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Evidently I Hate the United States: A Moment with Bill Reflection

Updated on August 19, 2015

The Impetus for This Article

I had a pretty good friend recently call me un-American. The exact sentence went something like this: “All Liberals are un-Americans.”

It was such a ludicrous statement that I didn’t even know what to say. Finally I told him I was a Liberal, to which he responded, “then you hate America.”

But he wasn’t done. He then proceeded to really get himself worked up, and eventually his voice rose and he was screaming about political issues.

He was screaming!

I was afraid he was going to blow a gasket.

I was also saddened.

How did it come to this in the United States? How can my political beliefs be such a threat to the serenity of an otherwise fairly rational human being? Why was it so important to him that he be right and I be wrong?

Do I look like I hate the United States?
Do I look like I hate the United States? | Source

We See It All the Time, Right?

No, this was not an isolated incident.

Turn on the television and watch some of the political pundits. Read some of the editorials in the newspaper. Hell, stop by the forums on the writing site HubPages. Get into some of the discussions on those forums. I promise you it will eventually become a name-calling shouting match between two polar-opposite viewpoints.

What’s the point?

Why is the name-calling necessary? All Democrats are idiots! All Republicans were dropped on their heads at birth! Greeners don’t care about this country; all they want to do is hug an owl!

Has the level of political debate really been lowered to that of an average elementary school playground?

For that matter, have all levels of debate on any topic been similarly lowered?

Pick your poison: abortion, taxes, religion, immigration, gun control, all guaranteed to bring out the worst in many voting Americans.

I seem to drive some people crazy with my viewpoints
I seem to drive some people crazy with my viewpoints

Where Does This Irrational Behavior Come From?

I have to assume that there is a feeling of being threatened at play here. How else do you explain irrational behavior like that? How are my Liberal beliefs a threat to any of you? Really, I want an answer. This country was built upon the backs of men, and women, of opposing viewpoints, so why do my beliefs suddenly cause otherwise rational human beings to have strokes?

The responses are so out of proportion to the threat as to seem ridiculous.

It is, quite frankly, illogical, insulting and laughable, all at the same time, and that’s not easy to do.

My thoughts go back to 1960. I was twelve years old that year and it was an election year. John F. Kennedy, a Democrat, was running against Richard M. Nixon, a Republican. Two men sitting at opposite ends of the political spectrum, but what I remember as being the bigger issue that year was the fact that Kennedy was a Catholic. I remember one of our neighbors saying that if Kennedy was elected he would seek advice from the Pope. I remember another neighbor severing ties with our family because we were Catholic and that made us….are you ready for this…that made us devil-worshippers.

Again, illogical, insulting and laughable, all at the same time.

Let Me Tell You What Is Definitely Not Going to Work

Allow me to give a tip to those who feel insults and shouting are necessary. You will not convince me of anything by calling me names, nor will you convince me of anything by shouting at me. It just won’t work. In fact, what you are going to accomplish is to broaden the gap between us. Maybe that’s your goal. I don’t know. I’m just telling you, with certainty, that my first response to that kind of political or religious or ideological debate is to tune you out completely.

The only chance, and I mean the absolute only chance, you have of getting me to listen to you is to present your arguments logically, rationally and respectfully. If you can’t bring that to the table then don’t sit down.

If you are a rational human being, you know what I say is true. None of us enjoys being screamed at. None of us enjoys having our patriotism questioned. None of us enjoys being called names. You are every bit as loyal to this country as I am. The fact that we disagree on how this country should be run does not change that fact. I know you love your country, as do I. I’m fine with that. I don’t give a rat’s patootie that you disagree with me. In fact, I welcome it. How incredibly boring it would be if everyone believed as I do.

I can only think of two times in our history when there was near-unanimous agreement on anything….right after Pearl Harbor and right after 9/11. That’s it! All the rest of the time, on all the rest of the topics, this country’s citizens and political representatives have disagreed. And that’s how it should be in this country.

So there is only one logical path to take.

There is room enough for all of us
There is room enough for all of us | Source

A House Divided

President Lincoln told us that a house divided against itself cannot stand. For that time, and that issue, those words held great truth. I would go a step further and say that those words need to be remembered today as well, but in a slightly different vein.

A house divided on issues, today, can most certainly stand. A house unwilling to work for compromise and solutions has no chance of standing.

Here is one point I think we can all agree on: this country, the United States of America, has some serious problems. You may disagree with me about the nature of those problems. You may disagree with me about the cause of those problems. You may even disagree with me about the solution to those problems, but there is little doubt that problems exist, from homelessness to the treatment of veterans to the economy to immigration, there are serious problems to tackle and they need to be tackled by serious people.

Not by playground bullies!

Are you interested in solving these problems or are you interested in calling me names? I sometimes wonder.

In the Meantime

While you consider my last question, I’ll be here in Olympia discussing serious problems with serious people. When I’m done with that I think I’ll go burn the American flag because hey, everyone knows I hate America, and then I think I’ll go sign up with ISIS because hey, everyone knows I’m un-American. Then I think I’ll scream at my wife because she disagreed with me yesterday on a matter, and then I think I’ll go slap some little kids for annoying me when I was trying to take a nap, and then…….

2015 William D. Holland (aka billybuc)

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    • Janine Huldie profile image

      Janine Huldie 21 months ago from New York, New York

      Beautifully said Bill and I am with you unless we can discuss the issues rationally, what is the point?! Seriously, you said a mouthful here and always appreciate your opinion, my friend. Have a great Wednesday now!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Happy Wednesday Janine. Good to have you back with us. I'll visit your blog shortly. Thank you and have a great Wednesday.

    • PurvisBobbi44 profile image

      PurvisBobbi44 21 months ago from Florida

      Hi,

      Together we stand and divided we fall--I love Abe Lincoln. You have your opinion and so does everyone else and that is why we vote on the one we hope is going to help America recover.

      It is like one of my girlfriends from the inter-country---Hicksville--said, " All politicians are liars, it just depends on which liar you like the most."

      What people need to do is their research and it seems everyone and their grandpa is running with two grandmas.

      Tell anyone who talks loud when politics is the subject---that you are sorry you can't hear him/her because you dropped your hearing aid in your morning coffee and cannot find it.

      I am happy I had time this morning and saw your hub first to connect with an old friend. You take care and my love to Bev.

      Bobbi Purvis

      Sharing++++

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Bobbi! I'm glad you connected again with this friend too. Love the quote about politicians. Pretty accurate if you ask me. :) Have a great day, my friend.

    • Don Bobbitt profile image

      Don Bobbitt 21 months ago from Ruskin Florida

      Bill, Great article. This same attitude drives me crazy on a regular basis.

      I can't put my finger on how there are so many more of these 2-dimensional people running around America, and the world for that matter. But, it does seem to me that they are a much larger part of our population.

      i won't go into the groups that are running around pointing fingers, but I do have to take a small swipe at the "Tea Party" movement, the "remove the Confederate flag" movement, and even the "I'm a Democrat (or Republican?) parties.

      You see, in my opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid for it, the labeling of people as being a "whatever" is a sure sign of something lacking in that persons psyche.

      Did they grow up isolated from the realities of living in America? Were they brain-washed by their parents in their youth? Hell, do they only read the left side of the pages in their newspaper?

      As I said, I don't know how it happened. but I always thought that different opinions ere just that, "different opinions". When did opinions become doctrines for confrontation?

      When did you, or I or the any of the others raised on the premise that disagreements were part of a healthy society and with intelligent people eventually coming to a reasonable consensus, become obsolete and "strange"?

      Well, like you, I will keep voting and disagreeing on "what ever I want to, with whomever I want to, when I want to."

      So, have a good day, you damned unconscionably opinionated and strange radical, you!

      DON

    • profile image

      Old Poolman 21 months ago

      Good Morning Bill - Well, proclaiming yourself to be a liberal is a step in the right direction.

      I unfortunately have no idea which I am. I don't even understand what makes one a liberal or a conservative anymore.

      I would like to see someone create a really good checklist so we could find out where we fall on the scale between the two beliefs. I'm reasonably sure very few fall completely into one or the other categories but are a mixture of the two.

      I was registered as an Independent but was forced to change that so I could vote in the last Primary. Does that seem right to you?

      There are hardcores on both sides, but most of us fall somewhere in the middle. I know many who still vote strictly by party line but I assume they do this because that makes it easy. They don't need to do any research on any candidate to find out who they really are if they just vote that way. This may surprise you, but some candidates actually lie about what they believe in and plan to do if elected.

      My advice is just keep your own beliefs and the hell with what others think. You are more American than many because you take the time and put in the effort to keep current with what is really going on. I'll bet you even vote too unlike a huge percentage of our citizens.

    • DeborahNeyens profile image

      Deborah Neyens 21 months ago from Iowa

      I used to love politics. I was a political science major in college and thought I would run for public office someday. I also used to love to debate my youngest brother (who is at the opposite political spectrum from me). But now political discussion pretty much sickens me. Everyone is so polarized and unwilling to look for common ground. I avoid it as best I can.

    • old albion profile image

      Graham Lee 21 months ago from Lancashire. England.

      Hi Bill. President Lincoln was of course correct as are you. Logical argument should always produce a withdrawal or a compromise. Easily said I know but true. Great insight from you as usual.

      Graham.

    • bizarrett81 profile image

      bizarrett81 21 months ago from Maine

      I guess I am "un-American" as well. I am so ashamed of my country at times, and get so angry when I see the amount of ignorance about issues and how many shoulders are shrugged toward waste and greed. There are so many problems that I get overwhelmed-I almost want to shrug my shoulders myself, give up, and move to Norway or something. I'm used to the snow anyways.

      The education system is a joke, to the point of me considering homeschool for my son. Veterans are horribly overlooked, horribly underpaid, and disrespected. I don't agree with many of the endeavors they are sent on, but they should be at least be treated like the heroes they are. The environment is crumbling and not enough people seem to care. We are like one big science experiment. I see comments on FB from people in other countries and it's like we are one big joke.

      I understand that we as Americans do have it better then some other countries. I am grateful that I am a woman who can breathe in peace and have options and opportunities. I truly am. But that doesn't mean I have to like everything about the country, or agree with how it is run.

      What really kills me is the candidates that are leading the polls makes me want to run for the hills and just become a survivalist hermit. 2016 is going to be a circus.

    • whonunuwho profile image

      whonunuwho 21 months ago from United States

      Bill anytime something is missing or wrong with something you love so much we would be tragically wrong to let it go by unaddressed... thanks for caring my friend. whonu

    • bravewarrior profile image

      Shauna L Bowling 21 months ago from Central Florida

      This man's reaction to you and the accusations he threw at you are precisely why I don't discuss religion or politics. For some reason both topics bring the worst out in people. I guess, when you really look at it, that's a concrete indication that something is seriously wrong in River City.

      Now excuse me while this Catholic girl tends to some overdue devil worshiping.

    • CrisSp profile image

      CrisSp 21 months ago from Sky Is The Limit Adventure

      What's going on America?

      I'm sensing an ester of fulminic acid in this hub Bill but I love how you ended it. :) Sorry, that you have been called names. Trust me, I've heard worse than that just because I was expressing my opinion. Well then, we're all entitled to that but hopefully, we can at least agree to disagree with people and stand as one. *punching the moon*

      Ground (not grounded) today and tomorrow and will be hanging out HP in between some household chores. So, see you around.

      Very insightful hub. And yes, thanks for the reminder, we get to exercise our right (to vote) this October. We, the north!

      Love from the sky~

    • mary615 profile image

      Mary Hyatt 21 months ago from Florida

      I try to avoid "talking politics", but I'll just say: I am very concerned (angry) with the direction America is taking. People say they hate Trump, but he really has people thinking, and I think that's a good thing!

    • peeples profile image

      Peeples 21 months ago from South Carolina

      "You don't agree with me so you are bad and I am good" mentality is ruining this country in my opinion. Personally I think having different opinions, debating among ourselves, and ... gasp... even disagreeing with our government are the things that do make us good Americans. Good post! All very true!

    • jackclee lm profile image

      Jack Lee 21 months ago from Yorktown NY

      Billybuc - I am conservative and I wrote many hubs on that topic and I respect other opinions and try to discuss issues without calling names. I get some comments from the other side that are like your friend. It happens when they are blinded by their preconceived notions, and can't get past them. Over the years, I come to realize there are "loaded" words that once it is said, the reader takes on other meanings and stop reading your arguments. "liberal" happens to be one of those loaded word. That being said, our country is in a very state now. It is the fault of our elected officials and the people who voted for them. Some of us are frustrated by the fact that there are so many clueless people. They may not realize it but they are part of the problem.

    • Kylyssa profile image

      Kylyssa Shay 21 months ago from Overlooking a meadow near Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA

      To those who say I hate America because I point out its faults, I say, sometimes a person or group we love needs to have his or its faults pointed out to be aware of them.

      I have to love that person enough for the unpleasant feelings we'll both experience to be worthwhile to me. I have to care about her before I'm willing to make both of us uncomfortable to save her from possible danger or embarrassment or to help her avoid committing acts of unkindness to others. I don't put myself in line for emotional abuse for anyone or anything I don't love.

      Thank you for your insight on the matter. It was, as usual, interesting and thought provoking.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Don, great comment and I thank you...not because you necessarily agree with me, but because you are openminded and understand how a democratic society functions...or is supposed to function. Bravo, my friend. Thanks for stopping by...and, like you, I have no idea how this happened, but it obviously has because I know I'm not dreaming about the time of my childhood.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Good morning Mike! You got me....if pushed against the wall, I would probably say I'm independent as well. I really don't like labels...they are limiting and tend to divide us, and the last thing we need as a country is to be divided at this time in history.

      I like your advise. I think I'll follow it. :)

      Thanks, buddy!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Deb, I'm with you. I won't take part in political discussions...way too nasty for me....and that's sad because there are important issues that need to be discussed.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Graham! i just don't understand the vitriol and unwillingness to consider compromise. Perhaps I never will.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Liz, I understand everything you wrote. There is a fringe group in this country that believes if you don't love everything about this country then you should move...to hell with that. I paid my dues just like everyone else. There are things wrong with this country, and good citizens should step up and be a part of the solution.

      If you move let me know where so we can stay in touch. :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you whonu...I totally agree.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      LOL....great one, Sha! I agree...there is something seriously wrong in River City...and I find it sad that we can't discuss it rationally.

    • BarbaraCasey profile image

      Barbara Casey 21 months ago from St. Petersburg, Florida

      And political pandering escalates the situation, rather than opening things up for discourse.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Cris. Good to see you. What's going on America? I have no idea, but this nation doesn't resemble the one I grew up in, that's for sure.

      Enjoy the ground for a few days, and hugs from Oly

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Mary. I don't hate Trump. At least he has people reacting in some way rather than being totally apathetic.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Milisa! These are serious issues and we need all the sane input we can get to solve them...shouting and name calling is a complete waste of time.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Jackclee, I am in complete agreement with you. As long as we keep electing politicians that do not represent us, the frustration will keep building. We allowed this country to reach this state...and we have to change it.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Kylyssa. I appreciate your insights as well. I love the "love" aspect of your comment. Very good!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Without a doubt true, Barbara. Thank you for mentioning that.

    • fpherj48 profile image

      Paula 21 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Politics & religion. You'd think we sane, intelligent individuals would LEARN to shut the eff up!.....In many cases, I back out of those discussions by making comical remarks or rudely changing the subject.

      However, human nature being as it is, I sometimes get pulled in. I'll be damned if it does not result in fatigue, disappointment, regret and BTW, no further ahead than we were the 2 hours before the battle began!!

      Aw NUTS!! I've decided if we just portray a "psycho," recently escaped.....and claim to be a "Unicornian" whose religion is allegiance to the Skunk God.......very few people will want to talk to us! Best way to stay out of trouble.......and lonely!.....Peace, Paula UP+++tweeted

    • cam8510 profile image

      Chris Mills 21 months ago from St. Louis, MO until the end of June, 2017

      Good one Bill. Serenity Rules.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 21 months ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      You hate the United States. Being a bit ambitious there aren't you Billy. After all there is so much of it.

      Standing on the other side of the pond I will say that I am reluctant to comment. But I will echo the comments of fpherj48 by saying that these people should shut the eff up. Two ways to start a fight is religion and politics.

      Anyway, I am off to see fpherj48 and her unicorn. Apparently if I get there about dusk I can see the fairies feeding it. I hope it's true because if I don't get to see it there is going to be one hell of an argument. Oh. Wait. Isn't that how this all got started. :)

      Peace and tranquility.

    • Carb Diva profile image

      Linda Lum 21 months ago from Washington State, USA

      Good morning Bill, and a beautiful one it is in the Pacific NW.

      When I hear the "my country love it or leave it" crowd I think about what it was like raising my children. Believe it or not, there were times that they did things that were not in their best interests, that were misguided, or (sometimes) just plain stupid. Did I let them blunder on without saying a word, or did I (usually) calmly explain and try to steer them in the proper direction?

      I'm sure you know where I'm headed with this. There are times that our nation, like a child, heads down the wrong path. Does my disagreement with some of the things that our political leaders say and do mean that I HATE my country? On the contrary, I think it shows caring and concern.

      Barry Goldwater said "to disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable."

      Perhaps I am delusional, but I believe that years ago our politicians held strong beliefs but knew that nothing would or could be accomplished if they remained in perpetual gridlock. Our political leaders today seem to have removed the word "compromise" from their vocabulary. They oppose one another with a strict line drawn down the middle of the chambers. "I will not tolerate what you are saying (not because I disagree but because you have a "D" or "R" after your name)." That stubbornness accomplishes nothing.

    • profile image

      Larry Wall 21 months ago

      Bill,

      While I am not writing Hubs any longer, I am reserving the right to comment and my comment is that we are in agreement. When I was finishing college, one of my Uncles asked what I was going to do. I said, try to get a job with a newspaper. "Well, I don't want you to write anything liberal." I told him I wanted to be a news writer, and he did not know how to respond. Politically, I am an independent. I have an adopted son, and I am a convert to Catholicism. I oppose abortion. I am grateful for the ACA or Obamacare. So already I am a conservative and a liberal. I oppose the wall along the Mexican border. That reminds me of Berlin.

      I do not belong to any political party—not because I am afraid to take a stand—it is because both parties have lost tract of the great political tool--the compromise. One of the reasons I quit writing Hubs is because people try to judge people on the legislation they support--before investigating or much less, allolw time to see how it may wors. Legislation can always be amended or repealed if it is bad. Sometimes good opportunities are missed because legislation was delayed. I do not want to write a Hub, but I understand your viewpoint. To confuse people I tell them I am either a moderately conservative liberal or a moderately liberal conservative. I can also take a neutral position while I investigate the issue. It leaves people with a perplexed look on their faces.

      Very good hub,

      Larry

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      The Skunk God, Paula? I can dance with that guy for sure. Unicornian? Which is easier to say, that or Catholic? I'm all about ease...I don't want my life complicated by difficulties of any sort. You should know that by now, Sis!

      :) Thanks as always!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks Chris! Serenity is da bomb!!!!!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Bigblue, you got that right...stay out of discussions about religion and politics and one just might discover that peace and tranquility you speak of. :) Thank you sir!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      True words, Linda. I remember the House Speaker Tip O'Neil....he said anything could be accomplished in Congress over a glass of scotch and a pinch of willingness. Compromise seems to be dead in politics today. Way too much rhetoric for me.

    • The Dirt Farmer profile image

      Jill Spencer 21 months ago from United States

      Well, I hope your friendship survived your good friend's meltdown. We have a conservative family member who frequently wants to talk politics, even knowing that we disagree with her about . . . well, almost everything. She always becomes angry, emotional, and sometimes even cries. It can be uncomfortable!

    • Larry Rankin profile image

      Larry Rankin 21 months ago from Oklahoma

      This strikes right at the heart of human stupidity. Does it make me a bad American because I choose to question, choose to care, and choose to fight for change? Hell no! It makes me a better American!!

      Show me where in a democracy that it is written the idea is to follow ideologies blindly and do what people who are deemed "important" usually based on a criteria of one element, "money," say I have to.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Larry. I appreciate the fact that you took time to leave an excellent comment. The older I get the more I detest labels. The only reason I used one (Liberal) in this article was to make a point.....I am Bill Holland. Liberal, Democrat, Independent, it makes no difference to me. I am an independent thinker who does research on issues before he opens his mouth....and I expect the same respect I give to everyone else.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Uncomfortable to say the least, Dirt Farmer. We have several of those in our family. I'm not sure how they passed the entrance exam. LOL We just agree to disagree and then talks sports.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Larry, sadly, I'm seeing more and more of this lately. He who shouts loudest will win, or he who shouts loudest is the most intelligent. Meanwhile the populace watches Honey Boo Boo and takes her words as the gospel.

      Sad!

      Thank you!

    • Buildreps profile image

      Buildreps 21 months ago from Europe

      That was a damn good speech, Bill. Well said. You know how I think about you. I would vote for you if you would run for president. I know you don't want, but your country needs guys like you.

    • profile image

      DebMartin 21 months ago

      Like you Bill, I seem to be experiencing more name-calling and outright anger when I express my political views. As in most situations where someone blows a gasket and resorts to intimidation, it usually means that person feels threatened in some way.

      So in pondering what the threat might be, I've come to believe that many in the world are becoming less politically literate and more politically ignorant. And when one feels like they don't know enough about whatever they are claiming, at least not enough to get into an intelligent conversation or debate, they intimidate instead.

      It's just plain hard these days to get good info. There are too many sound-bites out there and way too much social media propaganda. Having a good political education is hard work these days.

      I have a friend with different political beliefs mine. He sends out almost daily emails repeating something he got in an email or saw online that is just plain wrong! I've had to ask him to remove me from his mailing list. I've sent him numerous times to snopes.com to try to correct him in gentle ways. It just makes him angrier. I think because he feels unsure of himself, insecure.

      It's hard to have a good political conversation these days. Half the so-called "facts" people bring to the table just are not true.

    • Froggy213 profile image

      Greg Boudonck 21 months ago from On A Mountain In Puerto Rico

      I just have to say Bill, I am closer to the Conservative side than Liberal--YOU COMMIE!

      Just jokin!!

      I love you man, and I really do not care what your political aspirations are, as I know you don't care about mine. We are Americans...Free to think, free to have our opinions....

      But really now....Liberal????

      When is the next Gay Rights parade????

      LOL-

      Great hub my friend..

    • jeff61b profile image

      jeff61b 21 months ago

      This is an excellent, meaningful, well written hub. I write political articles intended to inspire discussion and debate.

      All I seem to get from those who disagree with me are vulgar insults and angry epithets. There is little attempt to engage in meaningful discussion of the issues.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Buildreps. The U.S. needs something different and that's for sure. What we are doing right now isn't working too well. I appreciate your very kind words.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Deb, all you say is true. We have seen a dumbing down of American. It's easier to shout than to do research, and by research I don't mean watching Fox News, or any other lopsided reporting source. Like you said, being informed takes effort, and I'm just not seeing much effort these days. Thanks for a great comment.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Greg, no wonder we are friends. I love your sense of humor. Too funny, buddy. I can work with people like you any old day. Put us in a room and we could accomplish something for the welfare of all citizens.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Jeff, thank you. I will never understand it. I love to have political discussions, but there has to be a foundation of respect or I'll walk away from the table.

    • MizBejabbers profile image

      MizBejabbers 21 months ago

      Bill, I so understand your frustration with the situation we have in this country right now. I’m sorry your friend, or is he an ex-friend right now, was so narrow-minded and obtuse that he mistreated you. However, it is something that we all face every day. I’ve lost a “fair-weather” friend or two, and had to unfriend an equally obnoxious Facebook person. I think I could be called a “middle-of-the-roader” or a Clinton Democrat in most, but not all, cases.

      Believe it or not, looking back at history it has always been this way in our country. People were actually shot, knifed, or killed in duels over political controversy. Our state probably wasn’t the only one in the nation that had a legislator killed by another in a political brawl on the floor of the legislature. I think the difference today is we have the media and social media to keep us inflamed. It is so in our collective face.

      Which brings us to another thought: We should be the most politically educated and astute population in the history of this country, but history does repeat itself. What a shame. Congrats on another great hub.

    • m abdullah javed profile image

      muhammad abdullah javed 21 months ago

      Not that often we use to see your political view point, this time with a reference to one of your good friends you have beautifully dealt with the irrational behavior and a sectarian look and how it effects the mind set. I agree with you it won't work in anyway. I assert that you look like loving America rather you are it's proudest son. Thanks Bill Sir for sharing an eye opener with us.

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      Linda Crampton 21 months ago from British Columbia, Canada

      This is an interesting hub that is also sad, Bill. As you say, it's fine that we have different views, but we need to treat each other with respect. I hope you and your friend remain friends, despite his anger.

    • clivewilliams profile image

      Clive Williams 21 months ago from Nibiru

      humbug....politics is just a way to control the mass by implementing sick laws and strategies. What do you notice about all poltitions. They just love to talk. They wil talk all eternity about what should be done and what they will do, but when they get elected they all have amnesia.

    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Fuller 21 months ago from Southern Illinois

      What is a liberal? I'm not kidding. I really want to know. I've been called a liberal since I cast my very first vote for Kennedy. Does giving to the needy make one a liberal? Believing in equality for all people should not be labeled liberal thinking. Of course anyone who knows me will know that I am going to vote for Hillary so I guess that makes me a liberal or an idiot. I choose to think she's got what it takes to get us back on two feet and of course my main man Bill will be there to see her through the rough times and maybe we'll see more money in our pockets. My opinion! You're a good man Bill!

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      Marlene Bertrand 21 months ago from Northern California, USA

      And, Bill that is why no one in our family can discuss politics or religion in our family. Talk about a house divided... we were all raised by the same parents, yet we all have differing opinions about everything political and religious. Our family unit consists of one who is an ordained minister, one who is a deacon, one who is an atheist and everything in between. There has been shouting, name calling bouts, and downright physical encounters just because one disagreed with the other. When someone begins a conversation consisting of religion or politics, it is best not to comment. Change the subject. Or better, walk away like you just did not hear them talking to you.

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      Jack Lee 21 months ago from Yorktown NY

      Always exploring - It is liberals like you that drives conservatives nuts. Why do you think Hillary would make a good President with all that baggage...? Can't people be honest and use their common sense? I don't mind people with opposing opinions but they need to back up their believes with facts, not hope and change... I have a liberal relative and even he would not support Hillary. We disagree on most issues but on this we agree.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you MizB! We can only hope that one day we are the most politically educated and astute population in the history of this country. I look forward to that day happening. :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you m abddullah. I once did quite a few political articles but decided it depressed me too much. :) I appreciate you stopping by and sharing your thoughts. You are a kind man.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Alicia, that horse left the barn, but I have many more friends who are much more rational. Thank you!

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      Brian Leekley 21 months ago from Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA

      In the terminology of Marshall Rosenberg, you are unlikely to get what you need for satisfaction if you use jackal language (the language of attack in the game of Who's Right?) and you might succeed if you use giraffe language (the language of gladly giving and receiving from the heart in the game of Making Life Wonderful). He has nonviolent communication workshops on YouTube.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      True words, Clive. The campaign promises seem to be forgotten as soon as they swear into office. Reality at times hurts. Humbug for sure, buddy. Thank you!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Ruby! The label thing is interesting. I've always been a Democrat. Is that synonymous with Liberal? Some seem to think so. I much prefer no labels, but I wanted to make a point here and I think I've done that.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Marlene, I love the fact that houses have a front door and a back door. That way you always have an exit no matter where you are when one of these arguments arises. :) Thank you! I'll be family reunions are interesting in your household. :)

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you jackclee Im....Ruby is entitled to her opinion, as are you. As long as it remains cordial and respectful I welcome both points of view.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Brian. I happen to subscribe to that theory. I'll check out those videos.

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      William Leverne Smith 21 months ago from Hollister, MO

      Thank you for saying what so many of us feel. I'll not try to add to it. Hope you feel better, just seeing all the fine comments you have received. ;-)

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Bill and I do, but I always feel like I'm preaching to the choir with my followers. :)

    • profile image

      suzettenaples 21 months ago

      Two words: Donald Trump! That is what has happened to America and I don't mean that in a good way .

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      Paula 21 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Bro...What's wrong with you? "Unicornian" is my Political affiliation, not my religion. Those of us who worship the Skunk God, embrace the teachings of Pee-U-ism. It's a pretty liberal religion.

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      breakfastpop 21 months ago

      Bily,

      I love your fervor. I don't tolerate screaming either, but any conversation I have had with people who (let's say) adore Hillary is just hopeless. Let the facts speak for themselves. As for being liberal or conservative, people I know including myself are conservative on some issues and liberal on others. If only we could discuss things like intelligent human beings. When discussions about politics turn ugly, i turn away. It is a complete waste of time. I suggest you do the same.

    • DzyMsLizzy profile image

      Liz Elias 21 months ago from Oakley, CA

      Very well put.

      Then color me a like-minded, 'bleeding heart' liberal as well. I believe in the rights of the PEOPLE, not the corporations; I believe it is time for 'WE THE PEOPLE' to take back our country from the screamers, the fear-mongering extremists, the oligarchs, the obstructionists-- who would destroy our form of government.

      I don't even believe in religion at all; I'm an unabashed atheist. That doesn't mean I am a devil-worshipper, for I don't believe in such an entity as that, either. I'm okay with people believing what they want. I'm NOT okay with them trying to shove it down my throat, or into our laws, in direct violation of our constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state.

      Yeah, I hear you Bill..loud and clear, and I agree wholeheartedly.

      Voted up and interesting.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Suzette. I'm still shaking my head at him leading the polls. I keep thinking I'll wake up and it will all be a nightmare.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Sis, I'm howling. That's all I'll say...I'm howling.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Pop, it's so rare I get drawn into a political debate of any kind. If I were working on some panel that could make substantive change then yes, I would debate....but people online? Really? I see no purpose in it and yes, I walk away from it. Thanks for being here my conservative friend.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Liz, that's as worked up as I've seen you...I love it. I'm much like you. I really don't care what others believe. It doesn't affect my life at all if the next door neighbor worships aardvarks as the Supreme Being....but like you, try and shove it down my throat and I care very much, and tell me my opinion is silly or worthless and we'll have a long chat, and it won't be a friendly one. :) Thanks my friend.

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      Audrey Howitt 21 months ago from California

      Well said Bill! And unfortunately, I think sometimes it needs to be said--

    • DzyMsLizzy profile image

      Liz Elias 21 months ago from Oakley, CA

      LOL, Bill--Oh, I can get very worked up--that was only a warm-up! ;-)

      I am capable of either gutter language, or using $5 word substitutes to call people out so they won't think I used gutter language.. ;-)

      I wish I could have the opportunity to address a joint session of Congress...

    • Jackie Lynnley profile image

      Jackie Lynnley 21 months ago from The Beautiful South

      I have been done the same way Bill and it is so frustrating when you cannot talk to someone. I naturally grew up to become what my parents were but about the time I started reading the bible for myself to see what I think it means I did politics too! That is what America is all about but this new movement seems to be pushing us all to be the same or else. These people are so cemented in hate if you disagree it is scary!

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      Sally Gulbrandsen 21 months ago from Norfolk

      Hi Billy,

      I don't much care for confrontation and I don't much care for people shouting, but that is not to say that I don't care. I try always to be respectful of the opinions held by others, even if I don't always agree with them. It is sometimes easier to just walk away, people such as that one will never change.

      Sally

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      beta5909 21 months ago

      I came back to HP to respond on this issue. I felt lead to do so, but not sure why. Maybe some will get me, and for those who don't: no problem.

      I've observed that while the masses fall out with each other along party lines and want to kill each other with words, the respective politicians that represent them, have kiss and tell negotiations, become strange bedfellows, play games, eat cookies and have fun parties together. Some even become best friends and delight in finding they have common bloodlines.

      I said "some" politicians(dare I say many, for I'd be flogged) It seems to be all about pork those politicians love to fill up on. They love the yummy pig and claiming turf with big jugs of power. And yes, I've heard: well that's how politics work. Don't agree: but that's another story.

      But my point is : why can't we divided masses find a mustard seed of common ground and get out of the gladiator arena. Kumbaya... ( yes I've heard that response too my position before. Doesn't bother me)

      So personally I've learned to refrain from political labels. ( admittedly, conditioning is hard to overcome sometimes) I prefer to think and represent myself, knock on wood, as a "human being" first, who happens to live locally in America, but non-locally in the spirit.

      It's been my experience that good quality political conversations can often fall short when die hard identities are chosen over being human. Not selling this as a solution for anyone. Just saying.

      Thanks BillyBuc for sharing your passion and story. Always enjoy your posts even though I'm only here in spirit.

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      WillStarr 21 months ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      If it's any consolation Bill, I too have been attacked (sometimes viciously) for my political beliefs, and I'm a conservative. For that reason, I have decided to forgo any political Hubs, mine or those of other, because many former readers no longer follow me out of anger over what I believe.

      Lesson learned.

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      Efficient Admin 21 months ago from Charlotte, NC

      Add Your Comment..I am right there with you Bill - if you come to the table ranting and screaming like a maniac I will go find the stable adults to hang out with. I think people in our country seem to be getting angrier and more arrogant as time goes on, unfortunately.

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      Donna Brown 21 months ago from Alton, Missouri

      One of the best investments that my little conservative but ever did was become a liberal arts major in college. I think everyone should have to learn to write essays that tell not only your own view but rationally describes the opposite view.

      I think every child in school should take debate (like two of my three children) in school where they have to take different sides of an issue including one that they might not agree with naturally.

      Not to say that I don't have a definite opinion, (you know I do), but that I can concede that others have a difference in opinion and I respect that opinion.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Now, Audrey, if we could only change some minds with articles like this one. :) Thanks for being here. I'm in good company.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Oh Liz, you and I would get along famously in our garden conversations. The gutters would flow. LOL

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Jackie, there does seem to be a rather strong element of hate involved. It's just not in me, and I refuse to surround myself with hateful people. Thank you for saying that.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      I agree with you, Sally. I have reached the point where it is much easier on my blood pressure to just walk away. We'll live much longer that way, my friend.

      bill

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      Eric Dierker 21 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Dang this reminds me of the "good old" days when I was young and full of piss and vinegar and had all the answers, cocktail in one hand and some kind of red meat in the other. Black and white and no gray. I could spend all my energy chasing a buck and outdoing the Jones's. Did not have to think just yell louder with more expletives. The good news about caring more is that you think more. The bad news is you think more and things ain't so easy.

    • JayeWisdom profile image

      Jaye Denman 21 months ago from Deep South, USA

      That sound you hear in your imagination, Bill, is me applauding long and loudly. It's sad that this country is polarized by politics with no meeting point or compromises in sight. The sad result is that the country and most of its citizens suffer while a very few get what they want (regardless of how it affects others).

      At least, living in the state of Washington, you are not totally surrounded by die-hard extreme right-wingers. Here in bright red Mississippi, I certainly stand out: a senior citizen, white, female, progressive liberal Democrat. I have an agreement with family members and friends not to discuss politics (or religion), so this certainly limits conversational topics for the next 1 1/2 years. I'm afraid my car will be rear-ended any day when a Tea Party Republican sees my bumper sticker: VOTE FOR BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT, 2016! (But I'm not scared enough to remove it.)

      I was away from HP for a bit--a combination of work projects and minor health issues--so the new format comes as a surprise. I'll try to spend more time on the site soon, and have two ideas for hubs germinating in my brain that I will (hopefully) develop into articles soon and publish.

      Take care - Jaye

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      Ruchira 21 months ago from United States

      Your article makes me ponder over a sticker I saw on a car some days back...it was a mercedes and still he was not happy. This country gave him lots to be able to afford one...and yet the bitterness.

      Can't understand such people, Bill

      Point well made though :)

    • mckbirdbks profile image

      mckbirdbks 21 months ago from Emerald Wells, Just off the crossroads,Texas

      Hi Bill. The screaming and shouting and bullying is a tactic. "They" do not want any voice except those shouting their beliefs to be heard. And we have all heard so much nonsense that it makes you wonder 'how come they aint shar'n the good stuff'

      We are a politically immature country. We are war mongers who believe in the sanctity of life. We are the richest country in the world with 17 trillion in unfunded liabilities. We are overall a mess. From my chair, 'the people' did not have much to do with the mess, but we will have to clean it up.

    • drbj profile image

      drbj and sherry 21 months ago from south Florida

      Hi, Bill. Will Rogers once said that the greatest thing about America is that anyone can be elected president. It's also the worst thing. I could not agree with him more as I watch the posturing and empty speeches on TV and in the news.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 21 months ago from Orange County California

      Billy

      Scrolling down through the comments, I got a finger cramp. and .

    • Michael-Milec profile image

      Michael-Milec 21 months ago

      Hello Bill.

      Now, after all dust settled, everything is clear. Your article is one I was anticipating to have confirmed what was known to me: Listen, and hear what the people talk or write and you will know, it is spiritual force behind "my opinion". There aren't two and a half opposite parties people tend to take pride in defending their membership. Not at all.We do live among people who are liars and the other ones ; the deceived ones would like everyone to be like them, while those with the peace within would excuse themselves for more urgent need " I have to go to bathroom"- instead to continue in a subject none of participant knowledgable nor given authority to make impact in given matter.

      ( No wonder that my frequent remark "I don't care " cuts conversation short, because- and I finish my quotation " because I do care for more important...") Rarely if ever someone asks , what you mean by "more important." You already know my friend what I mean.

      Liberal or not, may good Lord bless and protect you even more.

      PS , has anything been changed about voting ?

    • Faith Reaper profile image

      Faith Reaper 21 months ago from southern USA

      Exactly ...How can my political beliefs be such a threat to the serenity of otherwise fairly rational human beings ... been there too, dear Bill! I think it goes on either side of the spectrum for sure. I don't like to call myself Democrat or Republican because I vote for the person who I think is best for the office in my mind ...an arduous task nowadays though.

      As to your "Pick your poison" and I hear the name calling coming: abortion (Bill, I am so thankful you are even here and that your mother gave you up for adoption as opposed to having you killed ...), taxes (When will they ever understand you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip!), religion (Praise the Lord God for His many blessings and love for all of us sinners.), immigration ... pass, gun control (Shocker here ...I really can't stand the feel of a 9mm in my hand for it represents nothing but death. However, I will tell you right now, don't ask me to choose between protecting myself and my family from some psychopath, rapist, child abuser and so on, as it is an easy choice for me ...enough said ...except I know I will never have to do such when I call on the name of the Lord who will protect me in my time of trouble ...okay, here comes the name calling just because of my beliefs.

      Peace

    • Shyron E Shenko profile image

      Shyron E Shenko 21 months ago from Texas

      Bill, well put! This reminds me of the time my husband was in a store and was talking politics to someone in the store and a little man came up and stepped on my husband's toes on purpose because he did not like his politics. My husband told the little man to name one thing that he said that was not true, and a cheer went up from onlookers, and the little man could not.

      This is a great hub from a great American.

      A lot of people treat the war between the two political parties as if it is a sporting event and don't realize that these folks are in the political arena for the money and the power.

      Blessing to you my friend and thank you for writing this.

    • DDE profile image

      Devika Primić 21 months ago from Dubrovnik, Croatia

      America is a troubled place just like most of the world. Thank you.

    • profile image

      Larry Wall 21 months ago

      It is 1:20 a.m., so naturally I am awake. Here is an idea. We well everyone who is not satisfied, find a country where they want to live. If they can get permission to move permanently to that country, find a job, learn the language, and all the other things, we will let one person from that country come here in place of each person, who thinks the country is so bad. I think Paris and Rome are booked up, so it will have to be less exotic places.

      Of course this is a fantasy, because the people who do not like it here could leave, but they continue to stay. There must be something about being an American that offers some attraction--it may be that free speech thing--much of the stuff said on Hub Pages could not be written for public view in many other countries.

    • Dr Billy Kidd profile image

      Dr Billy Kidd 21 months ago from Sydney, Australia

      Americans, in general, are anti-intellectual. Even educated folks are mostly literate only in their chosen profession.

      Now there's the Koch brother's anti-education movement. The purpose of which is make the sheep more easily herded.

      There's also the movement to divide and conquer America politically.

      And politics are run by the wealthy to make sure the upper 10% keep getting 90% of the income. So the media tells you who to hate and feeds the fish on bogus information. This keeps it all in place! This has made hatred a family value.

      No one asks "what would Jesus do?" And they call America a Christian nation. Wow.

    • moonlake profile image

      moonlake 21 months ago from America

      I would like to be half liberal and half conservative, but I guess it's impossible. I hate going on trips with ladies and we're having a nice lunch and they start on politics with no concern how some of us feel they start talking and think everything they say is right and we all agree.They just take it for granted. I have to keep my mouth closed just to keep from an argument starting.

      The trip has been ruined. I'm also sick of politics on facebook.

      I believe the media has a lot to do with all the hatred going around. It's kind of scary.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 21 months ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      In the UK the BBC has a news channel an every Saturday morning they have writers and journalists, many of them foreign journalist who are based in the UK, sit around a table and discuss news events of the week.

      One programme included a Russian journalist who, during a discussion which was getting heated, decided to call one of the other guest a liberal. Now in Russia this is regarded as an insult. Imagine his surprise when her reaction was to clap her hands and cheer. For her it was not an insult but actually a badge of honour.

      So next time someone tells you you are a liberal thank them warmly and see what reaction you get.

    • MsDora profile image

      Dora Isaac Weithers 21 months ago from The Caribbean

      Bill, you made the point effectively. Pet peeves distract attention from the big picture. Now more than ever, Americans need to get serious and work together for solutions.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      beta, a "mustard seed of common ground"....doesn't sound like much, does it? Fairly easy to do, right? Then why in the world do we fight each other constantly and eat our young in the process? I love your line about those politicians being all about pork. Great comment all the way around, my friend. Thank you!

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Will, I don't know why that surprises me, but it does. A writing site where writers stop following writers because of politics? If there is logic there I fail to see it.

      Thank you! I'll be by to read your short story soon.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Admin, and it is arrogance based on ignorance, and that is an amazing combination. :) Thank you for the visit.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Donna, going to college is the best thing I've ever done. There I learned to think for myself and to do research before speaking. Thanks for reminding me of that.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      No they ain't, Eric, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing in the final analysis, as you well know. Thanks, buddy!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Jaye, it's good to have you back among us. Thanks for the comment....liberal Democrat in Mississippii? Now you'll want me to believe pigs can fly. :) I happen to have the same bumper sticker, my friend. I keep good company.

      Talk to you soon

      bill

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      I can't either, Ruchira. I guess my job is not to understand them but to allow them. :) Thank you!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Mike, there is so much truth in your comment that it gives me a headache. LOL Yes, we will be cleaning up for quite some time, I'm afraid.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Isn't that the truth, drbj! I swear, before this is over, the Republican candidates will eat each other's young.

      Thanks as always

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Sorry about that, Brad!

      Not really, but I had to say something. :)

      Thanks for being here.

    • tillsontitan profile image

      Mary Craig 21 months ago from New York

      Vanilla and chocolate damn it! That's why we have choices. How sad is it, in this country and in this day and age people cannot discuss the two most important things in their lives, politics and religion! Alas, it is true. Rather than lose friends and start verbal wars those two subjects need to be avoided at all costs.

      Having passion about what you believe is great, stuffing it down someone else's throat or telling them they're crazy because they don't believe in what you do, not so great, dare I say crazy?

      Heaven help us out of this mess. (No religion invoked.)

      I don't know what happened to the voting buttons. This is the third hub I've visited today with no buttons. Have they been removed? I even tried using different Internet providers and still no buttons.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Michael my friend yes, I know what you mean. I love your response...."I don't care." Perfect. As for your question at the end...at least in recent memory....very little has been changed. This political dance continues, the music never stops, only the dancers change.

      blessings always

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Faith, any name calling on this site will be quickly deleted. Thank you for sharing your beliefs. I'm your friend and I'll watch your back all the way. Count on it!

      blessings and hugs coming your way

      bill

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      It is indeed, DDE! Thanks for stopping by.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Shyron! The thing I have noticed in these debate and shouting matches is that logic has little to do with any of it...there is an animalistic need to be louder than the other participants, and a sad need to always be right and be agreed with. The concept of working together for a solution is never even considered. How are we supposed to ever solve problems if that is the case?

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Larry, all great points. Freedom of speech carries with it a responsibility, of course: it means I have to be willing to give the same freedom to others no matter how much their opinions upset me.

      Thanks for your thoughts.

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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Billy, at first glance, you comments would seem to be over-the-top and inflammatory...but I happen to believe them as I've thought the same things over the past few decades. I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but I do believe big business would be quite happy if all Americans were as stupid as sheep.

      Thanks for a great comment.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      moonlake, I definitely think the media has much to do with the hatred going around. In the old days it was called yellow journalism....the purpose of which is to stir people up into a frenzy. It's working.

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 21 months ago from london

      Well Bill,

      For some it is easier to break than to build. Breaking is an act of insecurity and fear, but that's where they feel some sense of security, and you and I won't shift them. Not even with your immaculately written, well reasoned and logical Hub. Sad Bro, but keep up the Faith! Much Love.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      BigBlue, I love it. What a great story. Thanks for sharing that.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Dora, I couldn't agree more. This is time for serious people who are serious about solutions....you said it perfectly. Thank you!

    • Sparklea profile image

      Sparklea 21 months ago from Upstate New York

      Billy Buc you nailed the whole point in your opening statements: "Why was it so important to him that he be right and I be wrong?" I did not have time to read ALL these excellent comments but I do want to put in my 2 cents here: My personal opinion is that we are ALL entitled to have an opinion...BUT it is a mistake to get upset with those who may not agree with us. Your friend was upset because he could not deal with the way YOU felt...he HAD to be RIGHT...therefore YOU were wrong. And this is why we see people arguing and bellowing on television, complaining in the newspapers...They are screaming inside: "Agree with ME! I am RIGHT, YOU are wrong." And therefore that makes them feel more important. I have learned the hard way that you cannot change what a person thinks. I totally justify why your friend made you feel sad. But, the good part of what happened is the result of your writing this spectacular hub that has brought on a terrific response. I, for one, have so darn much respect for you because you speak up, you are honest, full of heart and integrity, and so loved by so many. I hope your friend apologizes. I maybe should not say this, but I wonder why a true friend would talk to you that way. You don't deserve it. God bless always, Sparklea :)

    • phoenix2327 profile image

      Zulma Burgos-Dudgeon 21 months ago from United Kingdom

      Sunk to the level of the elementary playground? I wasn't aware it was ever above it. If only these same people put as much energy into being part of the solution...what an interesting world it would be.

      Nice one, Bill.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 21 months ago from Orange County California

      Bill

      I tried again but

    • social thoughts profile image

      social thoughts 21 months ago from New Jersey

      Another awesome hub! Like you, I never understood the point of name-calling as a form of argument. A real argument takes information to back up why you feel a certain way. Also, like you, I never understood this "un-American" claim so many throw around. I've never called a Republican "un-American" just because I disagree with them. Maybe, it's because here in America we're just a tad too sheltered, and most of us want enough pride in our country to believe we're entirely different than other countries, which unfortunately isn't entirely true. We're just better at hiding it. Anyway, awesome hub. Did you disable the ratings or was that done by HubPages? I'd definitely "up" if I had the chance.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Mary, obviously I agree with everything you said...and chocolate is my choice. :)

      I don't know what happened to the voting buttons. I noticed that yesterday and thought I was going blind. :)

      Thanks as always, my friend.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      I agree with you totally, Manatita...easier to break than build...I love that line.

      blessings always my peaceful friend.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Lea, I agree with you in your last statement...a true friend wouldn't care how I felt, and that is one lesson I took from that encounter. If we are only friends if we agree with each other then we were never really friends.

      Thank you for your kind friendship. You are greatly appreciated.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Zulma. There are quite a few days when I think our society is still on that playground and can't find its way off. :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Brad, you are a brave man and intrepid. :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks Kailey. I'll meet you in the coffee shop in a little while. :) No, I didn't disable the ratings...I think HP got tired of them. :)

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 21 months ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      Never had anyone called Un British. You can do things which are Un British, such as winning at sports and then boasting about it. To get around that we would lose but be very sporting about it. We have tried winning and being sporting about it but that just left us confused.

      We keep getting right wing politicians talking about British values, which for them means having lots of money which you can give to their political party and send your children to private schools. As far as I am concerned it means going out for a drink on a Friday night and having a curry on the way home.

    • annart profile image

      Ann Carr 21 months ago from SW England

      Apologies for being a bit late on this one, bill!

      It's just the same here and I suppose the world over. Why can't people be civil and argue a point respectfully? I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they feel threatened; why do they fell that? - because they're insecure or perhaps unable to express themselves. However, any decent human being should be able to talk without losing control.

      We see people on the television getting hot under the collar; we see politicians yelling at others in the street when they're confronted.

      As you say, when a country comes together, things improve for a while, against a common cause. It's an awful thing to say but it seems only wars and violence get people to come together to try to fight it - is that an oxymoron? Crazy world!

      Common decency has to win out in the end or we're all out for the count.

      On that note, I hope you have a soothing Sunday, bill!

      Great hub, great message. Wish I could share it with all the politicians here and everywhere.

      Ann :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      We hear the same thing here, BigBlue....American values for the middle class. Politicians love to say that, as if they have any clue what middle class looks like.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Ann. I'm done with my rant and I am having a soothing Sunday. We'll do a little purging around here and then we're going to a neighborhood fair which should be loads of fun.

      Enjoy your day and thank you, as always.

      bill

    • Genna East profile image

      Genna East 21 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      There is a kind of madness that seems to have taken over people when it comes to politics and labels, and "us versus them." I'm an Independent, but this means that I'm a "wishy-washy no-mind who doesn't have the character to take a stand." (True story; this is what one of my Conservative friends told me not too long ago.)

      And you are quite right; regardless from which side of the aisle the negative epithets are hurled, this behavior is irrational. If they only knew how this makes them look to others. To me, it's like watching "The Exorcist"...I keep waiting for their heads to spin around. All of this stems from ignorance and fear that is pandered to by certain politicians and media pundits or "talking heads." (No pun intended.)

      You love America, my friend. And I'll stand by that with every cognizant, sentient thought this "wish-washy no-mind" can muster :-)

      Happy Sunday.

    • annart profile image

      Ann Carr 21 months ago from SW England

      You're welcome, bill. Hope you enjoyed the fair.

      Ann :)

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Genna, your opening statement that there is a kind of madness taking over people is right on in my opinion. I hope it changes to positive energy soon because I don't like this at all.

      Thank you as always for leaving such a meaningful and insightful comment.

      bill

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      We did, Anna! Thank you!

      bill

    • aviannovice profile image

      Deb Hirt 21 months ago from Stillwater, OK

      Like Gilda Radner used to say, "It's always something," and it is. It would be nice if we could all get along by simply agreeing that we won't agree on everything.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      That would be nice, wouldn't it, Deb? Oh well....we live and learn...hopefully. :) Thank you!

    • Frank Atanacio profile image

      Frank Atanacio 21 months ago from Shelton

      this country always have its shares of im right and your wrong, but that's what makes this country great... who said I'd let you say anything you want about this country and defend what you have to say whether you're right or wrong? hmm great reflection my friend

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Frank and you are absolutely correct...freedom of speech means I have to allow you to say something that will make my blood boil...because we are all Americans.

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 21 months ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      Bill

      I've always seen myself as being "Right wing" in politics here, but in the USA my politics would mostly sit in the "Left wing" camp! (pro healthcare, pro gun control, ok not so hot on abortion but the rest I'd go with)

      It was Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government, EXCEPT FOR ALL THE OTHERS" (Okay, he'd just lost the 1945 election where Britain said thank you for his exceptional leadership by booting him out of office).

      I agree with you, we need debate to take on the problems we face, we might not see 'eye to eye' but at least we can respect and work together.

      Great thoughts though.

      By the way my latest hub is about some Americans who 'broke ranks' risked jail in the USA and became heroes we can all say thank you to!

      Blessings

      Lawrence

    • dahoglund profile image

      Don A. Hoglund 21 months ago from Wisconsin Rapids

      The trouble with terms like liberal vs conservative is that the meaning keep changing. I am somewhat in tune with President Reagan, although I was not a supporter of his at the time. When he said that he did not leave the democrat party, it left him I knew exactly what he meant. My values are pretty much what they have always been, but they are now labeled differently. One of the best teachers I had in college was a member of the socialist party, but he would probably be considered a conservative now. He got a bit of notoriety in Minneapolis in the 1960's because he publicly said that all views should be represented by speakers at the university.

      That was pretty liberal then, it would be called conservative now.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks for your input, Lawrence. Sorry I'm so late to comment. We were trying to winterize our farm before the cold weather and rains hit....and we did. I did see your article and it was a dandy.

      bill

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you dahoglund....sometimes you can't tell the players without a program in politics. :) You are right of course....the labels seem to change with the times. I know who I like at this moment but I would be hard-pressed to tell you what their "political philosophy" is.

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 21 months ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      Bill

      Following on from one comment earlier. Probably the two best Presidents the USA had in the twentieth century were both 'liberal'

      FDR was a Democrat (four times elected, pulled the US out of the great depression as well as through WW2)

      Then there was JFK!

      By the way talking about not knowing the party without the program, how to handle Churchill? He started off conservative (right wing) moved to the Liberal party (centre left) then back to the 'Tories' and finally in WW2 was put in charge of a coalition but only because he was the ONLY ONE LABOUR (left wing) would support but we all knew exactly what he stood for!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Great point about Churchill, Lawrence. I had forgotten his flip-flops over time.....we could use a bit of his grit and intelligence about now.

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 21 months ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      But it wasn't him who changed! He still held the same values at the end of his career as he did in the begining! It was the parties that changed!

      Lawrence

    • Lady_E profile image

      Elena 21 months ago from London, UK

      Oh, you look like you are loving the United States in that photo. A very interesting read. I am not good with politics, so can't comment much on it. However, I hope Donald Trump will not be the next US President. America will be better in your hands or Hilary Clinton's. You have all the qualities for the job and Bev would make a brilliant First Lady. :-)

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Interesting, Lawrence. Thanks for that clarification.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Lady E, I may not have all the qualities....my vote can't be purchased. :) There are many of us here who would consider moving to another country if Trump were voted President. :) Thank you!

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 21 months ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      I would like to point out that although Churchill was Prime Minister of the wartime coalition government it was his deputy Clement Attlee who actually ran the government.

      It was because Churchill was so out of touch with what the British wanted he was comprehensibly defeated in the 1945 election. Ironic when you realise the his ability to understand what people wanted.

      Churchill was good at rhetoric and PR but not so much as a PM.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      BigBlue, thanks for your perspective. I know so little about England's politics; it's interesting to hear from those of you living there.

    • teaches12345 profile image

      Dianna Mendez 21 months ago

      I think we need to agree to disagree on so many issues today. I grew up a democrat but turned republican in my later years. Now, I vote for the person most likely to make a good difference. Respect is very much a thing of the past. I can just hear that old song echoing in my ear!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      You and me both, Dianna! I long for the days when we could disagree without shouting at each other. Thanks for your views.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 21 months ago from Ohio, USA

      I have been called a Troll by one Lib on this site, and a Nazi by yet another. The happy results were two more 700+ word hubs replete with rich media and unassailable logic.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 21 months ago from Olympia, WA

      A troll and a Nazi, nicomp...that's hard to do. Congratulations. LOL Thanks for stopping by.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 20 months ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      A troll and a Nazi. Nice to know you have a balance to your life, nicomp. :)

      We have something similar over here in the UK teaches12345. The old tribal method of voting for the party which represents your class has mostly disappeared, Though there are still some who would vote for a three legged donkey if it represented the party they support, many will vote for the person who most represents their views.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 20 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks again, BigBlue....very interesting.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 20 months ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      I think it's time you kissed and made up with America Bill. For one thing there's more of them then you. And when I say "kissed and made up" I obviously mean metaphorically. As I said there is a lot of them and I don't think you will have time to kiss them all. Besides which I don't think Mrs. Bill would be too pleased you going out everyday and kissing people. :(

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 20 months ago from Olympia, WA

      I'll take that under advisement, BigBlue. It does sound exhausting now that you put it that way. :)

    • Lauren Valkyrie profile image

      Lauren Valkyrie 19 months ago from United States

      Bill,

      As a conservative female, I really enjoyed reading this hub. Bill, you're right! We all tend to have preconceived notions about any political ideology that is outside of our "bubble." It's almost automatic thinking now for conservatives to reject liberalism and vice versa. It is most definitely reinforced by the media. it is sad that anyone would scream at you for being a liberal. Perhaps this man would prefer to waive his rights to collect his social security benefits since FDR (a liberal) signed the Social Security Act. Very nice hub indeed.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 19 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Lauren. This Liberal male is proud to follow a conservative female who is reasonable and tolerant.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 19 months ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      What many in America may not realise is that Russia and the old Soviet Union is as conservative as America, don't let that socialist/communism thing fool you. And as in America being called a liberal can be an insult. But only if the person being insulted actually take it as such.

      A Russian journalist called a British Journalist a liberal thinking he had insulted her. Imagine how surprised he was when she raised her hand in the air and cheered. She regards herself as a liberal and unlike Russia, and America, in Western Europe it is not an insult. To her is is something she is proud of.

      Next time someone calls you a liberal, Bill, just smile at them as if they have complemented you and say "Thank you, that's very kind of you." I look forward to you telling us about that persons reaction.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 19 months ago from Ohio, USA

      Liberals have to tell each other how to feel?

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 19 months ago from Olympia, WA

      BigBlue, I love your solution...that should be very entertaining. Thank you!

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 19 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Nicomp, the next time I see one, I'll ask them. Thanks!

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 19 months ago from Ohio, USA

      billybuc : I'd like to know, keep me posted. I've never met a conservative who felt ashamed for holding such convictions. I'm confused why progressives have to build each other up just for being progressives.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 19 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Will do, nicomp.....stay tuned.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 19 months ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      nicomp. That must be an American thing. I consider myself a liberal and I do not ask nor do I tell people how to feel.

      And from my side of the pond it does look to me that the American conservatives do the same thing. Maybe you only notice it amongst liberals because it is something you are looking for but I see right leaning US politicians doing it all the time in the speeches. The fact that they use the term liberal as one of abuse is telling others how to feel.

      Liberal politics has a long standing tradition in Western Europe and is not under attack as it seems to be in the US. So maybe in the US they have to keep telling each other how to feel in support of each other.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 19 months ago from Ohio, USA

      @BigBlue54 : it might be an American thing. What does 'liberal' connote in your country?

      Liberals are not under attack here any more than conservatives are. We are polarized through the media because each side wants to be pandered to by TV, radio, web, and politicians. There are sufficient idealists on both sides to support national media outlets.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 19 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks Big Blue...the polarization here is disconcerting and harmful to all.

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 19 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks again, Nicomp!

    • word55 profile image

      Word 19 months ago from Chicago

      Well billybuc, YOU can't plz everybody, no matter who you are or whatever you do. So love God, be like Jesus, be cool, be who you are and you'll plz everybody in the sense that they'll have no right to hold anything against you and you'll be too preoccupied to concern yourself about it... including politics and all else.

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 19 months ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      Bill

      I've just been reading through some of the comments here with a big smile on my face as much of what's talked about in the comments here is true in New Zealand (in fact I think it's true in just about every western nation where I've lived)

      Over here both sides wear their Political leanings with pride! They don't "shout it from the rooftops" but at the same time we don't hide it!

      Then again reading some of the stuff here I see that even the most "Conservative" leaning politician here would be a "Liberal" in the US as some of the stuff we get as a matter of course they would never dream of changing!

      By the way I'm definitely a conservative here, but as far as I can tell you and I would stand for the same thing!

      Lawrence

      I once remember talking with an American Friend in London during the 1984 election and his thoughts on Margaret Thatcher. He pointed out he liked some of her policies (he was republican) so I asked if she'd make the grade as a republican politician, His reply was "No! She's totally Democrat!!!"

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 19 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Word, for sure....I'll be on the power of love every single day, my friend.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 19 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Lawrence, your story at the end had me smiling. There is great truth there. I appreciate you sharing that with us....there is so much ambiguity....so many lines we all cross...it makes labeling a complete waste of time.

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