Bill Cosby convicted finally...

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   jackclee lmposted 5 years ago

   News break...Bill Cosby guilty...could face 30 years of prison.
   Justice is done.
   
   This is a good day for America.
   America’s TV dad is no more.
   Why did he do it?

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      wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I have to wonder what physical evidence was produced at the trial; something beyond some women jumping on the "Me too!" bandwagon and making verbal claims refuted by verbal claims by Cosby.  Must have been something; it's hard to think that 12 jurors could not find "reasonable doubt" with nothing but verbal testimony of what happened 30 years ago.

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         GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I think I recall that Cosby's own testimony circumstantially corroborated several of the women's claims against him. His own testimony about using Qualudes on women seems to fit the pattern and actions some of the women described.
         
         That is the extent of my opinion on this. I haven't followed the story, and don't know what evidence, other than the women's claims was presented.
         
         GA

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   Live to Learnposted 5 years ago

   Although I have no doubt the jury came to a fair decision I do hope for leniency on the man. He has done much good in his life, he is old and his behavior patterns were known within those circles. Taking advantage of a woman is wrong, but putting yourself in harm's way should be considered a factor when sentencing.

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      jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Would you be so lenient and compassionate for OJ as well?
      There is some parallel here even though Bill Cosby did not murder anyone, he did almost as bad by ruining many people’s lives...
      The question for me is why?
      OJ was a crime of passion...that is well understood though no justification.
      
      In Bill Cosby’s case, it is inexplicable. He has wealth and family and successful career and by all account an open marriage. He could have paid for sex and chose this very bad criminal behavior.
      The worst part is he doesn’t seem remorseful of what he did.
      
      He wrote many books on fatherhood, Love and Marriage, grandfathering...time flies...
      I just can’t wrap my head around these two very different peosona.
      Very troubling.
      It shuck my confidence in humanity.
      How could this man face his daughters?

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         Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         His life is ruined. His legacy gone. I wonder why many of these women didn't come forward decades ago, when these things happened. I wonder if any of them suffer any remorse at the knowledge their silence enabled the trauma other women experienced.  Because, the truth is, they do bear some brunt of responsibility.  By not stepping up earlier.

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            Aime Fposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Hold up. You’re hoping that a man who drugged and raped at least one woman (and by your own admission probably many more), found guilty in a court of law, is given leniency... while suggesting that his victims should feel remorse? Unreal.

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               Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               You can certainly take it like that. but, I've always been a believer in looking at the whole picture. I've known cases where the punishment doesn't fit the crime....when you look at what the person has already gone through. What do we seek in our criminal justice system? Retribution? I would hope not. It should be a balance of punishment and rehabilitation.
               
               Can we rehabilitate an aged old man, on the last leg of his life, who was somehow allowed to carry on this predator mentality over many decades? Not really. It would be akin to saying we had rehabilitated a pedophile by castrating him. What he did he can do no more. So, we are left with punishment. What amount of punishment can we inflict that he has not already been subjected to? What is the value of a good name? What is the value of a lifetime of achievement? He was more than an actor and comedian. He has lost, forever, a legacy we all believed he had built.
               
               I'm not saying he should not be punished for horrible and destructive behaviors. I am simply saying that he is a broken and ruined old man, due to all of this coming to light. If he can ever fully encompass, within his mind, the amount of destruction he caused and the horror he inflicted on some of his accusers it will be more beneficial than locking him up until he dies.
               
               That is where our criminal justice system succeeds. When it helps the offender understand and find a place of true remorse. Protecting society did not happen when it should have. We are now past that point with this particular offender.
               
               And, yes. If I lived next door to a man who had raped the woman across the street last year,, then the woman at the end of the block the year before and the woman on the next street over previously etc., etc. etc. over a few decades don't think I wouldn't  look at each and every one of them with a touch of animosity when I was raped and came forward, starting the ball rolling for each of them to tell their story. I could have been spared that horror if each of them stood up and screamed at the rooftops that there was a predator among us.

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                  jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  You make a compelling point.
                  With Cosby, it is more a crime of violating our trust.
                  We have all been seduced to think he is the “America’s Dad” persona.
                  It turned out, he was just the opposite. It shook our confidence in the whole system.
                  I point to the OJ case as a comparable case.
                  His acquittale of murder of two people, shook my confidence in pur legal system and how justice is blind. In that case, it was clear that he was guilty and his fame and his dream team laywers got him off and he smirked at the camera knowing full well he got away with murder. To this day, he did not show any remorse.
                  Cosby is the face of evil. I am not sure redemption or rehabilitation is possible.
                  His career and good deeds over his life time is gone. Obliterated by the 50 + women he violated.
                  I also think his wife has some blame here for protection him and giving him cover for all these years.
                  How can she not know?
                  She is married to this man and had his children...
                  He must be a great actor and deserves an Oscar...

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                     Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Indeed. His wife is a curios figure. I compare her to Hillary and a lot of women of that age. Probably a lot of women of today also. We owe other members of society more than glossing over predatory behavior because we think we are supposed to 'stand by our man'. Do unto others as you would like to be done to you, and all that. I wonder how Cosby's wife would feel if some other man did such to her.

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                        jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        Or her daughters?

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                  wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  You do indeed make a compelling point.  All too often our "justice" system is more about vengeance and revenge - intentionally causing pain and hurt because it makes us feel good to do so - rather than protecting society or teaching people not to hurt. 
                  
                  When we take that line we are reducing ourselves to no more than what the perpetrator is.

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                  Aime Fposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  I absolutely agree that rehabilitation should be a focus. But as you said there does need to be punishment as well. Can Cosby work on rehabilitation? I have no idea. That is for the legal and psych teams to decide. If he can’t does that really mean he should be be given leniency from the punishment involved in his crime? There’s a reason the justice system has specific sentences and programs in place for offenders rather than “he’s lost his reputation so he’s suffered enough.” That’s completely subjective and sets a weird precedent for “normal” people who commit the same crimes. So I guess I’ll ask, what’s your idea of ‘leniency’ in this case and how do you measure what his debt already paid by loss of reputation is in regards to that?
                  
                  I have no idea why you’re comparing it to castrating a pedophile, either. Both are sex crimes, so wouldn’t it only be akin to castrating a pedophile if I was suggesting we castrate Cosby? A pedophile’s reputation is hurt as well, perhaps not as badly as Cosby’s but you know what, if you have a reputation worth protecting then don’t rape anyone. Pretty simple, no?
                  
                  Referencing his age is also another weird stipulation, do you feel that all offenders for all crimes should be free of significant time in prison if they’re past a certain age?

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                     wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     "Referencing his age is also another weird stipulation, do you feel that all offenders for all crimes should be free of significant time in prison if they’re past a certain age?"
                     
                     An interesting question, and I'm not positive there is an acceptable answer.  But some questions along those lines:
                     Is the offender going to repeat the offense, or another one, if set free?
                     Does the offender recognize they wrong they did, and if not, will incarceration force that recognition?
                     We spank a small child in order to communicate that their action was unacceptable, and never to simply cause pain to the child.  Are we incarcerating the offender simply to hurt them or to provide a learning experience?
                     
                     If incarceration provides no additional safety to the public, and the offender isn't going to learn something new (as in acceptable behavior), aren't we simply hurting them because it makes US feel good to do so?  Revenge can be sweet, but is that truly what we want of ourselves?  To become sadists, hurting others for the pleasure it gives us?

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                        Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        Crap. If I'd read your comment first I could have just added a +1 and been done with it.

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                           wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                           But there is one more thing - might incarceration of one prevent another from committing the same crime?  Or if left free, might another think they would get the same thing?  Does deterrent value count in sentencing, and if so is it reasonable to hurt one person because it might prevent someone else from doing the same thing?
                           
                           It's not an easy call.  I'm with you - prison should not be about simple punishment just to be punishing someone.  But, as always, it is gray and there are many considerations.

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                              Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                              Very good points. It is a difficult call with pros and cons on both sides.

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                     Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     I think the comparison stands since I don't think we could ever be certain of rehabilitation. He is old. I don't know how much you know about sex and aging, but a guy his age doesn't have the same ability to act on urges. A guy his age doesn't have the strength to force himself on women. Sure, it doesn't take a lot of energy to slip drugs into a drink but if he doesn't, ever again, would that constitute rehabilitation? I wouldn't think so because I couldn't know.
                     
                     As to punishment, I always look for educating to a level of remorse attained by understanding of the damage done. I am a believer that incarceration's primary purpose should be to protect society. Will society be protected at this stage by incarceration? If not, should a life sentence be imposed? At his age, it may fit, since it wouldn't be that long. But, I do think a lot can be factored in, in his favor. He has also done a lot of good. I'm not advocating a slap on the wrist but if this man can find true remorse I think we owe him some concessions for the good he has done.
                     
                     And,again, I consider the women who remained silent for years as contemptible as I find his behavior.

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                        Aime Fposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        The trauma as a result of sexual assault affects people in such different ways and it becomes even more complicated when the assault is committed by someone deemed to be powerful and important, such as Cosby.
                        
                        I understand that you think women have some responsibility to speak up and while I believe that’s an excellent thing to do if they feel safe and capable of doing so, I certainly don’t think feeling too afraid and ashamed as a result of being raped is on par with actually being a rapist. Absolutely blows my mind that you would suggest such a thing.
                        
                        Do you remember seeing a thread on here not so long ago where more than one person argued that unless a woman had concrete proof that she had been raped she should keep her mouth shut (and I think there was even a suggestion that they should be charged with slander if they spoke up w/o proof)?
                        
                        Victims of rape not only have to deal with the effects of the rape itself but people judging them harshly depending on how they handle it, regardless of how they handle it. Keep quiet? Well that’s just as bad as raping someone! Speak up? Slanderous whore!
                        
                        I’m over it. This just depresses me beyond belief. I’ll leave you to talk about what a great guy Cosby’s been while scolding the women he assaulted. Such fun.

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                           Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                           I think leaving the conversation is probably a good idea.
                           
                           Edit. I will add that women will always be second class citizens in some ways as long as we make excuses for them not standing up for each other, because we see them as weak and incapable.

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