Obama Care--A Trojan Horse

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   A.Villarasaposted 11 years ago

   The Trojan horse  that is Obama Care has slipped by the gates of American consciousness and has started to disgorge its abominbale contents   into the grind that is our daily medical lives. Can we survivie it without being lacerated into a thousand different pieces?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Probably not!
      
      Minus your typos in a couple of words,  I am totally loving your writing skill here!
      That sentence about the Trojan Horse is a literary gem, a work of art!   You rock, A. Villarasa! 

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         wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Here, we certainly agree, both on the OP and the Trojan Horse. 
         
         A beautiful turn of words, and it is highly doubtful that we will actually survive the experience without massive changes in the program.  Not, anyway, and remain the Land of the Free.

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         1. 61

            A.Villarasaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            @Wilderness:
            I certainly share your concerns about where this massive governmental infringement on our lives would lead us to... cutting back the run-away cost of medical care is not one of them.
            Time magazine, in a recent issue explored the innumerable reasons why medical care here in the United States is so much more expensive than the next  9 countries (in the list) combined. The author basically dumped  most if not all of the blame on the lap of hospitals and doctors. But I must tell you that having been involved in this field (since 1981 when I finished my Pediatric residency in one of the county hospitals in Los Angeles), the author was  barking up the wrong tree(s) when he suggested that hospitals and doctors get paid way too much for their services. It is true that hospital's and doctor's bills are grossly inflated , but it is the insurance companies (be they privately and or governmentally run) who dictates what ultimately the hospitals and doctors DO get paid for those services. And those payments are grossly deflated.

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   Brenda Durhamposted 11 years ago

   And ya know what?
   The lacerations are already being felt.
   It's costing people money.  When Obama said it wouldn't add to the National deficit,  I dunno if he lied or not;  but there is evidence that it's costing insurance companies and individuals some money.
   It's so bad that there's even a book out about how to know what the "Healthcare Bill" even says and means!    Of course, that could be a rip-off too.   Who knows?!

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Of course it's costing money.  After it was enacted people actually read it and began to understand that the costs and tax raises the first few years were being used to pay for the services in the next few.  What happens after that is left unsaid.
      
      I know - health care at my employer was an early victim.  When the price jumped 80% in one year we suddenly didn't have it any more.

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   2. 61

      A.Villarasaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @Brenda:
      One of those "lacerations" is Obama's raid on the Medicare program by shifting close to $700 billion from Medicare to fund Obamacare. Now that Medicare has less money to disburse to health care providers ( as it is medicare payments lag behind the payments made by private insurers) not a lot of doctors/hospitals   are opting to take care of more medicare patients. There would come a time when the number of patients enrolled in these government managed health care system, would far outstrip the number of doctors and hospitals who are willing to take care of them, thus the program becomes unsustainable.
      The counterintuitiveness and counterproductivity of government run health care programs is stunning to say the least.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yep.  That's what I've been hearing (that Obama took from Medicare to fund his Bill).   And that royally tees me off, because I know so many people, disabled and elderly, who depend on Medicare for a lot of their healthcare.    He's trying to borrow (no, steal) from Peter to pay Paul (er...his agenda).    Everything he does has a catch to it somehow or other, and he's messing in things he has no business messing in.

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3. 73

   peramore20posted 11 years ago

   I don't think that we can survive it. I have private insurance on my son and myself because his father's insurance through his employer costs more than my policy. Since Obamacare, my insurance has skyrocketed. I don't understand how this plan is helping the middleclass. Maybe I'm missing something.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The middle class has always paid for health care for the poor, every time they pay a bill that is inflated 100% or so to cover the cost of providing care for those that won't or can't pay for it.
      
      The only difference now is that you will pay it via taxes and higher insurance permiums; total countrywide costs will only go up as a result of tens of thousands more people seeing a doctor for a runny nose or a scratch on the arm rather than treating themselves.
      
      I pay my own health costs (no insurance).  Last year they topped $12,000, of which at least half is probably due to making up the cost for those that don't pay.

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      1. 61

         A.Villarasaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         @Widerness:
         The medical bill "that is inflated 100%" does not  get  totally paid  by private and public insurers..... at most only 1/4 - 1/3 of that bill is paid. As an example, if a doctor sends a bill in the amount of  $350.00, the actual payment on that bill may only amount to  $50.00-$75.00
         It is true of course that hospitals do inflate their bill to some patients to adjust for services to another patient  that they don't get paid, but then again the insurance companies have the final say on how much they are going to pay the hospital.

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            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think I've ever seen a health care billing reduced by 75%.  Or even 50% for that matter.
            
            In addition, how much the insurance will pay is not necessarily how much the hospital will be paid; every time I've ever signed in to a hospital, doctor, dentist, etc. there is always a disclaimer that I'm responsible for the bill no matter what the insurance pays.

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4. 62

   Zelkiiroposted 11 years ago

   Whether it comes via Obamacare or some other means, our current healthcare system needs to die and it needs to die 50 years ago.
   
   The fact that we're still the only industrialized nation on Earth without universal healthcare is a goddamn travesty and an embarrassment.

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5. 82

   GlendaGoodWitchposted 11 years ago

   Those who have read Obamacare are disgusted and those who have not love it because they think they are getting free healthcare.

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6. 77

   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   I think I can survive having better access to healthcare.  If I try.

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      A.Villarasaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @Psycheskinner:
      
      If you think Obamacare could and would afford you better access to healthcare... think again. Try as you might, you would not get it.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Me, too, particularly as no insurance means healthcare for only severe reasons.
      
      The question is can the country survive a doubling (or more) of total countrywide health expenses?  I have serious doubts on that account.

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7. 61

   A.Villarasaposted 11 years ago

   @wilderness:
   I have seen bils paid reduced by 50-75%    because I deal with this issue day in and day out. Your insurance obviously is not a part of a larger HMO that contracts with physicians and hospitals on a capitation type of payment basis, i.e the HMO will only pay based on capitated rates that has been pre-determined by them. Of course co-payments (that range from $10.00 to $50.00) are apart of this arrangement.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I've seen that, too, for HMO's or other contractually arranged payment schedules.
      
      The hospital sends out a bill that they know violates their contract (who knows why, but they consistently do?); the insurance company corrects it to the proper amount.  I guess that's kind of a semantics matter; the bill was incorrect to start with, no different than sending a bill to the wrong person, and getting it corrected doesn't really indicate it has been "reduced".  Or so I think of it, anyway.
      
      The ultimate effect of that, seems to me, is that the insurance company is large enough to demand pricing in line with actual costs.  The means that smaller insurance companies, or individuals without insurance, will now have to pick up the cost of non-paying patients.

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8. 81

   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   The good thing is that the hospitals, and most importantly the doctors, will be adequately reimbursed and they won't be forced to donate their time and expertise to those who wander in to Emergency with No Insurance.
   Right?

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      R-i-i-i-g-h-t!
      
      Several hospitals in southern California have closed their doors and doctors are fleeing the area like rats from a sinking ship because they can't take in enough to cover their costs.  When Obamacare goes into full swing the experience of the liberals wanting their illegal aliens is going to be repeated all over the country as health care becomes difficult to impossible to get with or without insurance.  Just like the other countries with "free" healthcare.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         ---words to the wise would be... *don't loose the health care you have now.*
            We should have health insurance like we have car insurance. Sign up with whatever hospital you want... that hospital should offer the insurance... Like Kaiser does.
         Maybe.

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            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Pretty much.  Without insurance I don't see a doctor much, but if I DO need one I can find one.  And get treated, too.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               - anyone without insurance will be fined. Oh well.

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            A.Villarasaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            @Kathryn:
            If , as mandated by Obama care, people who can not find or afford to buy health insurance on their own are herded into the Medicaid program, they will  not be able to see doctors and other health care providers because there are not enough doctors and healthcare providers who are willing to see these medicaid patients. The re-imbursement rate for doctors/hospitals  from Medicaid is a pittance compared to private insurers, thus a lot of doctors have decided not to take in any medicaid patients.... and if thes patients don't get to see doctors in their private practice setting, most of them will go to the ER, further straining the capacity of these ER's to see patients... and further increasing cost because the ER is the least efficient and at the same time costliest way to get medical care.

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               wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Shhh!  You're not allowed to say that; it means that health care costs will skyrocket instead of going way down as predicted.  It may be true, and is, but you're still not allowed to say it.

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