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Barack Hussein Obama is Muslim!

Updated on July 8, 2015

I think as Americans we lean towards giving people the benefit of the doubt. When someone says that they are a Christian we want to believe them until proven otherwise, even if they have a Muslim name.


I was no different. I had no preconceived ideas about Barrack Hussein Obama and even hoped that he was who he said he was, after all he seemed like an intelligent and likable guy. However, now, with all of the evidence provided in the past year I have serious doubts.


First of all, he doesn't have to be a dyed in the wool, kneel 5 times towards the east, Muslim to be considered Muslim. According to the Muslim faith all he has to have is a father who is Muslim to be considered Muslim. Secondly, he kissed the ring of the Saudi King, this is a sign of obeisance in the Muslim world. We in America didn't pick it up because we are not familiar with such things in America. Thirdly, he and his cabinet have been pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli since they were voted in. I don't think we've ever had a President that treated the Israeli Prime Minister in such a shameful way as Obama. Prime Minister Netanyahu recently visited the White House and was given a list of demands to be carried out by Obama and then was snubbed by Obama when he got up and told Netanyahu “I am going to go and eat with my family”. Is this any way to treat the prime minister of Israel?


Morover, there are several You Tube videos that show Obama stating that he is in fact a Muslim and he says that the Koran is a holy book and he extols the religion of Islam. No Christian would ever say that. The Koran itself wages war against anyone who doesn't adhere to it, especially Jews and Christians as quoted below:


Sura 4:89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly in Allah's way; but if they turn back then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.


How could a Christian say that the Koran is a holy book when the Koran itself says that unbelievers ie Christians should be killed?


It worries me terribly that Obama will turn our nation against Israel because the Bible itself says in Genesis 12:


(Genesis 12:2) And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:


(Genesis 12:3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


Not only does the Bible admonish us to bless Israel but the nation itself is the only democracy in the region. If we withhold our support of Israel I'm afraid that we will come under the judgment of God and once that happens there will be no escape.

Recently, the issue of Obama's ring has come to the forefront. According to World Net Daily Obama wears a ring that is engraved with the words "There is no God but Allah", a Muslim statement of faith. This is damning evidence that Obama has deceived the public at large for the entire time he has been in office.

Finally, he has denied that Jesus is the only way to God, anyone who denies that, in my book, is NOT a Christian. The Islamic faith provides for deception when it comes to unbelievers so take that into consideration. When you consider the recent Muslim uprisings in the middle east, the cold shoulder Israel has been given by this administration and the obvious support of Muslim holidays one would have to be quite dense to believe that Obama is the Christian he claims to be. The Bible says to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, unfortunately we have been neither!

Do you support Israel as a nation?

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    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      Well, I know he's not a real Christian, but I'm not sure about what he believes.

    • pointblank009 profile image

      pointblank009 6 years ago from Buffalo

      Brie I thought he just bowed before the Saudi ruler, not "kiss his ring." You're confusing this with "The Godfather." Lots of people are sons or daughters of Muslims who aren't Muslims themselves in this country. I don't think Qaddafi or the bin Laden family suspect he's a Muslim, hmmm...

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      I don't think honesty and progression would encourage that...it's just that atheists are a small minority of the American population.

    • mtj profile image

      mtj 6 years ago

      I agree to that. What I really would like to see is the day we are honest and progressive enough to elect a person to a major office that admits they are an Atheist.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      All the presidents SAY they are Christian and none of them act like Christians...they just do that to get the Christian vote.

    • mtj profile image

      mtj 6 years ago

      I do. It's so obvious. A snippet here, a clip there. They were spliced together to present a distorted view of what was being said to promote a particular groups anti-Obama agenda. It's actually comical to watch. Watch the entire videos to see and hear what's really being said. However,I have heard The President say clearly and repeatedly that he is a Christian. That is an undisputable fact. Of course the real question is, so what if he's a Muslim?

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

      I don't see any evidence that those You Tube Videos are edited or distorted.

    • mtj profile image

      mtj 6 years ago

      I have neither seen or heard any evidence that President Obama is a Muslim. Those highly edited and distorted out of context YouTube videos offer no evidence. I believe he is who he said he is.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Is it good to let someone go to hell?

    • profile image

      A_Viewer 7 years ago

      I like religions and learning many good things from different religions around the world. I believe some parts of religions are what God wants to convey to us, and some other parts of religions are not. It is my firm belief that God wants people to be good to each other and practice what is good. This is why I would hope people where keep things that may hurt other people's feelings to themselves. Yes, it does feel good when you are expressing what you are believing in. Though, is it right to make other people feel bad and even cause wide spread harm when internet opens to the gate to millions of viewers? So, please do what God wants and be good. Thank you! And God bless every living soul!

    • profile image

      Mark 7 years ago

      Boy..What an exhaustive thread!

      I have studied all religions on great detail and I find it difficult to equate Islam with Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, or Confucianism.

      Of all of the texts from the above religions, I found the Old Testament and the Koran to be deeply offensive. I especially abhor the Koran. After reading the first three fourths of it, I had to put it down. I was offended to read all of the bad mouthing of Chrsitians and Jews in it. They have no shame in demonizing huge groups of other people of faith. They also have no shame in treating [other than Muslims] poorly. In fact, they are so arrogant that they impose a tax on [other than Muslims] just for tolerating them..as if they are some holy people and all others are scum.

      Let's step back just for a minute to consider the whole culture behind the middle eastern version of Islam. We all can plainly see, that theirs is a barbaric culture. Is that a slur? Is this a statement of fact? Is this against the liberal progressive doctrine of moral relativism? I don't care. We are to speak out against evil. Is this judging against Jesus' teachings? No it isn't. Judging the heart of "a person" is different from judging precise evil actions that are clear and incontravertible.

      Sure, in the Old Testament, people were stoned to death for breaking the Sabbath. Sometimes the Pharisees actually tried to kill those who just helped one of their animals out of a hole they fell into if they did it during the Sabbath. If people were caught committing adultery, they were also stoned to death. Other deeds deserving of the death penalty (stoning) were beastiality and homosexuality. These laws and punishments were there to root out the evil within any village as a little yeast works though the whole dough.

      With all of that said, doesn't one wonder what happened? What happened to the middle east? Nothing?!!?? Whay are they living as if they are in medieval times? I realize that long ago, we all acted like barbarians. This is a normal maturing of all civilizations. It amazes me, that we have this stunted medieval people here on this Earth right now! Did they get lost "in time"?

      When the rest of the world moved from a violent, intolerant, and brutal way of living to a more decent, understanding and tolerant way of life, what happened to the Muslims? They stayed back in "Medieval Times" and that is what makes them scary. They have so many religious zealots teaching their barbaric ways around the world. This would be bad enough if it were isolated in their world of cult, but they insist on spreading this atrocious, barbaric culture of disgusting deeds on civlilized people. They love to dress their women like demons. They love to kill for Allah. They love to cut the limbs from another in the name of Allah. remember, these people, in Muhammeds time, were the biggest war mongers in the history of man! That is in their genes right? Muhammed gave permission for Muslims to marry 4 women each??!! Know why?? Because these barbarian, war mongers had been fighting wars incessantly for hundreds of years....hence the 4 to 1 ratio of woment to men. Even though these barbarians were insanely violent and brutal to one another, they somehow maintained their policy of not killing women while warring with other tribes.

      Ok..sorry for going off on a few tangents, but the fast are clear. We have a huge group of people who believe that the Koran is the word of Allah. If they are Muslims, they cannot deny that Jihad is the duty of every Muslim. They cannot ignore their teachings not to make friends of Christians, or Jews. They cannot, as good Muslims, deny that they are the holders of the final and true religion. They cannot deny that Islam must be spread, by force if necessary to the entire world until the whole world bows to it. Most Muslims will not come out and say that all of this is true, but you will never hear any of them condemn he others who do have the courage to announce their convictions.

      The world is a scary place. Islam, in my opinion, is a cancer on this Earth. If any messages that were given to Muhammed by archangel Gabriel in Mecca have been preserved, they have been obfuscated by all of the evil and dark teachings that came from the clouded mind of an illiterate bunch of barbarians.....

      I will admit, that Islamists do have a point when they condemn us for unrighteous acts. In our liberal progressive world of non existant morality, we offend righteous people. We celebrate homosexuality and every other form of sexual deviancy to our own detriment. We are slack as our children are brought up to be selfish and arrogant brats. The Muslims hate us for the disgusting pornography and rightly so. Maybe if we practiced true decency and had respect for what is right and wrong..instead of basking in the misguided moral relativism, we wouldn't be so disgusting a culture to these backward barbarians!

      So, in conclusion, I whole heartedly agree with Brie in her assesment of Islam as a religion of evil and of darkness. Can I put 1.5 million people into that mold? Yes I can....

      Oh!! Oh!! About Obama and his religion. Anyone who believes that Obama is a Christian is deluded and has been duped by a crappy liar. Obama's "so called" Church is an abomination to Christ. Black Liberation Theology HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST!

      Yesterday, I had the chance to read up on their hero James Cone and what he taught. Come one people! This guy and his fo9llowers are the biggest racist, disgusting anti- spiritual gang the planet has ever known! They only talk about getting even with the white devils where the ends justify the means. They teach to kill all white people.

      In this day we have now of all the talk of tolerance and the vileness of "hate speech" how is it possible that the writings of Cone and the so called Holy Koran have not been banned? A religious person cannot even say that homosexuality is wrong, but these peoiple can incite horrific violence and condemn people to death based on the color of their skin?

      Get me a bucket! I say remove the Koran and tear down all Mosques. Islam, as a hateful doctrine, is not compatible with any other culture or religion as it is mutually exclusive among it's adherants and it's charter is to convert everyone by force of necessary to this barbaric way of life.. Obama's ex church and others like it, should be closed dwon as they are clearly not legitimate institutions worthy of being condoned by our society. While we are at it, we should also ban Scientology as well for the destructive cult that it is..

      Over and out!

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Thanks hubhub2, I'll look into it.

    • hubhub2 profile image

      hubhub2 7 years ago from Post Falls, Idaho

      Brie -

      As I interpret Scripture, God, Himself, says people will refuse to use the brains He gave them. (Matthew 7:13) Though the evidence is astonishingly overwhelming, people of their own volition will cast it aside as though it's not even there, much less correct.

      So, don't let those who won't use their brains get you down. Remain humbly - feisty!

      If I could, I invite you to review, - www.demiseoftheusa.com - or - www.areyousavedyet.com

      May God Bless and keep you and yours...

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      I think you have an inadequate understanding of Islam...why don't you go there and spend some time.

    • Tchardo profile image

      Tchardo 7 years ago

      !!!?

      Thank God that all this too shall pass.

      What a shining example of how religious fanaticism, especially contradictory fanaticism, isn't compatible with the responsibility of the role America has taken in the world. No, I'm not meaning Obama.

      This is also a good sort of ironic demonstration of the benefits of multiculturalism.

      All this resonates with fear, hatred, and ignorance. It's a deeply troubling hub to read.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Interesting...did you watch the video I have on the Obama is not the Antichrist hub? I think that's what is going on.

    • tony0724 profile image

      tony0724 7 years ago from san diego calif

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Oh..tmo..Ok, I'll look into it, I thought you were talking about last Monday.

    • tony0724 profile image

      tony0724 7 years ago from san diego calif

      No Brie I am sorry I was not more clear. I read something on the Drudge Report that the NY Times is going to be running an article about how are President is engaging in an outreach program to Muslims and Arab Americans in the Monday edition tomrrow 4-19-10

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Can you be more specific? I'm not sure if I can get a copy of last Monday's times.

    • tony0724 profile image

      tony0724 7 years ago from san diego calif

      Brie you may want to check out the morning edition of the NY Times. It may very well confirm what you have been saying here. I am talking about the Monday morning edition by the way

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      (Jeremiah 31:31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

      (Jeremiah 31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

      (Jeremiah 31:33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

      (Jeremiah 31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

      (Hebrews 8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

      (Hebrews 8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

      (Hebrews 8:10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

      (Hebrews 8:11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

      (Hebrews 8:12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

      (Hebrews 8:13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

      (Hebrews 12:24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

      The old covenant doesn't apply any longer. God has made a new covenant based on Jesus and the Jews will accept it.

      (Zechariah 7:13) Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of hosts:

      (Zechariah 7:14) But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.

      (Zechariah 8:4) Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.

      (Zechariah 8:5) And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

      (Zechariah 8:6) Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvelous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvelous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.

      (Zechariah 8:7) Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;

      (Zechariah 8:8) And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

      (Zechariah 13:6) And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

      (Zechariah 14:1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

      (Zechariah 14:2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

      (Zechariah 14:3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

      (Zechariah 14:4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

      The last few verses are of the future when Jesus comes back, but he will come back to Israel and the Jews will be there...it is ordained.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Brie:

      "Deuteronomy 28 was written before the Babylon dispersion, not this last one in 60 A.D."

      But Brie, you know that there were subsequent takeovers of the land after Babylon was destroyed and the jews returned again. The Greeks conquered them, then the Romans after them. There were warnings throughout about the covenant and it's conditions...like this one:

      "The LORD swore an oath to David, a sure oath that he will not revoke: "One of your own descendants I will place on your throne – if your sons keep my covenant and the statutes I teach them, then their sons will sit on your throne for ever and ever." (Psalm 132:11-12)

      Passages like this one only confirm the covenant laid down in Deuteronomy.

      It goes back to my point in all this that perhaps it is the Israeli leadership's intentional displacement of peoples in the region that violates the covenant. It is possible that this is causing them so much conflict there and amongst their other neighboring states, if one truly believes scripture.

      "Why don't you take a look at the last video I have on here, that Muslim man seems to disagree with you."

      Sure...and he isn't the only one who disagrees with me. There are also many who do agree with me. Your statement proves nothing except what I said above about there being a contention within the faith about Aisha's age at marriage to Muhammad and by extension the adherance to what many percieve as his example to the muslim community.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Why don't you take a look at the last video I have on here, that Muslim man seems to disagree with you. Deuteronomy 28 was written before the Babylon dispersion, not this last one in 60 A.D.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Brie...

      Deuteronomy 28.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Judah's Daughter.

      I thank you for supplying so much for me to cover here. Now pay close attention, because I want to point out a few more points that you have dreadfully wrong.

      "Muhammad was a child molester." - This image has been widely embraced (both within islam and outside islam) when in fact islamic historians have disproven this by virtue of determining Aisha's age at actual marriage to Muhammad. Aisha's sister Asma was 10 years older than Aisha. Asma is said to have been 28 years old at the time of the migration of Muhammad and his followers to Medina in 622AD. Her marriage to muhammad took place after the migration. If Aisha was 10 years younger than Asma, that would make her at least 18 at the time of her marriage to Muhammad. Unfortunately many have ignored this timeline and sought to either brand Muhammad as a child molester (and islam a religion of pedophiles by extension) or somehow attempt to justify a pedophilic union due to their reverence for him as a prophet (which is a sick, deviant position in and of itself).

      "Jihad is "secret" war (wink). You may not be a radical, but the most radical of all religions in the world today is Islam (Shiite and Sharia)." - Again...go back and read Exodus, Deuteronomy and Leviticus regarding laws for the faithful. I gave you examples above of biblical penalties of death (for non-believers, followers of other religions, non-virgins, gays, disobedient children and others) which can all be found in those three books. You are again mischaracterizing islam and christianity simultaneously by consistently referring to characteristics which exist in both, and then only in perjorative terms when you attach them to islam. Islam, christianity, judaism or any other religion has extremist and moderate elements. There are christian and jewish radicals as well as islamic radicals. There is no one any more radical than the other.

      I thought I'd covered this already. (lol)

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      What you just wrote is irrelevant as to whether Israel belongs to the Jews or not.

    • profile image

      B.phillips 7 years ago from Doha, Qatar

      Do you remember when Jesus helped the Samaritan Woman? Do you remember when Jesus said go out into the world and preach the Gospel? Do you remember when Jesus gave the Gospel message to the gentiles? His disciples left Israel, which was occupied by Rome and traveled all over this planet. Israel was promised by God to the Jews. However, God throughout the Bible makes it a point to show the hypocrisy and the lack of mercy of the scribes and Pharisees. There was probably no better example of a person who stood with the oppressed, sick and outcasts than Jesus Christ. I fully believe Christ would be in the west Bank or the Gaza strip healing the sick and fatherless, rather than chilling out on a beach in Tel Aviv.

      God bless you.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      There is radical good and there is radical evil. For a Christian to disregard the clear teaching that Israel belongs to the Jews is to ignore the Bible, that person is not a Christian but some made up religion.

    • profile image

      B.phillips 7 years ago from Doha, Qatar

      To judah's Daughter- A christian does not need to support Israel or Palestine. A Christian is called to love the Lord their God with all their heart mind and Spirit and their neighbor as themselves. This is the call of Christ. To live in faith and Love. The kingdom of God according to Christ was not of this Earth, therefore to stand up for one political state or another is really irrelevant. I know many Palestinian Christians who are appalled by the oppression that Palestinians suffer. Christ called people to work for justice, and this is what is most important. the situation between Israel and Palestine is not just, bottom line. Actions on both sides are disgusting. However, I would not stand behind any of these nations waving either flag. I suppose I am a radical, only in the sense that Jesus was considered a radical and an outcast. Jihad, in arabic means struggle and the greatest struggle according to islam is the struggle against the self. This internal battle is one that is much more important than the external battle that is so common in the middle east. Also it is important for you to know that "Sharia" is not a muslim but a legal system of Islam. So perhaps you meant to say that the "most radical religion in the world is Shia'a and Sunni." Either way a truly radical religion is one that pushes a person to explore beyond the worldly level of existence. Christianity urges a person to do just this.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      To B.Phillips ~ And Muhammad was a child molester. Christians support Israel. Jihad is "secret" war (wink). You may not be a radical, but the most radical of all religions in the world today is Islam (Shiite and Sharia).

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      The Title is Obama is Muslim OR AT THE VERY LEAST HAS MUSLIM LEANINGS!

    • profile image

      B.phillips 7 years ago from Doha, Qatar

      I want to comment on a point you made in the article. You gave three examples to prove President Obama was a muslim. None of these points are actually correct. Simply because a person's father is Muslim does not actually make them a muslim. The father, however is required to raise this child according to the religion of Islam. At the end of the day, it is up to the individual to decide if they are Muslim or not. Kissing the Ring of the Saudi King is also not an indication of being Muslim. Thirdly, if a person supporst Palestine, it does not make them Muslim. In fact it might make them more Christian. As the Christian faith is founded on principal of justice. There are many Christians in Palestine, and they certainly support palestine not Israel. Does that make them Muslim?

      Honestly, your arguments are not founded at all. They are not researched well, and the ideal that you sugested in some later comments about judging others as a Christian principal has been violated by your self. You generalize all muslims as suicide bombers, and refer to the prophet of this religion as a Child molester. This is honestly childish, and demonstrates very basic logic skills.

      Why did you not mention President Obama's speech in Cairo university where he told the Muslim world he was a christian? Does that not count for something? If he was a muslim, he would simply say Allhumdullilah, I am a muslim as most muslims say.

      You also make a claim that most people in the west would not catch the subtle messages Obama gives for being Muslim, as if it is a secret society where one winks to let others know they are in the club. MOre realistically, you appear to have litte experience with the middle east, ad very little knowledge about Islam or muslims in general.

      b.Phillips

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Regardless, if it were "right" it would be legal today...at least in the corrupt "world". It's not and mankind does all sorts of things they deem as "legal" that go against God's Law. Sodom and Gomorrah had a separation of "church and state" (so-to-speak). What they practiced was allowed in their own government ~ didn't stop GOD from pouring out His wrath. Jesus said it will be as it was in the days of Lot (and the days of Noah) regarding wickedness on the earth when He comes to rescue His church and pour out His wrath one last time. Get saved, Joe. We love you enough to tell you the truth...we're fighting FOR you and against corrupt doctrine. Just pray to God and let Him do the rest. He created you, died for you and is waiting for you to come home.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      It doesn't matter who says that it's ok to have sex with children, it is still wrong and evil. It was then and it is now and that is the point. A further point is that it is still being practiced in the Muslim religion as the video's below prove.

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      JUDAHS DAUGHTER no it's american legal age for marriage and consent for sex in 19th century.it was in response to your earlier question. but she doesn't want links on her hub. so she deleted it!

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
      Author

      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Thanks AdsenseStrategies, I try, sometimes it's hard to know when to draw the line but I do think people have a right to their opinions, however misguided. :)

    • AdsenseStrategies profile image

      AdsenseStrategies 7 years ago from CONTACT ME at Adsensibilities@gmail.com

      Brie, I really do not want to get into this debate, but I did think I would comment and say how impressed I am with how freely you are allowing dissent on the comments thread here. This is what true democracy is about

    • tonymac04 profile image

      Tony McGregor 7 years ago from South Africa

      If it was my link you are referring to it was not a Muslim justification link, it was a link to one of my Hubs on religious intolerance. I think I just proved my point anyway so cheers! I'm out of here.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Why not provide the link? Is it a "Muslim justification" link?

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      ok so then here is that same excerpt but without the link. " Throughout most of the 19th century, the minimum age of consent for sexual intercourse in most American states was 10 years. In Delaware it was only 7 years." so then,both religions were guilty of the same!

    • OpinionDuck profile image

      OpinionDuck 7 years ago

      Brie

      Forget the labels and let us evaluate President Obama by his actions.

      So far his actions are pathetic but not religious.

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      brie then all the states were evil. i don't defend nor can i understand it at all. i only state the "facts". our reasoning and morality have evolved since our more primitive days, and so the very christian people that you speak of,i'm sure were guilty of the same thing you find as the flaw for muhammed.

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Please do not put outside URLS on my hub, if you want to publish your own HUB, feel free. I do not allow them on mine.

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      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Judah’s Daughter:

      Wow. I scrolled back up a little further and was a bit overwhelmed. When you mischaracterize you go all out.

      “The Qur'an is the total antithesis of the Bible”- Wrong. I urge you to provide evidence in the quran or the bible of such.

      “…their Mahdi is our Antichrist…”- Wrong. The Madhi is one who is believed by many muslims to fight alongside Jesus in the final battle between righteousness and evil. The belief in a Mahdi isn’t even a universally accepted part of islamic understanding, mainly because there is no mention of a mahdi in the quran. This belief exists largely due to hadiths by many islamic scholars and is debated within the faith. The Shi’a subscribe mainly to this concept.

      “our Jesus Christ is their Dajjal (Antichrist)”- Wrong. The Dajjal is the “great deceiver” in islam, which is the equivalent of the “antichrist” in christianity. Jesus is actually believed to fight alongside the Mahdi in the final battle against Dajjal. However, there is no direct mention of this in the quran. Hadiths are the main source of this belief.

      “their Isa is our false prophet” – Wrong. Isa IS Jesus. This is his name in the quran...translated into arabic. The same was done with Moses (Musa), Abraham (Ibrahim), Mary (Maryam) and others.

      “our God is their Satan and our lake of fire (hell) is their heaven”- Firstly, it should be made clear that muslims for the most part believe that there are many levels to heaven (just as the bible mentions several heavens) and that heaven is largely inconceivable by human beings in our earthly state, as it is a state of inconceivable bliss in reward for a life of righteousness. Islamic doctrine tries to encapsulate and describe the bliss in terms of those things we find most rapturously pleasurable on earth. To imply that heaven for muslims is somehow hell for christians is misguided to say the least and lacks scriptural foundation. It is also an extremely polarizing perspective.

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      JUDAHS DAUGHTER- i have this for you. the average that people married was 14 15 and 16 but the law stated that it was at first menarche. but here is an excerpt

      "Throughout most of the 19th century, the minimum age of consent for sexual intercourse in most American states was 10 years. In Delaware it was only 7 years."

      http://www.pflagsanjose.org/advocacy/hist.html

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Joe: Even if what you say is true (which I doubt) that doesn't make it NOT CHILD RAPE. It is, it always will be and it's evil to the core. I don't care if the whole world says its ok. That you would in any way try and defend it is horrible.

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      well check your state!

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      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      JOE, why don't you site your sources?

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      brie if you will check every state in the united states you will find the legal marrying age use to be 8 and 9 and 10 years of age.one of the last ones coming off the books was massachusetts(in the early 80's) whose legal age was 8.you cant use an anachronistic view to bend the story.you must use apples to apples. well,you can say whatever you like but there is a difference between that and what is.

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      50 Year Old White Guy: First of all, the Bible itself says that we are to know them by their fruits, the girl's picture was entirely immodest by a long shot and that is why I said what I did. On top of that I do NOT think it is anti-Christian to point out certain facts about someone. I have no animosity towards Obama, I do not think he is a brother in Christ (because of his actions). I agree that no sin is greater than another but there is no sin in writing the truth. You may not agree with it but there is no sin there. And, like I said I have no anger or animosity towards him, I just think he favors the Muslim world over the rest.

    • profile image

      50 Year old White Guy 7 years ago

      WOW! I'm afraid the so-called Christians posting to this blog are in for a rude awakening.

      I accidentally found this blog through a series of link clicking. I must say it is "interesting" to say the least.

      There are so many arguments that can be made to expose the false Christianity that leaps from this page. Brie, you yourself judged a young lady by her picture. How Christian is that?

      You argue that Israel has the right to do whatever they choose because their country was "stolen" from them in 60 AD. Using that logic, native Americans have every right to force the rest of us out of this country. Their country was "stolen" from them less than 400 years ago! I, personally, don't have a horse in the Israeli/Palestinian race, and don't support either side.

      You freely quote the bible when it suits your argument, but you, along with most false Christians, fail to see the entire picture. Take for example your quote of "He said to love your enemies and do good to those who persecute you."

      A true Christian "LIVES" the scripture. That would mean that you would be required by the law of Jesus to treat even Osama Bin Laden as your brother. How many "Christian" Americans do you think would do that?

      Remember, no sin is greater than another in the eyes of the Lord. Look inward before you cast the first stone.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Judah's Daughter:

      Child molestation, suicide bombing and murder are sins in islam just as in christianity. But to insist that there are no christian extremist groups who sanction killing is just plain inaccurate. Pro-life extremists are proof of that (with their well-documented history of assault, harassment, intimidation and murder), as well as right-wing militia groups (many of whom believe in their own form of divine calling to commit murder and aren't above carrying it out). Extremist groups of all stripes and faiths have blood on their hands. You may also recall when "The Last Temptation of Christ" was released it was christian extremists who firebombed crowded movie theaters, simply because of the film's depiction of Christ.

      I only mention the above examples for the purpose of illustrating that islam has no patent or monopoly on violence in it's name by those who pervert it's doctrine.

      It is also necessary that you define the term 'jihad' from a mainstream (non-extremist) islamic perspective before lumping it in with truly despicable acts such as murder and child molestation. Jihad translates literally as "work" or "struggle." Idealogical demagogues in the islamic world have exploited the post-Crusade imagery of the marauding islamic hordes in order to play upon the fears of many and anger of others. This is yet again an instance of taking the most extremely sick and twisted amongst a group and defining the group by them.

      As far as God condoning murder in the bible, I think it may lend a bit of clarity to go back to Deuteronomy and Leviticus and examine the scriptures that specifically instruct the faithful to kill non-believers, false prophets, followers of other religions, blasphemers, non-virgins...even disrespectful children, simply because they are such. Moses called for the murder of 3000 people for worshipping an idol, yet we revere him as a prophet.

      The bottom line is that one can look to scripture to see the best and worst of what humanity has to offer. This doesn't mean that one or the other is inherently evil, it just means that we must read scripture with a strong understanding of scriptural context from historical, social and political perspectives alongside the prophetic message.

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      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      BP9, Well, any talk of religious extremism is radical. Any Muslim that molests children in the name of Allah is such a one.

      One thing I can say is this ~ there is no "radical Christian" sect that practices this in the name of God (maybe Satanism), encourages suicide bombings, jihad or killing of the "infadels" in this day and age. As for "radical Islam" I cannot say the same and neither can you.

      I think it's sick that Muslim radicals disguise themselves as "Americans" (even Major Nidal Malik Hasan in the Fort Hood massacre) in order to kill PEOPLE they deem as "the Great Satan"...people that may or may not be "Christians". It's horrible and despicable. How long did Hasan pose as an American soldier, sworn to defend and protect, accomplishing the rank of Major? Why would we then suspect our own President? This is what radical jihadists foster. We certainly don't have "Christians" over in Islamic countries disguising themselves as Muslims in order to kill as many PEOPLE as they can ~ Sunni or Shiite, or non-Muslims...because they're viewed as "infadels" or the "Great Satan".

      That is pre-meditated MURDER and our God of the Bible does NOT condone this at all. There is reason for war (and it's certainly not secret) and that is shown scripturally; there is no scriptural "blessing" for murder...at least in Christianity.

      I think that's the bottom line.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Judah's Daughter:

      With all due respect, Khomeini was a radical extremist. The rank and file of the muslim community (that is outside of the circle of extremism) does not respect his interpretation of islamic law and the quran any moreso than I'm certain the bulk of the christian community respects Wesley Swift's or Thomas Robb's interpretation of scripture.

      To quote Khomeini about child brides, yet not refer to any quranic directive that supports pedophilia offers a distorted perspective of the inherent spirit of islam. This would be the same as me quoting one of the extremist christian identity figures above as speaking for the whole of the christian world...which I know they do not.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Brie, your quote:

      "Personally, I do not think that it is conditional and evidently that is not true. They have not returned to God and yet God has returned them to the land (miraculously I might add)"

      You don't think it's conditional...yet scripture states such specifically. Again...Deuteronomy 28.

      The jews have returned to the land, true enough. They are however violating the instructions of the very covenant that assures them the land, in that (as you say) "they have not returned to God." What sort of "miraculous" event occurs despite God's instruction by way of covenant?

      I think it bears examination that your personal opinion in this case conflicts with scriptural edicts.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Tony: A religion that practices child sacrifice, would you "judge" that religion and say that that is vile?

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      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      tonymac04, If you call the Qur'an "holy" you may as well follow Muhammad. The Qur'an is the total antithesis of the Bible, in that their Mahdi is our Antichrist, and our Jesus Christ is their Dajjal (Antichrist); their Isa is our false prophet; our God is their Satan and our lake of fire (hell) is their heaven...should I go on? If you want to "see" this, then I recommend my hub called "The Unholy Trinity".

      Did the Ayatollah follow Muhammad? Is Muhammad the only prophet or authority in Islam? I'll answer these for you: 1) Yes and 2) No. We are told as Christians to "Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction." If you think this is the preacher judging, you are mistaken; it's what is preached that will be your judge...that would be the Word of Christ.

    • tonymac04 profile image

      Tony McGregor 7 years ago from South Africa

      What an assumption that I follow Muhammad! Actually I don't. I think you misunderstand my points. If the Ayatollah said what you have quoted him as saying then I think he is misrepresenting Muhammad and the Holy Quran.

      Where ever did Muhammad sanctify molesting a child as a holy thing to do?

      My point is that Jesus explicitly told us not to judge.

      I don't think it is right to judge another person's religion and call it "vile". I just think we need to be more careful about what we say about other people's beliefs and religion. I could say many negative things about Christianity based on the behaviours of people who call themselves Christian. I don't condemn Christianity because of the vile behaviour of some Christians. I know there are billions of Christians who do not behave like that. But there are some who do. The same thing applies to Islam. And I would guess to any other religion, for that matter.

      Anyway I won't tire you any more. Sorry that I did.

      Love and peace

      Tony

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      So true.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      I know how it feels; believe me. Jesus said He came to heal the sick, and only by His power will the sick get well. What a miracle when even one does!!

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Once again thank you JD, I get so tired arguing with some of these people, you are an angel to intervene for me and full of Godly wisdom.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      tonymac04, you need to study up on judging. There is a right kind of judging and a sinful type of judging...hence the Book of Judges? Was Solomon not a judge? God is the ultimate judge of eternal destination. God is holy; His Word is holy and He never sinned. He is the righteous Judge and the Word He spoke will judge on the last day (John 12:48). And as far as marrying an infant or even a six-year-old, consummating the marriage at nine ~ this child has no say or will in the matter. That's what RAPE means. That's what child molestation means. It's sick and wrong. You only justify it because you follow a man (Muhammad) rather than God. Islam puts Muhammad equal with the Christian Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, born of the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary. He never sinned. Muhammad had two earthly parents, born into sin and he himself was a sinner ~ especially in molesting a child and sanctifying it as a holy thing to do.

      I quote Islam's Ayatollah Khomeni: "A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate; sodomizing the child is OK. If a man penetrates and damages the child, then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however, does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister. . . It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's house. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven." Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Tahrirolvasyleh, volume 4 (Gom, Iran: Darol Elm, 1990), p. 186

    • tonymac04 profile image

      Tony McGregor 7 years ago from South Africa

      I think you need to do a little more research - I would challenge you to find anything were a Muslim theologian advocates child rape.

      My philosophy is not to tolerate everything. My philosophy is to respect everyone. there is a difference. I do not tolerate racism, I do not tolerate murder, I do not tolerate disrespect for others, I certainly do not tolerate rape of any kind. But I do try to understand these things, to understand other people without condemning them.

      I'm trying to understand how a follower of the one who said "do not judge" will judge and condemn 1.4 billion people and call them followers of a "vile" religion. I just find it very difficult to understand that.

      I would like to recommend to you a fellow-Hubbers latest Hub, this one by Al (Mystique1957): http://hubpages.com/hub/Forgiveness-A-free-pass-to... It's a wonderful Hub.

      Thanks for engaging with me and I still wish you sincerely: Love and peace

      Tony

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Yes, I can say that they aren't Christians if they do these things because that is exactly what Jesus said...You shall know them by their fruits!

      I never said decency was to be thrown out but that doesn't mean I can't call a spade a spade! Decency does not mean that people should be allowed to believe whatever they want without criticism. I do not hate anyone, nor do I say that a religion that advocates child rape is GOOD. Saying so does not mean that I hate someone. It is merely stating the facts.

      I'll take that measure...the measure I use.

      By your philosophy anything would be tolerated.

    • tonymac04 profile image

      Tony McGregor 7 years ago from South Africa

      OK Brie -you have to read some history, lady. I did not say that the Bible said anything about child marriages, but certainly in the Middle Ages, for example, Christian girls were married to older men at age 11 or 12 - it was a common practice, especially among the upper classes who used such marriages for political or commercial ends.

      Christians have done many vile things in the name of Christ. I am not saying that Jesus advocated such things, but such things were done in the name of Christ. Just this year there have been killing of Moslems by Christians and killing of Christians by Moslems in Nigeria. Such things were not advocated by Muhammad or by Jesus, but their followers do them and justify them in the name of their respective faiths.

      Go back in history and you will find many such things. The Inquisition was conducted in the name of Jesus and had women burnt at the stake for being "witches" - how vile is that? King Louis IX of France, btw a Christian saint, banned the Jewish Talmud and had it burned and the Jews thrown out of Paris and forbidden to trade there. Nice stuff. He also started the first Crusade which led to the killing of thousands of Moslems, again in the name of Jesus. Do I need to go on?

      My point is that intolerance of others leads to dreaful things being done. No-one is more guilty or more to blame in this issue. I don't like the way Moslems have killed Christians, and equally I don't like the way Christians have killed Moslems.

      And we can't just write off the people who do horrible things and say they are not followers of Christ if they do these things in His name.

      All I am pleading for is a little decency in how we treat other people. No doubt through the centuries many atrocities have been committed on both sides. Let's not add to the hate and misunderstanding. Let's look first for the good in others. Let's not judge, because by the same measure that we judge, so we will also be judged. That is a spiritual law from which there is no escape!

      Love and peace

      Tony

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Ummm, the video I have on this hub states that the child was 6 and he consummated the "marriage" when she was 9...That is CHILD RAPE!

      And that is VILE and that is the leader of the Muslim religion.

      Christian girls were never married off like that and there is no reference in the Bible that they were.

      And, Christians haven't done vile things because if they did I would not say that they were Christians as the very definition of a Christian is a follower of Christ. And, he never advocated that, if someone does such things they are not followers of Christ.

    • tonymac04 profile image

      Tony McGregor 7 years ago from South Africa

      Aisha was in fact nine when they married and the marriage was only consumated some years later. I can find no reference to Muhammad raping her. Remember that Christian girls were also often married off, or at least betrothed, to much older men at ages similar to that of Aisha when she and the Prophet were married.

      I don't like the way Muslim women are treated in many ways either. At the same time I have known quite a number of Muslim women who are fearless and active workers for the rights of others, very involved in their communities and doing great work. And at the same time being very devout Muslims.

      The Bible also says some really aweful things about how women should be treated, so I don't think Christians or Jews have any right to criticise Islam on that account.

      To call another religion "vile", is undiplomatic, unkind and just plain wrong.

      Christians have done many, many vile things in their history, but I would still not call the religion "vile".

      The fact is that people of all and any religions do vile things. They might justify doing these things with some religious doctrine or other, but that does not make the religion vile, just them.

      Preach love and understanding, not hate and falsehood, please. There is too much hatred in the world already. We need to reduce intolerance, not increase it.

      I again urge you to read Karen Armstrong's books, the one I recommended above and her biography of Muhammad. They are eye-opening and relatively easy reads, but very valuable.

      She ends her biography of the Prophet with these words, after stating that the West needs to make more effort to understand Islam: "Perhaps one place to start is with the figure of Muhammad: a complex, passionate man who sometimes did things that it is difficult for us to accept, but who had genius of a profound order and founded a religion and a cultural tradition that was not based on the sword - despite the Western myth - and whose name 'Islam' signifies peace and reconciliation."

      Love and peace

      Tony

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Hi William R. Wilson: I'm glad you asked. Actually, I've received more "hate" mail from this one Hub than all of my hubs put together...so to answer your second question first, I'm not doing this to "stir up controversy". The title speaks for itself. I don't think Obama is a muslim in the sense of praying 5 times a day toward the east but I do think he has very definite Muslim leanings and sympathies. I think that he is a Muslim in the sense that his father was a Muslim. Just like I am a Jew because my mother's mother was a Jew.

      I started to look into this after the way he treated Netanyahu and yes this is what I truly believe. Believe me, I don't like getting "hate" mail, but I do think that I should be able to say what I believe and why. I think I have stated the case for anyone willing to look at the evidence on the hub, the video's and the links and my case (as stated).

      I don't allow urls from outside sources so if you would like to resubmit your comment without it I would be glad to approve of it.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Well, obviously I disagree. I have read several books on Islam and their treatment of women and children. The religion is vile. The prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, marrying a 6 year old and raping her (having sex with her) at 9. Did you watch the video? Even today Muslim clerics are saying that is ok. You don't see this in the Christian religion. Sorry Tony but I think you are ignorant of what is going on in the world. Read the book "Princess" I put it on my blog just for you, then get back to me and let me know if you feel the same. And that is just one of many accounts of Muslim atrocities.

    • tonymac04 profile image

      Tony McGregor 7 years ago from South Africa

      I don't for one second believe that President Obama is a Muslim, and I don't give a tinker's cuss whether he is or not. As far as I can see he is a sane and balanced man tryhing to rectify the unutterable wrongs brought about by his predecessor. He has a tough job.

      As for Muslims or Islam being violent, that is no more true of them than it is of Christians or Jews. The Holy Quran does not advocate violence any more than the Holy Bible does. And see, I called the Quran Holy? But I'm not a Muslim. But it IS a Holy Book, certainly to something like 1.4 billion people on this planet.

      I strongly recommend the book by Karen Armstrong "Islam - a very short History" to really understand Islam and what it means.

      Let's for goodness sake try to understand and accept people who are different.

      And by the way, will the US give all its land back, unconditionally, to the First People who lived there when the colonists arrived? Israel has a right to exist. The Palestinians have a right to land. The challenge is to find a solution to this dilemma. It's a practical, political issue, not a religious one. And dragging religion into the issue will only cloud it and reduce the possibility of solving it.

      Love and peace

      Tony

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Personally, I do not think that it is conditional and evidently that is not true. They have not returned to God and yet God has returned them to the land (miraculously I might add).

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      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Brie,

      No need to condescend. We can all read here...and I'm certain you aren't the only person here who has read scripture in more than just a casual fashion.

      That said:

      The prophecies of the Jews being brought back after dispersal is not what I'm taking issue with. I acknowledge this fact fully.

      I'm simply pointing out the fact that scripture makes the jews' return conditional. There was a covenant made by God with the jews. This is essentially a contract that regulates certain things jews are and are not to do in order to live up to that contract. If indeed the jews as a people (even if by political proxy) do not live up to the stipulations set forth in the covenant, scripture advises that they will not be blessed in the land they were promised. There is a whole list of things that God has said will befall the jews if the covenant is not kept.

      Deuteronomy 28 lays it all out.

      I actually brought all this up to suggest that perhaps in actively seeking to displace the arab population to expand settlements, those who identify as jews exherting their divine right to the land are not living up to their contract with God.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      You had better go back and read your Bible because it's all over it about the Jews being dispersed throughout the world and then being brought back, if you don't know where that is in the Bible then I can't expect that you will know anything else about the Bible.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      There was no timeline placed on the covenant that I could find. The conditions were spelled out and in order to assert ordained stewardship of the land, the people would have to adhere to them. The State of Israel sanctions continuing displacement of Arab peoples via occupation...with the full support of the majority of jewish diaspora.

      This is mistreatment of the "stranger"...which is a sin according to Moses. The Israeli covenant with God is a promise that in return for doing God's will (obeying God's law) The chosen people will be blessed in the land of Israel. Violation of that covenant results in the chosen being cursed in the land of Israel.

      Israeli support of the Israeli government in policies which are not in keeping with the spirit of the law is a violation of the law, breaking of the covenant and affects the status of Israel's ownership of the land.

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Like I said, if someone commits murder that is a sin and it will be punished. But, that doesn't mean that Israel does not belong to the Jews. If someone came to the U.S. and tried to get you out, would you fight? I am not judging them one way or another, I am just saying that Israel belongs to the Jews.

      And your argument about the bank is fallacious because they are not robbing the bank, they own the bank.

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      ok if the lord said it , then you would think it would be more like , one day the palestinians would have called the jews and said hey ya know all of a sudden we are tired of living here and we thought we'd see if you wanted to move here. not,the lord said i want you to go in and kill everyone that has been living there for 2 thousand years.when the lord does it,it is effortless! another problem with religion, zealots. how about i needed money and the lord told me to go to a bank. so when i got to the bank i robbed them, but i did it in the name of the lord. so,that makes it ok. supposedly this, is being done in the name of the lord, but doing everything opposite the lords word, how convenient!

      all it is,is a piece of ground and only some of the jews want to live there, lots have never been there and never will go. others that grow up there,when they become 18 will move to the u.s. as soon as they can. i know jews now,here, today that were in the isreali army and now they live here.fought for nothing. fighting , killing for a place they don't even wanna live. this is not a football game!it's not points . . . . . it's killing!place yourself in the palestinians shoes and i bet suddenly you would say that what they do is . . . pure evil.

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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      God said he was angry with Israel for breaking his covenant and that is why he scattered them but in the latter days he would bring them back (which he has done). I do not support evil, but just because some do evil doesn't mean that Israel does not belong to the Jews.

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      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      bp9- these are the problems i have with christianity. jesus' descendants doing just the opposite of what he said. talking out of both sides of their mouths. i don't understand.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      From what I understand from scripture (Deuteronomy), ownership of Israel was assigned by covenant...which was conditional. One of the conditions as laid down was this one in Deuteronomy 27:19:

      "Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow"

      A clarifying example of this is here in Leviticus 19:33-34-"And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.

      But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt"

      When Moses laid out these instructions (amongst others) at Mount Ebal, he advised that violating any of them breaks the covenant ("...cursed shalt thou be in the city...").

      Now, it would seem that the Palestinian people would be just such a stranger. If not, clarify for me.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      They can't because the Palestinians will not allow it.

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      brie you keep referring to 60 ad. it has changed now it has been 2000 years what is so hard to understand about that. also if it was so important then you would not be able to find a jew anywhere other than isreal. ok so they are taking it back. fine! but the killing is WRONG for what is both their homes. why can't the jews and the palestinians live together. they do this in germany! if the germans can do it why can't the jews?

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Israel belongs to the Jews, what has he stolen?

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      judahs daughter- hi brie Netanyahu is incredibly gracious; I find him to honor God in all he is and does.. so i missed the stealing and killing part of god before. what chapter and book would that be in?

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      As Judah's Daughter said, he is and was gracious.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      Netanyahu's spokesperson could have declined to comment, or he could have reiterated the obvious (that no consensus had been reached). There are any number of ways an experienced spokesperson in his position could have given an answer without actually answering.

      Smart politics does not lend itself to specific assertions about a subject this charged unless the specifics are true to what actually occurred.

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      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Netanyahu is incredibly gracious; I find him to honor God in all he is and does...that is a strange thing to the "world". I mean, come on...drop flyers by plane to the people to warn them of the oncoming attack? Grace!!

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      What else could Netanyahu's spokeperson say?

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      "Regarding the discrepancies in the Koran, there are whole groups of Muslims that disagree with you, they are Hamas, Al Quaida, Jihadists..etc"

      Of course extremist groups disagree with any moderate interpretation of quranic scripture, just as christian extremist groups disagree with any interpretation of biblical scripture that does not support their extremist agendas. In both cases, the motivation is not really spiritual at all. The motivations these groups embrace are based in ends that are largely political above anything else.

      Just the same, the perverse interpretations of scripture by these groups does not indict islam as a whole...only these groups.

      Also...

      P.M. Netanyahu's own spokesperson stated that the atmosphere in the meetings they had was good. The one thing I can remark upon from his visit that was different from normal visits was how little news coverage (by way of photo ops) it got. Other than this, all indicators show that P.M. Netanyahu was afforded every courtesy The White House extends a foreign head of state.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      The final arbitrator will be God.

    • Tulai profile image

      Tulai 7 years ago from France

      Brie, OUCHHHH!! I'd hate to be your neighbour: Bigotry really stinks!!

      Secularist10, I genuinely ADMIRE your patience with all the arguments put forward by Brie; a maceration of senseless, bigotry-dipped arguments, fuelled by ignorance. But hey everyone is entitled to her/his opinion!

      Finally, just to quote you Secularist10, "The unbiased reader will judge which of us has made a more coherent argument." You most definitely did!! A big thumbs up to you!

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Well, obviously you see things differently than many. The way Obama treated Netanyahu was terrible. When the P.M of France came over he was much more cordial. Regarding the discrepancies in the Koran, there are whole groups of Muslims that disagree with you, they are Hamas, Al Quaida, Jihadists..etc.

    • BP9 profile image

      BP9 7 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

      With all due respect, Brie...

      The sura you quoted (4:89) is not an order to kill infidels. It was revealed in a specific time of war in reference to those from whom the community Muhammad led was subject to frequent attack the Meccans.

      There is also this section soon after the one you quoted:

      "If God had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then God hath opened no way for you (to war against them)"

      The section from which this excerpt was taken calls for self-defense against an aggressor when read in it's entirety with the proper historical context.

      I also differ with you that Mr. Obama has continuously expressed a willingness to work with Israel. At the same time, where Israel has an opportunity to exercize it's influence in the region with an even hand and chooses not to, it is his responsibility to honestly address them. He has taken a moderate tone with P.M. Netanyahu while standing firm on legitimate criticisms. Ironically, George W. Bush threatened sanctions against Israel for not halting settlement construction, yet this did not destroy U.S./Israeli relations.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      P.S. Joe, I have a hub called "The Gospel in a Glass (A Parable)". Feel free to email me and I will help you all I can, but understand this; you can drink water from others your whole life, yet rest assured it will become stagnant if you don't let God fill you directly with His living rain. Be blessed.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      JOE, you answered your own question: "Now the first people on this planet WERE black. it's not in the bible but it's true. The question is "why not".but that is not my only issue. People take things out of context to get it to say whatever they want it to say. " You did just that.

      Where did all the people come from? The Bible says that Adam and Eve had other children; considering how long Adam lived (930 years), that would explain a lot.

      You said, "i was a christian my entire life...so you see when you do start to look into it,it falls apart and i mean "APART" and there are many more. this feeling and determination that i have reached just happened since xmas." This tells me Santa didn't bring you something?

      Listen, if you try to understand the Bible with carnal understanding, you will remain carnal. Either all who believe in God and His Word are fools, or not. If we be fools, then God is a fool, which if I were you, I would dare not go there. Just because you have questions that thus far haven't been answered to your satisfaction, does not mean the answers are false; you just need to find out they're true.

      Here's another fulfillment of Bible prophecy for you found in 2 Tim 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." It sounds like you still want to believe in Santa.

      I'm sure Brie and others, including myself, would like to help you on your spiritual path of understanding, but know this ~ we are not to lean on our OWN understanding, but in all our ways, we are to acknowledge Him and He will direct our path (Prov 3:5). This was written by Solomon, the wisest of all kings. Wisdom (Godly understanding) comes from God and until you love Him, you will not know Him, nor will you be taught by Him...it will remain foolishness to you. The Bible tells me so.

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      So what even if they were black, so what? All the questions you have can be answered in any of the books I have below.

    • JOE BARNETT profile image

      JOE BARNETT 7 years ago

      JUDAHS DAUGHTER-sorry BRIE "on the sixth day he made man in his likeness", ok that's settled. Now the first people on this planet WERE black. it's not in the bible but it's true. The question is "why not".but that is not my only issue. People take things out of context to get it to say whatever they want it to say. they will give you ten different verses from 5 different people discussing 6 different topics to manipulate us in the way they want us to go.it amazes me that something that is supposedly like concrete has to be defended constantly against very logical and substantive questions.because it "creates" confusion to a thinking person.also, if it is so, then why are there all the other religions.How many instruction manuals are there for your t.v. set.

      the story of santa didn't ruin me. but as a four year old, the thought process was the same as for christianity and i was a christian my entire life.you should have all the doubts too: adam and eve the only people on earth then cain and able. cain kills able asks the lord to protect him from people that might want to kill him and went and found his wife. where. .are. .all. .these. .people? you just tell yourself that it must be, that someone must know the answer but you just haven't found it yet,you just have faith and you don't worry about it or the story breaks down.Revelations are the babblings of a starving and delusional man(bless his soul) and we are supposed to base our life on this.if it happened today you would say " he was just delusional due too starvation". so you see when you do start to look into it,it falls apart and i mean "APART" and there are many more. this feeling and determination that i have reached just happened since xmas.it's like my whole life i was taught 2plus2 equals 5. then, when i actually counted it out i can only reach 4 and as i begin to tell people they say it's 5. then i show them there's only 4 see, and they say that's not in the bible so it couldn't be or some other discounting answer.it's a belief period

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Thank you, Brie ~ as I said, we are kindred spirits :-)

    • Brie Hoffman profile image
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      Brie Hoffman 7 years ago from Manhattan

      Very good answer J.D.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

      JOE, if you do some study on the location of the Garden of Eden, it is the Persian Gulf (now covered by water), but of course, THAT's not in the Bible, so take it or leave it. Are Persians black? No. Moses and Solomon married black women (yes). The same God who created Adam and Eve has revealed Himself to everyone. The god of this world (Satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelieving (the Bible says).

      The gospel of Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, dying for all mankind is living. It changes anyone who believes. It is powerful. Christians didn't say their religion is the only way; Jesus Himself said He is the only way (faith in Him). Many call themselves "Christians" but are not. Such are false apostles, the Bible says. Religion is of the flesh; faith is of the heart.

      Finding out Santa was real most likely made you think that God was made up, too. That's the damage lies do to children. When children find out, they must be assured that God is not made up.

      When I have a question about the Bible, I study it. I've been regularly studying (not just reading it in English) for over a year now, and using the Hebrew/Greek word translations keep everything consistent. The Bible does not contradict itself. In other words, if I were an Accountant and something didn't add up, I have a choice: I can force a number to make it appear to add up, when indeed I'm making the equation completely corrupt (pride and laziness), or I can continue to search for the mistake to know the accounting sheet is accurate. Worldly knowledge or "fixing numbers" (as in my Accountant example) puffs up, but is foolish. Godly knowledge causes us to study, test and try everything we "hear" or "read", praying and confirming the Word of truth the best we can.

      Nonetheless, God is living today in all who believe and is shedding His grace upon all who have not yet believed. There is an appointed time for each person to die (God's rules) and until then, I pray you open your heart to Jesus Christ, your Savior and Lord.