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The Logic Behind Supporting Our Troops

Updated on January 14, 2013
Did we go over there to find a solution, or play the bully?
Did we go over there to find a solution, or play the bully? | Source

Patriotism isn't just an act one does to show support for their country. No, it's much more than that. Showing patriotism, and in essence showing your support, means that you are giving your consent. Whether you agree with the war or not, most people would agree that the soldiers, the men and women that are over in another country fighting and dying for the glory and honor of this country, don't need to be judged, they just need our support. Well, I have to disagree.

The logic behind patriotism is quite fail proof. It's loaded with guilt and shame so if you don't show your support for the troops, you are the bad guy. Even if you are adamantly against the war and have very good reasons for that, you are expected to support the troops. If you don't you are un-American, a commie scum bag, or my favorite catch-all name, a terrorist.

So, let me see if I get this right. As a person who is against violence, against murdering innocent people, against war for profit, and against the U.S. policy of forcing democracy onto other nations, I still have to show my support for the troops or be labeled as a terrorist? I have to show my support for the men and women who in essence are being paid money to go into a foreign country and kill innocent people? This is patriotism?

It sounds more like a sneaky way to get people to support the war, not necessarily the troops.

Yes, Innocent People

Some of you have easily been brainwashed into believing that all Iraqis or all Pakistanis or Afghans are the bad guy. Really? So dropping bombs on an entire village and wiping entire populations out is necessary because all Iraqis/Pakistanis/Afghans are evil. Yeah, that makes sense.

Face it, your spouse, child, sibling, parent, didn't go over to another country to fight for our freedom. Our freedom has never been threatened by poverty stricken villagers in a third world country. They went over to do whatever the chain of command tells them to do, without asking any questions, so that at the end of the day their paycheck is secured. That is the bottom line. There is nothing brave about that. I do not support that.

If they weren't getting paid, they wouldn't go. Some will argue that the pay is not near enough and that they do it because they are patriotic. Patriotism is a veil for selfishness. It's nothing short of nationalism, and if we can recall back far enough, that didn't work too well for the Nazis.

Military Memes Don't Make You Guys Look Too Brave

Real brave, huh? Let's film it, too, for posterity.
Real brave, huh? Let's film it, too, for posterity. | Source

If you notice in the picture above, there are two American soldiers waiting to blow a guy up in a mud brick and straw hovel. Is this not the perfect illustration of a bully? Invading a Third World country, where most people live in hovels like this, and trying to pull off the facade that we are the good guy and they are the bad guy is not only unrealistic, it is an insult to me and any other intelligent person out there.

Now, I know most people reading this will not even get this far in the article before being outraged. How dare I or anyone speak out loud against our brave American soldiers? Well, I think what I have to say needs to be said, and it needs to be said out loud and often. I may be in the minority, but I am not alone. In fact, the reason I am writing this is because of a video I saw about a guy named Dusty Smith who feels pretty much the same way I do about this. The link for the video is here. Warning, Dusty has a potty mouth.

Whoopass, Really?

I see no diplomacy here. I see a lot of testosterone, though.
I see no diplomacy here. I see a lot of testosterone, though. | Source

American Soldiers Aren't Brave, They Are Selfish

If you watched Dusty's video then you know how I feel. Soldiers are not good role models. They are not brave. They have made some pretty poor decisions in life. It's not anything that I feel I have to support. While I don't wish any harm to them, I am not rooting for them.

Let me share a little secret with you. Here in America it is absolutely voluntary to join the military. No one shows up at your door on your eighteenth birthday and takes you from your family so that you can go join the army. That just doesn't happen here. So, no, I do not feel any kind of obligation to a person who, because of greed, lust for power, or just plain stupidity, decided to join the military. I feel bad if you come back hurt, but not sorry for you.

In other countries like Iraq, joining the military is not voluntary. Soldiers do show up at your door on your eighteenth birthday and literally take you away, by force if necessary, to join the military. For these men, I do feel sorry. They aren't fighting because they are getting paid, like American soldiers are. They are fighting because the alternative is torture and death. Compared to them, American soldiers are the most greedy, selfish, arrogant bastards that ever walked the planet.

Some of you get it.
Some of you get it. | Source

There is Hope

Not all soldiers are greedy, selfish, war mongers. I mean, there have been many that have gone with the patriotic mindset and returned with open eyes. They aren't proud. They are humbled. I could give several examples, but I don't think it's a big secret that many soldiers, if not all, do not come back feeling like they accomplished much.

This article isn't intended to bash on anyone. I only want to say out loud what many are feeling but are too afraid to say. This country doesn't tolerate insubordination, too well. When our government leaders are telling you night after night, that we have to go to war and all Americans should support it, I can see why so many of us just go along with it. But you get to a point where your conscience just doesn't let you sleep at night.

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    • Peggy W profile image

      Peggy Woods 5 years ago from Houston, Texas

      Well now...this is not going to win you any popularity contests, of that I am sure. While the draft is no longer in effect...it was during the time frame of the Vietnam war when both of my brothers were involved. My father and my husband's father fought during WW2 when Hitler and his minions were devastating parts of Europe and trying to wipe out entire races of people who were not deemed "perfect" according to his standards. My family's military history goes back even further and they fought and protected our country's interests for good reason.

      We are in a war whether you choose to believe it or not. It doesn't matter if the enemy lives in hovels or palaces. Terrorism coming from many regions is a bit trickier to fight than in the "good old days" when battle lines could be neatly drawn on a map. Those days are gone, but I for one applaud the bravery of our men and women in uniform and the part they do to protect not ONLY the USA, but people in other parts of the world as well.

      That is not to say that war is good. It is horrific and it would be wonderful if peace could reign everywhere. But where pure evil exists (think Twin Towers and the Murray Building in Oklahoma City)...notice here, I did not just pick on foreign terrorists!...we need dedicated people who would literally sacrifice their own lives to root out such terror if necessary to protect us. That is what our police, our firemen and yes, our soldiers do on an everyday basis.

      To say that they get paid to do it...are you aware that many military families are on food stamps? They barely scrape by! It is HARDLY for the money that they enlist.

      To say that you do not feel sorry for those who come home wounded...do you feel the same about police or firemen who protect you? Personally...I feel sorry for anyone who is wounded or killed on either side of a battle...but that is just me. I do wish there was no necessity to take up arms ever...but that is just not the course of human history...nor sadly, do I see it changing anytime soon.

      I pray for our political leaders that they take the right course of action and I pray for our soldiers and civilians and for people everywhere.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
      Author

      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      Belief has nothing to do with it. It sounds like you are skirting the issue. I never once claim to "not believe" we are in a war. In fact, we are very much in a war and that is the problem. And, contrary to popular belief, terrorism isn't the reason for this war, whether you want to believe it or not.

      Secondly, soldiers today are not fighting to protect any American freedoms as none of them have been taken away from us by the Iraqis, or any other nations we are attacking right now. Guess what, Vietnam didn't take anything away from us, either. Neither did Germany. We CHOSE to get involved in all of those wars based on superficial nonsense. Now, I agree that Hitler had to be stopped, but don't come on here crying about your families military history and how noble and patriotic you are when in essence, they did nothing for me. I, nor anyone else in America was in danger of being attacked.

      I stand by my statement that I do not feel sorry for any U.S. soldier. Critical thinking beforehand might have led to sounder decision making. And yes, evil may very well exist, but it does not come in the form of helpless and innocent women and children who just happen to live in the country we are attacking, which, by the way, had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Twin Towers.

      Obviously you are biased.

    • thejeffriestube profile image

      Dave 5 years ago from United States

      I'm glad I served and protected my country, and even more glad that I did so you could write this article. I don't agree with any of your article, at all, but I'm happy that you can voice your opinions freely. It's hard to understand why we serve, especially for those that never have. And it's even harder for those people to understand how rewarding it feels to work as a team toward a common goal. When you are the only white guy in a room with every other race, and you all wear the same uniform, the only thing that matters is if everyone has each other's back. That was the best thing in the military for me, is I became race-neutral. Maybe the civilian population could use some of that, too.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
      Author

      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      Well, I'm glad you feel so accomplished, Jeff. Like I state in my article, not all U.S. soldiers are selfish. I think some of you do join to try to fix what is wrong within the system. I think the word "goal" gets tossed around a lot, though. But thank you for your comment.

    • MG Singh profile image

      MG Singh 5 years ago from Singapore

      All soldiers fighting for their country deserve respect and admiration

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 5 years ago from Placentia California

      emmaspeaks: There are two types of wars. There are wars like world war II that are a direct threat to our existence, where everybody becomes patriotic and then there are wars that are fought for geo-political reasons, like Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanastan. The bombing of the trade center, and the pentagon started out as a direct threat but the war has gone on for so long, it has become remote to most of us.

      However, every time there is a terrorist attack on our soil whether successful or not, we lose a little more of our freedom, e.g. TSA. This is called a force multiplier because all it takes it one person to multiply the effects. Essentially, we are doing the same thing with drone attacks. It becomes very difficult to relate to these abstract concepts in a patriotic way.

      We do however, have thousands of broken service men that are returning home, with PTSD and missing parts of their bodies. These people really need our help and to me that is where true patriotism come into play. The First Lady has a program called Wounded Warrior that helps rehabilitate these people back into our society. To me,if people really wanted to be pariotic, they would participate in something like this.

      I applaud your sincerity and courage to write such a frank and forthright piece. Anybody can say support the troops, but to support them when they really need it requires real effort on our part. Great article voting up useful and sharing

    • fivedeltaone profile image

      fivedeltaone 5 years ago

      Well I am sure you have really researched this topic and you have developed your opinion through an unbiased process of both consultation and first hand experience but I would tend to disagree to a certain extent.

      First off I am sure I don't have your vast education in the subject mostly because I went to college before Sept. 11th and professors hadn't become experts in overseas conflict so there was no one to tell me how to think about it. That being said as a Soldier who has been in the military over ten years as a Green Beret Special Operator I have had a somewhat different experience overseas than you seem to have had. So I will speak from my personal experience because honestly that is the only subject any of us are qualified to speak from, as I am sure you would agree.

      I have never been part of any operation that has forced democracy on any country: Even in my time I spent deployed in Iraq we allowed the people to choose the government that they wanted. Now that idea of allowing the people to choose has been very upsetting for some, but mostly because we emphatically supported the idea that all adult persons should be given a voice not just men. As a part of the United States, which is a Constitutional Republic (not a democracy) why would we force a political system that we don't even use?

      I have never in my service to my country ever killed an innocent person: This one was actually harder to do than I originally thought. Unfortunately on an operation to take into custody a "terrorist" (I only call him that because he was running a EJK House (extra Judicial KIlling House)) who had with his cohorts captured about three dozen Christian and Shiite Muslims and was torturing and killing them because they believed differently than he did. Anyway when my team and I made entry at the breach point we came under fire and realized the "Terrorists" (I apologize for the use of the word but I lack the educated lexicon that would otherwise provide the correct euphemism) were using their captives as human shields which forced us to aim very carefully and at great risk to ourselves so as to not injure an innocent.

      I really believe I did go overseas to fight for freedom: When deployed on more than one occasion my mission was, "protect local populace, provide security such that the people will have the confidence to exercise their new found freedom and rights to partake in the political process." In your experience overseas you may have been put on a mission to just kill indiscriminately or to protect an oppressive regime that uses rape, torture and murder to maintain power but personally I have never been sent to do that so I will just plead ignorance. That being said I may not have all the experience you have because I have only been to; Iraq, Afghanistan, Zambia, Thailand, Korea, Oman, Yemen, Qatar, Sudan, Ethiopia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Zanzibar, Egypt, Somalia and various other African and Middle-eastern countries.

      You do make a point though that I agree with and that is if I wasn't getting paid I wouldn't go because if I wasn't getting paid by and sponsored by a recognized country state I would no longer meet the criteria put forth by the geneva convention and to do so would make me a foreign war fighting criminal much like the Egyptian guy I rendered medical care to because his VBIED caught fire before he made it to his intended target even though he was not sponsored by any nation state but was paid by a "terrorist group." Come to think of it every person that has ever shot at me or tried to kill me for being an American was paid by some group be it; Al Qaeda, the Golden Group, J.A.M., 1611, Al Shabab or any number of other groups that are funded entirely for the purpose of eliminating everyone who is not muslim. That being said they are definitely not all paid the same, for example the bomb makers are always paid better than the emplacers but neither of them are paid better than the financiers. The one caveat of course was that time that J.A.M. strapped a bomb to a mentally handicapped gentleman and brought him to a market place to blow up a bunch of other muslims; when we found him and disarmed the device I don't think he was paid but you probably know better than me.

      I think many Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen are good role models: First off not all service members are Soldiers that being said service members are a subset of the population as a whole so they will have all the flaws and warts that the population has even though we try to select out psychopaths, sociopaths, the cowardly, the mentally incapable, and the physically incapable. In fact only 25% of young people have the capability to join due to various factors. There are of course some less spectacular people who join the military but they are definitely not the majority. The role model who I try to emulate is a friend of mine named Robb Rolfing, Robb was also a Special Forces Soldier who graduated with a degree in astrophysics and later became a professional soccer player he joined the military after Sept. 11th and he and I went through the Special Forces Qualification Course together. I think an upstanding guy like Robb is an excellent role model not just due to his genius intelligence but also because of his kind heart and gentle nature. One night on an operation to take into custody a terrorist, Robb was killed because he waited to identify a target as armed (you are never allowed to shoot and unarmed person) while asking to see the hands of his killer Robb waited and his killer pulled a rifle up from behind a wall and killed him. RIP SSG Robb Rolfing.

      As a Soldier I feel good about what I have done and I know I don't have the huge positive influence that a university professor or an occupy wall street protester has but in my small way I feel as though I have made a positive impact. Through the military I have provided wells of fresh water, I have built schools, I have delivered over a dozen babies, I have pulled decayed teeth, I have dewormed entire villages, immunized whole regions, I have pulled children out of burning houses, I have pulled friends out of burning humvees, I have seen the world, I have attended christian services in China, I have attended muslim services in the United States, I got to help out after Hurricane Katrina, I have helped plant crops in Ethiopia, I meet the president of Zanzibar, I provided amputations in war torn country after long forgotten land mines took their victims, I have watched whole countries cheer in the street and I have been there to cut the chains of tortured captive who committed no crime but loving Jesus. I know I may not have your huge education and intellect and I apologize if you feel victimized by your society but I promise you if that victimization ever becomes more than imagined it will be a man or women wearing a uniform like mine that rescues you.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
      Author

      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      You sound like the exception to the rule, fivedeltaone. I don't think you are representative of the whole, if what you say is true. Thanks for your comment.

    • Gemini Fox profile image

      Gemini Fox 5 years ago

      Wow! Hard to actually write a comment on this as it would really take a hub there are so many thoughts flying through my mind!

      Do agree with you wholeheartedly for the most part. But think that the first three comments on here are reasons why I do support the troops even though completely against US imperialism . . . so many of these people have, without any real thought, 'drunk the koolaid' so to speak. They are totally brainwashed into thinking that they really are 'Fighting for Freedom' . . . which sounds patriotic but they're only kidding themselves (maybe they don't even realize it or don't want to admit it) and for that reason I do feel sorry for them - they are being used (especially if you believe as I do that the only 9/11 conspiracy is the government's explanation of events). Think the military is going to tell them, "Ok, boys and girls, Halliburton wants to increase its profits by 150% next quarter so we're asking you to risk life and limb by going to war in Iraq!"? Hah! Hellooo people, there's a reason why those Congressmen/women's kids aren't signing up!! Don't you think that if you were all 'Fighting for Freedom' that they would be?

      Ok, starting to ramble . . . thanks for writing what I think a lot of people think but don't say . . . or are afraid to say.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
      Author

      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      Gemini Fox, I agree with you about the koolaid! And as a friend on Facebook also mentioned, many of these kids come from lower income families, so yeah, a secure paycheck definitely comes into play here. Like I say in the article, I'm not trying to bash anyone, or judge, but I think it's time we as Americans stop following what we are told to do by government leaders. Just because the president says we should be patriotic and "fight for our freedom," doesn't mean we should all go blindly into battle. thanks for the comment!

    • fivedeltaone profile image

      fivedeltaone 5 years ago

      I know for a fact I am not the exception to the rule it is what all Special Forces Soldiers do to live up to our motto "De Oppresso Liber" (to free the oppressed). In fact I often feel humbled to stand next to my fellow service members and see the amazing things they do that will never be reported. I don't know this "Rule" you talk about but service members are mostly young adults who have a very real understanding of right and wrong who are just trying to be part of something great that can change the world for the better and make a place on a cruel planet. I know there are people out there that would love to make villains of half the world and victims of the other half, just get out there and see it for yourself. Become a person who seeks to understand other social groups instead of just bashing on a bunch of young adults who are trying hard to do some good (most of them). When I watch the violence, disorder and hate in the occupy wall street movement I know (and I am sure you agree) most of them are just kids and they are not all the rapist, sexual assaulters, crybabies and lazy freeloaders that the media portrays them as. It just really makes me sad to see so much hate that is obviously manufactured by others instead of the knowledge that comes from experience.

    • Gemini Fox profile image

      Gemini Fox 5 years ago

      Sorry, emma - writing last comment and when posted saw fivedeltaone's new one . . . and I get as fired up about this as you do . . .

      Perfect example of the complete ARROGANCE of the US and another reason why it is very hard to support US troops:

      "I have never been part of any operation that has forced democracy on any country: Even in my time I spent deployed in Iraq we allowed the people to choose the government that they wanted. Now that idea of allowing the people to choose has been very upsetting for some, but mostly because we emphatically supported the idea that all adult persons should be given a voice not just men. As a part of the United States, which is a Constitutional Republic (not a democracy) why would we force a political system that we don't even use?”

      Holy Cow! Seriously?! I’m not sure where to even begin with this gem! You mean after we invaded their country under false pretenses, killed 100,000+ (some say a mil+) of their civilians (although since you were not sent overseas to “kill indiscriminately” maybe you haven’t heard these statistics yet!) and destroyed their society? Wow, that's big of you . . . impressive! They may have been ruled by a dictator but they had running water, sewer systems . . . you know, some semblance of a society - now they're living in rubble (same thing with Libya – and not something the media here in this country talks about). Not only that but the factions in Iraq have been fighting for hundreds of years and aren’t likely to stop any time soon – but we big, bad Americans thought we were going to go in there and straighten them out! Furthermore, it’s a pretty well known fact that the US going into Iraq did not stop terrorism but SPREAD it!

      “[. . .] you feel victimized by your society but I promise you if that victimization ever becomes more than imagined it will be a man or women wearing a uniform like mine that rescues you.”

      Not very comforting and maybe not even true as there are those who say we as Americans should start being afraid of what our military can do to our own people. The treatment of OWS (which you obviously don’t understand) people being a perfect example – the violence, disorder and hate you speak of was perpetrated by our own police.

      “[. . .] mostly young adults who have a very real understanding of right and wrong who are just trying to be part of something great that can change the world for the better and make a place on a cruel planet.”

      Again, the arrogance is astounding! That koolaid was apparently spiked! What makes you think that YOUR version of right or wrong is right?! And what makes you think you have the right to force your beliefs on anyone else?!

    • profile image

      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      @PeggyW: Thank you for your family's sacrifices-both at war and at home.

      WWI

      On July 28th, 1914 Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia, effectively starting WWI. The USA declares neutrality.

      1915: The American boats Lusitania and Sussex were sunk, ending more than 120 lives from a German U-Boat.

      April 6th, 1917: The USA Declares war with Congress's permission.

      WWII

      September 3rd, 1939: Great Britain and France declare war on Germany.

      September 5th, 1939 The USA formerly announces that it is a neutral country.

      On November 7th, 1941 Japan attacks the USA at Pearl Harbor. The USA declares war on Japan.

      I could go on...the next couple of decades aren't as clean cut-as the US willingly got involved in other wars to stop the spread of communism after WWII and whatnot, but I can explain those too if you want. Any Takers?

      It's interesting to me that you are essentially labeling our military as a bunch of overpaid, stupid, power hungry, monsters that joined up because we are either too stupid to understand the decision or because we made a series of bad choices in life. You do it with such conviction despite not knowing any real history of the wars in which the USA has fought-or the history leading up to those wars.

      I am not saying that you should or shouldn't lend your support to the military. I honestly couldn't care less.

      All I'm asking of you is to at least make a compelling argument. Or hey-do actual research, but we do live in a free country so...

      As far as for Iraq-I can't tell you what life is like for the local nationals outside the wire, because I was inside that wire most of the time during my deployment.

      War is ugly. However there are also events that happen during war that ARE good. That's bad press though, so you'll never hear about that.

      In conclusion:

      I volunteered to serve. I understood the risks. I'd do it again.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
      Author

      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      No problem Gemini Fox. Thanks for tackling that one.

      Squirrel, We disagree on many things, apparently. Sure, on the surface war always seems to be necessary. The way you paint it no one would even guess that there may have been other reasons to get involved. While I am no expert in WWI or II, I do know that the current wars we are in are purely compelled by greed, not freeing the oppressed. All the war profiteers that are benefiting from our tax dollars can attest to that. I'm sure previous wars weren't too different. There is always an ulterior motive disguised as "let's free the oppressed." So my argument isn't compelling? That is your right to think that. It's my right to speak my mind.

    • fivedeltaone profile image

      fivedeltaone 5 years ago

      Dear Gemini; I had no intention of making you upset I was just speaking from my personal experience. It is somewhat sad to me that you would get so obviously upset at me and I have no ill will toward you I was just trying to include another point of view but I guess I should just stay out of it and let you guys hang out and have a love fest.

      As far as Iraq and the war is concerned you unfortunately have no real idea about what happened over there, what the intelligence that lead to war was and no clue about the pre war society; just leave it be, instead of looking foolish to those who actually know.

      The idea that the police orchestrated this conspiracy (in OWS) against the American people and conducted it in such a way as to lead the populace to believe a total false hood presupposes a hypercompetency that I have a hard time believing exists.

      To say that my belief that young adults are generally good natured is not arrogance (though I have been called naïve) nor is it Kool Aid (talking point), maybe you just need to go out there and participate in all the great stuff happening out there like Habitat for Humanity or do a Mission overseas with the Red Cross or your local church (I am sure you are a psuedointelectual atheist but hey it was worth a try).

      Again I respect your opinion but I think you would have a different one if you turned off the T.V. and just spent five or six years overseas like the rest of us.

      God Bless You and have a phenomenal 4th of July (paid for by the blood of great patriots and our Founding Fathers/Mothers.)

    • profile image

      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      I don't just "think" that-I make oaths.

      Our reasoning for going to war in 1917 and again in 1941 was essentially revenge.

      Iraq WAS oppressed. Under Saddam's direction, anyone whose ideas didn't conform to the Baath party's ideals were subject to summary execution.

      Over 600,000 civilians were murdered and counting, his power and thirst for blood was well known and growing. His people were afraid to celebrate his capture for fear of retribution.

      I do believe that people have used war for their own financial benefit. (Momma didn't raise no fool!) However the reasoning behind declaring war isn't always profit masked with good intentions, either.

      Politics are for politicians.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
      Author

      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      Squirrel, whether they were oppressed or not did not mean we had the right to invade their country. And, I know many Iraqi refugees who swear that Iraq was a better country BEFORE our little intervention. One of those happen to be my spouse of ten years. So, save it. U.S. soldiers didn't go over there to "help" anybody but themselves.

    • Gemini Fox profile image

      Gemini Fox 5 years ago

      fivedeltaone: nor do I have any ill will towards you either – I don’t know you. I was just responding/reacting to your comments which display the arrogance of which I wrote. Comments such as yours are actually good in a discussion such as this because they reveal the attitude that so many of us abhor – that unfortunately escapes you. Your comments also reveal that you cannot address any of the facts that I brought up – such as the 100,000+ innocent Iraqi civilians killed . . . a minor detail to you apparently. Just keep waving that flag!

      Can I speak from the experience of being in Iraq? No, I can’t. But I do read and am very aware that the reality was not exactly as portrayed by the media – even the media admits that today! It is pretty much common knowledge that the war was started on false pretenses . . . not feeling particularly foolish here because everyone knows that. Funny you haven’t heard – I’m going to make a wild assumption and guess you listen to Fox “News”.

      Can’t understand your statement about OWS. I am talking about the violence the police committed against people (for no reason) who were peacefully demonstrating (their Constitutional right) and that the police in this country are being armed more and more like the military than ever before . . . and one has to question why.

      Nice try but your comment was not about young adults being good natured:

      “[. . .] mostly young adults who have a very real understanding of right and wrong who are just trying to be part of something great that can change the world for the better and make a place on a cruel planet.”

      That statement is about changing the “world for the better” according to US standards = ARROGANCE. “Changing the World for the Better”, of course, being a part of the Kool Aid recipe. Along with a hefty dose of “Fighting for Freedom”.

      I have participated in Habitat for Humanity . . .

      I have lived overseas . . .

      I had a mother who lived in America but remained a British citizen throughout her life . . .

      I am part of the probably .01% of Americans who currently does not have a TV . . .

      I do not consider myself to be pseudo-intellectual or especially intellectual – just someone who actually thinks about what I’m being told by the powers-that-be (and questions it) and doesn’t just immediately assume all sound bites to be true. Quite a concept to people like you, I realize.

      I am not an atheist but consider organized religion to be the height of hypocrisy and am going to assume from your writing that you consider yourself to be “Christian”. Now, I am no expert on the Bible but I do believe that there’s a little bitty part in there that says something about “Thou shalt not kill” . . . you know, one of those Ten Commandments that even atheists know about. Did you miss that one? Or do you just choose to ignore it?

      Hope you have a good 4th, too! Keep waving that flag!

    • emmaspeaks profile image
      Author

      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      WOW! You nailed it, Gemini! And yeah, most "patriots" will ignore facts and just keep waving the flag. That, to me, is arrogance. Well said!

    • profile image

      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      Emma, there's no nice way to say this-but you need to do your research. You can't back up your opinion with anger and not fact.

      The military doesn't decide which nations to fight-The President and Congress do. In order to declare war on a nation-you have to have a good reason and you have to get it approved.

      In order to get it approved through congress you have to appeal to the American people for support, or the American people appeal to the government for intervention (like in Somalia in 1993.)

      Why would anyone flee to the country that they fundamentally oppose? I'm not being condescending, I am asking.

      You don't understand what war really is and maybe its not your place to, but I was there. I looked into the eyes of those who didn't have the means to flee, talked with them and saw the progress that was made and how precious life is.

      Is war a good thing? No. War is NEVER a good thing.

      At times, it is a necessary thing. So I won't save it just to satisfy your opinion. If you really cared about the topic and not the numbers you would've done your research.

    • profile image

      Jonny Jihad 5 years ago

      ITT: People who don't know soldiers are political tools and therefore cannot choose orders

    • Peggy W profile image

      Peggy Woods 5 years ago from Houston, Texas

      Your words...

      "Secondly, soldiers today are not fighting to protect any American freedoms as none of them have been taken away from us by the Iraqis, or any other nations we are attacking right now. Guess what, Vietnam didn't take anything away from us, either. Neither did Germany. We CHOSE to get involved in all of those wars based on superficial nonsense. Now, I agree that Hitler had to be stopped, but don't come on here crying about your families military history and how noble and patriotic you are when in essence, they did nothing for me. I, nor anyone else in America was in danger of being attacked."

      I'm glad to see at least you saw a reason to intervene with regards to Hitler...even though his evil was not on our doorstep. So by that statement...you obviously agree that there are times we (as a country) need to take actions even if our own lives are not at stake. Obviously except for Hitler, you would rather become isolationist and let the evil doers have their way and only...if and when it affects us at home...you would then agree that our soldiers should start defending us?

      Should we stand by and just do nothing when another several thousand people...men, women and children...are killed on U.S. soil? If the Twin Towers was not enough to enlist some patriotism on your part...what is? Should we wait until an entire city is wiped out? Would THAT make you happy to start supporting the training and effort that goes into becoming a U.S. soldier? They are trained to defend and protect us during peace and war.

      They also help during disasters, as has already been noted by someone who has honorably served.

      I am proud of my family's military history and none of them were involved because of impoverished backgrounds as you intimated with one of your comments. This will be my final comment. I only pray that our freedoms continue and you can continue writing whatever you wish because that is your right...at least as it stands now. People in other countries do not have that right.

      God bless our soldiers and the U.S.A.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 5 years ago from Placentia California

      We invaded Iraq under false pretense. Colin Powell convinced the U.N. That there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq by presenting PowerPoint slides of artists concepts of chemical trucks. They were drawings. I'm sure you have seen many intelligence reports that were actual photographs of threats, not some artists drawings. I could not believe my eyes when I saw that. I appreciate your loyalty and your duty and honor, but there were many people killed and maimed and still are under false pretense. It turns out that are military is the biggest victim. When Colin Powell is now interviewed, he regrets what he did, but being the good soldier, he acted under orders of the Commandr in Chief, George Bush. They never did find any weaponsof mass destruction. Saddam Hussien was a threat to his neighbor Israel and we served as their military to protect them.

    • Kathleen Cochran profile image

      Kathleen Cochran 5 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia

      One of those happen to be my spouse of ten years.

      Now I understand.

      You have every right to express your opinions. That is what has been bought for you by the lives given in service to their country.

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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      I'll try to address the last few comments with one post. This article isn't arguing that soldiers make any decisions concerning who or when to fight. It is exactly because soldiers DON'T make decisions, other than to blindly obey, that I am writing this. As for "intervening," there is a difference between being a neutral third party that is there to facilitate fair political processes in a nation and taking advantage of it. You can paint this picture any way you want to, but all you U.S. soldiers have done is protect the capitalist interest of this country. You haven't protected ANY freedoms, other than the freedom of the free market. You haven't protected my individual freedoms at all because no Iraqi or Afghan or Pakistani is threatening to take them away. Really? Are you so scared of a handful of third world countries that we need to send hundreds of thousands of troops overseas to blow innocent people up? And this to you is heroic? I'm trying to be as nice and unbiased as I can but all I read on some of these comments are excuses and lame justifications. Every soldier in the U.S. has a mind and the ability to process information. Before blindly obeying orders perhaps he should employ them instead of his rocket shooter.

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      Mike Russo 5 years ago from Placentia California

      emmaspeaks: I agree with everything that you said in your last comment, except this part: "Before blindly obeying orders perhaps he should employ them instead of his rocket shooter."

      You have to understand, that once you are in military service, it is your duty by law to follow what your superiors tell you to do. You can be court martialed, and executed for treason for not obeying. That's the way it has been since the beginning of time. It's called the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and every person that is and has been in the military knows this.

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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      I understand that, peoplepower. I understand it perfectly fine, but I also know that when asked to do something that you just know is wrong, you are the one that has to live with that decision. I left a high paying job because I just got to the point where I couldn't live with myself anymore if I continued to do for one second more. I wasn't in danger of being court marshaled, but I did face no income. And there are people, like Bradley Manning, that have gone against orders to do what is right. It is not impossible to do. That is what takes courage, not blindly following orders. That is what is truly heroic. I see absolutely no heroism in terrorizing innocent villagers that had absolutely nothing to do with America's problems. And going along with that just to avoid a court marshal is cowardly.

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      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      The Uniform Code of Military Justice, states under Articles 90, 91 and 92 that it is a crime to willfully disobey an order/NCO/Officer. (Article 90 also states that in times of war, if a service member disobeys a superior commissioned officer-the punishment can be death.)

      However, these Articles revolve around the obedience to LAWFUL orders.

      If I was told to do something for a superior that is considered unlawful or a crime under the UCMJ and I OBEYED that order-I could be charged with a crime because I took part in something illegal/unlawful-even though I was told to so by my superiors.

      So I agree with you wholeheartedly. "I was just following orders," IS the defense of the cowardly (in most cases.)

      Not knowing your rights as a service member-which could prevent the possibility of moving to Quantico/Leavenworth, being handed a dishonorable discharge-along with a lengthy hearing-is absolutely NO excuse for following an order that you know is wrong or unlawful.

      Now, in the case of PFC Bradly Manning:

      While overseas he had a pending discharge for adjustment issues. That stemmed from punching a female analyst, gender identity issues and boyfriend trouble. He took that to his leaders-they removed the bolt from his rifle (so he couldn't kill himself or others,) and they set him up to talk to a psychiatrist who came to the conclusion that he needed to be discharged.

      So, Manning decided to leak information which includes the Iraq/Afghan war logs-putting numerous Iraqi/Afghan lives at risk as well as American military and civilian contractor lives; Embassy information, US National Defense Information, etc.

      He faces numerous violations of Article 92 (Disobeying orders) and 134 (conduct unbecoming) as well as being in violation of the Espionage Act and various other charges. (Aiding the enemy, etc.)

      So you can say Manning is so wonderful because he released all this sensitive information-but in my opinion-he has done as much damage and has as much blood on his hands as the guys who went rogue and killed civilians.

      Again-Not knowing your rights is NEVER an excuse. Especially if you know that you will be charged.

      However being forced to blindly obey unlawful orders-yeah, we are told to disobey those unlawful orders or we WILL get charged with the crime.

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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      Right, and all the U.S. has to do to cover its ass when it has broken a law is change that law. There are so many excuses and ways of making it seem like wreaking havoc on innocent people is all in a day's work. Like I said before, paint it any way you want, it's still wrong. I bet that must sting to know that all your "hard work and efforts" have been for naught. Ask any Iraqi refugee here in the U.S. Things were better when Saddam was alive, not because he was a peach, but because at least they had a country that wasn't in complete chaos. That stings, huh? Iraqis prefer a sadistic bastard like Saddam than greedy American bastards that went over there to "help" under false pretenses. That's some sour medicine. You can sit there and come up with all the excuses you want. America has ruined a nation and destroyed millions of people's lives out of greed. Deal with it.

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      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      The Iraqi people haven't known anything EXCEPT a militarized government since 1958.

      In 2003 we overthrew Saddam's government and put an interim administration in power, which represented the entire Iraqi population.

      By 2008 the fighting had virtually stopped after the surge, (save for sectarian violence,) and the Iraqi government has since amended their constitution.

      In addition, the agreement that was made between our governments outlined and gave specific responsibilities to the Iraqi government during the drawn down that began in 2009-including the control over US Operations within Iraq.

      So by your logic, I can label you as a horrible parent based on the actions of Casey Anthony? If not-why not? Its the same logic. I'll tell you why-The logic is not sound.

      Take a breath and do your research.

      Why would I make excuses?

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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      Sadly, Squirrel, all you are doing is regurgitating "facts." You aren't even touching the human component. Typical. I bet on paper what the U.S. did looks real good. Guess what? You're wrong.

    • profile image

      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      Facts that have yet to be disproved. By you. Who hasn't been there and relies solely on opinion.

      Here are some more facts for you:

      -According to the Iraqi Government's official tally: 85,694 Iraqi civilians were killed – a rate of 1,477.5 deaths per month during the war in Iraq. (These are just Iraqi civilians.)

      (Edited: the SMH puts the current death toll at 162,000 Iraqi deaths during the total 9 years of war, despite what the Iraqi tally says.)

      -Comparing the above number with Saddam's 286 month rule-tallied: 856,000 Iraqi deaths at a rate of 3,053 deaths per month.

      -Comparing the above numbers with Clinton's embargo over 108 months (Sanctions,) tallied an estimated: 1 million Iraqi deaths at a rate of 9,259.3 deaths per month.

      The Iraqi defense, interior and health ministries have estimated that from 1 November 2008 to 31 August 2009: 3,045 Iraqi casualties at a rate of just 304.5 deaths per month.

      Now, what does all the above mean? Well, according to the websites I got all of this information off of:

      Saddam's death rate: 2.33 times greater than Bush's.

      Clinton's death rate: 7.1 times greater than Bush's.

      So if Bush's invasion didn't conclude Saddam's rule OR the embargo, a total of 836,019 Iraqis would be dead.

      It is currently estimated that the lives of at least 100,000 Afghan children alone-have been saved by our forces in Afghanistan.

      If you are asking me to explain why there aren't any stories of heroism by our troops in the mainstream media-its because the mainstream media won't report them. Good doesn't sell. Evil does.

      My sources include:

      http://www.smh.com.au/world/iraq-war-death-toll-pu...

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/dec/14/100...

      http://halfdone.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/are-more-...

      http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/bush-sa...

    • emmaspeaks profile image
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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      You're right. I personally haven't been there. My spouse has. He was an Iraqi soldier in the Gulf war, a prisoner of war for six years in Saudi Arabia, and a refugee. He went back home after 18 years of not being able to see his family just a few years ago, AFTER this war and was heartbroken by what he saw. All you are reciting are numbers and statistics. It is YOU that have yet to prove that the U.S. did anything but harm the Iraqi nation. Take all your numbers and "facts" and shove them. For someone who claims to not be political, it sure seems like you have an agenda. And by the way, I'm not relying on the media as a source. I live with what the U.S. has done to destroy a nation everyday. I HAVE talked to people still in Iraq. I have yet to speak to anyone who thinks the U.S. did anything good.

    • profile image

      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      No, actually-I've proven that we've (USA) not only killed less Iraqis than the former dictator did-but that we've brought the law of averages for those deaths down by more than half.

      So can you HONESTLY tell me how saving lives is NOT a good thing? Or are you just mad because nothing was fixed overnight?

      The country IS rebuilding. What you fail to realize is that the USA has been rebuilding what was destroyed since the beginning and we have pledged MILLIONS of dollars to the Iraqi government to help facilitate their rebuilding efforts and Iraq will be built stronger than it was before.

      But it was never going to happen overnight. Life just doesn't work that way.

    • Gulf Coast Sun profile image

      Gulf Coast Sun 5 years ago from Gulf of Mexico

      Wow, war and racism are the two largest comments on Hubpages because it 'fires' everyone's blood. Not everyone will agree with you or disagree with you and I'm sure you're not here to win any popularity contests. Being honest with one's feelings on a public site takes guts, as long as it's not demeaning to anyone. Now with that being said, I have come across many, many, many US soldiers, who are on their third and fourth tour of duty. They volunteered for this country because they believe in the freedoms so precious to us. No one is born with the ability to kill another human being. No one is raised with the mind-set that they will go to other countries to fight. And no one wants to see us lose our freedoms and strength. My brothers volunteered for the Vietnam War. My son and daughter did not volunteer for the Iraq war because they were afraid to go over. If I were their age, I would have followed my brothers footsteps. I totally agree with Peoplepower73, a wise and educated man. Take heed to his advise. Thanks for the article.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      Like Gemini said, keep waving the flag. It helps when you are trying to convince yourself of B.S.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 5 years ago from Placentia California

      Gulf Coast Sun: What did I say that emmaspeaks should take heed to? Thanks for the compliment anyway!

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      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      Actually, I am not worthy of the honor.

      In each unit, one war fighter is chosen by the unit leadership to be the guidon bearer.

      This is an honor because the position goes to the one who has proven themselves to be the best-Honor, fitness, marksmanship, leadership.

      Those qualities (and more) are exemplified through this individual at the highest level. To be subpar and a guidon bearer is to be in a unit by yourself.

      Where do I fit in? I'm more of the runt that will surprise you.

      I sincerely hope that eventually you do your research-that way you can defend yourself...no matter the endeavor or the topic.

      In the meantime-I have a book to read. :)

    • Kathleen Cochran profile image

      Kathleen Cochran 5 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia

      "I personally haven't been there. My spouse has. He was an Iraqi soldier in the Gulf war, a prisoner of war for six years in Saudi Arabia, and a refugee. He went back home after 18 years of not being able to see his family just a few years ago, AFTER this war and was heartbroken by what he saw. "

      Folks there is no point arguing with this woman. Look at her experience.

      You are giving her an opportunity to vent, which she no doubt needs. But, you're not going to change her mind or even make a dent.

      Fi ammon Allah.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      No point arguing with me? Is that because you know I'm right? That's okay, you don't have to admit it. And it's funny how MY comments are just venting, but the people who post things that you agree with are factual. I bet you watch FOX, too. Keep waving the flag people. I doubt there is a flag big enough to cover up all the harm the U.S. has done to other countries, not just Iraq, but keep waving it just the same.

    • Gemini Fox profile image

      Gemini Fox 5 years ago

      Squirrelgonzo: We’re supposed to be happy because the US ONLY killed 100,000 innocent Iraqis?! That is probably the most sick, twisted logic imaginable. Your comments also reveal not only the arrogance of the military’s attitude but that to you it’s all just about numbers (“civilian casualities” . . . or, no, I guess maybe the correct military term is “collateral damage”) and, worse, some of you seem to view it as some kind of game – do you get little gold stars for your “marksmanship”?! The reality is that most Iraqis were living somewhat normal lives as most people in this world do until they were invaded by “Boys (and Girls) and Their Toys” playing Rambo.

      And you are STILL missing the point – Bush invaded Iraq under false pretenses (and the proof that he was aware of that is coming out). Invading Iraq was about oil, war profiteering and probably revenge for his Daddy all wrapped up in a “Fighting for Freedom” bow. “Saving” the Iraqi people from a dictator was not anywhere close to the top of his list – so don’t use it as an excuse in hindsight to say that the invasion of Iraq was a good thing! Bush couldn’t have cared less about the Iraqis.

      To put it another way:

      - the US was “best buds” with Saddam Hussein in the 80s and SUPPLIED him with WMDs and the chemicals he used to poison his people!

      - the US stood by and did nothing about Rwanda . . . no oil there!

      - the US isn’t doing anything about North Korea . . . because, by golly, they really DO have WMDs! – better not touch them!

      - the US is playing best friends with the brutal dictator of Kazakhstan . . . because of oil!

      - the US invaded Afghanistan . . . because of oil!

      The US plays “friends forever” with whatever violent dictator happens to be beneficial to them at the time – until he is no longer useful to them, at which point they use him as an excuse to invade. But to get the “runts” (to use your word although I think you meant “grunts”) to go to war the military and government HAVE to wave the flags and administer the Kool Aid – otherwise not even you would show up.

      BTW, your last two “sources” are not legit – they’re a joke – they’re badly written blogs, ie. “opinions”.

      And, no, Iraq is not rebuilding – it’s falling apart – and here’s a real source (Associated Press):

      http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Iraqis-face-lon...

      Not only that, but as time goes on evidence is surfacing that our interference in Iraq only strengthened Iran. And our interference in Libya has spread violence into the surrounding areas of Africa. YOU need to stop watching Fox “News”/mainstream media and start searching for some of the real facts. Time to free yourself from the Twilight Zone.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      https://hubpages.com/politics/What-US-Soldiers-are...

      I just wrote another hub on this. Feel free to read it and comment. I think I make a much more compelling argument.

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      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      Gemini-First and foremost-I meant "Runt." Not 'Runts' and especially not 'Grunts.' A Grunt is a infantryman in the USMC or the Army. I am NOT an 11B. So again-that is an honored position that I am not worthy of.

      We get marksmanship badges during our annual (or bi annual) rifle qualification. We get to wear them on our dress uniforms; Although if you are part of the President's Hundred or Governor's Dozen Marksmen you are authorized to wear the appropriate patch on your Fatigues.

      So, yes we do get "gold stars" for each level of marksmanship on every weapon system in our arsenal. (It's quite nice really)

      As far as for the Iraqi death toll-THOSE numbers were tallied and issued by the Iraqi Government so that the people of the world would remember how many CASUALTIES there were.

      If the words I use offend you-tough cookies. It's a sign of respect to the people who died in painful and gruesome ways and I will not apologize for showing them that respect.

      The news article you posted states that part of the problem is a dysfunctional Iraqi government. That government was elected by the Iraqi people. They are still afraid of the insurgency and afraid of sectarian hate and I can't say I blame them for being afraid. I've been afraid too.

      The only US involvement in the Iraqi elections was to ensure that the Iraqis that came to vote were protected.

      Did we build our country overnight? No. Theirs won't be magically rebuilt overnight either and we never promised that it would-or that it would happen easily. However they ARE rebuilding.

      If you ask me if I think that they are better off: Only time will tell. Sounds like-from their words in the news article that while they do expect things to get worse before it gets better-they do know it will get better.

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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      from their words in the news article that while they do expect things to get worse before it gets better-they do know it will get better.

      It will get better once we leave for good. And by leave, I mean completely--not leaving behind a few U.S. corps to rake in profits, which is what will happen. We should have never been there to begin with. We did not make things better. You can cling to that lie all you want. I'm sure it helps you sleep at night.

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      Squirrelgonzo 5 years ago

      Wow.

      you know, this was fun and I'm sure you will take advantage of this message-but I think in lieu of the outright attacks on my character and the lack of any real facts being posted, I am finished here.

      Enjoy the others who may come after me-that won't be as nice or as gracious to your attacks.

    • emmaspeaks profile image
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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      So, anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you? I guess I am a terrorist.

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      Old Empresario 5 years ago

      Lawyers defend our freedoms. Soldiers invade countries and fight wars. I agree with you that the blind platitudes and our "stratophilia" must end. I could go on and on about our military subculture, which has lost its mind, but I think you said it all. It's too bad more people here don't understand, though most people in the real world support you. And here's the ugly truth: most ordinary people who say they "support the troops" don't really care about the troops at all. Saying they support the troops is their polite way of saying, "there's a war on. I don't know anything about it and I don't understand it. I'm not going to do anything to help it or stop it. But saying this makes me feel less guilty".

    • emmaspeaks profile image
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      emmaspeaks 5 years ago from Kansas City

      You got it exactly right, Old Empresario. It is just something people say to relieve themselves of guilt. This country is the laziest country in the world, even when it comes to things like this. We will give up our rights just so we don't have to do anything. Thank you for your comment.

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      Cyle Marr 4 years ago

      I dislike most these comments. I think that any war America has fought that lives were lost or injured that the war was fought for a reason. Like me I will serve my country no madder what the war is about, even if we are fighting for no reason. Yes we are killing innocent people but they are also killing us ween we offer them food,water, and security. Almost my whole family has served in Afghanistan, and Iraq and all of them say that they are proud that they fought there. Stop saying that we are over there for no reason, yes it seems that way but we are really helping those Arabs. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan before we went there. The civilians had no rights,freedom or protection and we were helping them until the hippies and UN felt like we weren't doing a thing but killing the civilians. And yes some of our generals are selfish bastards but most of them are not. I'm 14 and i have decided that if we are still in Afghanistan or back in Iraq I will sacrifice my life for an others freedom and a fellow soldier if I need to. Please don't comment if your a democrat or liberal because i highly dislike you if you are one.

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      Cylemarr 4 years ago

      emmaspeaks i agree with the thing about patriotism most people are unpatriotic

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      Michael Bailey 4 years ago

      This article jumps from logically flawed theses into several non-evidentiary conclusions designed to support a presupposed hypothesis. Simplistic black and white justifications do not account for the complexity of human behaviour.

      I stoutly disapprove of the Iraq war for instance, and feel there was never a reason to go there, other than the long term strategic advantage (if any) to be gained by isolating Iran from the rest of the Middle East. I am sure they also felt like sitting right next to countries like Syria, Russia and Turkey would go a long way towards making the bombing folks behave.

      Nonetheless, without an overt act of physical aggression against the United States, I see no justification to attack any other country. With that I include places like Bosnia or Libya, where it's none of our business who is chasing who around, down there on the ground.

      Obviously treaty partners have to be accounted for.

      If you think the Afghani hills have people who knocked down your financial district, then by all means roll in over there. Make others think twice about letting people like this al Quaeda group or the Taliban hang around in your countryside.

      That's all good. But for God's sake, scorch the place like the hell that war is supposed to be, exact your retribution, then get the heck out of there and back home. Let both us and them heal, recover and move on. That should have been done in a period of months, tops. Guarding poppies so the CIA can deal drugs to Central American druglords holding the weapons our government gave them is no job for a soldier.

      If you aren't in a credit union, if you buy from outlets for slave labor like Walmart with its Chinese products, you can thank your banker for the US presence on so many foreign fields. Blaming the soldier is the easy way out. Thank your teachers and your media for eliminating any potential for critical thought.

      There is ZERO excuse to still be there ten years later building bridges, when bridges are falling down in Minneapolis. I served for 11 years. I won't go into the particulars. But you are expressing a very general, uninformed, wholesale condemnation of thousands of people whom you have never met.

      I don't feel we should even have a standing army. This country was intended, like Switzerland, to have a weak central government, strong states, and a militia with every man a member, not to be a world dominating military power.

      This subversion of our values and our processes will only stop when we all stop throwing bombs at each other. The People are the sovereign in the United States. Get that through all our heads. Our problems do NOT stem from my neighbor being a Democrat and I am a Republican. The problem is that those people in DC are neither Democrats NOR Republicans.

      Most of us, the overwhelming majority, believe probably close to 90 percent in the same things we think this country should be. Until we embrace that and turn united towards those in power who benefit by keeping us all divided, we are going to remain divided.

      And the banksters, corporate fascists and power mad emperors like George W. Bush and Barack H. Obama continue to benefit. They will eat us all for lunch. STOP DIVIDING OURSELVES. UNITE.

    • profile image

      KEJ1958 4 years ago

      I stumbled on this bullshit and since there is FREEDOM OF SPEECH and all of the rest of our FREEDOMS because of the Men and Women who have sacrificed their lives so YOU and me can live in a Nation of FREEDOM I would like to say "FUCK YOU." I am the mother of a Wounded OIF/OEF Veteran which gives me this very right. Oh, and I work in a bank.

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      MarkAK 3 years ago

      Relatives of vets have to believe that their loved ones are fighting--and dying--for some noble cause, because facing the alternative, that they are dying merely to further corporate interests, is too psychologically burdensome. The truth is, at least in my estimation, that none of my freedoms have been in serious jeopardy (from a foreign soverign) since the British burned the White House during the War of 1812. You can say that troops are fighting to protect my rights until you are blue in the face, but you have no actual support for that statement.

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