With regard to Amazon's cancellation of California affiliates, will HP continue to let hubbers who live in other places earn from that affiliate program by keeping the Amazon capsules on already existing hubs or will you do away with it altogether and bring in alternative revenue streams?
ebay ditched us - its impossible to get a new ebay account through HP
Adsense is down - For all hubbers and HP
Kontera is gone - It was never a favorite earner for anyone here, perhaps, except me.
Now Amazon - ???
HP Ads - The forcasted revenue after introducing Bing ads failed to materialize. Moreover, the CPM is on a downward trend, if not swinging wildly.
Traffic - For me, its on an upward swing for the last couple of weeks. Thats why I didn't volunteer for the subdomain effort. And also, I was conscious about pagerank loss.
How are we going to cross the Arctic?
Thanks in advance for your reply .
I think HP will keep the Amazon capsules, for now, because the restrictions are "state-specific" and I'm sure there is still a profitable number of Amazon affiliates from non-affected locations using the caps.
ps Probably still wise to get another basket for some of those affiliate eggs
HP hasn't announced Amazon Affiliate Program being stripped by other affiliates in other states. What makes you think it would announce California?
Because it didn't affect them until it hit California. HP are based in California, so have they lost their account or not? If they have, what is the future of HP? Are they still viable as a website? This is as big a blow as Panda for a site like HP.
HP is an affiliate also, so they will lose their account also. Only makes sense.
Apparently, HP will have to adapt/change, in order to offer writers other choices.
Sure, why not.
At least half of my daily earnings come from Amazon. If we then assume HP to be the same, then that is a massive hit in income.
I would assume that Amazon was a MASSIVE part of HP's income stream. Less and less Hubbers have been allowed eBay partner accounts recently. Adsense seems to have taken a pretty big hit (for the average hubber) at HP. HP don't earn from our direct affiliate links. So they've got Panda-decimated Adsense earnings, and their own HP ad program.
I'm sure that they'll ride this out somehow, but it's definitely a major blow.
It's not just Amazon. It could be affecting merchants participating in the HPad programs as well. Thousands of merchants will now reject any affiliate located in California. This is what they need to address to people participating in the HPads program and let them know the status.
SO I guess now is the time to get a back up copy of sales hubs before they delete the amazon capsule,,, if I want to keep a list of the products I have on my sales hubs correct? This could be the final straw jeepers
Seems to me that now is a good time to backup ALL of our hubs, because HP might not be here tomorrow.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThatInterne … aUmTRrEsyE
Called, catchily enough, How to Save Your HubPages Content To Your Computer.
Excellent, it is running in the background at present. Might take a while with all the hubs I have, plus the unfinished ones which are over 100 in number.
Thanks for the information. Did mine in just a few minutes - it's great!
In the time I wrote the last post and now I backed up all my hubs automatic with visualwget following the hub written by Pcunix http://hubpages.com/hub/Backing-up-Hubp … r-computer
There are several good backup hubs written out there just search using the search box top right corner under my account
Edit: This did not backup unpublished hubs
there is a firefox plugin called "ScrapBook" that makes the options outlined in that hub a simple two click process.
You can backup your ENTIRE hubpages account that way
Ok cool, I never use FF but thanks for the info sunforged
I used it once, now I just tried and it did not back up the whole group but only about 30 of my hubs and I can not find a way to uninstall and try again.
Can you not try the operation again? I just used Scrapbook today for the first time, but I'd have thought I'd be able to repeat the whole process if I added in a load of new hubs.
Hubpages can relocate headquarters to Nevada. Reno is nice but bring a jacket!
How to Install Scrapbook using Firefox
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThatInterne … aUmTRrEsyE
Just out of interest, has there not been any kind of coordinated petition/protest/something of that sort, in the States against this by affiliates?
I would have thought that they were quite numerous in numbers.
Together would they not possibly have some sway, or is it a given that something of that nature would be ineffective?
The nexus tax law change has been effectively blocked twice in Texas by Affiliate marketers, Affiliate programs and Publishers. It is possible to stop this law going through, especially when you can claim that this is an unfair tax.
Argument Number 1. Affilaites are advertisers, if you are going to consider an affiliate as a 'store' in a state, then all marketing agencies must be held accountable under that law. Getting paid via commission rather than an upfront fee should not effect this - the law is discriminatory and illegal.
Argument Number 2. Affiliates market globally not locally. The help bring money from around the nation and the world in to the state. This also means they are not competing with local businesses, but other interenet businesses. burdening affiliates but not other online marketing models is unfair.
Argument Number 3. Main Street Fairness Alliance claims that amazon etc can under cut costs by not paying sales taxes in every state. However affiliate commission often exceeds local sales tax rates, including in NY.
Argument Number 4. It has already been shown that every state that has implemented this law has dropped all affiliates in teh state. This means that the state does not receive extra income, it also means that affiliate marketters canno longer earn this money, pay taxes, and spend money in the state, that would have often come from an out of state/country source.
etc etc. I am sure you can think of more arguments on your own, but the fact of the matter is that if you can show that this will harm the state financialy, it will usually be refused.
You need to point out that extra taxes earned are minimal, and that the loss of income for thousands of people can severely harm local economies.
If the party in pwer was pro jobs, or pro economy, you can state bluntly that their actions of destroying peoplees livelihoods is against their policy, and by destroying jobs that bring in a large amount of national and international cash, they helping to prevent economic recovery for their state.
I usually follow along here:
as far as mobilizing and staying aware of changes that can influence my online earnings
many of the affiliate networks also send notices about such things.
I posted this a few weeks back: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/76397#post1651644
It links to an article describing how Performance Marketing Associates is suing the State of Illinois because of nexus and is prepared and financed to take it to the US Supreme Court.
Still waiting for official stand on this. PiaC's post isn't doing it.
For anyone who earns a reasonable amount with amazon and has just been booted this is a <snipped - no promotional links in the forums>
I am not booted by Amz or HP aff program yet. I am sure there will be and may be even better alternatives at the moment. If you'd like, I can give you some leads on this.
Someone has been quick of the mark!
They only want 25% - seems a bit steep to me. That said, I suggested something similar on the sticky thread and got shot down in flames, as this is apparently fraud. Who'd have thought it? Not the taking of a commission/percentage, but for lying to the State in which you live and not paying sales tax, apparently.
Thank you friends for your views on this thread. But I wonder why Jason/Paul/Maddie never even bothered to address this, so far. If you look at the timeline, I feel that they forced PiaC to make an announcement after seeing this thread and/or similar voices in the forum.
Its a fact that HP is booted out of Amz program. What we need to know is that how that is going to affect or effect who are residing outside those tax laws and are still Amz affiliates.
In short, where do we go from here?!
We'll just have to wait and see.
Even if HP itself is booted, affiliates using Amazon on their Hubs really shouldn't be effected. They may have to manually enter the product codes or install the product widget though their HP account, so they may continue to use the service.
I noticed a few mentions about AdSense and HP Ads regarding Bing.
Since I do not earn through AdSense, am also not eligible for HP Ads and now Kontera is no more.
A good alternative would be to give users a 60/40 on in-text ads by Vibrant Media, AdMedia or Infolinks and offer an alternative to the DoubleClick Network, until such time as Bing/Microsoft reopen their publisher section and HP set up a revenue share option for this.
I would be really unhappy if I didn't have the revenue from Amazon affiliate program. That's my biggest earner so far.
I dont think anyone is going to address our concerns.
Its weekend at HP HQ
Or is it weak end?
I had posted a question on Pia's thread about this, wondering where the affliate money from HP is going from our hubs, now that they can't collect it anymore...
I'd forgotten it was the weekend, ugh...I guess I won't hold my breath, waiting for a quick answer then, lol...
As I understand it, HP doesn't collect all the money upfront - although it does collect its share of the money via its own affiliate code, which shows 40% of the time for any given hub, your own affiliate code shows for the remaining 60%, during which any purchases are credited straight to you - they don't go via HubPages at all. Which is just as well really.
PS: Yesterday (July 1st) I got credited with some commission for Amazon items that shipped out on that day - this surely wouldn't have happened if all the money was funnelled via HP's now defunct Amazon affiliate account.
I understand what you're saying, thanks!
What I was wondering about, though, is if HP can't have their 40% time, does our affliate code take over that time frame then?
Various people (myself included) have posed this question to HP's staff on the forum, but no reply has so far been forthcoming.
I did see it mentioned before, with no replies, so I wanted to chime in, too, to see, if maybe enough of us posed the question, they might eventually ANSWER someone!
It seems like common sense that our affliate codes would take over, but I've found that common sense doesn't always win out, does it?
But have you had any new sales since 6/29? Has anyone here had new sales credited since that date? If so, then it would be a good indication that earnings may continue without Hubpages having an affiliate account.
I just posted in the other thread as well that I have a sale for July 1st. So...this is good news for now....
Ok Richard, I just checked now. Yes, there are a few sales commissions in my account for this month. In fact I made pay out for this month, already.
That's great SunSeven. I'm sure we confirmed this in another thread that those affiliates that live in areas unaffected by the nexus laws are still earning here on HP. The big question that needs to be addressed is what is happening to HP's 40% share?
It will probably be a while before this is addressed. If they are attempting to circumvent the nexus law by setting up an affiliate account from an unaffected state then there are some legal ramifications that they may run into. I'm sure their lawyers are crossing all their t's and dotting all their i's to resolve their loss of income.
I would like to know that as well Richard.
Especially, when I had to re-enter all my tax info the other day, and (what a coincidence!) when HP ads revenue do not show up on my account (there is a thread I started on this); and when bubblies like Simone is fronted or given the task of cheering us up with no hardbacked data, I believe my displeasure is not misplaced.
lol.."weak end".....good grief let's hope not. Apparently we will be sitting in limbo until after the weekend.
As much as I enjoyed going through all hubs on all profiles to accommodate the 50 words/per amazon product rule....I really don't want to have to go through and manually pull them all either. If that's the case....most of my hubs will be moving over to Wizzley.
Hoping things work themselves out (she crosses fingers).
Perhaps I should run and check my hubs to see if they are indeed within rules of HP for that 50 words per product.
I can only imagime the number of hubs that got unpublished and the anguish of hubbers who were dealt very roughly with that very friendly rule.
Frankly, I dont know whether I should laugh or cry.
You should've been here, when all those Barbies wre queing here, but that was long ago and the floors were cleared for better visibility.
I haven't the foggiest idea what you just said. It's probably clever, and subtle - but - sailed over me.
I too am trying to figure that...I think it's code. We'll figure it out! lol
Thanks. I thought every other Hubber might say "oh duh, don't you GET the Barbie reference - what a newb".
I would NEVER do that!
But then, I've been here over 2 years, and didn't get it, either!
Oh...I understood the Barbies reference, I'm trying to figure out the "floors were cleared for better visibility."
Just a small update would be nice...even if it's a "Hey we're still working on it." No recognition of the subject since before the weekend (that I've seen anyway) is frustrating. Last I heard was to sit tight for a few days...assuming we would at least hear SOMETHING on Tuesday. It is now Wednesday and I can't help but feel a bit ignored. Trying to not make any fast decisions to just remove everything but at the same time, I just would like to know that someone is viewing our concerns. At this time I just don't feel like it.
I totally feel your frustrations as I share them as well. Honestly, I wouldn't accept anything given by the community 'peacekeepers' (Maddie, Simone, PiaC, etc) as being completely factual. I think we need answers directly from either of the 2 Pauls. It's not that Maddie, Simone, PiaC or any of the other employees of Hubpages aren't privy to the information, it's the fact that the nature of their jobs is to deflect negative attitudes towards this company so they are the spin-masters of HP. When Paul Edmondson or Paul Deeds speak on sensitive issues, industry leaders listen, Hubbers listen.
Thanks EmpressFelicity for that head up. Recently made some sales via my hubs, meaning that our Amazon 60% is very active even if HubPages got affected by location(California), also considering the fact that whenever a hubber's adsense account got disabled, it doesn't stop ads from being shown on the hubs; at this point, it will only affect or disables the ad impression share and earnings of the hubber in question and not HubPages. Simply vice versa.
So, this is my thinking, taking things a step further, Amazon will be in no hurry to assist Hubpages, because what HP are losing, Amazon is gaining.
They may look to the future and realize they will lose an awful lot more if HP pulls out of Amazon altogether, and decide to work a solution with HP. But where is the hurry while they are making what HP is losing?
HP should write a line of software code now to give the affiliates their 40% share, to bring Amazon nearer to solution.
I dont understand? Are you suggesting a 100% share to the writers? I concur!
Amazon cant have partners In CA . Hubpages is in CA ---> . <-------
Yes that is exactly what I am suggesting. I am continuing to make Amazon sales as an affiliate, and with roughly the same daily click-throughs as before, which tells me that that 40% of the time that belongs to HP is totally wasted.
They cannot collect, so Amazon gains. That is the way it has to work, else Amazon would be selling their products at a higher rate to those who clicked directly on their site.
I know HP are in some talks with someone, because Pia posted to that effect.
But HP actually hold the balance of power. While Amazon are making the money, HP are now losing, through not having an affiliation. HP should move now to change the goalposts by offering their 40% share to the authors.
NOW we'd have a level playing field, and Amazon are more likely to talk to them.
By the way, I will be very happy to accept 100% on the understanding that it is a temporary measure.
Alright - got ya - HPs impressions are wasted.
It would only be right and nice to have those wasted impressions go to the sites authors while things get worked out.
Thats the type of good faith measure that might impress some of the disenfranchised.
Instead they are redesigning your profile pages for you Anyone check the hopper lately? ..the ants are still marching in,,,,
"NOW we'd have a level playing field, and Amazon are more likely to talk to them."
This is the part Im not following. HP claims Amazon is working with them and the amazon email does suggest that amazon is attempting some workarounds.
What Amazon email? Dang - they are not talking to me!
I've no idea what workaround they are trying to work out, but I am glad they are.
But look at it this way, until a workaround is reached, Amazon are gaining what HP is losing.
Now maybe those talks can achieve an amiable solution in a week, but if I were Amazon, I'd drag it out to two weeks, or three weeks or longer, because they are making thousands if not millions of dollars in the interim.
Not being a software writer, although I kinda half-trained to be one (failed because I didn't really understand it all) I imagine those whizz kids at HP could write a line of code to pass HP's share of the Amazon earnings over to us.
On a temporary basis!
It will help whatever is agreed in those talk come to pass sooner.
That has been what I've been wondering about...is anyone from HP ever going to come back on and address ANY of this--or they just going to keep us all waiting even longer?
Like I said before, I'm not publishing any more hubs until I know what's going on...because if they can't work anything out, I'm not putting work into anymore sales hubs, just to have the Amazon capsules pulled.
No that is the wrong attitude! Keep on doing what you are doing if it working.
What you should also be doing is making sure you have a copy of your hub backed up somewhere, just in case tomorrow you get the message "this page does not exist", although of course the Google cache should carry a copy of all your hubs, until they clear.
You can then use your hubs elsewhere on the net, provided of course that some scammer hasn't already copied and re-used your exact words somewhere else.
Google and all the web searchers have a HUGE job ahead of them, cleaning up the web.
Meanwhile, you and I should continue doing what we do best, writing new content
Their lack of response leads me to believe something dark is coming. We haven't even been acknowledged since when...last Friday or was it Saturday? I'm too lazy to look. I just find this very shady. It takes 30 seconds to come on and post a message. I'm ready to start unpublishing.
Let me tell you, three articles I posted at Wizzley last night before midnight were on page one of Google today, one of them is in the number two position in a pretty populated topic. That's enough to impress me.
I hate to leave Hubpages because I've really loved it here but I'm happy to move my Hubs to Wizzley and Xobba where both site owners are responsive.
You know I have not complained once about traffic through the whole Panda thing and I can always see the positive in every situation but I cannot see positive in being ignored and treated like I don't matter which is exactly how this silence is making me feel. So frustrated.
Your frustration is understandable. I'm not trying to go all rah-rah cheerleader right now, but please do consider that this particular thread is in The Hubber's Hangout - a social section, more than anything else.
I haven't seen an official announcement anywhere, in any thread, but Robin has made a brief appearance or two in another thread, making reference to "talks with Amazon." I don't know that what she said would ease your frustration enough, but I do believe the lack of response in this thread could be partly due to the category it is in.
Wow! really? I've had some pretty good results with xobba.com but although I have joined Wizzley, somewhere in between everything I felt the need to publish my own sites, and so have been spending my time there.
You think it is worth publishing on other people's sites?
I might well sit myself down tomorrow and write myself some decent backlinks.
Well, I've been working on my sites too but I had a few "sales" articles I wanted to do on products that don't fit on my own sites and since they allow affiliate banners and HubPages doesn't, I put them there and traffic is impressive! Oh...and there's Google traffic. I'm pleasantly surprised.
I need to get over to Xobba and get a few more articles written there too.
I do agree about saving a copy of my hubs--I've already started doing that, but have a few more to go.
I make next to nothing with Adsense, and not a whole lot with HubAds, either, so the capsules are my main way of making money. And if they pull the capsules, I lose what chance I have of making much, so it's just not worth it to me right now. I'll keep up the ones I have, of course, and wait to see what happens--I'm not giving up on HP!
I really really hope, though, that they let us know something soon--it's just not right that they are keeping us all in the dark like this.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Amazon stands to make a great deal of money whether the 40% is simply given to them or to the hubber.
I'm assuming that the HP setup with Amazon is the same as ours and that puts them into the highest pay bracket each and every month. I've never crossed 7% commission and suspect the large majority of hubbers are the same.
of course they do, but if 40% of the time, Amazon ads are carried without an affiliation link of any kind then Amazon make more money, not having to pay an affiliate.
I've never crossed 7% either. It's not the percentage I'm talking about, it's quite simply "who collects"?
Amazon do, of course.
Wait a minute, what happens if on their own, HubPages is still very active with Amazon despite every speculation of California issues with amazon? I don't think that assuming any of such will make them respond here as California or not didn't stop our amazon affiliates and hubs earnings on this platform though not as it used to be post panda. No need getting too worried about this either; always have your backup.
If amazon enter in to an affiliate agreement in any way shape or form, direct or indirect, with Hubpages, then they have to pay california sales tax on all products they ship to california. One affiliate means that Amazon would have a 'presence' in that state, so would be liable for taxation.
This is an extreme bending of hte famous phrase, no taxation without representation, but there you go, everyone knows this change is bull.
It is now Thursday and we are still waiting - come on HP this is a very serious issue for many of us, so just communicate a little!
Allow it not to be a very serious issue for you
For many hubbers this is a serious issue. If HP want to reassure worried hubbers they need to communicate more and let people know what is happening.
Hubbers invest a lot of their time and energy into this site, and many of us have lost a lot of our earnings since February and Panda, and are understandably concerned that we are about to lose another source of income.
While I am happy for you that earning on HP is not something that affects you, the HP staff need to step up to the plate and keep us informed. I personally do not want to wake up one morning and find that all of my Amazon capsules have been disabled without any warning, for example
I agree with you. My husband and I are both normally very patient people, but the lack of information from HP is really starting to bother us.
It is ridiculous to NOT take a moment out of their busy schedules to give us some sort of update.
HP has already lost a lot of the major-league hubbers--how many more will they lose if they continue to wear blinders, as far as acknowledging our concerns?
All we want is some communication--is that too much to ask?
Wow..a day later and still no communication. So disappointing.
Pia said she would give an update towards the end of this week. Either she or Paul will do so either today or tomorrow, as promised (and in the thread she started, not in a Hubbers' Hangout thread).
These things do take time, but we'll be sure to share information with the community as soon as we have something in place. Thank you for your patience!
Thanks for your response Jason...it is appreciated. However, I have revisited the announcement thread several times and perhaps I'm overlooking but I see nothing where it says "near the end of the week". I was under the impression from Robin that we would hear something in a few days after the weekend...but nothing. We were told to basically sit tight for a few days. Really, is it that hard for someone to revisit the thread and just let everyone who is commenting know that it's still being worked on? Just acknowledge us.
Comments HAVE been posted in the announcements thread where they should be addressed but have been ignored. Not blaming you because it's certainly not your fault but it's hard to not feel frustrated when you're being ignored.
EDIT: In fact, I just revisited Pia's thread and her OP says "A longer blog post will follow in the next few days giving details on our plans and point of view." Really...it's been 6 days? Am I missing this longer post? Perhaps it should have read a longer post would follow in a week and then maybe Hubbers wouldn't feel so anxious like they're being avoided.
Pia said she would check in again in that linked post in "about a week" and that was 6 days ago. None of us is being evasive; we simply don't have anything to share yet. We have been actively negotiating with Amazon on this since last week, and we can't share anything specific until a deal is hammered out.
I certainly understand your and others' frustration - we would like this to move as fast as possible, too. As Pia said, we are giving this our full attention, even if there's nothing yet to report on it. We do appreciate your patience in the meantime.
So, since Pia or Paul didn't post yesterday--at least that I caught--does that mean their update is coming today?
I apologize in advance if I somehow missed it...
Paul posted a response in the announcements in Pia's original thread.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/78184?p … ost1700315
Thanks for the information Jason, but it only takes 30 seconds to post a message every day, even if it only says 'no news yet folks'.
Makes us feel that we are being kept in the loop and are not being sidelined.
Still P.O.ed about the Amazon deal and it's cramping my mojo in terms of writing... I wasn't making a ton but it was nice to actually write for money. Time to get creative! Vent OVER!
With long thought, I've started deleting my hubs one by one. I'm not making money here, but my blog is - better the hubs on the blog than on here. I'll leave the ones I wrote to advertise - sell products, but I won't go through every hub and delete Amazon, Jerry can do that for me.
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