial it doesn't matter. But some just do not produce and like a lot of political morons, they have nothing but repeating rhetoric that they spew everywhere they can. Some are pretending to be intellectuals talking all around problems that have simple solutions.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Now why didn't I think of that? Add to that the 2 fierce malamutes that I manage to muscle around (although some days are better than others)....I must be a really 'strong' person! Oy vey! I could have stuck with little wiener dogs but oh no! Had to go for the big guns! Ah well, I love my life and love all the experiences I've been privileged to have. They all taught me a bunch!

    • Sally's Trove profile image

      Sherri 7 years ago from Southeastern Pennsylvania

      Any person who can ride a half-ton or more of horse flesh at the gallop need not ever be intimidated by a snob.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Bucky - You are a treasure! I did get really, really down for a while about it and then it kind of hovered in my mind for a while. I didn't really know what to do except that I did lodge a formal complaint - to no avail which is disappointing. Then a certain witch snob did a hub not long after that which basically almost quoted my questions, statements verbatim...still I let it slide.

      My Bob always says - people who feel good about themselves don't have to go around beating up people and he is exactly right. I think my problem is that I came from abuse early on in my life and sometimes it takes me a little bit to catch up to that's what's happening as it is easy to take things personally and not see it for what it is. Once I saw it though, I did decide it's not worth taking that kinda crap!

      Don't stay away from the forums like I did for so long though - that is what 'they' want! They don't want quality folks like us speaking out and getting anywhere on here because it diminishes their power. You do a great job too, Bucky - and so glad I've gotten to know you!!

      Sally's Trove - You are amazing in your answers and your insight. That is exactly why I went back because I refuse to be bullied out of existence anymore. Now that I'm old, I do have choices and I absolutely can't stand big windbags who are SO SMUG and think their little poop don't stink. They have such inflated egos that I'm surprised they can sit in a chair without their heads dragging them to the floor!

      In all reality, it takes really small people to beat up on folks who have English as a second language - like I said, let them go try it in a foreign country - publishing on line in front of the world to read - because God knows they surely have all the answers!

      I am working on that thick skin! I am a very sensitive girl or so I'm told but that's not all bad. I think being sensitive lends itself to having much empathy for so many things and so many issues/people, etc. I do want to use that to the good and not let bullies keep me from offering up good advice to folks starting out - or folks just needing a little giggle or a lift. What the heck? Don't we have enough misery and turmoil in the world? Why go around kicking each other and making people sad?

      So much of it just doesn't make sense to me and I did plead with hubpages to please make them quit attacking people on there. If they want to, let 'em come after me again - I could care less now. I just would like them to leave other folks alone. I never was a 'good fighter' with my fists... I tried in vain to defend my family's honor and most importantly my baby sister and always got beaten to a pulp. However, I never quit and I don't plan on it now!

      Thanks again, sister, for the vote of confidence!!!

    • Sally's Trove profile image

      Sherri 7 years ago from Southeastern Pennsylvania

      You did a stellar job of putting these issues forward.

      I agree totally with Holle and Hello, hello: You've done a superior analysis of what to expect when engaging in HP forums, given the likelihood that you will be attacked, and this should be required reading for all Hubbers.

      I'd like to add that the snobs here (and that's a kind term you use) operate out of a combination of anonymity and grandiosity. Once you understand their motivations (which you have spelled out clearly in this Hub), then you can move on with business here, part of which is participating in the forums for the benefit of yourself and others.

      I do participate in the forums when I feel I have something to offer for someone's benefit or I need advice that I know is out here in the HP community. In the past, I'd been tempted to let a rant rip...sometimes it's hard to control that urge, because of the anonymity of the Internet. But then I ask myself, what purpose would it serve?

      I've developed a thick skin as far as the forums go...these "snobs" are out there to stuff themselves up, and that has nothing to do with me. It's their problem. But it is also unfortunate that those who try out this site, those who may be also a bit unpracticed in weeding out the flames, trolls, and "snobs", should leave because of the vitriol that gets flung here.

      I so admire your honesty and enormously appreciate your telling of the story that drove you away from the forums and then led you back.

    • sunflowerbucky profile image

      sunflowerbucky 7 years ago from Small Town, USA

      I am so sorry that you had such a bad experience Audrey! I actually have not been on the forums but about twice so I have yet to experience this crap. Sounds like I should stayy off too! It seems to me that the internet truly brings out the crazy in people. It's a little like alcohol in that it gives people courage to say and do things they would NEVER do in person. Bad manners and just plain being an assbag are therefore amplified tenfold on the world wide web! Don't let the insecure naysayers discourage you, you are a great writer and we all love ya!

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks so much for dropping in, chirls! I know that a lot of other folks have experienced similar and that is what I think is so crazy about it all. I wish there was some way for the powers that be to make them cut it out to be honest but guess it is a typical Internet problem with bullies. I refuse to quit going on though because I think the new folks or anyone for that matter deserves to be treated in an appropriate manner. I'm really glad I stuck around too!!! Thanks for the kudos on the food hubs - after the contest, it took me a while to start thinking about food hubs EVER but I think I might almost be there!

    • chirls profile image

      chirls 7 years ago from Indiana (for now)

      Thanks for the advice! I am glad not to have experienced anything like what you went through (not yet, at least). I have read comments from a lot of others that seem to have had a similar experience to you.

      I'm glad you stuck around though - I especially love your food hubs. :)

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      I'm totally past them getting to me - I just wanted to point this out to other folks because there are a lot of new people that are directed to go to the forums for advice, and these bullies are still there and still spewing their venom at the new people. I think it is disgusting to be honest and wonder if these folks have a life or if they just troll for 'victims'. They never post on other forums or say anything that is a positive - nor can they ever visit anyone's hubs and leave a nice comment. That seems really strange to me! Thanks though for your support and I appreciate you visiting! Hope to see you again.

    • Lamme profile image

      Lamme 7 years ago

      I think this kind of stuff happens on most forums. I guess it's the anonymity of being online, brings out the worst in people. There often seems to be a group of "bullies" who feel like it's their forum. I'm sorry this happened to you, but don't let them get to you.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks for commenting, Holle - I know you know what I mean and only wish we could solve the problem! Like if you are insulting on the forums, you have to read and be tested on 100 hubs! And mostly by folks with English as a second language just to make them cut it out. I just think there is a way to do things and way NOT to do them. Most importantly, some of these very people are always talking about getting more traffic and having 'better writers' - while they bash everyone. Where the heck are these 'better writers' supposed to be coming from - or conversely - with a little encouragement, wouldn't some of our writers become BETTER writers? To me, it is a simplistic process but there will always be smug folks - I get that. I just hate people that beat up on other people - pet peeve! Thanks again, Spanky!

    • habee profile image

      Holle Abee 7 years ago from Georgia

      Buckie, I'm so glad you wrote this. It should be required reading for all hubbers! I think most of us have run into a couple of hub snobs. Thank goodness they're few and far between, as you mentioned. Kudos, girlfriend!!

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      FCEtier - thanks so much for stopping by - nice to meet you! I only went to the forums because I was referred by the hubpages team for information and such when I first started. I, like you, have made many, many dear friends on here and love the interaction and have had nothing but positives from so many people. My only concern is reading some of the things that these same people are posting up and the fact that new people are going there really alarms me after my own experience. I just think it is a sad state when so many smug people enjoy beating up on other people - but then they wonder why we don't have more traffic! My only goal now is to visit the forums to more or less be a help and POSSIBLY counteract some of the negativity that I see there - again usually perpetrated by the same select few! See you on the hubs!

    • FCEtier profile image

      Chip 7 years ago from Cold Mountain

      I've never been into the forums and have no plans to do so in the future. I've made lots of friends without that venue.

      Keep writing and good luck!

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Alek - Thank you SO much for commenting - and yes, isn't it just like me to stick my neck out? I just can't help it because I feel that it is a reflection on all of us to tell the truth when new people join and team hubpages says 'go check on the forum' - like I did - and then get beaten up. I just think that is totally inappropriate and since I am a defender of the beaten up on any level, there ya go! But thank YOU for saying it was a good write! That means a lot to me.

      Lela - I totally agree with you. Fortunately, I bounce pretty well, after I had the meltdown that is! Bob was seriously concerned because nothing has gotten to me like that in a long, long time and I was just so hurt - over a recipe!! I tried to explain that it was a recipe (actually several from different sources) and that I had attributed them but no one was even listening. They just kept on and kept on and I was fool enough to try and 'make it right' and kept going back for more.

      After about the third or fourth round of punches, I just fell apart. I wrote HP and said I was not going to write anymore but after a few days of calming down, I decided that just wasn't my style. But the problem there was that I stayed away from the forums because of a bunch of smug jerks. After another hubber suggested that I go back, I decided to give it a try. Now I seem to spend most of my time trying to reassure folks after some smug one has said something totally inappropriate!

      Not complaining but I do feel as I said above - this is like our 'resource center' for new people and veterans alike. I don't think anyone should be getting beaten up! Life is short - for crying out loud - what kind of a writer (or person for that matter) needs to beat up on other writers - especially ones just starting out. I'm absolutely horrified that this is allowed to continue. Thanks as always for being there and I so appreciate your devotion!! I only hope I can always live up to your expectations in my writing!

    • Austinstar profile image

      Lela 7 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      Hi Audrey! OMG they said you copied a recipe off the internet? Whoa! Unbelievable!

      Well, people only have the power to hurt your feelings if you let them. Otherwise, they have no power at all. So don't let them have any power at all.

      I can't make head nor tails of the forums. I see HubPages as a cool place to write about stuff. Like you, I like 99% of the people here. The whiners and complainers can say what they want to, but all I have to do is click away. Hahahahaha!

      I'm glad I met you, it has enriched my life and I will continue to be your fan as long as I live. I do wish I had more time to read and answer comments. Just listen to the psychic comments I am sending to all of my friends, Ok?

    • alekhouse profile image

      Nancy Hinchliff 7 years ago from Essex Junction, Vermont

      ak, You are so "right on" with this hub...and such a good writer to boot. I have observed many so called "HubSnobs" doing exactly what you've outlined here. For the most part, I just ignore them as I don't feel they deserve my time to even think about them, much less talk about them. However, that is not to say that I don't appreciate and condone what you've said here. Kudos to you!

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Thanks for stopping in, Joni - and I totally agree with you. I have just recently gone back after SO long of a hiatus. I was astounded to see that the same people are still making the same rude comments! I believe that should not be happening but I guess I've decided if at all possible to try and counteract the ugly with a positive. We'll see if I can keep it up, however! It is rather deflating to think that some of these forums are the first thing people see when they join up.

    • Joni Douglas profile image

      Joni Douglas 7 years ago

      Having had similar difficulties on other forums from rude people and snobs, I was and still am cautious about my comments on the forums. Thank you for this hub.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Good Guy - I agree with you on many levels. However, I do believe that in a writing community such as this, we need to respect people on many levels. Especially upsetting to me are the comments asking folks if English is their second language. I personally think for 'literate' people (supposedly) this is a mockery. Thanks so much for your insights though and I TOTALLY agree with you to avoid these windbags at all costs!

      HH - You are a treasure! I adore your honesty and am right there with you. I just had to say something because I don't believe in certain people (or groups) running roughshod over the rest of us. Most of us can pull ourselves up and face the music and dance but for those who maybe it just pushed them over the edge - enough!

      Luckily, I seem to bounce well - eventually. I refuse to let people beat on me anymore in my lifetime so hence after thinking on it for quite some time obviously, I did what I needed to do for me - and I was hoping it rang true for a lot of folks. I am happy to see that I was not dead wrong in my assumptions or my 'take' on it.

      De Greek - As always - you are far wiser than me - but that is because you after all De Greek - and you are male, hear you roar! Seriously, I only went there because I was confused (more than usual) and was seeking help and advice ON HUBPAGES TEAM's ADVICE. They got a little bit of a piece of my mind after all the dust settled.

      Going through the mill is good - at least I didn't turn to sawdust! I'm still kicking - and that brings up a good point - I SHOULD stick to soccer! Or horseback riding although I could have used a few lessons - actually in many things in my life. However, I am Nike's poster child I guess...I just dive in and do it! Therein lies yet another hub - swimming ala Audrey! Coming soon to a pool near you.

    • De Greek profile image

      De Greek 7 years ago from UK

      You have made me pleased with myself for not visiting the fora, then. :-) I go there ONLY when I am looking for something specific, or to support a friend, if the need arises. You have obviously been through the mill, kid. Stick to soccer :-)

    • Hello, hello, profile image

      Hello, hello, 7 years ago from London, UK

      Hello, Audrey, and your are a marvel and deserve a godll medal for such a great hub. I mean that. I tis well written in every sense. I am so pleased that I can call you my fan and had a great pleasure to read this hub. This hub should be put up in front of the forum as a document. I have been there once and I run. NEVER AGAIN. I am no t big headed but as you stated the mannerism - no thank you. English is my second language and I know I have problems. I had it mentioned it all the years. People tread it as something bad but they don't think, hey wait a minute, do I speak or write a second language and if so as well as she/he does in my language? I used to say that years ago when I worked in an office. Inside I laughed because they looked like a deflated balloon and stayed away from me. I absolutely hate and despise anybody being put down, no matter what.

      My most sincere thank you and respect for putting out such a great hub and it had to be done. I read a number and to me too many discriminating hubs towards certain groups. Ther was no need for that. My motto is 'If you don't like them or can't cope with them - leave them alone. They don't you any harm.' Well, I better stop otherwise I will here tomorrow, still writing.

      Thank you again, Audrey, and highest respect to you. That is what I call education. You don't read in books or schools. You either have it or not.

    • Good Guy profile image

      Justin Choo 7 years ago from Malaysia

      I think most of us have been through the internet world for quite some time. Personally I try to avoid the so-called religious forum or religious topics. When the person is dead set in the mindset, any slight agitation against his/her belief will trigger a hellfire.

      As for the general forum in HP, I find that all the Hubbers are helpful and have the decorum to be civil and polite.

      I would say wherever we go there are sure to have rude and bigotted people. It is better for us just to avoid them. Of course if we can vaporize them, so much the better (LOL). Failing which just ignore them, leave them alone; and they will not be able to make any more noise. Or at least we will not have to listen to them or be their targets.

      Just my few cents worth of comment.

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Darlene - I don't think I knew you then and only had a couple of fans. I was absolutely brokenhearted and I cried for 2 or 3 days! I couldn't stop because I was so upset by the things that they said - they came right out and said that I was a plagiarist because I used a recipe that was on line - even though I attributed it!! And as I said, the thing was that no one read the hub! That is really what ticked me off in the end the most.

      I did go on and just decided when I pulled myself back up that I would NEVER go to the forums - and I told the hubpages team the same thing. I found it totally insulting. However, the sad part of this is that if they know that these certain folks are doing it - I believe that they in their infinite 'power position' should be stopping it because quite frankly, it is bad for business. If you have folks that quit, how is that helping any of us? All because of some people who have such inflated egos.

      At any rate, I am a survivor and decided I would not let this little 'episode' get me down - and there you have it - some 272 hubs later I'm still kicking! I treasure your friendship! Thanks for all the kudos along the way. That kind of positive thing is what has kept me going.

      Freya - You have a beautiful face and I am honored to have you adorn my hubs! I admire you so much for publishing on a venue that is NOT your first language and that is what I mean. I challenge anyone to try it in YOUR language and see how far they get! Especially to be insulted - that to me is a criminal act! (I do tend to always fight for the abused on ANY level and that is just my nature) can also interact here on my hub with Charlie or anyone - I love the conversation!

      Charlie - You are a cad! That is why we love you so!

      Suzie - I totally hear you. I was actually referred to the forums by the hubpages team for 'info' and then when I got so upset, I told them I would never return. Many months later, after getting over the shivering and shuddering, I decided that perhaps other folks felt the same way I did and needed 'a more positive influence'. Not that I have all the answers - I just believe that no matter what, we should be a help to this world rather than a hindrance. I would prefer to be remembered for my good traits rather than my bad and to know that I actually did try to change things for the better rather than hurt other people. And here I am!

      Rkhyclak - I need to call you by a name because I'm so going to screw up your handle! I'm a typist by nature and I can't seem to remember it! You are welcome any time to converse any way you like! I love company and am sending everyone a virtual cup of coffee and some of my best muffins and a few homemade baked egg rolls which I happened to be trialing out tonight as well.

      Thanks so much ya'll for stopping in!!

    • Freya Cesare profile image

      Freya Cesare 7 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

      Rkhyclak: So Charlie did? Ah, dangerous man! LOL. Thank you. (Sorry Audrey, your hub full with my face. :x)

    • rkhyclak profile image

      rkhyclak 7 years ago from Ohio

      hehe, Freya, Charlie makes everyone blush around here! lol And I enjoy your writings as well! (sorry Audrey to use your hub's comments to talk to everyone)!

    • suziecat7 profile image

      suziecat7 7 years ago from Asheville, NC

      Akirchner - Wow from me too. I've noticed the sarcasm in the forums. I basically stay clear of them except to vote for Hub Nuggets and see what's up. I'm a big fan of yours and appreciate the honesty of this Hub.

    • Freya Cesare profile image

      Freya Cesare 7 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

      Thank you for the compliment, Audrey. And maybe I will used your answer to encounter these snob people. You are great writer yourself and full of determination to get your goal. I really admiring that. Hmmm... I wonder, when Hub Pages will start another contest? And will Audrey once again become their hostage? lol

    • Freya Cesare profile image

      Freya Cesare 7 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

      Rawlus: Ah, I am blushing now! LOL. Thank you. \^o^/

    • Darlene Sabella profile image

      Darlene Sabella 7 years ago from Hello, my name is Toast and Jam, I live in the forest with my dog named Sam ...

      Oh girlfriend, I can't believe you never came to me about this? OMG you are so sweet, how did this happen to you? I must be honest and say that I have never gone to the forum, this is one of the bad things from a place I left and joined hubpages. I think maybe all forums are only their for the few, and that's great, they can mess around with each other, fine! That get's them out of our hair You are special and you know how I feel. Brave hub and it's about time, NOVEMBER? I love you, your friend and a big fan...

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      Charlie - You know if it weren't for Bob....I love you too, sweet man! You were one of the ones who pulled my shattered ego back from the brink!

      Liljen - You are welcome. I have thought about it enough that I felt that I needed to just say it!

      Freya - You are a marvelous writer - and I hate that people say these insulting things. I want to actually write back - hello - how about you go on an Asian website for instance and you post something up there, sweetheart and let's see how they think your writing skills are, eh? It is just worthless and mean spirited in my humble old ladyish opinion to insult people for any reason! Thank goodness for my wonderful husband who has always maintained - only shallow, insecure people need to do this so don't sweat it. Sometimes though, especially when you are taking on something as daunting and new as writing - easier said than done! Thanks so much for your thoughts and I totally admire you for writing in a second language.

      SEO IT - No worries on not answering all the time. Everyone has the same problem and the more popular folks become, it becomes really overwhelming to answer everything and everyone. I'm not talking about that really anyhow - I'm talking about people who are at the 'top' of the chart in terms of numbers and you follow them. You go to their new published hubs and you make sincere, what you think are meaningful comments. They never even post an answer - to anyone. Or if they do, it is months later and it says 'thanks'.

      Sorry - but as a writer - really - couldn't you come up with something a little more heartfelt than that?

      I'm with you - thankfully there aren't so many that are the snobs; I just worry about the impression we give new people joining on as I worry they might think we are all like that! God forbid! Thanks so much for taking the time to comment and stop by! See you on the hubs. Audrey

    • SEO IT! profile image

      Karla Whitmore 7 years ago from Tucson, AZ

      So well-said. Almost feel like I just got out of "hub church". AMEN.

      And with that..

      I don't respond to enough comments and I'm glad you mentioned that. Sometimes I am just so busy that I don't get there and then, it is either respond a month late or don't respond... I appreciate every comment, though! And I do try to make my way around... (gee, am I feel a bit convicted, here?)

      I'm so glad most hubbers are not snobs. :)

    • profile image

      ralwus 7 years ago

      I think I love you Freya

    • Freya Cesare profile image

      Freya Cesare 7 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

      Ah, you pointed to all I want to say and more! Great job!

      I read forums a lot, but rarely involved because in so many thread I seen Hubbers insulted each others and I really do not want to be involve in something like that. I think it will not good for my spirit if I have to experience become someone's 'prey' :(, so I choose to skipped put reply on forums in so many times and jumped into hubs comments instead.

      It is not just forums, there are so many Hubs which written full with insult to others; whether it is people, race, religion, etc, etc. When someone questioning and opposing it, they said it is their right to write; freedom of speech! But then they did not care to answer all comments nicely or even didn't care to answer at all and deleted it. I thought these people really didn't have work ethic as writer, lack of responsibility and ignorant snob! These kind of people really not deserve to read and appreciated, but surprisingly, they usually have many follower and lots of real fans around Hub Pages! How's that had happened? Do people no longer care about great manner anymore or maybe this is how people making interaction with other people today? These are my questions. I am glad I read your Hub, so I know I am not alone in feeling this. Thank you for this great hub, dear. ^_^

      By the way, My native language is not English and sometimes I got response similar with: "Is English your first language - obviously not". LOL. I'm not used sarcasm a lot and not really good at it, but I really think sarcasm in that line really poor and people who used it deserve to become the source of laugh! Is that all they got? Can their brain work harder and find something more smart? Hmmm... I guess not!

      Ah, I am talking too much! ^_^

    • liljen23 profile image

      liljen23 7 years ago from Shreveport,LA

      Great hub on this topic, you summed it up.. Thanks for publishing this..

    • profile image

      ralwus 7 years ago

      Good on you Audrey. Well said girl. I will always be your fan. phfffft, so there. x

    • akirchner profile image

      Audrey Kirchner 7 years ago from Washington

      SilverGenes - thanks so much for the tag - and I go there now too only to offer help and hopefully ward off some of the negativity! I keep thinking a good dose of positive has to outweigh the rudeness and that's my only purpose now for being there. Thanks so much for reading! And thanks for the hub - will read it and leave a comment as I believe that is truly what is needed - common courtesy.

      Rkhyclak - thanks so much for reading and commenting. I agree with you completely and I think even in forums there is no place for that kind of stuff. I thought long and hard about whether to publish this hub but being who I am, I just had to do it. Thanks for your kudos and I value every person who takes the time to read and comment. That is what a community is in my humble opinion! See you on the hubs!

    • rkhyclak profile image

      rkhyclak 7 years ago from Ohio

      Great hub :) I've experienced a lot of the same and try very hard to steer clear of the forums. Everytime I've been there (a total of about 4 times) I've been met with names and insults for offering up my opinion. Anyways, so glad you kept at it-I love reading your hubs and really enjoyed all of your hubalicious entries!

    • profile image

      SilverGenes 7 years ago

      Wow - I'm really sorry you had to go through all that. The Internet seems to attract two kinds of people, those who are themselves and those who are wannabes of some sort. Don't let the wannabes get to you. They aren't so much snobs - just rude. You are here because you love writing and as you mentioned, so are many others. I've been in the forum only a few times and mostly just to answer questions. Honestly, when I'm online it's usually to read hubs or to write some but everyone is different. Some really enjoy the interaction in the forums and that's fine, too. Your point about commenting is a good one, though. Here's a link to a great hub written about hub courtesy and I think you'll like it:

      I'm glad you decided to stay :)


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