Why Conservatives are Wrong on Abortion
Pro-Lifers at a Rally
The picture below, that I have titled "Liberal Compassion, Conservative Ideology?" presents one with a conundrum that only ideological rhetoric can produce; Is it possible that a woman, who, pregnant at the third trimester, would actually choose to terminate her pregnancy? It is possible, but the cartoon below overlooks the reasons why a woman would choose such a course, such as issues regarding the mother's issues health. Yet another example of what happens when your ideology fits inside a cartoon.
Liberal Compassion, Conservative Ideology?
Whenever pro-lifers present their views regarding abortion rights, you hear a lot of the same arguments. Here are a few of the more common arguments against abortion;
- Abortion is a crime. It is committing murder against unborn babies, who deserve to be protected under the same laws as adults.
- Some scientific studies show that fetuses feel pain, which means that the procedure is not only destroying an unborn life, but is doing so tortuously.
- Some very famous people, many alive today, as well as historical figures of great value to some, were still in the womb once, and the world is filled with examples of women who chose to have them, instead of having an abortion. Some of these are wonderful success stories.
Conservatives rightly cringe at the idea of ending a life before it has a chance to begin. And none of the views outlined above are the wrong views. On the contrary, they are perfectly legitimate reasons to be doubtful of abortion. Conservatives have taken the issue on in many state and local legislatures, especially following the momentous Roe v. Wade decision by the Supreme Court, resting their hopes on legislation that would restrict, as much as possible, a woman's access to abortion. The three arguments presented above by the Pro-Life movement implies that the issue is, to a very great extent, a question of morality. Conservatives ask the question, "Is ending an unborn life moral?" Their answer to this question is a resounding "no."
Both sides agonize over abortion. Liberals do not want to advocate for the "murder" of unborn babies. But liberals are largely pro-choice, having decided that, at the end of the day, a woman should be free to make such a personal decision herself without state or federal involvement. Liberals therefor oppose conservative attempts to restrict access to abortion, or to limit the legal abilities of abortion providers, such as Planned Parenthood. The result is that Red states largely have tougher laws on abortion, while Blue states are more permissive regarding abortion. It is an impasse, with no apparent conclusion any time soon.
Conservatives deeply disagree with the momentous Roe v. Wade decision. As a result, they have advocated policies that, while working within the framework of that decision, have the intent to limit abortions as much as possible. However, while the intent of those policies are admirable, the effect they would have are actually the opposite of the ones intended.
We know this to be true, because there is historical precedent. In the early 20th century, 150,000 abortions occurred annually in the United States, and one out of every six of these ended in a woman's death. Laws in the U.S and England limiting a woman's access to abortion had little success with middle and upper class women, who could still obtain access to the procedures commonly used for it, though this was often very expensive. For poorer women, abortions were more dangerous. There was no guarantee that such illegal procedures would be conducted with sanitary equipment, under sanitary conditions. Such laws also created ripe conditions for charlatans to use herbal or chemical concoctions as a method of abortion. In one incident in 1898, after a number of miscarriages in Sheffield, England, had been blamed on lead from the water pipes, a woman admitted to using diachylon, a lead containing substance, as an abortifaciant (An abortifaciant one among any of the methods of abortion). An investigation into the activities of an abortionist in Alberta revealed that his abortifacient concoction allegedly contained Spanish fly.
Such methods are now out of fashion, largely because, for many women at least, abortion is a legal, if questionable, option. Abortion laws have allowed many people to undergo abortions that are conducted under the highest sort of professionalism, and under the best sanitary conditions. At the very least, legal abortion clinics can be regulated and inspected to ensure that they are safe.
Conservatives take regulation to an extreme. They have, in word and in deed, made it plain that they consider abortion to be a moral wrong, and their policies regarding abortion seek to apply these morals in real life. Conservatives ignore the implications of making abortion too hard for some women to procure legally. Through policies that limit abortions, conservatives risk driving abortion procedures underground, where it cannot be regulated by any law or inspected by any state or federal agency: where it would be dangerous and possibly lethal to those seeking an abortion.
Conservatives not only oppose abortion, but they also oppose contraception for largely religious reasons. While no one, conservative or liberal, opposes contraception in practice, conservatives chafe at being asked to pay taxes which allow other, less well off people greater access to contraception. Conservative business owners oppose being required to add contraception to their employees health plans. Conservative religious institutions resent having to provide contraceptive services which go against their beliefs. Contraception and abortion are two issues that go hand in hand. Put into effect, policies that increase access to contraception would have the effect of decreasing the demand for abortion. After all, no woman can have an abortion without having been pregnant in the first place.
Conservatives have failed to accept that they cannot have it both ways; either they increase contraceptive services to negate abortions, or they support greater abortion access to negate contraception, or they put an end to both and let the chips fall where they may. Liberals at least have made up their minds on the subject.
Comments
See abt79 it only took 11 hours for what you said to be restated as something you never said (where did you mention nature?) and then the babble speak from their world view is aimed at you to somehow declare you are illogical when you never stated anything they say you are illogical about. And I do mean babblespeak - nothing PE says is logical at all.
abt79, you can't logically deduce what nature's intention is or that there even is a such thing as intent. Just from observation we can see that nature is very wasteful in the areas you suggest as being ethical and purposeful and that if we have been granted discretion, free-will, and compensation in exchange for meeting a quota, then it is what it is. Something that engages in a questionable bargain with a trade-off isn't exactly all-powerful or exemplary from an ethical standpoint.
abt79 - so true, but you have now crossed the line. Espousing the uncompromising truth has become labeled as closed minded. So actually to be open minded in some peoples' little world you must believe truth is relative and there are no absolutes.
Sex is intended for procreation NOT pleasure.
Just as eating is INTENDED to fuel your body, but is pleasurable anyway because it is the way we work as humans. Humans are wired that NECESSARY acts are pleasurable to promote these acts.
LOGIC! D'OH
In my humble opinion.......I do not agree that you come across as pro-abortion. Unfortunately, too many readers read with open eyes but closed minds, which more often creates harsh reflex reaction. More importantly, it can be nearly impossible for the hard-core religious to avoid ranting w/ bible banging, as opposed to simply responding with their mind, morals and manners.
As an intelligent, highly moral & rational adult, I am fully capable of stating that abortion breaks my heart, without quoting Scripture or damning others to hell for all eternity.......if you follow me.
- AUTHOR
fpherj48.
Thank you again for commenting. I agree with you; I am advocating Pro-choice because I believe it is a more open view of a bad situation. I fear that I came across as pro-abortion in this hub, which wasn't my intent at all; I merely wanted to point out some implications of restricting or outlawing abortions. I'll be softening some of the language used here.
As for uncle um's comment, I'll let it rest just for now, and if he makes any more such comments, I will be deleting all of them.
tsadjatko......It appears poor "Uncle Um" is a brand new troll......joined hubpages only hours ago.....no hubs, followers nor (I will safely guess) no good intentions. Best any of us can do is ignore these little creatures. Don't bite......DELETE.
Each individual, last time I checked, is FREE to make their own personal choices, in terms of their sexual practices, care of their body, birth control, pregnancy and whether or not to avail themselves to abortion.
This right to "freedoms of choice," aside, with every privilege, I should think there are responsibilities, repercussions and the need for proactive education in all things.
How I feel, think believe about anything....abortion included, by no means should or would influence another individual. I have no pressing urge or need to feel obligated or responsible to TELL/FORCE-FEED/PREACH to others what they should and should not do, why, when or how.
I can be sad, angry, outraged or totally accepting of the choices of others.....this means nothing at all and truly has no constructive effect on my life nor theirs.
With all due respect to everyone and their personal opinions, the ultimate reality is that each of us are responsible for our own actions. We must live with our conscience, deal with possible consequences and either feel justified and comfortable or suffer remorse. It simply is not for any one else to be concerned with or struggle to change, under duress, threat or shaming.
There are many many places the Government absolutely does not belong. In terms of this particular hub.....they do not belong in either: our bedrooms nor our conscience.
Please let me add just one more personal thought. I have 4 adult sons, who have wonderful wives and children. I am Grandmother to 12 and Great Grandmother to one "little holy terror." LOL.......To think that any one of them would have been extinguished...thus, not born, crushes my entire being beyond bearable. However, I could not and would not "judge" these parents for their decisions. I hope to be understood. If not, so be it.
- AUTHOR
Hi Sanctuary. Thanks for stopping by, and for your comments.
Well first of all the Conservatives do not care the least about abortion. To claim they are conservative and have any moral values they need this to sucker others to have the same to vote and give them money. This is how you get people to support evil and to even vote against their own beliefs and the very things that would improve their lives and support the values they claim to support. The abortion debate is important but supporting evil and greed is not worth giving this evil your money or your vote. To achieve very little they get a lot and you only get more poverty, unless your hypocrite of course.
- AUTHOR
Hi gmwilliams.
Thanks again for your contribution. I do understand some of the Pro-Life movements reasoning on this issue, and can see where abortion raises emotions and hackles for some on both sides of the debate. I do not personally like abortion, and believe that other alternatives are sometimes better alternatives, such as adoption. However, as a man, I do not feel qualified to explain to any woman what her situation is and how she should deal with it. It is her CHOICE, which is important in a free society.
Sometimes there are no clear answers, and sometimes we as individuals have to choose between two bad options. At least contraception usually prevents pregnancy. It seems apparent to me that the more widely available contraception becomes, the more the demand for abortion will decline. This, to me, seems to be compatible with the outcome that everyone, Pro-Life and Pro-Choice, wants. The problem is that Pro-Lifers all to often object to contraception for any number of reasons. I see their positions as part of the problem, and their solutions as failing to solve it.
Thank you again for your comment, gmwilliams. It was a pretty good analysis of the situation.
Nathan, pro-lifers DON'T get it! Also the illogical argument that contraceptives increases so-called risky behaviors is totally beyond the pale. Contraception is beautiful and is part of a full sexual life. Oh boy, why are we talking about contraceptives in the 21st century? Contraception is here to stay and thank God. I am all for sexual freedom between consensual and responsible people.
Nathan, as I have said before, people who are pro-life are often against any type of contraception. They believe that sex=procreation. Such backward thinking. Sex is intended for pleasure, not just for procreation. Contraception is a necessity to prevent unwanted children. However, contraception is not 100% and that is why abortion is needed. No one should have to endure an unwanted pregnancy nor unwanted parenthood.
There are myriad instances which children are unwanted and endure abuse because they are unwanted. All people have to do is read the news of how children are abused because they were unwanted. I am now incensed. Not at you, of course. Pro-lifers make me as a New Age, Liberal feminist see red. How can they be so delusional to be against abortion and contraception. There is nothing wrong with contraception. It is part of modern life. Oops, did I say modern. Well, people who are against abortion and contraception belong in the Middle Ages where religion and illogical thinking were supreme. I really cannot comprehend the illogical premise of some people. Contraception is what makes for a sexually healthier society. I believe that abstinence-only sex education to be a total farce; contraception should be included in every sex education program.
- AUTHOR
Hi tsadjatko.
You make many assumptions about me based on my hub. Did you actually read what I wrote in the hub? I have my doubts about this, since you ignore the points this hub raises;
1) Outlawing or restricting abortions fails to actually end abortions, and instead drives abortions underground, where they are dangerous and potentially lethal.
2) Contraceptives cancel out abortion, and any attempt to actually end abortion should also support making contraceptives available to any person who needs them.
Are contraceptives perfect? Of course not. Is adoption a happier solution to abortion? Sometimes. But not always. If you have doubts about this, take a hard look at this country's foster care system. It is underfunded at the federal level, children sometimes spend their entire childhood being moved from one home to the other, without ever having a stable home, and, as wards of the state, children on foster care are sometimes used as test subjects for new drugs, with state permission.
Why do women choose to have an abortion? For many reasons. Some of them may be frivolous. But, despite what you say, rape and incest are reasons for many abortions. Sometimes a woman seeks an abortion because to carry a child to term would risk her health or life.
Many women are obviously financially unable to care for a child. Some are unstable. Some are addicted to crack. Sometimes a child develops symptoms in the womb that would severely stunt his development growing up, possibly leading to a life of great suffering, or a very short one, or no life at all. Again, we find ourselves back at the "social problems" Express10 spoke of.
How do you propose to care for children born into poverty, or into unstable homes to unbalanced mothers, or to parents addicted to crack? Because adoption is not always an option, or at any rate the best one. Contraception is one answer, and it is the best one.
Does contraception always work? Of course not. But it has a good reputation for working quite a lot, so it is naïve not to pursue this as an alternative to abortion.
You fail to see that our intentions are the same; to limit abortion as much as possible. I have seen the conservative method of dealing with abortions, and I have researched the history of similar attempts, many of which you can find in this hub. They do not work, do not put an end to abortion, and cause other problems. You accuse me of not taking an honest and clear eyed look at the situation. I have, and my conclusions inspired this hub.
We have reached an impasse, and neither of us will convince the other of the merits of our arguments. I particularly do not appreciate being referred to as "bright boy." Please refrain from similar methods of making your point in the future.
And Nathan when you say" It does not make sense to me that conservatives oppose both abortion and contraception. Contraception cancels out abortion. Your dissonance about this is astounding." you demonstrate once again your astounding lack of understanding and investigation of the issue. Personally I feel contraception is a last resort but a viable one in the real world only if someone cannot discipline themselves to not get pregnant because yes it can prevent the "necessity" for an abortion. But there are valid reasons which I'm sure you have never investigated for being against contraceptives or you wouldn't make such an absurd statement about your perceived "dissonance". Without explanation these are reasons why contraceptives are a bad idea. The link will give you a detailed explanation of each but these are certainly not reasons to be ignored, which it seems you are prone to do.
Contraception increases risky sexual behavior among those who use it.
Contraceptives often fail to work, especially among the young and unmarried.
Using contraception predisposes a woman to abort her child when contraceptives fail.
Contraception distorts the cultural sexual environment even for those who don't use it.
Condoms are not the answer
What's wrong with comprehensive sex-ed?
Contraception is unhealthy
What are the alternatives to artificial contraception?
- See more at: http://prolifeaction.org/faq/stand.php#abc1
Finally gmwilliams your excuse that a fetus is not a human until it is viable outside the womb is a lie and according to your rhetoric I don't see where you are against aborting a viable fetus since you believe the woman's sexual reproductive rights trumps all. Of course if you kill the baby in the womb it doesn't get a chance to be viable outside the womb, does it ? so kill them at any age as longas it is inside the womb. Of course y'all have no open mind on the subject or you'd watch this entire video - be honest you can't can you, or won't. http://crownrights.org/babies/
Only humane if you ignore the fact it is murder and an adopted baby has all the opportunity any unwanted baby would have in life. So I get your point, you actually believe it is more important to murder an unwanted baby than to give it life. But don't pretend abortion is not murder of an innocent human being. That's like saying Einstein wasn't a genius until he could take an IQ test. You really should take an honest look at the situation instead of belligerently asserting your right to convenient living over a living human being's right to life.
And Nathan there is no point in having a discussion with you because you just evade my points or twist the facts. Just as your hub ignored the points I made because you self servingly tried to frame what conservatives believe on the issue leaving out many other aspects even besides what I mentioned. There have been no other studies bright boy and as for "Nothing in this hub argues against adoption" - that's the point. You left it out, purposely. Adoption is the answer to any social problems or the like so abortion cannot be a last resort in those cases.
Nice try to I commend you for trying but you are obviously blind to the facts. Why is it you have to feel justified in promoting abortion? You're not a woman asserting your sexual rights...I think it is because you want to justify your beliefs in anyway you can so as to not feel guilty for advocating what in your heart you know is condoned murder of innocent human beings, babies, children.
If you are pro abortion you are absolutely against children! What do you think viable fetuses are - they are children and you don't care.
I know that all too well. Abortion is far more humane than to have a child and give it away. The logic of many pro-life people is totally implausible. Look at countries where populations are unchecked-children are unwanted and are born into poverty. Such children are abused or worse. Again, pro-life people are in essence, anti-life! I believe in being in charge on one's reproductive destiny, having wanted children who are born into the best of circumstances.
- AUTHOR
Hi gmwilliams,
Thank you for your thoughts. I would like to add something about children in foundling homes; many are considered wards of the state, and are often used as test subjects for new drugs, with state approval. It is not a good life being in the foster system.
- AUTHOR
Hi tsadjatko,
Thanks for stopping by.
Funny you should make an assumption that I do not care about children. As far as I can tell, I do care about them, very much. Never once did I accuse conservatives of not caring about children. Where did you get that idea?
1. So you have based your views on the subject from an obscure study done in 2004? Bit out of date. Since the 1987 and 2004 studies both used different methodologies, it would seem that the 2004 study was out to get different results. At any rate, the vast majority of sexual assaults on women go unreported by the woman, so I do take the study above with a grain of salt, and am certain that the people who did the study would advise the same.
2.Yes, unless you've been raped, or the pregnancy is the result of incest. Those things do happen, you know, regardless of what Todd Akin says. If a woman chooses to get pregnant, than that is her choice. Not yours.
3. Yes, adoption is often a more elegant answer to "unwanted" babies. Nothing in this hub argues against adoption.
Since this hub was about the unintended consequences of restricting or outlawing abortion, I found little reason to include adoption or other alternatives. Maybe I will address those in another hub.
As usual, tsadjatko, you are missing the whole story. Take Express10's comment as an example; They support abortion "as a last resort." The social problems they speak of would come as a result of unwanted children, or from parents who, for whatever financial or economic reason, are not in a good position to take care of children, who are, after all, expensive. Ask yourself, is it fair to enforce a life of poverty upon a child, or potential abuse from parents who did not want them? All for the sake of your own conscience telling you that abortion is wrong?
Here's an actual solution towards ending abortion; embrace contraception and fight to increase every single woman's access to it. Women (and men) who use contraception cannot conceive, which rules out abortion. That is the whole story.
It does not make sense to me that conservatives oppose both abortion and contraception. Contraception cancels out abortion. Your dissonance about this is astounding.
Unwanted? - There is a simple solution to avoid an unwanted pregnancy - abstain, use birth control or get your tubes tied, any of which are cheaper, and simpler and more logical than murdering your baby.
Pro-lifers just REFUSE to get it! Many of them who are from religious/conservative backgrounds are anti-women, anti-progress, and anti-sex. In their myopic minds, they believe that once a woman conceive, she MUST have the child. Well, life does not begin at conception; it begins when the chid is viable outside the uterus. Women have the right to control their reproductive destiny. No women should ever be compelled to endure an unwanted pregnancy which isn't conducive to her emotionally, mentally, and psychologically.
Women have abortion for sound reasons. Many are unprepared emotionally, mentally, psychologically, and socioeconomically for motherhood. No child should be brought into this world where he/she is unwanted or into the worst socioeconomic circumstances. Children have the right to be born into the best of circumstances herein.
Yes, "pro-lifers" speak so much about life. However, they neglect to speak about the quality of life. They DON'T care about the quality of life, just QUANTITY. Yes again, "pro-lifers" rant and rant about people having children once conceived but they do not care about the children after they are born. They are really have tunnel vision as to what happen to the children after they are born. Many unwanted children are abused or worse by their parents. Many are killed and/or abandoned in God knows where. Children know when they are unwanted by their parents. Furthermore, many children put into foundling homes are NEVER adopted, being warehoused. I would rather have an abortion than to cosign a child to the aforementioned fate. Any woman has a right to an abortion.
Also, I would like to add that pro-lifers are also against any type of birth control, except for abstinence. They inherently believe that sex is only for procreation only. Pro-lifers are in fact anti-life for women. They really do not care about women's lives and they ultimately do not care about the lives of the children they advocate bringing into the world.
For example in Communist Romania, Nicolae Ceausescu advocated that people have as many children as possible. Birth control and abortion were outlawed. People had children alright. However, after Ceasescu was disposed, many children were abandoned or placed into orphanages by their parents. Many of these children were unwanted. The plight of these children was broadcasted throughout the world.
I would add that teenaged girls who are/were forced to endure pregnancies had their education curtailed. This means that their life choices were derailed and the resulting child being brought up either in poverty or if not, by her parents. Many mothers who are/were forced to endure an unwanted pregnancy, thus having an unwanted child, LEARNED to hate that child. My second youngest aunt is an example of this. As a teenager, she was forced to endure an unwanted pregnancy, she had to forget attending college, taking a crappy job. She became angry and bitter, lashing out at everybody. She paid cursory attention to the child, leaving it solely the responsibility of her parents to raise. When she later remarried, she abandoned the child. It was obvious that the child was unwanted. Yes, I strongly advocate abortion as no woman should have to endure an unwanted pregnancy and an unwanted child.
Funny you make conservatives the target of your hubpage but apparently could care less about children. That's right babies, the human beings every fetus turns into, let alone the fact every living human being started as a fetus. And you neglect to even mention the three big points made by pro-lifers namely:
1) The vast majority of abortions are performed for solely reasons of convenience, ninety-two percent cited what might be termed "social" or "other" reasons, rather than medical reasons or sexual assault, as the primary basis for their abortions.Frivolity is the rule. http://www.nrlc.org/archive/news/2005/NRL10/NewStu...
2) You have the right to chose, chose to not get pregnant.
3) Abortion is not the only answer for an unwanted baby - adoption is best for all involved, avoids murder (the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another) and enriches the lives of the baby, its adopting parents and multitudes of others who will be a part of and affected by that baby's life in many years to come.
Compelling reasons not to kill your baby, I wonder why you neglected to include them?
Truth is it is legal here but if Espresso10 had his/her way "as a last resort" adoption would come first and it wouldn't be legal for 92% of the people who get abortions. I'm sure espresso10 didn't mean to say that because his/her opinion to just kill anyone who might cause an increase in social problems doesn't jive with last resort, does it.
As usual people like you Nathan just can't tell the whole story because, well someone out there just might see it makes more sense than your thoughts on the issue. Abortion is legal and safely obtainable in this country and for 92% of the people who got it, that's ~ 50 million babies since roe v wade, it was just a frivolous matter of convenience. For those of you who are pro-choice and have kids, when you tuck them into bed at night tell them why they should be thankful that you let them live because it would have been so more convenient for you to have exercised your right to kill them before they knew you.
- AUTHOR
Hi JoanCA
I agree with that analysis. Thanks for stopping by and for the comment.
- AUTHOR
Hi fpherj48,
Thank you for stopping by and commenting. Those are some good point you make there.
- AUTHOR
Express10,
Thanks for dropping by, and some good points in your comment. I have always wondered what the pro-life movement proposes to do for children once they are born. So far, from what I have seen of their arguments, pro-lifers don't care what parents do with their children, only that they have them.
You can't stop abortions from happening. You can only stop them from happening legally and safely. That's why I've never understood the point of the prolife movement. A true prolife movement would be about reducing unwanted pregnancies by ensuring easy access to contraception. There is no other way to stop abortion.
I have previously made my stance on abortion in an HP Q&A.comment...quite clearly. No need to repeat my personal opinion.
The points I make today are simple. Whether Conservative, Liberal or totally NON-political...
Here are few non-disputable FACTS: It needs to be understood, on the subject of abortion; If & when a man opens his mouth to speak on this.....both pro-life and pro-choice WOMEN, plug their ears and shut down their brains to any & all opinions/beliefs.
Undeniably, 98% of the female population, firmly believe NO man can or should SAY a word. (Don't believe me? Do your RESEARCH!) and do it before barking at me!
Where were we? Oh yes...say WOMEN: "This is MY body, MY uterus, 9 months of MY life, and in far too many cases...MY lifetime of raising a child without a visible father nor support of any kind. YOU, Mr. man, may BUTT out!"
I don't mind that Conservatives begrudge paying for contraception....as long as they will ALSO begrudge paying for Viagra.
Never ever will Roe vs Wade be overturned, so STOP continually beating a dead horse.
Please, utilize all of this effort, lecturing& energy......into the improvement of child education/development, Child PROTECTION Services, which at this point and time, have proven to be an embarrassment and JOKE to our great nation. Provide totally FREE contraception to the underprivileged, who are least likely to be able to raise a child with a fraction of a chance at a life that does not lead directly to death or prison.
Get priorities in order, wake up, stick your self-righteousness where it will do YOU the most good.....and then work on what it best for American Society.
If you MUST do away with anything...do away with partial birth abortion, aka as blatant baby slaughter. Aside from this.....Conservative, Liberal, Pro-life, Pro-choice.....hear this. Whether or not to remain pregnant, in the earliest stages, is the SOLE and protected RIGHT of the woman to decide. Period, the end.
TWO very important words: BIRTH CONTROL!!
Abortion in my opinion should be available to all who want it as a last resort. But that is only my opinion. Abortion is a very personal choice to be made ONLY by the parents to be. Not pro-lifers, politicians, etc. What really chafes me is the male politicians adamant that they have the right to choose what potential parents should do with children they are ill prepared to provide for or unfortunately unwanted. Look at the state of this country today and then think of the increase in social problems if abortions were universally outlawed.
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