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Obama Knifes America's Poor and Sick in the Back!

Updated on March 15, 2010
Obama to poor & sick people:  SCREW YOU!
Obama to poor & sick people: SCREW YOU!

I just finished watching that sorry, traitorous speech given by Barack Obama about health care.

He is nothing but a coward and a traitor to the American people.

He came out in the beginning of his campaign loudly proclaiming that he would make sure all Americans had health care by supporting HR 676. Three months later he had flip-flopped, and was promoting a plan which favored health care insurance companies instead.

And his speech ran true to form. I knew as soon as I heard him proudly announce that he would "hold insurance companies accountable", that he would knife us all in the back.

And I was right.

There are 49 million people in this country who are going without medical care because they can not afford health care insurance premiums. Many have lost their homes, and are jobless, homeless, and destitute. And many Americans are dying because they can not get health care.

Obama's solution? TO CHARGE THESE PEOPLE A FINE FOR NOT HAVING HEALTH CARE INSURANCE AS IF WE WERE CARS! In fact, he even stated that everyone would be required to purchase health care insurance like they are required to purchase auto insurance, or be fined.

Now how in the world are these destitute, jobless, sick people going to be able to afford to purchase health care insurance? Much less be able to pay the exorbitant fines imposed by a fascist and greedy, money-grubbing government! What sense can this possibly make, to further victimize the very people who are already being victimized by being forced to go without medical care because they can not afford it?

Oh, yes. Obama has it all figured out.

He will hold insurance companies "accountable". (That's a joke! I'd like to see how he proposes to regulate the insurance companies - they sure couldn't "regulate" the SEC, the big banking companies, nor the auto manufacturers, could they? They took our bailout money and awarded themselves multi-million dollar bonuses, invested all our money in China and outsourced factories to other countries, further worsening our collapsed economy and annihilating our jobs, didn't they? Did they save one homeowner from foreclosure? No, they did NOT help one single American! You call that "holding them accountable"? Yeah, right!)

He will prohibit them from denying health care to people who have pre-existing conditions. He will improve communication between health care providers (ie: computerized invasion of medical records privacy!) and he will make it even HARDER for us to protect ourselves from the abuse, medical negligence and malpractice done on poor Americans by greedy, opportunistic doctors than the Bush administration already made it.

And he will also ensure that health care insurance companies enrich themselves even FURTHER by requiring that ALL AMERICANS purchase health care insurance from these thieving, monopolistic entities who have appended themselves like bloodsuckers onto the American people and the health care delivery system.

Ask yourself this: What will they do about the poor and indigent among us who can not afford to purchase a health care plan? And who can not afford to pay a fine of thousands of dollars for not having this insurance? (And, who, naturallly, will continue to GO WITHOUT MEDICAL CARE BECAUSE WE HAVE NO INSURANCE AND NO MONEY!!!!)

What are they going to do to these people when they don't pay their fines? Sick people, poor people, who have no money, and who are doing without medical care. What will they do then?

You can bet your last blood pressure pill it won't be help them get medical care!

Our government intends to do no less that incarcerate these poor sick people and FURTHER victimize them.

I am ASHAMED of the US government.

I am DISGUSTED with the greedy, selfish, heartless, lying creeps who run this country.


We are not cars. We are human beings. And how are people going to pay for fines if they can't afford the health insurance in the first place? Why are people going without health care in the first place? Because they can't afford it. DOH!!!!!!! Obama has slipped his traitorous knife right through the ribs of all poor Americans.

These greedy corporate opportunists are not happy with the trillions they have stolen already. They're not happy with having ruined our economy, and having taken away our homes and our jobs. They want every last single dime from the poor and down trodden in this country. And they will get it any way they can.

There must be a revolution in this country. We must get rid of this fascist government and start all over again with one that truly represents the will of the people - a government that puts the welfare and the well-being of America, and all Americans, before the welfare of corporations, international bankers, and big money.

We have people dying in this country because they can not have medical care, nor proper diagnostics, nor their medications. And I will be the next one of these who are dying.

Medical care is a civil right. Not a privilege for those who can afford to pay for it.

Obama just sentenced me to death.

I can't afford to pay for health care insurance.

I am too sick to work.

I am already doing without health care and all of my medications.

And now on top of that, I will be required to pay a fine and be incarcerated when I can't afford to pay it.

We as Americans should be ashamed of ourselves. Because we have allowed this fascist government to turn us all into valueless, powerless slaves with no rights at all.

When will Americans ever wake up and realize what is happening?


Submit a Comment

  • PubliusRed profile image

    PubliusRed 8 years ago from Georgia

    Good writing MagicStar. I have to say the twits on here that thinks Obama is playing a class warfare game by taking from the rich and giving to the poor must have zero life experiences with government. Politicians including Obama are looking out for the big corporation only. When the fines hit they will hit rich and poor alike but don't worry about it. If it IS in the final bill, it is a multipe amendment constitutional violation and some rich bastard will challenge it to the Supreme Court and have it struck down. (the old auto insurance and health insurance arguments are apples and oranges)

    The thing I worry about is our country continuing to be played as fools by D.C. We, the people, are letting the pols play us off each other for their own gain...and anyone who doesn't see that...well, they are just naive and will jump off the cliff.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Yes, it is very disheartening, isn't it? To realize there is nothing we can do... I never was taken in by the "American Dream", but I thought our government would continue to maintain at least a semblance of compassion for the sick and helpless. I guess even that much is too much to expect anymore.

    The sad part is that this reflects general sentiment in the citizenry. Who are, for the most part, now devoid of empathy, compassion, and love for their fellow man.

    SHAME on those people! God is watching you.

  • profile image

    James Michael 8 years ago

    MagicStarER, I got your note on my hub, thanks for your support. I hear and feel your frustration with the condition of our country. Americans believed in the "American Dream" and as I have written before, it is just a dream not reality. This nation was founded by rich capitalists, and will continue for their benefit until another group more powerful or more intelligent takes it from them. Both political parties are beholden to this profit at any cost cabal-and will stop at nothing, including your life,and don't lose a bit of sleep over it. Obama sleeps well, eats well and has furthered the "dreamscape" in historic proportions. All the real working class democrats were duped into thinking a minority leader couldn't possibly double cross them. No, never. He'll play the violin as their dreams burn.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    They don't care. They are invested in these big corporations, they are making money, and that is all they care about. We need to make laws to keep corporate interests out of our government.

  • Lady Guinevere profile image

    Debra Allen 8 years ago from West By God

    MagicStarER, I got your note on my hub. I wrote back.

    Can't they see that some of us are seeing through their veils of disception---or maybe they can and this is why they are trying harder... Just makes me madder than a hornet!

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Yep, the whole system is designed by, and for the benefit of, those who are invested in huge corporations. And their only motive, as ColdWarBaby stated, is PROFIT. (ie: to get all our money!)

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    Believe it or not, unions and "community organizers" have big money behind them too. It's the people with big money, not the average American that stands to benefit from this so-called reform. Why else do you think they'd unionize all medical providers under the House bill? Unions have been dying for decades, they need their numbers up so they can use your dues and mine to pay for their legacy costs. It's just another way to screw people out of their money so these scum can keep their pie-in-the-sky promises.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To Lady Guinevere: I read your article and you are right, it is crap - I left some research results that might help your husband.

    To ColdWarBaby - I agree with every single word you said. I think all elected officials should just wear jerseys like race car drivers so we know which corporations they represent. Then we can vote for the one we like best.

    To nicomp: Acorn has nothing to do with the health care mess. Big insurance, pharmaceutical, medical device, and health care corporations are the ones who have a strangle-hold on our health care delivery system, and like ColdWarBaby says, have way more money behind them than something like Acorn does, which is just chump change.

    Besides which, I doubt the activities of Acorn have anything whatsoever to do with Obama. I don't like Obama either, even though I thought I was a Democrat... But please keep attacks on Obama to something relevant and proveable.

    Like his failure to stick up for the American People on Health Care and going to bat for big money instead...

  • Lady Guinevere profile image

    Debra Allen 8 years ago from West By God

    You want to see the problem from someone who is going through this crap. Here is the hub address:

  • profile image

    ColdWarBaby 8 years ago

    A handful of lobbyists for various korporate interests throw around more money in a month than goes through an entity like acorn in a year. Compared to the Wellpoints, UnitedHealth groups, Exxon Mobils, General Electrics, etc, the money and power available to such groups is chickenfeed. They may indeed be a part of the problem, or not. If they are, their contribution is minuscule.

    "The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth."

    --H. L. Mencken

  • nicomp profile image

    nicomp really 8 years ago from Ohio, USA

    Obama continues to reward his campaign cronies, SEIU and Acorn. They are big business and they write the legislation.

    Campaign promises? oops.

    No new taxes to pay for health care? oops. How about a tax on "medical devices"? I suspect The Little Guys use pacemakers and hearing aids now and then.

  • profile image

    ColdWarBaby 8 years ago


    Your anger and disgust with the "government" are justified but not for the reasons you suggest. Please keep in mind that around 95% of their "talking points" are memorized or read, word for word, from a script that has been prepared for them by lobbyists for the pharmaceutical companies and the health care industry.

    The same holds true for HR3200. Most of the bill was written by representatives of those same for-profit industries, NOT by the political hacks whose names appear on it. This is the case with virtually all legislation relating to korporate activities. Energy and environmental policies are being created by the oil, coal and gas industries. Everything is done with one goal in mind, the privatization of EVERYTHING with complete elimination of regulation. In the end, it boils down to a simple dichotomous formula, Buy or Die. As long as you've got lots of unearned wealth, you'll be just fine. You'll be able to buy whatever you want. If you're a working wage earner, you're SOL.

    Back to your ire with our alleged government. When you're trying to find out who is at fault for the situation in which we find ourselves, the first step is to follow the money. At the very top of the pyramid sits the plutocracy of the international banking cartel. From there the power descends and diminishes through the korporatocracy and the political lackeys. At the very bottom is the working class, the foundation of any society, which is being crushed to death by the non-productive dead weight of the supremacist elite. All wealth is being redistributed ever upward into the hands of a steadily shrinking number of individuals.

    In the last analysis, there is no government in amerika. Its sycophantic members are owned by and are servants of those at the top. They do not even begin to represent the people. They represent a plutocracy, which is nearing its goal of totally controlling the global economy. Nor do they seek power for their own purposes, but only to pass it to those whom they serve. The government is being privatized and the process is nearly complete. When you express anger and concern about the government invading your privacy or making decisions regarding your health, remember that it's being done at the behest of their masters for the purpose of stealing the last remaining wealth of the American people.

    “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”

    --Benito Mussolini

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To smarleygrl7:

    "Reform of the already existing programs should be put into place instead of creating another failure program by a bunch of people who voted themselves a raise during a recession!"

    I agree with that. We could make the Medicaid program pick up the ones who are falling through the cracks, based on income - the Medicaid program already charges co-pays, we could make it have a sliding-scale, too. And slap some controls on the abusive practices of the insurance companies. That should take care of it. (Plus regulate profit margins on drug and medical supply manufacturers)

    What's so hard about it?

    But, no, they just have to help out their insurance company buddies (and contributors) by FORCING us to BUY THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE!!! This is highway robbery, and as you say, unconstitutional.

  • jiberish profile image

    jiberish 8 years ago from florida

    I just ran across this Hub, and of course by now every know that Health insurance will be mandatory with an/or jail time. Nice going Nobama!

  • smarleygrl7 profile image

    smarleygrl7 8 years ago

    Power has corrupted our government, they have taken power that they do not have in the first place. You are correct they are concerned with money and looking out for their well being and not ours.

  • profile image

    ColdWarBaby 8 years ago

    The cause for all this misery, conflict, suffering and death can be summed up with one word, PROFIT.

    It is the sole motive of those who value personal wealth and power above life itself.

  • smarleygrl7 profile image

    smarleygrl7 8 years ago

    Nicomp I have to agree with you. I am a hard working citizen who came from nothing, my husband also. Anything we have we worked for that including healthcare. As for as everybody recieving healthcare all I will say is have you people not noticed the medicare, social security and welfare systems put in place by the government which have not been sufficient for the needy people it was suppose to help? Reform of the already existing programs should be put into place instead of creating another failure program by a bunch of people who voted themselves a raise during a recession! That showed real concern for the people they supposedly represent! MagicStarER you are absolutely correct about the healthcare reform plan! People really need to start doing their own research. Everything the government does is suppose to be public property to read, try reading the socialist healthcare plan put out by Obama! By the way, socialist countries have been speaking out and warning us that we are heading for hell if we take Obama's plan. Healthcare for animals provided by the tax payers! Come on! And yes you will be fined if you do not purchase insurance. The constitution prohibits the government from forcing the american public to buy anything. REad your rights people, give them more control than they are already taking and you may as well sign our future over to China! WAKE UP

  • nicomp profile image

    nicomp really 8 years ago from Ohio, USA

    "Jesus was a communist. He gave food and healthcare away. He handed it out like Pez candy."

    You're only telling part of the story. He didn't confiscate anything along the way, nor did he dictate to the proletariat. Your vision of Communism is one-sided.

  • Micky Dee profile image

    Micky Dee 8 years ago

    Let me reiterate what I've written: I'm glad Obama made it as president. I'd rather have Cynthia McKinney. That being- he will not come to the rescue. The road to hell is paved with republicans. The democrats are are keeping the tar hot but they also have some feathers. The people getting elected have two jobs. One is to get re-elected. The other is protecting the status quo.

    This is a comment so it will be short. What is the federal reserve? Who owns the federal reserve? Just answer those questions and go from there. Follow the money. Oh but I'm told it's way more complicated than that. No it isn't. Jesus was a communist. He gave food and healthcare away. He handed it out like Pez candy. When republicans and democrats embrace these truths wholly- then we will have a beginning. Now I'll be accused of being a Christian. I believe that Jesus would turn the table over in every temple, court room, and school for starters. We can't afford heaqlth care with dignity. We can't offer poor kids much besides military service and war. I'm an ex-Marine so I've done my hitch but my hitch was to make a better world so that my children wouldn't have to go to some hell halway around the world. This is it huh? No health care but emergency rooms. No health care but welfare jokes and medicare jokes from doctors. You'd better bet your bum that doctors have medicare jokes. I've heard them. Those in the health care profession are the ones most opposed to health care reform. This is a selfish country we live in- especially, specifically at the top. Now excuse me I have to drive my SUV to the mailbox and return quickly to watch this new reality show- it's all about me!

  • nicomp profile image

    nicomp really 8 years ago from Ohio, USA

    @Friendlyword: "no amount of education is going to teach a person decency"

    Agreed. Nor can the government legislate decency.

  • nicomp profile image

    nicomp really 8 years ago from Ohio, USA

    I'm sorry if you're sick and you can't get help. I also know for a fact what the poor are entitled to and how they abuse the privileges. Feel free to attack me if you like; that might make you feel better for a time. I'm not your problem but I'll be your scapegoat.

    I'm not preaching anything. Preaching implies an attempt to change someone's behavior. I am simply telling you how it is.

    I will give one opinion: if you think the government can provide quality health care or even efficient health care, you're dreaming.

  • Friendlyword profile image

    Friendlyword 8 years ago from

    Maybe a week ago, I would have had a argument for you. Today, I have to agree with you 100%. If you read my hubs you will see I defended the man to the end. Now I feel just as betrayed and defeated as you feel. Nicomp is right about what the poor people get in this country. But some fools dont realize you have to lose everything before you can get all that free stuff. I never heard a more callous statement. He read about your circumstances just like the rest of us. Niteriter; no amount of education is going to teach a person decency. MagicStar I hope you can hold on until the Mid-term elections when we can kick out the traitors and paid puppets of the Insurance Companies. There simply not enough Democratic votes to give us a real health care bill yet.

  • Niteriter profile image

    Niteriter 8 years ago from Canada

    Normally I am a light-hearted fellow looking for arguments with no one. This story, though, has disturbed me to no end. There is something terribly wrong with a society that refuses to care for its helpless.

    Nicomp, come on now. You're a good person and you're educated. You know better than to preach idealism at a person in Magic Star's condition. You are speaking theoretical rhetoric; she is living bitter fact.

    MagicStar, keep your chin up. There is a solution out there for you somewhere.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    I am poor and sick. I get none of the things you mention here, nor are they available at all: free dental, free vision, free maternity, free well baby, free inoculations, free emergency, free housing, free transportation to and from the doctor.

    Emergency room visits are NOT FREE!! My last emergency room bill was over $1800. No doctor or dentist will even look at you if you have no insurance and without the money in your pocket to pay them in cash. My vision is 20/4800 and I can not get help with glasses.

    There is no such thing as "free housing" for poor people. In fact, HUD here is not even taking applications - they are backed up for the next ten years! I am losing my home & there IS no help for that.

    And I don't know why you would think you can get "free transportation to the doctor" - I have had to cancel many appointments due to no transportation.

    You are living in lala land. It is obvious that you have no idea whatsoever how people are having to live in this country.

    My being an RN has nothing to do with anything. Except for I have seen first-hand how people are denied diagnostics and procedures that could keep them from dying, because they have no cash and no insurance.

    Your comment is the type that really burns me up.

    It is not only ignorant and heartless, but completely errroneous.

    Typical of heartless, judgmental people, who feel themselves to be somehow "superior" to the rest of the population.

    Just wait till it happens to you! All it takes is to get sick.

    You better pray you don't get sick, because karma is a bitch, as they say...

    EVERYONE should be able to enjoy as good of health as is possible, EQUALLY!

    Or are you trying to tell me that only rich people have the right to be healthy, have glasses, and be pain-free?

    I have to get off here now before I lose control of myself.

    Get some compassion, that's all I have to say to you. Just try.

  • nicomp profile image

    nicomp really 8 years ago from Ohio, USA

    Our poor and sick are treated famously. They get free dental, free vision, free maternity, free well baby, free inoculations, free emergency, free food, free housing, free transportation to and from the doctor. We treat them better than any other country in the world and expect nothing in return. As an RN I'm surprised you don't know that.

    BTW, medical is not a civil right. It's not in the Constitution and it's beyond the purview of the federal government. If you feel so strongly about the topic, and I respect your vigor, I encourage you to work toward passing a constitutional amendment to provide free health care. That's the proper channel for 'change' and it's worked very well for a few hundred years.

    BTW BTW, medical is hot a human right either. Human Rights have to be free, otherwise the very act of enforcing them violates someone elses' Human Rights. Think about it.

  • Niteriter profile image

    Niteriter 8 years ago from Canada

    I am deeply moved by your story. You speak truth; those who oppose you speak hollow rhetoric. A country that places the welfare of corporate industry ahead of the welfare of its people has a questionable future. Write on.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Thanks, Niteriter - You, my most shrewdest friend, have actually noticed the whole point of my fixation on this subject, and it is the one you mentioned in the first paragraph of your comment. (I think we should call our fans here at HubPages "friends" instead of "fans". I would rather have friends than "fans", wouldn't you?)

    The situation I, myself, am in, is the same one that millions of others just like me, are in. Too sick to work, no income, no disability check, no way to pay the bills, either homeless or about to be, and no health care.

    (Read about how they are treating people in the emergency rooms in Michigan, here: (by pgrundy)

    We will soon all be dead or "internally displaced" in our own country. They will soon be herding us into internment camps "for our own good".

    I'm not just bitching for politics' sake. If a public option of some sort that will allow me to get proper medical care and my medicine is not passed, I will die without it. Every day I go without my medications, more damage is being done to my lungs.

    You are right, corporate interests should have no place in the delivery of health care and pharmaceuticals. But, then, we live in a fascism here. People are just blind and refuse to see it.

    Our congressmen and Senators should be required to wear jerseys with their corporate sponsor/owners' names on them, like Nascar racers do. Then we could just vote for the company we like best.

  • Niteriter profile image

    Niteriter 8 years ago from Canada

    I am aghast! Did you people not see this? "If I don't get medical treatment, I will be dead within 2 years. I am 53."

    MagicStar, this is a riveting and heartrending story. As a member of the human race, I apologize for the insensitivity of the louts who came on here and used your very poignant post as a sounding board for their heartless and meaningless philosophies. I admire you for your courage, your ability to stand up for yourself, your willingness to stand your ground, and your wisdom which you have so painfully earned.

    I live in another country so I will refrain form entering into your national debate. I will say this, however: Corporate profits and the welfare of a citizenry do not belong in the same conversation.

    Incidentally, if you lived in Canada, you would not be left to languish and die in the neglect you so vividly describe.

  • profile image

    carol 8 years ago

    i know someone who could not get medical treatment and died because of it .. my dad.. he had a heart condition and they would not treat him he had no way to pay. while he kept trying to get healthcare and insurance he lost his job to downsizing. one night he went to sleep and never woke up. his heart just quite.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    to roastedpinebark - thanks for the respect given - I'm giving it back to you for being so level-headed and well, respectful! :) I don't know what anyone else could have done differently with the economy - it was all in a shambles and the bailouts already in place before Obama got there. Not Obama's fault...

    They are all working for the same masters anyway...

    The appearance of the economy "recovering" is an illusion. By Christmas, I predict there will be food shortages, and very serious problems about the swine flu, social unrest, and maybe even martial law.

    I believe the troubles are only just beginning. We have too many militias forming and too many states with secession movements for things to calm down - there are still over 16% of Americans (very low estimate - maybe as high as 1/5th of American??) who have no jobs and no income. Tempers are hot over this HR 3200 bill. We'll not be relaxing anytime soon.

    All I can say is get yourself as self-sufficient as you possibly can. There's not much time left to do this. Stock up on food and other items you would need to survive. (See what to stock up on here: )

  • roastedpinebark profile image

    roastedpinebark 8 years ago from Iowa

    MagicStarER, you've got guts posting this, I'm glad this was the first hub of yours I've ran across.

    You know, I've read a lot of the bill too and you backed up everything you said pretty good so I'd say that gives you the right to complain.

    Right now I've basically been more distracted by the economy this last week, being apparently on the rise and many thinking that Pres. Obama has successfully turned the tide of a depression. I'm afraid of the costs of this temporary tide, though. Whats the US's national debt now? Well, looks to be about 12 trillion dollars....and how much up is that since Pres. Obama entered into the presidency..... I think I could get a country out of a depression blowing $2 trillion as well, no offense. But guys, this is going to have implications. Things will be better at first, duh, but we can't fix a problem by throwing money at it like this. I'm afraid we're just digging a bigger hole for ourselves but hey, what would Mr. McCain or whoever else have done drastically different? I'm not saying I agree with Pres. Obama's choices at all, I just wish I could figure out a different way of doing things I guess.

    Well, sorry for the fairly off topic rant, MagicStarER, but thanks for posting a very controversial hub up and using your freedom of speech to state your opinions on bill 3200!

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To BeccaHubbardWoods - I am sorry you are having such a hard time, and even harder with your 2 little boys. They sure make it hard for people to come out ahead, seems like no matter which way you go, you can not come out winning.

    I sure hope things get better for all of us very soon.

    Thanks for reading & commenting!

  • BeccaHubbardWoods profile image

    Becca Hubbard-Woods 8 years ago from Outside your window.

    Great, great hub. I enjoyed every second of it. We are going through the same crap right now with health insurance. We are a couple who both work full time with two young boys and we have to have insurance. The plain and simple fact is, we cannot afford it. It costs us $400 a month to insure all four of us. That cuts our already small income down to practically pennies. We don't qualify for Medicaid because we make too much, and we don't qualify for AllKids because we make too little. I think the situation sucks because we don't have the choice to go without it and we are almost starving with it (our income is too high for food stamps, what a laugh). Not to mention that I suffer from once having bilateral pulmonary emboli and cannot afford the MRI ($3500 I believe)to make sure there are no more as it is considered a pre-existing condition. In essence, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Oh, veterinarians were first mentioned as being an emergency medical situation resource by FEMA and the Dept. of Homeland Security. And then again in HR 3200 for the same reason. Again, read the bill.

    It is true that some people have exaggerated these statements out of all proportion.

    TO LEDEFENSETECH: (Thanks for this idea, it was a good one!) New hub about what to expect in nursing school is up - a laugh or two after all this deathly seriousness?

    "So You Want To Be An RN - Getting Ready For Nursing School"

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    These two items came from

    1) The Attorney General would have access to your personal, financial, and medical records under the bill. Financial information and details will be available to everyone involved in the health care system.

    2) Veterinarians are included in the public health care emergency delivery system as persons who will be trained and called upon in emergency medical situations.

  • EYEAM4ANARCHY profile image

    Kelly W. Patterson 8 years ago from Las Vegas, NV.

    I don't know where this idea that veterinarians will be treating humans came from, but that's just silly.

  • EYEAM4ANARCHY profile image

    Kelly W. Patterson 8 years ago from Las Vegas, NV.

    "As far as all this writing about the government having access to our bank accounts, I don't know where that is coming from, and it sounds like some of these misguided email scare tactics that are coming out of the woodwork from the far right groups..."

    I addressed this on a different hub Valerie, but that's a pretty good description of it.

    In one part of the original bill it requires a system for electronic account transfers to be set up. People opposing the bill jumped on that (either out of ignorance or out of deliberate misinformation or both) to imply the Government would be gaining access to your bank account. What it actually would have done is create a system between hospitals and the Government to speed up the reimbursement of medical bills under the public option. The transfers would have been between them and would have nothing to do with your personal bank account.

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    Doing it their way, Valerie, is a scam. That's why they need to force people to pay premiums. Maybe I need to do a hub on insurance and what it's for. We really shouldn't have to use insurance to pay for routine doctor's visits, only for things like surgery and other life threatening emergencies. Using insurance for doctor's visits really doesn't make much sense. It's like using your car insurance to pay for car repairs. Can you imagine how much you'd pay for car insurance if you had to use insurance to pay your mechanic?

  • valeriebelew profile image

    valeriebelew 8 years ago from Metro Atlanta, GA, USA

    I support the president's original plan for a public healthcare option. I do not support any mandatory purchase of health insurance forced by the government. I resent being forced to pay auto insurance, and have had to pay it at times when I did not have enough money to feed myself or pay my utility bills. We all need to protest this latest development of forcing people to buy premiums. It was not part of the original plan as I understood it, and is just the opposite of what poor people need. If we could afford to pay for health insurance out of our pockets, we would already be doing so. As far as all this writing about the government having access to our bank accounts, I don't know where that is coming from, and it sounds like some of these misguided email scare tactics that are coming out of the woodwork from the far right groups who want to see our president fail. We need to all call our congressmen and protest the forced purchase deal. Other than that, we need to support healthcare reform.

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    We agree on that. Honestly, I don't agree with the co-op plan either. It doesn't address the core problem which is one of supply. Still I have relatives in Mexico who are nurses, doctors, etc. Should any healthcare "reform" pass in Washington, well we'll make our fortune in medical tourism.

    That's one of the reason's I've decided to become a physician's assistant. They and nurse practitioners are going to accumulate more and more power. After all they're the ones who, in the future, are going to actually treat people. That's why people defer to the "wisdom" of doctors, they treat people. But they've been doing less and less of that, so people will no longer feel beholden to them. That loyalty will be transferred to the people who actually treat the public.

    At any rate, I'm looking forward to your hub, I'm glad I gave you the idea, it's a field that is critically short of good people right now.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    to ledefensetech:

    You just gave me a good idea for a new hub: Tips for Preparing for Nursing School! Watch for it soon! :)

    I am not too well-read on the East India Trading Company and China Trade, so I will have to study up on it before I say anything. I'm glad we can agree on a few things, we can "agree to disagree" on some others.

    But Obama's Health Care Plan is WRONG.

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    Huh. Actually I decided on RN because it will only take me a year to complete, I can then get credit enough for a BSN so I'll only have to take 2 semesters worth of classes and then I'm off to get a master's as a Physician's Assistant. I've got most of the prerequisites done like English, Psych, etc. Oh yeah, I also worked as a psychiatric aide for a mental health facility. Some of the admin people there were dyed in the wool Nazi's too.

    I'll have to study up on microbiology though, I never took any of those classes. Chemistry and A & P I'm good in. The program doesn't start until July so while I was waiting I thought I'd get my books early and get to reading. I hope to have most of them disassembled and written up again as notes before I walk into my first class.

    Thanks for the heads up.

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    Wow, I'm amazed that the definition you provided hit the nail on the head with the first definition. Where did you find the resource? I find most references to be a bit, ah skewed when defining terms. Wasn't it Lenin who said if you wished a successful revolution to "first confuse the language"?

    So a monopoly is a government enforced control of a commodity or good. Since the government has given this power to corporations, what makes you think they're going to take it away? I'm curious to know how much you know about the history of the East India Trading Company. There are many parallels between what the China Traders faced with the Company and what we face today with corporations vis a vis the government.

    I've finished my central hub, I'll be providing details in others soon. I was surprised to find myself in agreement with a couple of your points as well as intrigued by a couple of others. I'd be grateful for feedback if you'd like to check it out.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky


    n. pl. mo·nop·o·lies

    1. Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service: "Monopoly frequently ... arises from government support or from collusive agreements among individuals" (Milton Friedman).

    2. Law A right granted by a government giving exclusive control over a specified commercial activity to a single party.


    a. A company or group having exclusive control over a commercial activity.

    b. A commodity or service so controlled.

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    You hit the nail on the head when you used the word monopoly. Who grants the monopoly, I wonder? Actually I know, but I'm curious as to whether or not you know what a monopoly is and where they get their power to force a price they think is fair.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To eyeam4anarchy: Thank you very much for reading and commenting, thanks for clarifying what the income threshold will be for determining whether or not people will qualify for the waiver.

    to ledefensetech: oh-oh, you're writing a hub on my points? Looks like I'm in trouble now! LOL! :)

    Yes, lowering costs of drugs, assistive devices, costs of overhead at hospitals and other health care facilities, and standardizing rates for doctor visits, surgical procedures, hospital stays, etc, would do a lot towards making health care more accessible.

    The problem is that we have allowed our health care delivery system to be monopolized by huge corporations who are only in it to enrich themselves at the expense of those who are helpless to defend themselves from these vultures. Starting with the drug companies, device and equipment manufacturers, the big corporations who run health care facilities, health care insurance providers, and even the doctors themselves! Anything that is necessary for "human health care" automatically becomes exorbitantly expensive. Eg: my friend who is an amputee is getting a new leg prosthesis.

    * the rubber that fits over his stump is priced at $867! The price for Medicaid purposes is $524. (That hunk of rubber is probably only REALLY worth about $6 or so?)

    * The metal part of the leg itself is priced at $4267. Medicaid quote? $2500.

    You can see from this that we must regulate how much these manufacturers are allowed to charge for these things and for drugs, too.

    Eg: my inhaler probably only costs $5.00 in Mexico. Here it is $42.

    We must stop all these big corporations from adding their profits to our health care products and services!!!! If that takes the government to take it over, then so be it. That does work in Mexico!

    That is only a start though. We must still provide a way for poor people to get health care. And not just medical, but also vision and dental.

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    Wonderful, hey I didn't know you were an RN. Any tips for preparing to go through an RN program?

    As for your points I think I'll devote a hub to answering those points. I'll let you know when I'm done.

    Would you agree that lowering costs of going to the doctor and getting other medical care to be a way to ensure that the poor can access it?

  • EYEAM4ANARCHY profile image

    Kelly W. Patterson 8 years ago from Las Vegas, NV.

    First of all, while its true that you can get a waiver from the requirement if you can't afford health insurance, whether you can afford it is determined by the government. The threshold for a single person is $14,000/yr income. That won't mean you have insurance (outside of emergency room care), it just means you won't be fined for not having it. And yes, the fines are imposed on everyone who the Government doesn't issue an exemption to, not just wealthy people who choose not to carry insurance.

    As far as what will happen if you don't pay the fine, you're not going to like the answer. The fines will be collected as part of your taxes through the IRS. We already know what a joy it is to deal with those guys.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    to ledefensetech:

    As an RN, I can think of some very good ways to lower health care costs. (which, btw, is only one side of the health care coin, the other is making sure poor people can get health care!)

    Here are some of those ways, (though I am sure not all)

    1) Put limits on the % of profit earned on drugs and assistive devices, medical equipment, etc.

    2) Put limits on the % of profit earned by physicians and health care providers.

    3) Institute some of the same regulations on health care insurance providers enumerated in Obama's bill (I agree with the bill here about not allowing health insurance cos. to deny people with pre-existing conditions, pricing regulations, etc.)

    4) Focus more on preventive care to reduce the number of emergency room and critical/intensive care incidents and hospitalizations.

    5) Create more openings in colleges for nursing and other health care programs. When I went to college, I had to wait 3 1/2 years to get into the program, there was not enough room! It's this way all over the country - create more room, more instructors, for health care professions. Then there will be more health care workers.

    6) More support for home-care. Many, many people that are in nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and psychiatric hospitals could be taken care of by their families at home. Give people training and/or tax breaks or whatever it takes so they will be more inclined to care for their "loved ones" at home. Americans do not make themselves responsible for sick family members - this is a throwaway society - we throw our family into "facilities" when they get sick instead of taking care of them. It's time Americans got some responsibility. That mentality of "stick Grandma in the home" so our lives won't be "inconvenienced" is not only cruel and selfish, but also very expensive and we all bear the burden financially. As an RN, I have seen hundreds, if not thousands of people in these facilities, who could very well have been taken care of by their families with hardly any trouble at all.

    7) Stop placing restrictions on malpractice suits - doctors now think they are God, and they don't have to provide good service because there's nothing we can do to them if they don't.

    8) Encourage natural and herbal remedies and practitioners and make this part of the health care delivery system, provide more true diet and health care education to teach people how to take better care of themselves. (Not just treating symptoms, like we do now!)

    and 9) Another very good way I can think of just off the top of my head is for the government to loosen up the restrictions on what drugs we can buy over the counter. In Mexico, for example, if you know what medicine you need, you just go to the drug store and buy it, without having to see an MD first. Like in my case, I can just go to the pharmacy and buy my inhalers and breathing treatments without a prescription. (you can pretty much buy any medication over the counter down there except for narcotics and psychotropic drugs - those must be prescribed by a doctor or psychiatrist) This saves a whole lot of money on useless office visits and frees up a whole lot of time on the physicians so they can tend to people who need more immediate attention. It also lets people get what they need without having to pay for an expensive doctor visit.

    This is just a start.

    The US really could learn a whole lot by studying Mexico's government health care plan, the Seguro Social and ISSTE. This is health care provided to ALL workers and state workers by the Mexican government. They pay a small fee out of their monthly wages to receive this insurance, and can insure their whole family, including mother, father, husband, wife, children. You can then go to the government clinics, hospitals, labs, and get all your doctor visits, hospital stays, operations, diagnostics, and medications for free. Medications are approved by the government and are very inexpensive. I think they may prohibit drug companies from making too much profit on them, but I can't remember how it is that they do this. So I won't elaborate more.

    When I lived there, I also had Seguro Social. It cost me about $6 a month. Also, these government programs allow people to purchase housing at a reduced rate.

    The Seguro Social and ISSTE hospitals have some of the best doctors in the world. No one there has to go without health care, nor without their medications. If Mexico can do it, why can't we?

    You are not required to have this insurance if you don't want it. The alternative is to buy your own private insurance, or as many people do, to pay for your own medical expenses, which are very cheap. A visit to the Dr's office is around $20, for example. Granted, it may take a little time to get through the Seguro Social clinic and diagnostic process, but the same happens here.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Oh, btw, some relevant stats:

    Lady_E on HubPages

    Born and live in London, UK.

    (not affected by this health care bill in the slightest, nor by any other policies adopted by the US government, nor a registered voter in our country)

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    MagicStar, you got that job before the massive inflation in prices due to Nixon going to a totally fiat currency and the subsequent rise in prices of everything made us poorer. So no, it wasn't just union jobs that did us in, but they played their part. Does it mean anything to you to know that the purchasing power of the dollar has declined by 95% over the last century?

    You don't seem to understand what is needed to lower costs. It's not just enough to pay for healthcare costs, you ideally want to lower them. Lower cost = more access to healthcare, right? How does this bill do that? It doesn't. The only way to lower the cost of something is to increase the supply of it. How would you go about increasing the supply of healthcare providers?

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    I do not detest the fact that Barack Obama is president. In fact, I encouraged everyone to vote for him, although he was not my first choice - Dennis Kucinich was my first choice. Mostly because the alternative was dreadful. I don't even blame Barack for the state things are in. George Bush handed that mess to him. But I am not infatuated with Obama like most people seem to be, nor with anyone else. He is no "saviour" and no "knight in shining armour" - he is a human being. And I do not agree with him on the above points in his health care bill. It has nothing to do with him, but with the bill.

    What I am angry at him about, however, is the way he has flip-flopped on his stance on health care, and his failure to stand up for the American people and not big insurance and pharma corps.

    And yes, I AM disgusted with the way the Constitution and our rights have been destroyed. And I am not afraid to say it. Anyone who is not dead or asleep is disgusted, too. Why aren't you?

    Obviously I must have struck a nerve somewhere. Why are you so offended that I should express my opinion? You can be offended if you so desire - it will not change me nor stop me from expressing it. So far as I know, we still do have free speech, though perhaps not for much longer. As long as we do, I will keep on talking.

  • Lady_E profile image

    Elena 8 years ago from London, UK

    Listen to yourself and reading through the comments, most people don't even agree with you.

    "I am so angry, I doubt I'd be able to sleep tonight". PLease! Well, hope you finally managed to get some.

    your comments:

    "I am disgusted with the way the US Constitution has been gutted and our rights slowly eroded to the point where we barely have any. I am disgusted with the land of the free turned into "The Prison Nation" of the world. I am disgusted with the way our government has ruined our economy with their corporatist interest motivated bills. I am disgusted with the way they have squandered our country's assets and the respect we used to receive from the rest of the world, and with how they kill millions in our name and with our money, but Americans have no jobs and no health care."

    Is there anything else your disgusted with? because after his Term of Presidency, you should consider running for the Position. It seems like you'd do a damn good Job.

    I don't know why some people detest the fact that Obama is their President. Don't give yourself a Hernia.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To Bohemian Joe: Thanks for coming to read! Joe the Bohemian is the best blogger on MySpace. See him here:

    To StoreN2: Stop leaving spam on my hub about buying Ugg boots!

    To Sonja & MLM Guide - thanks for reading and commenting.

  • profile image

    MLMGuide2Millions 8 years ago

    My only comment is that IF you support him, get loud about it! Because those that voice the strongest are getting what they want and stop at nothing to undermine any real positive movement.

    Get LOUD

  • sonjatp profile image

    sonjatp 8 years ago

    I pray for us all that this administration with finally learn how to work together for the better of the people!

  • profile image

    Bohemian Joe 8 years ago

    Great blog Magic.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Here is a message from "Stephanie Sunshine & the Scott Brigade"


    "Tell'em about pages 1000 to 1007 where it explicitly talks about the rfid chip. ALSO about the fact that Emanuel Ezekiel, Rahm's brother is a huge advocate of the deaths of the elderly via eugenicide, and has been given a key role in the White House concerning the deathcare bill. ALSO that they have a real time access to all your accounts, and get paid in real time. ALSO you can refer them to Aaron Russo talking about his talks with Nick Rockefeller, which talks about the chip, and it's really ALL ABOUT THE CHIP, hope this helps.....: )" UNQUOTE

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To Preston, Of Course:

    "this type of inability to comprehend simple facts bore me."

    Of whom do you speak?

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To Justin: WTF??? A poor person who is vetoed out of having health care is expected to be responsible for his own health care when he falls down and breaks his leg then?

    Your whole comment sounds ridiculous. Sorry. NOT the answer!

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Here's what Dennis Kucinich says today about this bill:

    A lesson in politics. The Kucinich Prediction: Here's what's going to happen ...

    House will make a big deal about keeping/putting a public option in HR3200 because it competes with insurance companies and will keep insurance rates low.

    The White House will refer to the President's speech last week where he spoke favorably of the public option.

    The Senate will kill the competitive public option in favor of non-competitive "co-ops". Senate leaders like Kent Conrad have said the votes to pass a public option were never there in the Senate.

    The bill will come to a House-Senate Conference Committee without the public option.

    House Democrats will be told to support the conference report on the legislation to support the President.

    The bill will pass, not with a "public option" but with a private mandate requiring 30 million uninsured to buy private health insurance (if one doesn't already have it). If you are broke, you may get a subsidy. If you are not broke, you will get a fine if you do not purchase insurance.

    This legislative sausage will be celebrated as a new breakthrough and will be packaged as health insurance reform. However, the bill may require a Surgeon General's warning label: Your Money or Your Life!

    The bill that Congress passes may pale in comparison to the bill that millions of Americans will get every month/year for having or not having private health insurance.

    It will take four years for the new legislation to go into effect. During that time we are going to build a constituency of millions in support of real health care, a constituency which will be recognized and a cause which is right and just: Health Care as a Civil Right.

    Join our efforts. Sign the petition. Contribute. Insure a democratic future.

    Dennis Kucinich

    Sign the petition:

  • profile image

    preston, of course 8 years ago

    this type of inability to comprehend simple facts bore me.

  • profile image

    Justin 8 years ago

    Btw, my post is part of an article titled "A Four Step Healthcare Solution" on this site:


  • profile image

    Justin 8 years ago

    Everything in politics boils down to economics; what is the best economic choice to benefit the economy which then benefits everyone or what is not the best economical choice.

    Here is the ONLY ECONOMICAL Healthcare Solution:

    1. Eliminate all licensing requirements for medical schools, hospitals, pharmacies, and medical doctors and other health-care personnel. Their supply would almost instantly increase, prices would fall, and a greater variety of health-care services would appear on the market.

    Competing voluntary accreditation agencies would take the place of compulsory government licensing — if health-care providers believe that such accreditation would enhance their own reputation, and that their consumers care about reputation, and are willing to pay for it.

    Because consumers would no longer be duped into believing that there is such a thing as a "national standard" of health care, they would increase their search costs and make more discriminating health-care choices.

    2. Eliminate all government restrictions on the production and sale of pharmaceutical products and medical devices. This means no more Food and Drug Administration,.. which presently hinders innovation and increases costs.

    Costs and prices would fall, and a wider variety of better products would reach the market sooner. The market would force consumers to act in accordance with their own — rather than the government's — risk assessment. And competing drug and device manufacturers and sellers, to safeguard against product liability suits as much as to attract customers, would provide increasingly better product descriptions and guarantees.

    3. Deregulate the industry. Private enterprise can offer insurance against events over whose outcome the insured possesses no control. One cannot insure oneself against suicide or bankruptcy, for example, because it is in one's own hands to bring these events about.

    Because a person's health, or lack of it, lies increasingly within his own control, many, if not most health risks, are actually uninsurable. "Insurance" against risks whose likelihood an individual can systematically influence falls within that person's own responsibility.

    All insurance, moreover, involves the pooling of individual risks. It implies that insurers pay more to some and less to others. But no one knows in advance, and with certainty, who the "winners" and "losers" will be. "Winners" and "losers" are distributed randomly, and the resulting income redistribution is unsystematic. If "winners" or "losers" could be systematically predicted, "losers" would not want to pool their risk with "winners," but with other "losers," because this would lower their insurance costs. I would not want to pool my personal accident risks with those of professional football players, for instance, but exclusively with those of people in circumstances similar to my own, at lower costs.

    Because of legal restrictions on the health insurers' right of refusal — to exclude any individual risk as uninsurable — the present system is only partly concerned with insurance. The industry cannot discriminate freely among different groups' risks.

    As a result, health insurers cover a multitude of uninsurable risks, alongside, and pooled with, genuine insurance risks. They do not discriminate among various groups of people which pose significantly different insurance risks. The industry thus runs a system of income redistribution — benefiting irresponsible actors and high-risk groups at the expense of responsible individuals and low-risk groups. Accordingly, the industry's prices are high and ballooning.

    To deregulate the industry means to restore it to unrestricted freedom of contract: to allow a health insurer to offer any contract whatsoever, to include or exclude any risk, and to discriminate among any groups of individuals. Uninsurable risks would lose coverage, the variety of insurance policies for the remaining coverage would increase, and price differentials would reflect genuine insurance risks. On average, prices would drastically fall. And the reform would restore individual responsibility in health care.

    4. Eliminate all subsidies to the sick or unhealthy. Subsidies create more of whatever is being subsidized. Subsidies for the ill and diseased promote carelessness, indigence, and dependency. If we eliminate such subsidies, we would strengthen the will to live healthy lives and to work for a living. In the first instance, that means abolishing Medicare and Medicaid.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    ixwa: The Conyers/Kucinich bill is HR 676, not HR 646.

    The bullet points were quoted from HR 3200, Obama's Health Care Bill.

    When I referred to going back and checking, I meant I would go back and look at the part referring to veterinarian, I did not mean that I had not read the bill. I have read the entire bill, all 1,018 pages of it. Have you?

    "sounds like a cataclysmic miasma on our lives" - That's because it IS just that!

    And if I sound harsh and pissed off, that's because I AM.

    I am disgusted with the way the US Constitution has been gutted and our rights slowly eroded to the point where we barely have any. I am disgusted with the land of the free turned into "The Prison Nation" of the world. I am disgusted with the way our government has ruined our economy with their corporatist interest motivated bills. I am disgusted with the way they have squandered our country's assets and the respect we used to receive from the rest of the world, and with how they kill millions in our name and with our money, but Americans have no jobs and no health care.

    But, still, as badly as we need health care, we must not let the government be the supplier of health care nor the decider of who gets what treatment, nor should we allow our private and financial records be the domain of the government, nor the Attorney General, nor every Tom, Dick, and Harry who wants to see it.

    As badly as I want poor people to have health care, I don't want Americans to lose every right they have left, nor for our thus far untrustworthy government to be entrusted with our very lives.

    I don't know what will happen, nor what bill they will come up with in the end. But I am sure that it will be something that will give the federal government more power and American citizens less.

    Sorry I come off as brash and condemning. But I am not happy with our government nor with how they have ruined this country. Yes, I am angry. What do you want me to do? Say everything is hunky-dory and they're doing a wonderful job? Where are all those trillions they stole for the bailouts?

  • MikeNV profile image

    MikeNV 8 years ago from Henderson, NV

    How can he hold insurance company executives accountable when he can't even hold Wallstreet Executives accountable. Sheese he appointed load of them to his cabinet. He talks the talk.

    The reality is that mandated health care will hurt the poor. Tax Credits are not money. You still have to come up with the money... then wait until you file to get a credit.

    How are people who are barely getting by going to manage that? And at what price will coverage be offered? I worked for a Health Insurance Company and premiums for individuals were no where near "affordable" for the poor.

    This is not an insurance plan its socialize medicine. And Doctors will simply opt out and choose to treat those with private insurance.

    Have you ever tried to see a specialist who is at the top of their field? Many of them opt out of insurance plans alltogether. They simply quote a price and if you want to see them you pay. If your plan will reimburse you fine, if not then... move on. You think a socialized medicine plan will get you through the door.

    Mandated Healthcare is a disaster waiting to happen. Making coverage available and mandating coverage with the threat of penalty are not the same thing.

    But to stick everything on Obama is wrong as well... as there are two parties and neither of them is coming up with much of a plan that is in the best interests of the American Public.

    We do have 10 billion a month however to continue to blow up things in remote deserts of the middle east.

    The funny weird irony is if you don't pay the fine will they arrest you? Because once in jail they have to provide the inmate medical care!

  • ixwa profile image

    ixwa 8 years ago

    Yeah! I would like to think that the information, both the article and the excerpts you presented about the Bill could be synthesized into a more chewable and digestible way for us the uninformed. For instance, you come out saying " you just watched that sorry traitorous... Well, since this is a free country, one can say whatever they want, but you 'cannot yell fire in the theatre',and not be held liable. The point you are making is that Obama reneged on his promise to support HR 646, and you say he flipped and is now supporting a plan that is favoring Insurance companies. So far so good, I get your drift free of all the unnecessary and negative verbiage, denunciations and harsh tones. Then, in your response you go onto listing all the subsections of different laws, of a 1,000 page manuscripts to try and 'awaken' and inform your audience. This could have gone into your pointing out how Obama has reneged on his promises. I think those that you selected do pacify and somehow agitate your audience, me included. I wish you could have cited from the HR 3200, which you promised to go back and look at, and hope you add to the itemize this one too with the litany of those you have listed in your response. It is one thing to provide facts and another thing to use obtuse language of cyber virus to prop-up your discourse; your narrative becomes and sounds like a cataclysmic miasma on our lives. What I am getting at is that what you are saying may have some kernel of truth, but it need to be consistently sharpened with a lot of political, social, media and so forth, savviness that does not in the end sound like an angry rebuttal of the present system, instead becomes an article which informs and suggests; nothing is really doom and gloom, although most of us are suffering like you do and are as we are all facing serious health threats to our being, and we, the Americans, as being doomed. Nah, a different approach is needed to square-up with the reality we are experiencing. I went and listened to the Zeitgesist diatribe and read all the different comments on it, and have this to say. There are a lot of books on the history of everything, and then there is the Historiography of History. I am more Fascinated by the two being studied and understood from 'Beginning" To "Present". I might have to write several hubs on that, but for now, I think you could use a less harsh, aggressive and ranting tone, but a more informed and simplified form with all the data you already have.

    I really think calling for a revolution is a very irresponsible statement, since this article is viral. We cannot afford to abuse the very medium we are trying to use to reach others. Calling for the destruction of the present system and build what... a new one- which one?... is a very careless way of trying to get your ideas to the fore-front of the peoples consciousness and hearts. If you say "Take your change and shove it, Obama. You Lily-livered, four-faced, yellow-belied, lying, corporate interest, sucking piece of crap", does not win you many adherents, as you painfully cry, "When will Americans ever wake up and realize what is happening?" That detracts from you message in that what you are now saying has got nothing to do with the Health Care discourse, but personalized attacks, you heartily revoke. I realize that you are so angry that you will not be able to sleep at night. I do not think the majority of Americans have been able to sleep well at night as you have astutely pointed out on all the economic, political, social and spiritual woes all of us undergoing, no matter of what ilk. What you are going through is what is going on country-wide. I have no job and healthcare, and am suffering from debilitating diseases, but, adding to ones emotions more stress than necessary is ill-advised. This Health Bill is still going to be hammered out and it would be interesting to see what's the final product. To you, Obama might be sticking the knife in the backs of the poor and sick, I see it as a very slow process of pulling ourselves out of the ditch. He told the crowds(Obama), that the whole process is going to be slow and painful, but it was, doable, he pointed out. I liked your breakdown in defense of how jobs staying in the country benefited us. It was a very good read, and instructive. Those are the points that can point out and build your argument succinctly.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    I think, too, that this is more than likely the prelude of the "Mark of the Beast" - please learn about the United Nations - a good place to start is at YouTube watch the 4 part series "Peace Dove Unmasked - the United Nations" then Google Agenda 21 and Habitat II. Then you will understand what's going on. Learn about theosophic one world religion advocated by the globalist United Nations, which is nothing more than Satanism. (Start here: and here: )

    And then you'll know the truth.

  • Eternal Evolution profile image

    Eternal Evolution 8 years ago from kentucky

    "a National ID health care card will be issued!" could this be the mark of the beast?? It's getting to the point where the gov. is going to run all lives. And we are allwoing it to happen by not standin up for our rights. If this bill does go through i'm as good as gone because i can't aford to pay for insurance. I'm barly making it now. We're all damned if you ask me.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Thanks, all, for your input and your affirmations. I'm glad I am not the only one who sees the problems.

    To ledefensetech: I still disagree with you. I am wondering how old you are?

    I remember striking out on my own in the early 70's - 1973 to be precise. You are wrong about saying that when we keep our factories in the US and buy American-made products, that the prices of goods and services would be so high we couldn't afford it.

    Hear this now. In 1973 I worked for the Minneapolis Grain Exchange as a statistical typist, an entry level position. I was only 16 or 17 but I told them I was 19 so I could get the job (no Social Security card, no background checks, no peeing in a cup, none of that, just a job) I received a monthly salary of $340. With that $340, I paid my $126 a month rent (2 BR furnished apt with utilities included!), bought groceries for 2 people, and still had enough left over to buy a new outfit each week, and money for going to a movie and out to eat each week for 2. I used to shop at a Piggly Wiggly store not far from my place, and $25 would buy me 2 WHOLE SHOPPING CARTS full of NON-GENERIC groceries. Way more than enough for 2 people for 2 weeks!! (We did not have generic groceries back then and no second-hand stores to speak of!)

    When I first got to Minneapolis back then, I was totally broke, had no place to stay and no clothes to wear to work at an office job. The state of Minnesota gave me 2 weeks at a hotel, food vouchers to eat at a modest restaurant, and $35 to buy shoes and a couple of outfits to wear to work. There were plenty of jobs - I found the one at the Grain Exchange right away and went right to work. The help from Minnesota was just enough for me to get on my feet and get going - I never needed any more help after that.

    So I think you are wrong. Keeping our jobs in the US does NOT make things worse for Americans. It used to be you could always find a factory job if you couldn't find anything else. Not anymore. The factories are all gone. It used to be that factory workers were proud of their jobs and of their products. Not anymore. The factories supplied our own market, plus exported to other countries, and provided jobs for everyone. The manufacturers were forced to be competitive and this kept prices down. They were forced to also provide competitive wages and benefits. Because the workers could and did always go somewhere else to work if they were not.

    The unemployment and welfare rolls were kept down to a minimum because there were JOBS! Americans DO want to work and make their own way. Let's give them some jobs so they can! On top of the fact that there are no jobs left, the government has made it so difficult for people to get a job with all those stupid rules and regulations! All kinds of paper work, CREDIT CHECKS! (WTF!!!???), background checks, pee in a cup, next we will have to poop in a cup too, so they can see if we ate the right things!) If a person, ANY person wants a job, they should be able to get one!!!! I don't care if they have a background, or if they smoke pot when they get home from work, do you? Everyone who wants a job should be able to get one. Who cares if a factory worker smokes pot?

    As far as health care for everyone, and a hand up to any American who needs help getting on their feet, we should most certainly be doing this. The very ones who are being shut out, are the very ones we should be helping! By enabling the poor to help themselves, we help all of us, and reduce the crime rate, too!

    Yes, there must be health care for all - for those who can not afford it, there must be a back up way for them to get it. I, especially, need this, or I will die if I don't get it.

    What I do not agree with, is that the government should dictate what kind of treatment doctors can give, that the Attorney General and the government should have access to our private, medical, and financial records, that the military should be part of our public health care delivery system, nor that the states should be over-burdened with the exorbitant expenses involved in forming new agencies and regulatory offices, new digital record-keeping and identification systems, etc. When all that should be necessary is to provide some controls to existing health insurance companies, and to establish a net to catch the people who are falling through the cracks by expanding our existing state Medicaid programs and giving those people health care that way.

    HR 676 would do this. Why can't people see this? READ THAT BILL!

    But Obama's health care bill is wrong.

    God, why can't I be President???

  • katnan profile image

    katnan 8 years ago from Mississippi

    Two Years ago I wrote my congressman and told him that there was a conspiracy to rid the US of poor people.Looks like I was right.Has anyone seen the headline"Obama Wants to Kill Your Grandma"?

    There is one thing for certain,however,and that is that the poor will be with us always.With the economy the way it is,there are going to be more poor than ever before.

  • gandalfthegrey profile image

    gandalfthegrey 8 years ago

    It will take a little longer thanks to The Republican Party and their Corporate Health Care lobbyists. Part of the package will be passed this Fall, the "Public Option" will be placed into Law during next year or the following year. These negotiations with The Republicans are not easy, it will take time. President Obama has made Health Care a number one will be passed.

  • profile image

    CRASH 8 years ago


    So I see your in the healthcare field. I hate it that your in poor health. I don't pretend to understand what your going through. However I don't understand how a person of your education has gotten into this position. Your a RN. So at some point you were working? You had health insurance. You were contributing to Social Security. Something is not adding up. Facts: Your entitled to SSI. Your entitled to SSI regardless of weather or not you paid inot Social Security. Are you getting it? If not, why? Medicaid? Where is your family in all this? You need a better support system. Writing your congressman is NOT going to help you today!

  • profile image

    chelseagirl 8 years ago

    We don't have the best healthcare in America anyway! Our doctors are only trained to do their work by writing prescriptions for high-priced drugs and operate rather than change a persons day to day habits to improve health.

    Many people have taken their health into their own hands by following healthy diets such as the Paleofood Diet and the Phase one diet. Both diets are far more effective than the ones suggested by most medical professionals. If the American people would adapt healthier habits take herbal formulas instead of medicine, most of them would avoid serious dissease. I know we need hospitals for accident victems, but we should not depend on doctors and insurance to the point that we believe they are our only hope because they are not!

    And yes, I don't want anyone telling me how to take care of me. I would fight to defend my right to medicate myself.

  • profile image

    CRASH 8 years ago


    The greatest point your making here I believe is an unintentional one. No matter what side of the health care debate your on, this current version is NOT the answer. WHY? FIRST: It was not written by our elected officials! Worse, they have no idea whats in it. Neither do you, neither do I, its impossible. The thing is filled with double talk and confusing rhetoric.

    Second: Our elected officials refuse to obligate themselves personally to this plan.

    Third: NOT one government entitlement plan currently in existense is both effective and solvent. FIND ONE, I CHANLENGE YOU.

    As far as your RANT about the ER's across America. You apparently are simply ignoring the truth. Here is how it works. Ask any ACORN worker and they will gladly explain the scam to you:

    You have high blood pressure. You do not have medical insurance. Your prescription has ran out and you don't have the money for a refil(or you believe its a CIVIL RIGHT, so your just not willing to pay for it) In any case you simply show up to the emergency room. Complain of severe headaches and chest pain. This gets you checked out fast by the way. Now once the doctor is in to see you a diagnosis of High Blood Pressure will obviously be made. You simply tell the doctor that you know that, but you have no money for the medication. Here is what will happen. They will give you a pamphlet explaining how to get them for free. They will normally give you some samples as well. If the doctor in the ER doesn't have any samples they will send you to a doctor that does. Its really simple.

    Why is the health insurance industry so screwed up you ask? Because the government has already gotten WAY TOO INVOLVED! Accross the US states have created 1500 or so mandates. What these mandates do is force insurance companies to cover this or cover that..etc. what happens everyone's premiums go up. So because someone goes on a rant to their state official a new mandate is created. If America wants healthcare cost to go down, simply STOP purchacing health care insurance. Write your legislature and insist that the mandates be obolished. No matter how far to the left we lean in America, CAPITALISM will allways be our economic system. DEAL with it. Stop trying to ignore its laws. TOO MUCH DEMAND INCREASES PRICES. ITS REALLY SIMPLE. You can not divorce yourself from the cost of HEALTHCARE by calling it a CIVIL RIGHT. Now for the sickly, they have no choice, the healthy do. If you can't manage your money any better than the government your going to go broke! No amount of government intervention will be able to save you.


  • free4india profile image

    free4india 8 years ago

    Sorry to interrupt your heated discussion on Health care...

    But if someone is really believing common man of US is belonging to a Rich country and hence is rich... and can afford many things including insurance... Though I do not belong to US, I can see the ordinary man's life in US is gonna get worse... he is going to get poorer...

    Forget about buying insurance... he is not gonna get enough money to buy food ... If you have not already felt that pain in your ....

    Read this and you will know why...

  • profile image

    ABM Consultants 8 years ago

    I totally agree with you MagicStarER. In the history of our country I have never heard a President compare humans with objects such as cars & motorcycles. I never thought that we would see this day in our great country where the government will tell you or I should say force you to do things. If we let this happen then I guarantee you there would be more things coming up next such as, (1) how many kids you can have, (2) what kind of entertainment you can have, (3) how much food you can buy in a month, (4) how much gas you can use in a month and if you go over the limits set by the government, then you will be forced to pay a fine. Think about it, do you really want to live in that kind of environment.? I think you are absolutely right about everything you have said and obama can not be trusted. I just hope that people like Jackwms would stop drinking the obama cool aid and start using their brain. MagicStarER you just keep on going telling the truth to the American public.

  • Aya Katz profile image

    Aya Katz 8 years ago from The Ozarks

    MagicStarEr, nobody should be forced to buy any kind of insurance ever. Not health insurance. Not car insurance. Not disability insurance and not social security.

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    There is one problem with closing the borders and limiting us to "Buy American" and that is this. Your plan would make it much more expensive for people to live. Trade is the only way to better our standard of living. In many ways the economic climate of the 1950's was a fluke. We were the only industrial nation to make it through World War II more or less intact. We took ruthless advantage of that. We also sowed the seeds of our own destruction.

    If you really want to find the culprit for our jobs moving overseas, you might want to look at unions. By adhering to a me, me, me basis for negotiation, they basically priced the American worker out of the labor market. Have you ever asked yourself why foreign workers accept those "sweatshop" jobs? It might possibly be that those jobs are infinitely better than what they would otherwise be doing.

    The reason I say restrict the vote is that you can trace the growth of the welfare state to the increase in the voters. That is the deadly thing about a democracy. Once you get enough of an underclass, they'll steal from the rich and soon enough your economy no longer produces. See my above example of unions.

    The best way to support the poor is to let ordinary citizens deal with it. I believe Americans to be unique in the world because we help. We help even people that hate us like Iran when they get hit in an earthquake. All of that is done by private individuals on their own initiative.

    Personally I've worked for the government before and loathed most of it. Rather than encourage initiative and reward you for doing things in a better way, the state adheres to a particular dogma and if you go against their PC, you're castigated. Out of curiosity, have you talked much with people on state aid?

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    to ledefensetech: I don't think restricting the vote only to property owners is the answer. Laws that are passed affect all, not just property owners.

    I think a better answer would be to restrict the inflow of illegal immigrants who take away American jobs, and even more importantly, for our Government to refuse to allow American corporations/manufacturers to outsource their factories and offices overseas. This way they are avoiding having to adhere to stricter American quality control standards, and are lowering their overhead by using cheap or "sweat shop" labor. Then they ship the junk back to us here so we can buy it. They are taking away America's life-blood, our jobs, all the blue-collar source of sustenance, and we are all suffering with the low-quality and dangerousness of "Made in China" crap. Look at all the trouble we've had with Chinese-made products: lead in the paint on kids' toys, melamine in our dog and cat food, melamine in infant formula, shoddy and dangerous workmanship in car parts, electronics, and virtually EVERY product made in China. Meanwhile, our factories and blue-collar and service-related jobs have disappeared in the US, and we have a 16.8% (actually much higher than that) unemployment rate and a depression going on here in the US. Where are all the jobs? Hey, in China they have jobs! American factories and corporations should be prohibited from doing this. And we should be INSISTING on buying ONLY products that are MADE IN THE USA!!! But it's so easy to shop at Wal-Mart, isn't it? And so cheap? (NOT cheap in the long run!)

    I think the best way to avoid having to support a lower class is to empower that lower class with jobs and good health, so they can take care of themselves and don't HAVE to ask for a hand-out. Spending on job creation, small business incentives, and preventive health care for all will be cheapest in the long run.

  • James A Watkins profile image

    James A Watkins 8 years ago from Chicago

    May I ask what state you are in? I will try to find some resources for you. I know people in the medical community who would be interested in hearing this story. One doctor friend, a surgeon, travels to Central & South America working for free 2 months out of each year. I am absolutely certain he would help a fellow American in your position.

    I am awfully sorry you are having this serious of a problem. And I feel for your friend, too. Tragic.

    Here in Florida, I have a sister, 45, with stage III Melanoma, no insurance, no government cards, no money. She's had two cancer surgeries and is now getting a year of chemo (11 months of it Interferon) and she got all this without one cent. Now don't get me wrong, they are BILLING her for it and she won't be able to pay and it will ruin her credit. So what? She's getting $250,000 worth of free medical care. In your state they would just say, "You've got cancer but you don't have any money so go home and die." ? All I can say about that is: what kind of state are you living in?

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    It's because we don't force them to adhere to a strict construction of the Constitution. People hate Glenn Beck, but he showed ACORN in action with their attempt to buy votes by organizing communities into voting blocks.

    I really rather think the only way to fix things is to restrict the vote to those with property. Of course then you have to build in protections so that people who don't have property are able to acquire it.

    Until we have those protection explicitly written in the Constitution, we'll have the have-nots voting in people who will take from the haves and give to them. That's why your petitions don't matter. You don't take into account that there are more people dependent on the government today than there are who are supporting the system but not drawing on it.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    to ledefensetech: "looking at the wrong place for solutions if you're looking to the President and Congress to fix things"

    This is the problem. They have been doing whatever they felt like doing for many years, because WE have let them get away with it. But America is not ALL dumbed-down with American Idol and crack!

    WE must inform ourselves of the bills in Congress and learn what our own Congressmen and Senators are doing and how they are voting. We must organize ourselves and let them know what we demand they do. You can't just sit there and say: "Well, they sure are screwing up" We have to get involved and let them know we are not going to put up with it. Put pressure on them.

    I receive 20+ replies from Congressmen and Senator weekly in receipt of petitions I sign and letters I write to them. Most are form letters thanking me for my opinion, then telling me just how they are going to go about doing exactly the opposite of what I told them I think they should do. I know they are sick of me. Nevertheless, that won't make me quit. Somebody has to do it. And as long as I am able, I will speak up. That is all I can do, but if everyone else did it, too, we would be a force to scare the shoes off them.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    to someonewhoknows: you are very correct - veterinarians will be conscripted for sure that I know of, into the hierarchy of emergency health care delivery. As far as whether for "public health care" as described in HR 3200 (Obama's bill) I think I did see that they would be expected to form part of that system also. (I will have to go back and read that section again to verify this, though)

    I think you may be right - I am pretty sure this "Public Health Care Option" is not the same health care that members of Congress are using.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To my dear JackWms:

    I admire you for your optimism and your ability to not lose hope. When I get done "ranting", I hope I will remember this and not lose my own. :)

    I tend to get really agitated about this subject, as I have gone through so much because of it. I hope that you are right, and that this Administration is doing the right things for the right reasons. After the last administration, you may forgive me if I scrutinize everything our government does with a magnifying glass and do not trust any of them.

    But don't you think, Jack, that we should be concerned about letting the Government making the decisions as to who receives what treatment, and the invasion of privacy regarding our private and financial records? We must be careful, that in obtaining a benefit, we do not give up our freedoms in exchange.

    I am proud of the US Constitution, what it stands for, and for the sacrifices that were made by those by whom it was written. We must never forget that WE are responsible for what those who come after us will have to live with.

    I am sorry for "ranting", Jack, but I really do not want to die just yet because of a lack of medical care. I have to keep hollering until somebody listens to me - I don't like the alternative.

  • ledefensetech profile image

    ledefensetech 8 years ago from Cape Girardeau, MO

    You're looking at the wrong place for solutions if you're looking to the President and Congress to fix things. The only thing that will make healthcare more affordable is to remove barriers to entry in the healthcare field.

  • someonewhoknows profile image

    someonewhoknows 8 years ago from south and west of canada,north of ohio

    Well from What I read here animal doctors will be treating humans if the healthcare bill gets passed as is.

    By the way,did you here our servents in congress won't have to use this healthcare system ,if that's what can call it.I wonder how their extended family members think about this? Is it my imagination or are those in congress who are supposed to serve us having second thoughts about passing this bill for good reason? If so,it must not have been written by any of them.I would like to know who wrote it!I hear michigan congressmen Dingel wrote it.if so why isn't he being asked any questions by the press?

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Boy I get long-winded when I get on this subject - it really is a flaming hot sore spot with me! I am sorry.

    Continuing on:

    As far as: Do I know anyone who has died because of lack of medical care, I most certainly DO. The first one of many that comes to my mind right now is the husband of a good friend of mine who died 2 weeks ago, because he could not find a doctor who would take him when he became ill - he had cancer which was not diagnosed until WAY too late because he had no insurance and could not receive medical care - when it was finally diagnosed, it was too late. Besides which, he could not afford to pay for the chemo and radiation treatments. His wife buried him 2 weeks ago.

    Like him, there are tens of thousands of Americans who die each year because they have severe medical conditions which go undiagnosed and untreated because they can not get medical care - because they have no insurance and no money!

    My friend here where I live has end-stage liver disease and is dying. He was forced to go without any medical care whatsoever for over a year because he could not afford to buy health care insurance and could not afford to pay the doctor nor pay for medications. So he was forced to do without. He is an amputee, and has been unable to work for about 11 years. Fortunately, I know about herbal remedies for his liver, and this has saved his life. Also, I was able to get him an SSI check and a Medicaid card. So he did not lose his home like I did, and was saved in the nick of time from ending up homeless.

    I was able to go with him to his first doctor appointment in about a year and a half yesterday, thank God, and he had blood drawn for a liver panel, so we will know the progression of his liver disease in a few days, after NOT knowing for the last year and a half. He got lucky. I am NOT so lucky. (Remember, he does have a terminal illness - and this went without any treatment for a year and a half - he also has psychiatric diagnoses and went without his psychiatric medications for over a year and a half, also, which caused him to become so out of control that we could no longer handle him and thought we'd have to have him escorted to our state mental hospital for a permanent stay there! - thankfully, he is now taking his medications again and now calm as a kitten, praise the LORD!!!!!)

    If something does not happen soon, I will be joining my friend's husband. My condition has deteriorated rapidly over the past year to the point where I am unable to do almost anything at all - I have certain symptoms of throat cancer (among other things...) which I am unable to get diagnostics nor treatment for. I am getting sicker and weaker and more pissed off by the day.

    Don't accuse me of being a whiner. I am not. Don't accuse me of "imagining" symptoms, nor of being a malingerer. I am not. I am an RN. I KNOW what symptoms mean, and their implications. I KNOW what diagnostic testing should be getting and I am not able to get it.

    Besides which, by going without my medications, my lungs are daily becoming more damaged and my condition is spiralling downhill very rapidly. If I were able to receive my medications (which cost almost $1,000 a month!!!!) it could prevent this deterioration and damage to my lungs which is going to kill me very soon.

    Not whining. Just the stark reality.

    If I don't get medical treatment, I will be dead within 2 years. I am 53.

    Oh yes. I forgot. It's nothing personal, though, is it?

    Now, the way I look at it, you can continue to wear those blindfolds, and pretend you don't see what's happening to your brothers and sisters around you.

    Or you can open your eyes and act like you might be a human being and grow some compassion. Nothing personal.

    I hope it doesn't happen to you. Nor anyone else. I would not wish this on anyone! Not even a dog.

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    To JamesWatkins: (Sorry JackWms, I do feel another "rant" coming on)

    First of all, this is NOT about politics, as I did state above. This is about people (REAL people) who are suffering and trying to LIVE, who are going without health care and medications, who ARE going without these things, and who WILL die if they don't get it.

    And secondly, about learning the truth and questioning the actions and mechanisms of the bill itself and those who crafted it.

    I will give you at least some credit here for questioning the motives behind some of the articles of this bill - which is exactly what I am doing myself in hooting & hollering (and ranting, LOL) about the govt deciding what health care we should receive and having access to our financial and private records. I am with you here. And it is a healthy thing to question these things. But it is not political, it is intelligent investigation and responsible behavior.

    (Sorry, JackWms, NOT a rant! ;)

    I am going to try to control myself in the next paragraphs and remind myself that, as you say: this is not personal. OK? Really, I am not mean, and I am not a smart ass. (But I really do NOT want to die yet, ok?)

    Your first statement: " I live six blocks from Florida Hospital and personally know two doctors there. I have discussed this with them. They treat every single patient who comes there for care"

    Obviously this is a very narrow view of the whole picture of what is going on in America overall. (as the view of those 2 doctors is necessarily narrow, also!)

    1) You are talking about a hospital. Certainly, at most hospitals in the US, when people show up with an emergency they will be treated with whatever minimal care is necessary. But it is not free. My last ER visit cost me around $1800. (which I will never be able to pay!) And I could not even get prescriptions for my daily medications.

    2) When you go to the ER, you are ONLY being treated for whatever brought you to the emergency room. Whether it be a sprained ankle, broken bone, sudden illness, whatever it may be. You will NOT receive any medical care nor diagnostics for your ongoing medical conditions. EG: if you go in for a sprained ankle, your ER doctor will NOT treat your high blood pressure, nor your blocked arteries that also need attention, but only your emergency condition. The emergency room will NOT take care of your whole medical picture, nor will they prescribe your regular medications for you. Only whatever is necessary for your emergency visit - they will tell you to go to your "regular physician" for all else.

    3) When you look for a "regular physician", however, the situation changes drastically. There is virtually NO doctor who will accept you as a patient if you have no insurance and no money to pay them. If they DO take you on as a charity case, they will NOT order any diagnostic testing because you can not afford it. (Forget that CT Scan or that MRI!!) If they prescribe any medications, you probably can not afford it, if you are indigent. So you are NOT receiving real medical care, but only a bare bones "as little as possible" dispensation of whatever it takes for them to shove you out the door. My last visit to my "charity" doctor consisted of a bunch of abuse, a doctor who would not listen when I tried to say what was wrong, and who then sent me a bill for $164. (which I will never be able to pay!)

    (By now I have over $136,000 in Emergency Room visits and hospital stays, and $2,800 in "charity" doctor bills that I will never be able to pay.)

    So, just because doctors will treat indigent people for their emergencies in the ER does NOT mean they are getting real medical care. And it certainly is NOT FREE!!!! My credit is ruined forever because of those hospital and doctor bills!

    In my own case, I have several medical conditions that are becoming increasingly worse and with more complications - I now have NO doctor whatsoever, and no way to get ANY medical treatment nor ANY of my medications whatsoever. The previous Dr. will no longer treat me because I can not pay him. No other doctor will accept me because of no insurance and no money. I have no money whatsoever, because I am too sick to work and have been for over 3 years now. I am still waiting for Social Security Disability. I filed my claim for the SECOND time around a year ago. I have had to hire a lawyer and filed my appeal a couple of weeks ago. It will be approximately 11-12 months before it will go before a Social Security Administration judge. (if I am lucky!) So I will continue in this situation with no income, no medical care, and no medications throughout the rest of this process.

    You are obviously nefariously out of touch with the reality that these now more than 51 million Americans, (yes those statistics ARE true, and that is a very conservative estimate!) are living daily. Hardly anyone makes $75,000 a year. (I am an RN and the most I ever brought home myself was under $50,000! How many Americans have college educations??? Most are blue-collar workers!!!!) $75,000 is ridiculously out of touch for most Americans. MOST Americans are living on less than $20,000 a year and supporting some kids on that, too!

    I would go look up the statistics on how many Americans are currently living below the poverty level, but I'm too busy right now "ranting". (If I find this figure, I will add it here later...)

    Of these people living under the poverty level, many are seniors receiving social security, and many more are families or single parents raising minor children. Some more are certified as disabled, most living on SSI at $674 a month. These people are all receiving either Medicare or Medicaid.

    However, there is a VERY large section of the American population who is living under the poverty level, who may be either working at minimum wages, or unable to work, who have no insurance, either because most companies do NOT offer it, who can not afford it, who are unemployed and not able to find jobs due to the current economic collapse, or who like myself, are simply too ill to work, waiting for a Disability determination which can take YEARS (my last go-round with the SSA took more than 2 1/2 years, and I expect this bout to take a little longer than that)

    Maybe some other states have different guidelines for being accepted into Medicaid. Maybe in some other states, there are free clinics where those with no money nor insurance can go. In my state, however, you must be either over the age of 65, blind, certified as disabled, or have minor children to qualify for Medicaid. And there are NO free clinics here.

    Unfortunately, many single adults who are not blind, not over the age of 65 and have no minor children, who are living below the poverty level, and who have not yet been certified as disabled, have fallen through the cracks. THIS is probably the largest segment of the population. This is the majority of America's work force that is living below the poverty level and can not get health care.

    If you do not fit into the above guidelines, you get NOTHING!!! There is NO HELP FOR YOU whatsoever!!!! Nothing but food stamps. This does not pay the rent nor the water bill. It does NOT pay for a doctor, and it does NOT buy your medicine.

    What it does do, is leave you homeless, sick, and screwed!!!

    Like I said, you are hopelessly out of touch.

    Just get sick once and lose your job, and get in a situation where you either can not work, or you can not find another job, and see what happens to you!!!

    See, you really do not understand - I am an RN who used to make $35-45 an hour and worked 2 shifts per day at least 3-4 days a week. But I got sick and am not able to work. About 38-39% of my earnings went to the IRS. I have PAID MY DUES.

    If this can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. I made good money, had everything, had money in the bank, not a worry on the horizon.

    As far as: Do I know anyone who has died because of lack of medical care, I most certainly DO. The first one of many that comes to my mind right now is the husband of a

  • James A Watkins profile image

    James A Watkins 8 years ago from Chicago

    I don't want to be "contentious." And I feel for you in your personal situation. And the country is in a depression, to be sure. That figure of 49 million—I'm sure you believe it. But it is not true. There aren't any people in America who cannot get health care. I live six blocks from Florida Hospital and personally know two doctors there. I have discussed this with them. They treat every single patient who comes there for care. All you have to do is show up.

    Of the 49 million you quote—who don't have insurance but can certainly get medical care—15 million of them make $75,000 a year or more but choose to spend their money on something else besides health insurance. They can afford it; they don't want it. 15 million of them are illegal aliens. 9 million of them haven't had health insurance at some point in the last year—that is the question that was asked that resulted in the 49 million figure. So they may have been without insurance for a month and the answer would have been yes.

    There are 10 million people chronically without health insurance. There is no record of a single person dying in America because they don't have health insurance. Not one. If you know one, tell me who they were. How is Health Insurance a Civil Right? Who says so? Our "rights" are delineated in the Constitution and I can't find any mention of health insurance in there.

    Don't misunderstand: I am not talking about you as a person. I can hear distress in your words. But this Hub is about politics, right? So we are discussing national policy. Scaring people with phony numbers is the oldest trick in the book used by Marxists to overthrow a political system. I'm not saying you are making them up. I have seen this number quoted in the media, too. But a bit of research will reveal where this number comes from and how it is being used to take over 17% of our national economy—not for you and me. They don't care about us. They care about power.

  • Jackwms profile image

    Jackwms 8 years ago

    MagicStarER, I am 73 years old. I was born in a depression (created by a Republican administration) and it looked increasingly like I would probably die in one (again created by a Republican administration). I have become more optimistic with each passing day, in this new administration, as I see the stock market recover, the new claims for unemployment decrease, and more people buying homes. We have a long way to go, but I think we need to give Obama some slack as he goes all out to bring our economy back from the brink oif total collapse.

    The health care plan he proposed may not be perfect, but he is getting no help from the right. If you feel as you do, then you should be writing and/or calling your Congress person to express your thoughts.

    This president is the greatest hope for America at this time. He is not 100% right all the time and he is not infallable. He needs our help and support. I do hope you will rethink some of your comments, which were indead a "rant".

  • Mighty Mom profile image

    Susan Reid 8 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

    I hope that the final bill -- and I do hope there IS a final bill, because unaffordability is NOT the only reason Americans remain uninsured. Some of us would be glad to pay too much for coverage -- but are denied because of preexisting conditions.

    Your concerns are valid. The final bill will need to address these issue.

    P.S. In reading this I have to admit to starting out with the "assumption" that you were ranting without any basis and that you are a right winger. Just goes to show we are guilty until proven innocent. I apologize for jumping to conclusions about you!


  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    Oh, and I forgot: the bill orders many changes at the state level, including overloading the state Medicaid delivery systems many times over their current load, new digital record-keeping and ID systems, new agencies, new regulatory departments, and on and on. Without specifying how they are going to pay for all this. Will the states pay for it all? Or will the Federal government pay for it? And what will happen when the state Medicaid offices are overloaded and can't handle the extra burden? Is there a provision to finance the expansion and extra staffing? No! There is not? Most states are already operating in the red. Who will pay for all of this?

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    I knew there would be contention and disagreement when I wrote this. :) That's ok, though.

    Lest you, Jackwms, confuse me with a Limburger/Beck watcher, let me assure you I can't stand either one of them. And I am not a Republican, I am a liberal Democrat (or at least I thought I was one until I started seeing that the Democrats are all on the corporate bandwagon just the same as the Republicans are, and there is really no difference at all between the parties.)

    So I want you to know that my dissatisfaction with this health care bill has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. But everything to do with several major flaws in the bill itself.

    As enumerated above, there are some big problems with this bill:

    such as this one that really galls me:

    Sec. 401.59B, Pg. 167, Lines 18-23 - ANY individual who does not have acceptable care, according to government, will be taxed 2.5% of income. (or, if the Baucus bill is passed as Obama wishes, you will be FINED for not having a health care plan!!!, up to $3,800 per year per family of four!!!)

    Also, I am vehemently against any system where:

    1) The government decides what treatments will be given

    2) Your medical records are accessed freely by the government and the Attorney General

    3) Your financial and all other personal records are freely accessed by medical providers, the US government, the attorney general, and many other people in the new "hierarchy" of government health care delivery

    I have no objections to the government placing limits and regulations on existing health care insurance providers.

    And there is one MAJOR flaw that I can see as regarding the qualifying of people for Medicaid under this bill. And this is that each state has different rules for qualifying for Medicaid. How will they resolve this so that all Americans are treated equally?

    I agree that this bill comes a long way in addressing some big problems. But not only is it not backed up with clear-cut funding sources, but there is too much government regulation and prying into people's private financial records.

    And WHY do we need the military staffing new public health care centers????? What's wrong with using our own existing medical professionals? Why do military need to be at our health care centers? To shoot us if we refuse to be vaccinated, or haul us off to jail if we refuse to follow our diets or quit smoking? What the hell is going on here?

    Like I said, READ THE BILL!!!! (Including the fine print! AND THINK!! JUST THINK!!!) Quit believing everything you hear and use your head!

    You can be mad if you want. I don't want the government telling me what medical treatment I should get. Nor telling my doctor what treatment he is allowed to give me. Do you?

  • eovery profile image

    eovery 8 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa


    Come on now, quit using that liberal catch all. The republicans have offered a lot, and they are not even listened to. Senator Latham from Iowa put a plan together and presented it, and the dems would not even start to listen. So have other Republicans.

    You are so wrong here

    Keep on hubbing!

  • Jackwms profile image

    Jackwms 8 years ago

    I read your "rant" with all the name calling and emotionally charged rhetoric. I think you have been listening to Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.

    The Health Care bill is a work in progress. It is not a done deal. The president has been asking for input from all sides, including the most conservative republicans. This group is the party of "no" and will not accept any change from the status quo.

  • eovery profile image

    eovery 8 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa

    And everyone trusted Obama? Welcome to our world, we knew from day one he could not be trusted. And this goes for the other clowns, Pelosi and Reid.

    Keep on hubbing!

  • MagicStarER profile image

    MagicStarER 8 years ago from Western Kentucky

    to both casi and Jackwms: Have you actually read the bill? The Bill is HR 3200. YOU are the ones who have misunderstood. Before you go blindly worshiping Obama and sticking up for him, please educate yourselves by reading the bill. (I am a Democrat, too, you know! And I would be the first to stick up for him, if it was warranted. But it is not.)

    During his speech, Obama made this statement:

    All Americans would be required by law to have health insurance under his proposal, Obama said. He noted the requirement would be similar to mandatory auto insurance in most states and also would mandate businesses to either offer health care coverage to workers or contribute to covering their costs of obtaining coverage.

    Here are some things about the Obama health care bill that you may not know:

    Sec. 163, Pg. 58-59 beginning at line 5 - Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances & a National ID health care card will be issued!

    • Sec. 163, Pg. 59, Lines 21-24 - Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

    • Sec. 205, Pg. 102, Lines 12-18 - Medicaid-eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No freedom to choose. (NOTE: there is no provision here to include anyone but those who are presently considered "medicaid-eligible", which means that those not presently eligible for medicaid will still be left in the cold!)

    Sec. 401.59B, Pg. 167, Lines 18-23 - ANY individual who does not have acceptable care, according to government, will be taxed 2.5% of income. (or, if the Baucus bill is passed as Obama wishes, you will be FINED for not having a health care plan!!!, up to $3,800 per year per family of four!!!)

    Sec. 431, Pg. 195, Lines 1-3 - Officers and employees of HC Administration (government) will have access to ALL Americans’ financial and personal records.

    Sec. 1121, Pg. 239, Lines 14-24 - The government will limit and reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income and poor are the ones affected.

    Sec. 1233, Pg. 430, Lines 11-15 - The government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life, according to preset methods (not individually decided).

    Sec. 1401, Pg. 503, Lines 13-19 - The government will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic medical records. “The Center may secure directly from any department or agency of the United States information necessary to enable it to carry out this section.”

    • Sec. 1401, Pg. 503, Lines 21-25 - The government may secure data directly from any department or agency of the US, including your data.

    • Sec. 1401, Pg. 503, Lines 21-25 - The “Center” will collect data both “published and unpublished” (that means public & your private information).

    Sec. 1651, Pg. 734, Lines 16-25 - Proposes, for law enforcement sake, that the Secretary of HHS will give Attorney General access to ALL medical data.

    Sec. 1711, Pg. 764 - The government will require preventative services - including vaccinations (no choice).

    Sec. 340L, Pg. 897 - The government will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps to ensure an adequate supply of public health professionals.

    • Sec. 340L, Pg. 897 - The Public Health Workforce Corps shall consist of civilian employees of the United States as Secretary deems necessary.

    • Sec. 340L, Pg. 897 - The Public Health Workforce Corps shall consist of officers of Regular and Reserve Corps of Service.

    • Sec. 340M, Pg. 899 - The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians. Will animals have heath care too?

    • Sec. 2233, Pg. 909 - The government will develop, build and run Public Health Training Centers.

    And oh, btw, Joe Wilson was right. Obama lied. Look at this:

    • Sec. 152, Pg. 50-51 - HC will be provided to ALL NON-US citizens.

    And there is much more. You are basing all your opinions on his speech. I am not mis-informed. But until you read the bill, YOU ARE MISINFORMED!

    READ THE BILL!!!!!!!

    I repeat: I am not misinformed. I would not write this article if I did not know what I was talking about. I READ THE BILL!!! There's a whole lot more wrong with the bill that is not listed above, too. Look for yourself.

    You can read it yourself here: (Be prepared, it's over a thousand pages long!)

  • Jackwms profile image

    Jackwms 8 years ago

    MagicStarER, I started reading your hubs because of the following by you-causes that I believe in:

    I am also an activist for other changes for good, including: animal rights in general, world peace, ending genocide, human & civil rights, protection of wildlife and endangered species, universal health care, ending poverty, alternative energy, protecting children, preservation of heirloom seeds, herbal medicine, wildcrafting, permaculture, and sustainable and organic farming.

    But, you are way off base on your rant about Obama's speech to Congress.Rather than go into a lot of my own detail, I'll just say that I agree completely with Casi's comment above. Obama made a great, and much needed speech. There is still room for some "tweeking" here and there as we work toward the final plan.

  • shamelabboush profile image

    shamelabboush 8 years ago

    Is that true? I was listening to his speech earlier but didn't catch all of it! Maybe he meant something else by that fine! He cannot fine people and treat them like cars!!!!!