California Affiliate Nexus Tax Law has returned 8/23/10 AB 1625

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  1. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    According to Rebecca Madigan of the PMA (Performance Marketing Associate) "In a nutshell, if this law passes, it will lead hundreds of merchants to terminate their California affiliates – overnight. We know this for a fact because they terminated affiliates in NY, NC and RI when similar laws were passed there."

    Here's a link explaining what you should do http://www.performancemarketingassociat … gislation/

    The PMA is a group that represents Affiliates.

  2. WryLilt profile image88
    WryLiltposted 13 years ago

    I'm glad I live in Australia.

    Good luck with fighting them. Just curious - would you move states if it came down to it?

  3. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    It's not that easy for me because Massachusetts, the state where I live is the only state in the United States that currently guarantees access to health insurance. And as two self-employed people (in their fifties) my husband and I have good insurance (We pay almost $2000/month out of our pocket for our insurance it's not subsidized health care, just access). If we move to another state right now we have no guaranteed access to good plans or choice. We have a choce of a dozen or so plans.

    That's why I've been working so hard on Adsense and ebay. They don't throw affiliates out, Amazon does.

    btw incorporating in another state won't protect an affiliate, because it's the affiliate's physical presence in the state, not the business incorporation location, that triggers the law.

    1. WryLilt profile image88
      WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Wow that sux! I pay about $200 a month for health insurance and I think that's bad.

      In fact in Australia many of us don't pay health insurance - medicare covers hospital stays and generally 80% of medical bills.

      I had my baby in a public hospital and had no problems, before I had health insurance and it didn't cost me a cent.

      Health insurance is just something for people who need extra (we use it for dental, physio etc.)

  4. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    I don't want this to become a health care debate. California affiliates need to contact their Senators asap and kill this thing as quickly as possible.

    Hubpages is actually located in CA.

    1. WryLilt profile image88
      WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry Nell, I was just so surprised by that information.

      Do you think it could detrimentally effect hubpages itself to a great extent?

  5. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    Well IF it pases HP could lose it's Amazon affiliation like all other affiliates. So it would be up to them to continue to allow other affiliates to use it. So I guess it could affect non-Californian affiliates as well wrt Amazon.

    But let's try and stop it dead in its tracks. Affiliates in other states have been sucessful, and let's hope California affiliates succeed.

    1. WryLilt profile image88
      WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Ok. Good luck! smile (And wondering why no one else is posting here) in particular those who could lose their accounts...

    2. profile image0
      EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'm hoping that if the worst happens and HP loses its Amazon affiliation, then it will let HP members carry on using Amazon capsules and collecting affiliate revenue.

      If it doesn't, then a lot of people might take down their Amazon-oriented hubs & move them elsewhere, and HP would lose any Adsense revenue it would have earned from them.

      Fingers crossed that California sees sense though.

  6. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    Hopefully they're visiting the PMA link and emailing their State Senators!

    1. WryLilt profile image88
      WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hopefully. But I thought if they'd done that they'd also try to bump the post so as many people as possible are aware of the issue.

      Although I'm not sure how many people write here (and regularly visit the forums) from CA.

  7. sunforged profile image72
    sunforgedposted 13 years ago

    "Our forecast of California’s General Fund revenues and expenditures shows that the state must address a General Fund budget problem of $20.7 billion between now and the time the Legislature enacts a 2010–11 state budget plan. The budget problem consists of a $6.3 billion projected deficit for 2009–10 and a $14.4 billion gap between projected revenues and spending in 2010–11. Addressing this large shortfall will require painful choices—on top of the difficult choices the Legislature made earlier this year." … 11809.aspx

    CA isnt really in a position to be easily swayed when it comes to possible tax revenue - even if it is a short sighted measure that isnt likely to have a beneficial outcome. (That doesnt mean -dont try, it means you have to try harder)

    I would imagine HP would be safe from getting the boot, they are not a normal affiliate they just passed a billion page views - such partners get special consideration.

    All the major affiliate networks are located in California! including CJ. Many are making the possible effects of internet tax laws known.

    Anyone, not just California residents should follow the videos suggestions for getting your opposition to such measures known.

    1. profile image0
      Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      First of all, there is no gain in tax revenue because the companies just cut affiliates lose, so they don't have to collect the taxes. And the states lose the income tax that the affiliates would have paid. This is what's happening in RI - and why some reps are considering repeal.

      Second, Amazon will not allow a single affiliate in a state regardless of who it is, because that establishes the nexus - a single nexus - and they collect the sales tax from everyone in California.

      Amazon has the technology to collect taxes don't fool yourself, but affiliate revenue isn't worth giving up tax free status.

      State reps aren't swayed by large companies who do business online - those are just the people who they feel in all fairness should be taxes. They have been swayed by the stories of individual affiliates who would lose their business. That's how it's been beaten back is several states or amended not to include affiliates as a nexus.

      So I would urge all Californian Affiliates to get involved. Because it's getting to be a yearly thing out there.

      1. sunforged profile image72
        sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Thats why its short sighted

        1. profile image0
          Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, very.

          One of the major proponents of this, is the American Booksellers Association. Independent bookstores are trying to cut the legs off of Amazon and take away the tax advantage.

      2. sunforged profile image72
        sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Had to re-read to understand that aspect, I certainly wasnt "fooling myself" though , I have frequently received special considerations from my best affiliate partnerships and anyone can get the technology to collect taxes online - its the default.

        Looking further - I see Amazon has explicitly stated they will remove CA if the law passes.. … zon/36325/

        I still havent figured out why Im still an Amazon affiliate and a NY resident. (edit -Amazon does have a physical location in Amazon which is the normal use of "nexus" , Californias attempt to use affiliates as the "nexus" is a redefinition of the term)

  8. netlexis profile image63
    netlexisposted 13 years ago

    I live in California, so I'll get on this right away. But if this falls here, I'm sure the other states will come tumbling fast.

    1. profile image0
      Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Contact the PMA and work with them. They have been really helpful and successful in other states.

  9. Ivorwen profile image66
    Ivorwenposted 13 years ago

    Good luck to those of you in California!

  10. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    Sunforged I seem to remember something about a court case and that's why Amazon might still have NY affiliates - like Squidoo. But lots of other companies are not allowing NY affiliates. It's right in their TOS.

    I thought your physical residency was elsewhere. And that is what really matters, that's the nexus.

    Oh and I didn't mean don't fool yourself to you explicitly. A lot of people on the HP forum have stated that Amazon doesn't want to go to the technological bother of collecting taxes, when it's just that they don't want to collect taxes at all.

    I've gotten special considerations wrt to commissions, return days and that sort of stuff. Companies aren't budging on this one. I've watched friends loose 90% of their substantial income overnight.

  11. Mutiny92 profile image64
    Mutiny92posted 13 years ago

    yikes!  I have been working hard on my amazon hubs.  That will not be good!

  12. Don Simkovich profile image59
    Don Simkovichposted 13 years ago

    I guess it won't hurt Adsense. What a terrible law. Lawmakers trying to collect taxes while making people run scared. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

    Last year, I interviewed a Calif state senator from the LA area - a Democrat - who was complaining that the state was terribly unfair to businesses and that's why Toyota shut down its Fremont plant and left.

    They were going to have to pay sales taxes on equipment needed to upgrade while other states would have let the same equipment be exempt.

  13. jaymelee23 profile image68
    jaymelee23posted 13 years ago

    Nelle, do you think that ALL writers at Hubpages should write these politicians? It could lead to troubles to non-California residents too if they do this. Like you stated, Hubpages is in California and  if they are dropped then they might drop the whole Amazon thing here for everyone. What do you think?

    1. jaymelee23 profile image68
      jaymelee23posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I sent out e-mails to the governor and senators. I couldn't send any out to the reps though because the site said it would only send e-mails through for California residents in specific districts. I just covered what you said about being dropped by affiliates and how they would lose money on tax loses etc.... how it affects other state residents when individuals work for a company that resides in California, etc.  Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention. If anyone else wants to e-mail the senators and governors, here are the URLS for them:

  14. Fiction Teller profile image59
    Fiction Tellerposted 12 years ago

    It looks like the ABX8 8 bill in California (the nexus bill) did not go through.  There's a thread about it in the Associates forum.


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