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Evidently I Hate the United States: A Moment with Bill Reflection

Updated on August 19, 2015

The Impetus for This Article

I had a pretty good friend recently call me un-American. The exact sentence went something like this: “All Liberals are un-Americans.”

It was such a ludicrous statement that I didn’t even know what to say. Finally I told him I was a Liberal, to which he responded, “then you hate America.”

But he wasn’t done. He then proceeded to really get himself worked up, and eventually his voice rose and he was screaming about political issues.

He was screaming!

I was afraid he was going to blow a gasket.

I was also saddened.

How did it come to this in the United States? How can my political beliefs be such a threat to the serenity of an otherwise fairly rational human being? Why was it so important to him that he be right and I be wrong?

Do I look like I hate the United States?
Do I look like I hate the United States? | Source

We See It All the Time, Right?

No, this was not an isolated incident.

Turn on the television and watch some of the political pundits. Read some of the editorials in the newspaper. Hell, stop by the forums on the writing site HubPages. Get into some of the discussions on those forums. I promise you it will eventually become a name-calling shouting match between two polar-opposite viewpoints.

What’s the point?

Why is the name-calling necessary? All Democrats are idiots! All Republicans were dropped on their heads at birth! Greeners don’t care about this country; all they want to do is hug an owl!

Has the level of political debate really been lowered to that of an average elementary school playground?

For that matter, have all levels of debate on any topic been similarly lowered?

Pick your poison: abortion, taxes, religion, immigration, gun control, all guaranteed to bring out the worst in many voting Americans.

I seem to drive some people crazy with my viewpoints
I seem to drive some people crazy with my viewpoints

Where Does This Irrational Behavior Come From?

I have to assume that there is a feeling of being threatened at play here. How else do you explain irrational behavior like that? How are my Liberal beliefs a threat to any of you? Really, I want an answer. This country was built upon the backs of men, and women, of opposing viewpoints, so why do my beliefs suddenly cause otherwise rational human beings to have strokes?

The responses are so out of proportion to the threat as to seem ridiculous.

It is, quite frankly, illogical, insulting and laughable, all at the same time, and that’s not easy to do.

My thoughts go back to 1960. I was twelve years old that year and it was an election year. John F. Kennedy, a Democrat, was running against Richard M. Nixon, a Republican. Two men sitting at opposite ends of the political spectrum, but what I remember as being the bigger issue that year was the fact that Kennedy was a Catholic. I remember one of our neighbors saying that if Kennedy was elected he would seek advice from the Pope. I remember another neighbor severing ties with our family because we were Catholic and that made us….are you ready for this…that made us devil-worshippers.

Again, illogical, insulting and laughable, all at the same time.

Let Me Tell You What Is Definitely Not Going to Work

Allow me to give a tip to those who feel insults and shouting are necessary. You will not convince me of anything by calling me names, nor will you convince me of anything by shouting at me. It just won’t work. In fact, what you are going to accomplish is to broaden the gap between us. Maybe that’s your goal. I don’t know. I’m just telling you, with certainty, that my first response to that kind of political or religious or ideological debate is to tune you out completely.

The only chance, and I mean the absolute only chance, you have of getting me to listen to you is to present your arguments logically, rationally and respectfully. If you can’t bring that to the table then don’t sit down.

If you are a rational human being, you know what I say is true. None of us enjoys being screamed at. None of us enjoys having our patriotism questioned. None of us enjoys being called names. You are every bit as loyal to this country as I am. The fact that we disagree on how this country should be run does not change that fact. I know you love your country, as do I. I’m fine with that. I don’t give a rat’s patootie that you disagree with me. In fact, I welcome it. How incredibly boring it would be if everyone believed as I do.

I can only think of two times in our history when there was near-unanimous agreement on anything….right after Pearl Harbor and right after 9/11. That’s it! All the rest of the time, on all the rest of the topics, this country’s citizens and political representatives have disagreed. And that’s how it should be in this country.

So there is only one logical path to take.

There is room enough for all of us
There is room enough for all of us | Source

A House Divided

President Lincoln told us that a house divided against itself cannot stand. For that time, and that issue, those words held great truth. I would go a step further and say that those words need to be remembered today as well, but in a slightly different vein.

A house divided on issues, today, can most certainly stand. A house unwilling to work for compromise and solutions has no chance of standing.

Here is one point I think we can all agree on: this country, the United States of America, has some serious problems. You may disagree with me about the nature of those problems. You may disagree with me about the cause of those problems. You may even disagree with me about the solution to those problems, but there is little doubt that problems exist, from homelessness to the treatment of veterans to the economy to immigration, there are serious problems to tackle and they need to be tackled by serious people.

Not by playground bullies!

Are you interested in solving these problems or are you interested in calling me names? I sometimes wonder.

In the Meantime

While you consider my last question, I’ll be here in Olympia discussing serious problems with serious people. When I’m done with that I think I’ll go burn the American flag because hey, everyone knows I hate America, and then I think I’ll go sign up with ISIS because hey, everyone knows I’m un-American. Then I think I’ll scream at my wife because she disagreed with me yesterday on a matter, and then I think I’ll go slap some little kids for annoying me when I was trying to take a nap, and then…….

2015 William D. Holland (aka billybuc)

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    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Lawrence, your story at the end had me smiling. There is great truth there. I appreciate you sharing that with us....there is so much ambiguity....so many lines we all cross...it makes labeling a complete waste of time.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Word, for sure....I'll be on the power of love every single day, my friend.

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 2 years ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      Bill

      I've just been reading through some of the comments here with a big smile on my face as much of what's talked about in the comments here is true in New Zealand (in fact I think it's true in just about every western nation where I've lived)

      Over here both sides wear their Political leanings with pride! They don't "shout it from the rooftops" but at the same time we don't hide it!

      Then again reading some of the stuff here I see that even the most "Conservative" leaning politician here would be a "Liberal" in the US as some of the stuff we get as a matter of course they would never dream of changing!

      By the way I'm definitely a conservative here, but as far as I can tell you and I would stand for the same thing!

      Lawrence

      I once remember talking with an American Friend in London during the 1984 election and his thoughts on Margaret Thatcher. He pointed out he liked some of her policies (he was republican) so I asked if she'd make the grade as a republican politician, His reply was "No! She's totally Democrat!!!"

    • word55 profile image

      Word 2 years ago from Chicago

      Well billybuc, YOU can't plz everybody, no matter who you are or whatever you do. So love God, be like Jesus, be cool, be who you are and you'll plz everybody in the sense that they'll have no right to hold anything against you and you'll be too preoccupied to concern yourself about it... including politics and all else.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks again, Nicomp!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks Big Blue...the polarization here is disconcerting and harmful to all.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      @BigBlue54 : it might be an American thing. What does 'liberal' connote in your country?

      Liberals are not under attack here any more than conservatives are. We are polarized through the media because each side wants to be pandered to by TV, radio, web, and politicians. There are sufficient idealists on both sides to support national media outlets.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 2 years ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      nicomp. That must be an American thing. I consider myself a liberal and I do not ask nor do I tell people how to feel.

      And from my side of the pond it does look to me that the American conservatives do the same thing. Maybe you only notice it amongst liberals because it is something you are looking for but I see right leaning US politicians doing it all the time in the speeches. The fact that they use the term liberal as one of abuse is telling others how to feel.

      Liberal politics has a long standing tradition in Western Europe and is not under attack as it seems to be in the US. So maybe in the US they have to keep telling each other how to feel in support of each other.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Will do, nicomp.....stay tuned.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      billybuc : I'd like to know, keep me posted. I've never met a conservative who felt ashamed for holding such convictions. I'm confused why progressives have to build each other up just for being progressives.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Nicomp, the next time I see one, I'll ask them. Thanks!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      BigBlue, I love your solution...that should be very entertaining. Thank you!

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      Liberals have to tell each other how to feel?

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 2 years ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      What many in America may not realise is that Russia and the old Soviet Union is as conservative as America, don't let that socialist/communism thing fool you. And as in America being called a liberal can be an insult. But only if the person being insulted actually take it as such.

      A Russian journalist called a British Journalist a liberal thinking he had insulted her. Imagine how surprised he was when she raised her hand in the air and cheered. She regards herself as a liberal and unlike Russia, and America, in Western Europe it is not an insult. To her is is something she is proud of.

      Next time someone calls you a liberal, Bill, just smile at them as if they have complemented you and say "Thank you, that's very kind of you." I look forward to you telling us about that persons reaction.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Lauren. This Liberal male is proud to follow a conservative female who is reasonable and tolerant.

    • Lauren Valkyrie profile image

      Lauren Valkyrie 2 years ago from United States

      Bill,

      As a conservative female, I really enjoyed reading this hub. Bill, you're right! We all tend to have preconceived notions about any political ideology that is outside of our "bubble." It's almost automatic thinking now for conservatives to reject liberalism and vice versa. It is most definitely reinforced by the media. it is sad that anyone would scream at you for being a liberal. Perhaps this man would prefer to waive his rights to collect his social security benefits since FDR (a liberal) signed the Social Security Act. Very nice hub indeed.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      I'll take that under advisement, BigBlue. It does sound exhausting now that you put it that way. :)

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 2 years ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      I think it's time you kissed and made up with America Bill. For one thing there's more of them then you. And when I say "kissed and made up" I obviously mean metaphorically. As I said there is a lot of them and I don't think you will have time to kiss them all. Besides which I don't think Mrs. Bill would be too pleased you going out everyday and kissing people. :(

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks again, BigBlue....very interesting.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 2 years ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      A troll and a Nazi. Nice to know you have a balance to your life, nicomp. :)

      We have something similar over here in the UK teaches12345. The old tribal method of voting for the party which represents your class has mostly disappeared, Though there are still some who would vote for a three legged donkey if it represented the party they support, many will vote for the person who most represents their views.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      A troll and a Nazi, nicomp...that's hard to do. Congratulations. LOL Thanks for stopping by.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      I have been called a Troll by one Lib on this site, and a Nazi by yet another. The happy results were two more 700+ word hubs replete with rich media and unassailable logic.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      You and me both, Dianna! I long for the days when we could disagree without shouting at each other. Thanks for your views.

    • teaches12345 profile image

      Dianna Mendez 2 years ago

      I think we need to agree to disagree on so many issues today. I grew up a democrat but turned republican in my later years. Now, I vote for the person most likely to make a good difference. Respect is very much a thing of the past. I can just hear that old song echoing in my ear!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      BigBlue, thanks for your perspective. I know so little about England's politics; it's interesting to hear from those of you living there.

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 2 years ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      I would like to point out that although Churchill was Prime Minister of the wartime coalition government it was his deputy Clement Attlee who actually ran the government.

      It was because Churchill was so out of touch with what the British wanted he was comprehensibly defeated in the 1945 election. Ironic when you realise the his ability to understand what people wanted.

      Churchill was good at rhetoric and PR but not so much as a PM.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Lady E, I may not have all the qualities....my vote can't be purchased. :) There are many of us here who would consider moving to another country if Trump were voted President. :) Thank you!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Interesting, Lawrence. Thanks for that clarification.

    • Lady_E profile image

      Elena 2 years ago from London, UK

      Oh, you look like you are loving the United States in that photo. A very interesting read. I am not good with politics, so can't comment much on it. However, I hope Donald Trump will not be the next US President. America will be better in your hands or Hilary Clinton's. You have all the qualities for the job and Bev would make a brilliant First Lady. :-)

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 2 years ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      But it wasn't him who changed! He still held the same values at the end of his career as he did in the begining! It was the parties that changed!

      Lawrence

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Great point about Churchill, Lawrence. I had forgotten his flip-flops over time.....we could use a bit of his grit and intelligence about now.

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 2 years ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      Bill

      Following on from one comment earlier. Probably the two best Presidents the USA had in the twentieth century were both 'liberal'

      FDR was a Democrat (four times elected, pulled the US out of the great depression as well as through WW2)

      Then there was JFK!

      By the way talking about not knowing the party without the program, how to handle Churchill? He started off conservative (right wing) moved to the Liberal party (centre left) then back to the 'Tories' and finally in WW2 was put in charge of a coalition but only because he was the ONLY ONE LABOUR (left wing) would support but we all knew exactly what he stood for!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you dahoglund....sometimes you can't tell the players without a program in politics. :) You are right of course....the labels seem to change with the times. I know who I like at this moment but I would be hard-pressed to tell you what their "political philosophy" is.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks for your input, Lawrence. Sorry I'm so late to comment. We were trying to winterize our farm before the cold weather and rains hit....and we did. I did see your article and it was a dandy.

      bill

    • dahoglund profile image

      Don A. Hoglund 2 years ago from Wisconsin Rapids

      The trouble with terms like liberal vs conservative is that the meaning keep changing. I am somewhat in tune with President Reagan, although I was not a supporter of his at the time. When he said that he did not leave the democrat party, it left him I knew exactly what he meant. My values are pretty much what they have always been, but they are now labeled differently. One of the best teachers I had in college was a member of the socialist party, but he would probably be considered a conservative now. He got a bit of notoriety in Minneapolis in the 1960's because he publicly said that all views should be represented by speakers at the university.

      That was pretty liberal then, it would be called conservative now.

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 2 years ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      Bill

      I've always seen myself as being "Right wing" in politics here, but in the USA my politics would mostly sit in the "Left wing" camp! (pro healthcare, pro gun control, ok not so hot on abortion but the rest I'd go with)

      It was Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government, EXCEPT FOR ALL THE OTHERS" (Okay, he'd just lost the 1945 election where Britain said thank you for his exceptional leadership by booting him out of office).

      I agree with you, we need debate to take on the problems we face, we might not see 'eye to eye' but at least we can respect and work together.

      Great thoughts though.

      By the way my latest hub is about some Americans who 'broke ranks' risked jail in the USA and became heroes we can all say thank you to!

      Blessings

      Lawrence

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Frank and you are absolutely correct...freedom of speech means I have to allow you to say something that will make my blood boil...because we are all Americans.

    • Frank Atanacio profile image

      Frank Atanacio 2 years ago from Shelton

      this country always have its shares of im right and your wrong, but that's what makes this country great... who said I'd let you say anything you want about this country and defend what you have to say whether you're right or wrong? hmm great reflection my friend

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      That would be nice, wouldn't it, Deb? Oh well....we live and learn...hopefully. :) Thank you!

    • aviannovice profile image

      Deb Hirt 2 years ago from Stillwater, OK

      Like Gilda Radner used to say, "It's always something," and it is. It would be nice if we could all get along by simply agreeing that we won't agree on everything.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      We did, Anna! Thank you!

      bill

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Genna, your opening statement that there is a kind of madness taking over people is right on in my opinion. I hope it changes to positive energy soon because I don't like this at all.

      Thank you as always for leaving such a meaningful and insightful comment.

      bill

    • annart profile image

      Ann Carr 2 years ago from SW England

      You're welcome, bill. Hope you enjoyed the fair.

      Ann :)

    • Genna East profile image

      Genna East 2 years ago from Massachusetts, USA

      There is a kind of madness that seems to have taken over people when it comes to politics and labels, and "us versus them." I'm an Independent, but this means that I'm a "wishy-washy no-mind who doesn't have the character to take a stand." (True story; this is what one of my Conservative friends told me not too long ago.)

      And you are quite right; regardless from which side of the aisle the negative epithets are hurled, this behavior is irrational. If they only knew how this makes them look to others. To me, it's like watching "The Exorcist"...I keep waiting for their heads to spin around. All of this stems from ignorance and fear that is pandered to by certain politicians and media pundits or "talking heads." (No pun intended.)

      You love America, my friend. And I'll stand by that with every cognizant, sentient thought this "wish-washy no-mind" can muster :-)

      Happy Sunday.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Ann. I'm done with my rant and I am having a soothing Sunday. We'll do a little purging around here and then we're going to a neighborhood fair which should be loads of fun.

      Enjoy your day and thank you, as always.

      bill

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      We hear the same thing here, BigBlue....American values for the middle class. Politicians love to say that, as if they have any clue what middle class looks like.

    • annart profile image

      Ann Carr 2 years ago from SW England

      Apologies for being a bit late on this one, bill!

      It's just the same here and I suppose the world over. Why can't people be civil and argue a point respectfully? I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they feel threatened; why do they fell that? - because they're insecure or perhaps unable to express themselves. However, any decent human being should be able to talk without losing control.

      We see people on the television getting hot under the collar; we see politicians yelling at others in the street when they're confronted.

      As you say, when a country comes together, things improve for a while, against a common cause. It's an awful thing to say but it seems only wars and violence get people to come together to try to fight it - is that an oxymoron? Crazy world!

      Common decency has to win out in the end or we're all out for the count.

      On that note, I hope you have a soothing Sunday, bill!

      Great hub, great message. Wish I could share it with all the politicians here and everywhere.

      Ann :)

    • BigBlue54 profile image

      BigBlue54 2 years ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      Never had anyone called Un British. You can do things which are Un British, such as winning at sports and then boasting about it. To get around that we would lose but be very sporting about it. We have tried winning and being sporting about it but that just left us confused.

      We keep getting right wing politicians talking about British values, which for them means having lots of money which you can give to their political party and send your children to private schools. As far as I am concerned it means going out for a drink on a Friday night and having a curry on the way home.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thanks Kailey. I'll meet you in the coffee shop in a little while. :) No, I didn't disable the ratings...I think HP got tired of them. :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Brad, you are a brave man and intrepid. :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Zulma. There are quite a few days when I think our society is still on that playground and can't find its way off. :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Lea, I agree with you in your last statement...a true friend wouldn't care how I felt, and that is one lesson I took from that encounter. If we are only friends if we agree with each other then we were never really friends.

      Thank you for your kind friendship. You are greatly appreciated.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      I agree with you totally, Manatita...easier to break than build...I love that line.

      blessings always my peaceful friend.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Mary, obviously I agree with everything you said...and chocolate is my choice. :)

      I don't know what happened to the voting buttons. I noticed that yesterday and thought I was going blind. :)

      Thanks as always, my friend.

    • social thoughts profile image

      social thoughts 2 years ago from New Jersey

      Another awesome hub! Like you, I never understood the point of name-calling as a form of argument. A real argument takes information to back up why you feel a certain way. Also, like you, I never understood this "un-American" claim so many throw around. I've never called a Republican "un-American" just because I disagree with them. Maybe, it's because here in America we're just a tad too sheltered, and most of us want enough pride in our country to believe we're entirely different than other countries, which unfortunately isn't entirely true. We're just better at hiding it. Anyway, awesome hub. Did you disable the ratings or was that done by HubPages? I'd definitely "up" if I had the chance.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 2 years ago from Orange County California

      Bill

      I tried again but

    • phoenix2327 profile image

      Zulma Burgos-Dudgeon 2 years ago from United Kingdom

      Sunk to the level of the elementary playground? I wasn't aware it was ever above it. If only these same people put as much energy into being part of the solution...what an interesting world it would be.

      Nice one, Bill.

    • Sparklea profile image

      Sparklea 2 years ago from Upstate New York

      Billy Buc you nailed the whole point in your opening statements: "Why was it so important to him that he be right and I be wrong?" I did not have time to read ALL these excellent comments but I do want to put in my 2 cents here: My personal opinion is that we are ALL entitled to have an opinion...BUT it is a mistake to get upset with those who may not agree with us. Your friend was upset because he could not deal with the way YOU felt...he HAD to be RIGHT...therefore YOU were wrong. And this is why we see people arguing and bellowing on television, complaining in the newspapers...They are screaming inside: "Agree with ME! I am RIGHT, YOU are wrong." And therefore that makes them feel more important. I have learned the hard way that you cannot change what a person thinks. I totally justify why your friend made you feel sad. But, the good part of what happened is the result of your writing this spectacular hub that has brought on a terrific response. I, for one, have so darn much respect for you because you speak up, you are honest, full of heart and integrity, and so loved by so many. I hope your friend apologizes. I maybe should not say this, but I wonder why a true friend would talk to you that way. You don't deserve it. God bless always, Sparklea :)

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Dora, I couldn't agree more. This is time for serious people who are serious about solutions....you said it perfectly. Thank you!

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      BigBlue, I love it. What a great story. Thanks for sharing that.

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 2 years ago from london

      Well Bill,

      For some it is easier to break than to build. Breaking is an act of insecurity and fear, but that's where they feel some sense of security, and you and I won't shift them. Not even with your immaculately written, well reasoned and logical Hub. Sad Bro, but keep up the Faith! Much Love.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      moonlake, I definitely think the media has much to do with the hatred going around. In the old days it was called yellow journalism....the purpose of which is to stir people up into a frenzy. It's working.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Billy, at first glance, you comments would seem to be over-the-top and inflammatory...but I happen to believe them as I've thought the same things over the past few decades. I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but I do believe big business would be quite happy if all Americans were as stupid as sheep.

      Thanks for a great comment.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Larry, all great points. Freedom of speech carries with it a responsibility, of course: it means I have to be willing to give the same freedom to others no matter how much their opinions upset me.

      Thanks for your thoughts.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Thank you Shyron! The thing I have noticed in these debate and shouting matches is that logic has little to do with any of it...there is an animalistic need to be louder than the other participants, and a sad need to always be right and be agreed with. The concept of working together for a solution is never even considered. How are we supposed to ever solve problems if that is the case?

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      It is indeed, DDE! Thanks for stopping by.

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Faith, any name calling on this site will be quickly deleted. Thank you for sharing your beliefs. I'm your friend and I'll watch your back all the way. Count on it!

      blessings and hugs coming your way

      bill

    • billybuc profile image
      Author

      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Michael my friend yes, I know what you mean. I love your response...."I don't care." Perfect. As for your question at the end...at least in recent memory....very little has been changed. This political dance continues, the music never stops, only the dancers change.

      blessings always

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      Mary Craig 2 years ago from New York

      Vanilla and chocolate damn it! That's why we have choices. How sad is it, in this country and in this day and age people cannot discuss the two most important things in their lives, politics and religion! Alas, it is true. Rather than lose friends and start verbal wars those two subjects need to be avoided at all costs.

      Having passion about what you believe is great, stuffing it down someone else's throat or telling them they're crazy because they don't believe in what you do, not so great, dare I say crazy?

      Heaven help us out of this mess. (No religion invoked.)

      I don't know what happened to the voting buttons. This is the third hub I've visited today with no buttons. Have they been removed? I even tried using different Internet providers and still no buttons.

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Sorry about that, Brad!

      Not really, but I had to say something. :)

      Thanks for being here.

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Isn't that the truth, drbj! I swear, before this is over, the Republican candidates will eat each other's young.

      Thanks as always

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Mike, there is so much truth in your comment that it gives me a headache. LOL Yes, we will be cleaning up for quite some time, I'm afraid.

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      I can't either, Ruchira. I guess my job is not to understand them but to allow them. :) Thank you!

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Jaye, it's good to have you back among us. Thanks for the comment....liberal Democrat in Mississippii? Now you'll want me to believe pigs can fly. :) I happen to have the same bumper sticker, my friend. I keep good company.

      Talk to you soon

      bill

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      No they ain't, Eric, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing in the final analysis, as you well know. Thanks, buddy!

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Donna, going to college is the best thing I've ever done. There I learned to think for myself and to do research before speaking. Thanks for reminding me of that.

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Admin, and it is arrogance based on ignorance, and that is an amazing combination. :) Thank you for the visit.

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Will, I don't know why that surprises me, but it does. A writing site where writers stop following writers because of politics? If there is logic there I fail to see it.

      Thank you! I'll be by to read your short story soon.

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      beta, a "mustard seed of common ground"....doesn't sound like much, does it? Fairly easy to do, right? Then why in the world do we fight each other constantly and eat our young in the process? I love your line about those politicians being all about pork. Great comment all the way around, my friend. Thank you!

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      Dora Weithers 2 years ago from The Caribbean

      Bill, you made the point effectively. Pet peeves distract attention from the big picture. Now more than ever, Americans need to get serious and work together for solutions.

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      BigBlue54 2 years ago from Hull, East Yorkshire

      In the UK the BBC has a news channel an every Saturday morning they have writers and journalists, many of them foreign journalist who are based in the UK, sit around a table and discuss news events of the week.

      One programme included a Russian journalist who, during a discussion which was getting heated, decided to call one of the other guest a liberal. Now in Russia this is regarded as an insult. Imagine his surprise when her reaction was to clap her hands and cheer. For her it was not an insult but actually a badge of honour.

      So next time someone tells you you are a liberal thank them warmly and see what reaction you get.

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      moonlake 2 years ago from America

      I would like to be half liberal and half conservative, but I guess it's impossible. I hate going on trips with ladies and we're having a nice lunch and they start on politics with no concern how some of us feel they start talking and think everything they say is right and we all agree.They just take it for granted. I have to keep my mouth closed just to keep from an argument starting.

      The trip has been ruined. I'm also sick of politics on facebook.

      I believe the media has a lot to do with all the hatred going around. It's kind of scary.

    • Dr Billy Kidd profile image

      Dr Billy Kidd 2 years ago from Sydney, Australia

      Americans, in general, are anti-intellectual. Even educated folks are mostly literate only in their chosen profession.

      Now there's the Koch brother's anti-education movement. The purpose of which is make the sheep more easily herded.

      There's also the movement to divide and conquer America politically.

      And politics are run by the wealthy to make sure the upper 10% keep getting 90% of the income. So the media tells you who to hate and feeds the fish on bogus information. This keeps it all in place! This has made hatred a family value.

      No one asks "what would Jesus do?" And they call America a Christian nation. Wow.

    • profile image

      Larry Wall 2 years ago

      It is 1:20 a.m., so naturally I am awake. Here is an idea. We well everyone who is not satisfied, find a country where they want to live. If they can get permission to move permanently to that country, find a job, learn the language, and all the other things, we will let one person from that country come here in place of each person, who thinks the country is so bad. I think Paris and Rome are booked up, so it will have to be less exotic places.

      Of course this is a fantasy, because the people who do not like it here could leave, but they continue to stay. There must be something about being an American that offers some attraction--it may be that free speech thing--much of the stuff said on Hub Pages could not be written for public view in many other countries.

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      Devika Primić 2 years ago from Dubrovnik, Croatia

      America is a troubled place just like most of the world. Thank you.

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      Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago from Texas

      Bill, well put! This reminds me of the time my husband was in a store and was talking politics to someone in the store and a little man came up and stepped on my husband's toes on purpose because he did not like his politics. My husband told the little man to name one thing that he said that was not true, and a cheer went up from onlookers, and the little man could not.

      This is a great hub from a great American.

      A lot of people treat the war between the two political parties as if it is a sporting event and don't realize that these folks are in the political arena for the money and the power.

      Blessing to you my friend and thank you for writing this.

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      Faith Reaper 2 years ago from southern USA

      Exactly ...How can my political beliefs be such a threat to the serenity of otherwise fairly rational human beings ... been there too, dear Bill! I think it goes on either side of the spectrum for sure. I don't like to call myself Democrat or Republican because I vote for the person who I think is best for the office in my mind ...an arduous task nowadays though.

      As to your "Pick your poison" and I hear the name calling coming: abortion (Bill, I am so thankful you are even here and that your mother gave you up for adoption as opposed to having you killed ...), taxes (When will they ever understand you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip!), religion (Praise the Lord God for His many blessings and love for all of us sinners.), immigration ... pass, gun control (Shocker here ...I really can't stand the feel of a 9mm in my hand for it represents nothing but death. However, I will tell you right now, don't ask me to choose between protecting myself and my family from some psychopath, rapist, child abuser and so on, as it is an easy choice for me ...enough said ...except I know I will never have to do such when I call on the name of the Lord who will protect me in my time of trouble ...okay, here comes the name calling just because of my beliefs.

      Peace

    • Michael-Milec profile image

      Michael-Milec 2 years ago

      Hello Bill.

      Now, after all dust settled, everything is clear. Your article is one I was anticipating to have confirmed what was known to me: Listen, and hear what the people talk or write and you will know, it is spiritual force behind "my opinion". There aren't two and a half opposite parties people tend to take pride in defending their membership. Not at all.We do live among people who are liars and the other ones ; the deceived ones would like everyone to be like them, while those with the peace within would excuse themselves for more urgent need " I have to go to bathroom"- instead to continue in a subject none of participant knowledgable nor given authority to make impact in given matter.

      ( No wonder that my frequent remark "I don't care " cuts conversation short, because- and I finish my quotation " because I do care for more important...") Rarely if ever someone asks , what you mean by "more important." You already know my friend what I mean.

      Liberal or not, may good Lord bless and protect you even more.

      PS , has anything been changed about voting ?

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      bradmasterOCcal 2 years ago from Orange County California

      Billy

      Scrolling down through the comments, I got a finger cramp. and .

    • drbj profile image

      drbj and sherry 2 years ago from south Florida

      Hi, Bill. Will Rogers once said that the greatest thing about America is that anyone can be elected president. It's also the worst thing. I could not agree with him more as I watch the posturing and empty speeches on TV and in the news.

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      mckbirdbks 2 years ago from Emerald Wells, Just off the crossroads,Texas

      Hi Bill. The screaming and shouting and bullying is a tactic. "They" do not want any voice except those shouting their beliefs to be heard. And we have all heard so much nonsense that it makes you wonder 'how come they aint shar'n the good stuff'

      We are a politically immature country. We are war mongers who believe in the sanctity of life. We are the richest country in the world with 17 trillion in unfunded liabilities. We are overall a mess. From my chair, 'the people' did not have much to do with the mess, but we will have to clean it up.

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      Ruchira 2 years ago from United States

      Your article makes me ponder over a sticker I saw on a car some days back...it was a mercedes and still he was not happy. This country gave him lots to be able to afford one...and yet the bitterness.

      Can't understand such people, Bill

      Point well made though :)

    • JayeWisdom profile image

      Jaye Denman 2 years ago from Deep South, USA

      That sound you hear in your imagination, Bill, is me applauding long and loudly. It's sad that this country is polarized by politics with no meeting point or compromises in sight. The sad result is that the country and most of its citizens suffer while a very few get what they want (regardless of how it affects others).

      At least, living in the state of Washington, you are not totally surrounded by die-hard extreme right-wingers. Here in bright red Mississippi, I certainly stand out: a senior citizen, white, female, progressive liberal Democrat. I have an agreement with family members and friends not to discuss politics (or religion), so this certainly limits conversational topics for the next 1 1/2 years. I'm afraid my car will be rear-ended any day when a Tea Party Republican sees my bumper sticker: VOTE FOR BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT, 2016! (But I'm not scared enough to remove it.)

      I was away from HP for a bit--a combination of work projects and minor health issues--so the new format comes as a surprise. I'll try to spend more time on the site soon, and have two ideas for hubs germinating in my brain that I will (hopefully) develop into articles soon and publish.

      Take care - Jaye

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      Eric Dierker 2 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Dang this reminds me of the "good old" days when I was young and full of piss and vinegar and had all the answers, cocktail in one hand and some kind of red meat in the other. Black and white and no gray. I could spend all my energy chasing a buck and outdoing the Jones's. Did not have to think just yell louder with more expletives. The good news about caring more is that you think more. The bad news is you think more and things ain't so easy.

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      I agree with you, Sally. I have reached the point where it is much easier on my blood pressure to just walk away. We'll live much longer that way, my friend.

      bill

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Jackie, there does seem to be a rather strong element of hate involved. It's just not in me, and I refuse to surround myself with hateful people. Thank you for saying that.

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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Oh Liz, you and I would get along famously in our garden conversations. The gutters would flow. LOL

    • billybuc profile image
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      Bill Holland 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Now, Audrey, if we could only change some minds with articles like this one. :) Thanks for being here. I'm in good company.

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      Cygnet Brown 2 years ago from Springfield, Missouri

      One of the best investments that my little conservative but ever did was become a liberal arts major in college. I think everyone should have to learn to write essays that tell not only your own view but rationally describes the opposite view.

      I think every child in school should take debate (like two of my three children) in school where they have to take different sides of an issue including one that they might not agree with naturally.

      Not to say that I don't have a definite opinion, (you know I do), but that I can concede that others have a difference in opinion and I respect that opinion.

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      Efficient Admin 2 years ago from Charlotte, NC

      Add Your Comment..I am right there with you Bill - if you come to the table ranting and screaming like a maniac I will go find the stable adults to hang out with. I think people in our country seem to be getting angrier and more arrogant as time goes on, unfortunately.