Curious. Any thoughts on self?

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   My current conclusion is transient. I would like to hear other opinions.

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      TLMinutposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I was just discussing this with someone earlier today. How many limbs can be replaced, how many organs, how much brain surgery or stimulation can be done, how much loss of memory? What is the core that is still the self?

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         paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Jeez...

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         Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The soul.

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            paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry. Define soul as... ???

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               Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               TLMinut already did.
               The core that is still the self.

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                  paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Awareness?

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I dunno.
                     I'd say more like "connection" or "alive".
                     
                     
                     haha paradigmsearch. what a deep subject.  We talk like great philosophers, eh? 

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                        paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        
                        
                        Why not?

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                           Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Absolutely why not!
                           I've personally found that the average person has just as much insight as most "official" philosophers. 

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                  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The core? IS Consciousness.

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Isn't that the same as awareness?

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                        Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        The "awareness" from Consciousness, which tells you you're alive, is what you're actually describing. As I told you before, "soul" and "spirit" are simply descriptive words people apply to other people's actions. There isn't a tangible/substance "soul" or "spirit".
                        
                        Consciousness is real, because it can be measured and defined. YOU can tell you are alive. You measure it yourself. YOU define who you are. The Conscious thoughts running through you head, are yours, not given to you by something else.
                        
                        Having conscious thoughts is what gives you individuality amongst those who surround you. How you handle yourself? Is what you show to people about who you are and what you represent.

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                           paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           I want her to respond to my answer only, please.

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                              paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              I see that she did. Sorry.

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                        cheaptrickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Awareness is the product of consciousness.Human beings conduct consciousness just as cable conducts electricity.We are best suited to that purpose.The greater the electrical current we pass threw cable,the more illumination it produces.By the same token,the greater we increase consciousness the more awareness is generated.Awareness is the key to reality and therefore harmony and that peaceful state of mind we seek...or,there is a liquid short cut called Jack Daniels,but it must be applied over and over and over and...

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                     TLMinutposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Conciousness of self? Awareness of existence? Would that mean a baby has a self or not? An infant has a personality and tendencies but no self-awareness or at least, infants seem to have no awareness of themselves as a separate self.

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      klarawieckposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Dang it Paradigm! You're killing me, man! Go play with a yo-yo or somethin'

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         Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yo-yos!   Fun objects, inanimate until "animated" by someone.

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            klarawieckposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You guys are killing MY VIBE with all that psychobabble! I'm outta here!

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               paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Oh, comeback. No one will change their mind.

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   When self-recognition is lost?

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   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   I constantly have thoughts on self. It helps me maintain myself. Find areas that need improvement. However, I have also learn to accept that specific things about me, that I love about myself and have or see no reason to change those specific things.

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4. 61

   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   Now why wasn’t my first thought, “self-awareness” instead of “first recognition”?

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   OK, core and awareness are the same thing?
   
   Edit: agreed. ? removed.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I meant consciousness and awareness are the same thing....?

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   OK, so if medical awareness removed, then what?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Then the soul (the self, the essence of self) still lives.
      At least that's what I believe.
      Same as if a baby dies.  The child hasn't lived long enough to develop a pattern of thought and words (as far as we know), but he/she still has a soul.

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         paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         And therein we disagree. It is chemical/electrical.

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   Brenda Durhamposted 12 years ago

   I guess it brings us back to the question of whether the soul (if we assume that's the "self") is eternal or finite.
   
   If the soul isn't the self, then this tangent of the discussion is moot.
   
   Edit:  yes, like you posted.  So what do you see as the "self"?  Tangible and temporary?

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      paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Nice try.
      
      Let us continue.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Okay.  But no more rigged IQ tests. .   I still say I'd figure out a way to cross the river by plane or catapult......(if I weren't afraid of heights) because one of those alligators might've decided to skip the meeting.  ha

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            paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Crossed posts. Let us continue.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               What is your "essence"?  What is your "self", if not an eternal soul?   
               It might be easier to consider someone else, like, a friend or loved one.  You've known that person, you see what they're really like, you know pretty much what they'd do in any given situation, there's something about them that you can't literally see but that you know is there.  Does that end when their body dies?  Not just living on in YOUR memory, but isn't there something there that is real but that you just can't put your finger on?

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      paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And thus my inquiry.
      
      
      
      Really?

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   I'm back.

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    paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

    I submit that I did not always exist.
    
    Anyone disagree?

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       Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Me. I disagree.  I submit that you existed in the mind of God since the dawn of time.   Dawn of time is just an expression.   You've existed in the mind of God always.  And you were born for a reason.

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          kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          Hey Girl!
          
          Hope all is well
          
          in san fransisco can you see me?
          

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             Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Hello there.
             Yup; I think I see you on top of that one tall building with the spire.  Wave really big so I can be sure! 
             
             Or is that you in the boat skimmin' across the bay??

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          paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I might have considered the possibility of my existence before and after me before and after me, but you lost me with that god thing.
          
          PS The “duplicate” “before and after me” was not a typo mistake.

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          www.lookseenowposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I never existed in the mind of God, but when my father the life giver planted the seed, I borrowed equal amounts of the genes of father, and mother, thus I am a product of a gene pool dependent upon characteristics passed on from my forefathers.
          
          I am a soul, you are a soul, you-all are souls, and the soul that is living, it itself will die. Ezekiel 18:4 
          
          The original-language terms Hebrew nephesh Greek psyche used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.
          
          (Ezekiel 18:4) Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.

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    paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

    @you Brenda

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    TLMinutposted 12 years ago

    Saying the self is the soul doesn't help though, it's just a different word that still needs definition.
    
    Brenda, I like that point about the baby, the baby still IS someone even before he/she has experiences. But won't the experiences shape and change who that baby is? My aunt just said she doesn't think we're the same person from year to year because of life.
    
    In The Science of Self (by Prof Silver at Princeton), he says, "Schizophrenics have hallucinations, while people with autism seem to have no imagination." If that schizophrenic person is medicated and/or the plasticity of his brain is manipulated and he no longer shows schizophrenic characteristics, is he still who he was? Not much will be the same in his thinking, awareness, reactions...

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    knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

    Jack Daniels, Jack be nimble Jack be quick.
    I always found it to be the opposite.

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