My current conclusion is transient. I would like to hear other opinions.
I was just discussing this with someone earlier today. How many limbs can be replaced, how many organs, how much brain surgery or stimulation can be done, how much loss of memory? What is the core that is still the self?
TLMinut already did.
The core that is still the self.
I'd say more like "connection" or "alive".
haha paradigmsearch. what a deep subject. We talk like great philosophers, eh?
The "awareness" from Consciousness, which tells you you're alive, is what you're actually describing. As I told you before, "soul" and "spirit" are simply descriptive words people apply to other people's actions. There isn't a tangible/substance "soul" or "spirit".
Consciousness is real, because it can be measured and defined. YOU can tell you are alive. You measure it yourself. YOU define who you are. The Conscious thoughts running through you head, are yours, not given to you by something else.
Having conscious thoughts is what gives you individuality amongst those who surround you. How you handle yourself? Is what you show to people about who you are and what you represent.
Awareness is the product of consciousness.Human beings conduct consciousness just as cable conducts electricity.We are best suited to that purpose.The greater the electrical current we pass threw cable,the more illumination it produces.By the same token,the greater we increase consciousness the more awareness is generated.Awareness is the key to reality and therefore harmony and that peaceful state of mind we seek...or,there is a liquid short cut called Jack Daniels,but it must be applied over and over and over and...
Conciousness of self? Awareness of existence? Would that mean a baby has a self or not? An infant has a personality and tendencies but no self-awareness or at least, infants seem to have no awareness of themselves as a separate self.
Dang it Paradigm! You're killing me, man! Go play with a yo-yo or somethin'
Yo-yos! Fun objects, inanimate until "animated" by someone.
I constantly have thoughts on self. It helps me maintain myself. Find areas that need improvement. However, I have also learn to accept that specific things about me, that I love about myself and have or see no reason to change those specific things.
Now why wasn’t my first thought, “self-awareness” instead of “first recognition”?
OK, core and awareness are the same thing?
Edit: agreed. ? removed.
Then the soul (the self, the essence of self) still lives.
At least that's what I believe.
Same as if a baby dies. The child hasn't lived long enough to develop a pattern of thought and words (as far as we know), but he/she still has a soul.
I guess it brings us back to the question of whether the soul (if we assume that's the "self") is eternal or finite.
If the soul isn't the self, then this tangent of the discussion is moot.
Edit: yes, like you posted. So what do you see as the "self"? Tangible and temporary?
Okay. But no more rigged IQ tests. . I still say I'd figure out a way to cross the river by plane or catapult......(if I weren't afraid of heights) because one of those alligators might've decided to skip the meeting. ha
What is your "essence"? What is your "self", if not an eternal soul?
It might be easier to consider someone else, like, a friend or loved one. You've known that person, you see what they're really like, you know pretty much what they'd do in any given situation, there's something about them that you can't literally see but that you know is there. Does that end when their body dies? Not just living on in YOUR memory, but isn't there something there that is real but that you just can't put your finger on?
Me. I disagree. I submit that you existed in the mind of God since the dawn of time. Dawn of time is just an expression. You've existed in the mind of God always. And you were born for a reason.
Hope all is well
in san fransisco can you see me?
I might have considered the possibility of my existence before and after me before and after me, but you lost me with that god thing.
PS The “duplicate” “before and after me” was not a typo mistake.
I never existed in the mind of God, but when my father the life giver planted the seed, I borrowed equal amounts of the genes of father, and mother, thus I am a product of a gene pool dependent upon characteristics passed on from my forefathers.
I am a soul, you are a soul, you-all are souls, and the soul that is living, it itself will die. Ezekiel 18:4
The original-language terms Hebrew nephesh Greek psyche used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.
(Ezekiel 18:4) Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.
Saying the self is the soul doesn't help though, it's just a different word that still needs definition.
Brenda, I like that point about the baby, the baby still IS someone even before he/she has experiences. But won't the experiences shape and change who that baby is? My aunt just said she doesn't think we're the same person from year to year because of life.
In The Science of Self (by Prof Silver at Princeton), he says, "Schizophrenics have hallucinations, while people with autism seem to have no imagination." If that schizophrenic person is medicated and/or the plasticity of his brain is manipulated and he no longer shows schizophrenic characteristics, is he still who he was? Not much will be the same in his thinking, awareness, reactions...
Jack Daniels, Jack be nimble Jack be quick.
I always found it to be the opposite.
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