Right now it looks like Putin/Trump are in agreement about the hacking. Can this issue be addressed without being partisan? Is the future of US democracy at stake? What are Trump's advisors telling him?
For what it's worth, my opinion:
The whole issue is a non-starter, outside of political considerations. Only the very naive can possible think this is the first time or that the US doesn't do the same thing. The internet has resulted in huge possibilities to spread both one sided information and false information; to think that every intelligence group in the world isn't taking advantage of it is foolish. At the most, Russia will get a slap on the wrist and suffer some small loss of face, but that's all.
So no, the future of democracy isn't at stake. At worst, we have another "snake oil salesman" (in the form of those providing faux information) to deal with, but then that's something that has been going on since the country came into existence.
Right now it is an extremely partisan thing, with D's crying crocodile tears and insinuating (with their own false "information") that it was effective and the reason they lost, while R's don't want to mention it for fear that the country will believe the Democratic insinuations. And it will always be so - whoever is thought to have benefited will not mention it while the other side will scream about it with as loud a voice as possible. Spin, nothing more and nothing less, and as partisan as possible.
What are advisors telling Trump? Likely to ignore it while making sure not to step into the quagmire by pretending it didn't happen. Be very PC, in other words: accept it happened but reiterate that there were no results from it. And publicly give Putin a spat on the bottom for his "deplorable" (but expected) actions.
Former CIA? Director Woolsey suggests lowering the price of oil. He resigned as an advisor to Trump last week I think.
I welcome lower gas prices.
You lost me. What will lowering the price of oil do, except put more oil well drillers out of work? And outside of selling off strategic stock, how would the government accomplish lowering the price?
Woolsey said lowering oil prices would cause a financial crisis for Russia. I don't know this to be a fact. That is what he said when questioned about it.
I didn't hear of people losing their jobs when prices were lowered over the past few years. If that is true, it must be a major consideration.
Doing some research online yourself is much better than listen to what you hear on mainstream. The lower oil prices causes companies to not be able to break even. They have to cut their budgets, lower wages, and cutting thousands upon thousands of well paying oil sector jobs. It would not just cause Russia to suffer. Why would we wish recession upon anyone when it would hurt us too.
There are differing views and reasons explored by economist. I am not one. The 2014 oil price drop through accelerated Saudi production is purported to have been a financial hardship for Russia.
I don't make definitive statements about these matters because I'm not an expert. Neither do I look for positions that support how I feel because I stay open. There is a lot of information out there. I like to make sure I'm not basing my information on kooks.
Russia is not considered a friend of the US by Republicans AND Democrats. Past dealings of presidents from both parties have proved that. I'm concerned about the national interest of the US.
Not sure what we could ever do to lower prices in countries Russia is exporting to, or what the middle east is charging. We don't buy anymore, and don't sell very much - what could we do to world prices?
Absolutely the low price is hurting workers. Texas is in bad shape and much of the work in the Dakotas has dried up as well.
On another front, I'm not sure that hurting even our quasi-enemies (not at war but not real friendly, either) is in our national interest. Payback can be hell.
I heard that Congress is considering some sanction other than cyber this coming week. I just pray that the powers that be are considering what's best for the US.
I'm glad that you are, because there is plenty of room for prayer. If you are seeking direction for praying in agreement with spiritual leaders "Word of the Lord for 2017" on Generals International, might be a lovely reference for you, Diane.
I went to the site and saw Cindy Jacobs. I looked her up and saw that she has designated herself a prophet. I didn't read any further. I don't listen to prophets unless they can prove they are prophets. I've never met one.
11 "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for works of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,…" Ephesians 4
Absolutely! We can't believe everybody who says their special surrogates of God. We have to test the spirits. Otherwise, we have "ministers" requesting that we fund airplanes, amusement parks and lavish lifestyles. I've never been a watcher of religious channels for that reason. The good thing about the Internet is that we get information to make our decisions. Some of those we see are not teachers but motivational speakers. There is nothing wrong with being a motivational speaker as long as we know that that is the person's objective.
There are many Scriptures on discernment. That is why we must study God's Word and process all we experience through the lense of the Holy Spirit.
2 Timothy 4:3-4New American Standard Bible (NASB)
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
Teach me good discernment and knowledge, For I believe in Your commandments.
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
As per Trumps' campaign, his plan is to access Americas' own energy resources. I would assume that means more drilling, fracking and re-opening the many presently closed coal mines. Apparently the environment and the health of Americans is secondary to national commerce. It should, however, lower the price of gas and give jobs to thousands.
I don't put stock in anything neocon James Woolsey suggests. He is known to lie. He was Bill Clinton's adviser so he crossed party lines. To infiltrate? He isn't someone that Trump would put trust in to be in his inner-circle, instead, ask for his advise and then set him in a corner by himself away from the real discussions. I think, Woolsey got to be relevant in the media again, and a few moments of fame in Trump's name.
To focus discussion ...
Lindsey Graham, John McCain Urge Trump to Sanction Russia for Election Hacks
South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham said it would "shake me to my core" about President-elect Donald Trump's judgment if he refused to accept the intelligence community's findings that Russians influenced the election to help him win — and on Friday, that was exactly Trump's response to a classified briefing on the subject.
"I hope you will embrace the intelligence, you will join the Republicans and Democrats to push back against Russia to make sure this stops and doesn't happen again. If after the briefing he is still unsure, that will shake me to my core about his judgment," he said in a joint interview with Arizona Sen. John McCain on NBC's "Meet the Press" conducted prior to Trump's Friday briefing.
Following the briefing, Trump issued a statement in which he continued to refuse to acknowledge Russians were behind the hackings of the Democratic National Committee and one of Democrat Hillary Clinton's top advisers — and insisted "there was absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election." (read article for more)
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politic … my-n704411
Dealing with Russia's attempts to manipulate the US should not devolve into right/left. Such discussion is exactly what Putin wants. We are weakend when we can't agree on anything.
I have staunchly supported Michelle Obama's beauty, intelligence, education, etc., not as a Democrat but as an African American woman who has been marginalized often. I like to evaluate issues on their merits which gets me in trouble a lot because people expect me to go along.
My question would be; Why would Trump or the congress sanction Russia? As per the news conference the other day, all that hacking and helping Trump win the election was a contrivance by AMERICANS! And the implication was that some of those so-called Americans were in fact part of our own intelligence organizations.
I will make one last 'Presidential election process' comment and hopefully that will put an end to this Russian Hack nonsense.
The president does not get elected by the general populace vote on election day even though it would seem that 99.9% of americans think he does. The Electoral college does that. To anyone who thinks the college does NOT elect the president; why did Clinton get over a million more votes than the current president, Donald Trump? Hence, if the general populations vote DID elect the president Hillary Clinton would be president-but she's not. So, if Russia were to 'hack' anything it would have to be the electoral college. Even so, there would be nothing they could actually do by hacking the college to get or prevent any candidate from being elected.
The only thing that has been hacked is the American mind, with the exception that rather than intending to get truthful information from it, corrupt information has been introduced-
CNN being the number one culprit, democratz being a tight second.
If Trump actually fulfills his campaign promises, and it appears he is doing just that, then he will be the first president to do so. The problem is that everything he plans to do will negatively effect the budget draining leaches like the Pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, companies that plan to leave America for cheap labor in other countries and put large numbers of Americans out of work...the list goes on. These budget leaches have been getting away with draining Americans of their hard earned income for so long that they've come to believe that it's an entitlement of some distorted sort. Trump will change that. He's turned down billion dollar business deals and handed over total control of his company to his children and even so he's still a billionaire which makes him unapproachable to special interest lobbyists.
So, anyone with half a brain can see why the powers behind the leaching of Americas wealth would want to discredit Trump in the hopes and intentions of an impeachment.
For all those politicians 'Urging' the president to sanction Russia, they might rather just sthu and get over the fact that Trump is president. Again, half a brain is all it takes to know that America was, is and will continue to do the very things that Graham and McCain seem so upset over Russia doing. Those two 'Champions of Rightiousness' obviously have not considered the fact that Russia is one of the very few countries in the world that would think nothing of engaging in WW III if pressed. They are not 'Cuba' and they are not Iran and they will absolutely NOT sit on their hands and be treated like the third world country of Cuba nor will they stand for foriegn hands in their business (sanctions) like Iran has. They have the means AND the backbone to use them.
As far as Russia 'Attempting' to manipulate anything 'American' goes; They have been doing it since the early 1960s...America has been doing it to them since the late 1940s'. It's nothing new, every country that can do it, does it. So, I would suggest that the notion of Russia wanting Americans to delve into bipolar discussion is of no merit or value. We're already divided by issues more important to national security than whether or not Russian hacks got a good laugh at what went on within the DNC.
In conclusion, I would say that propagating unsubstantiated nonsense simply because some disgruntled democrats and their supporters (CNN) say it is true is a far greater injustice to America than anything the Russians did during the election process. You want to sanction somebody, sanction the contrivers and the propagators.
Are you watching Senate confirmation hearings?
Nah, I prefer original series Star Trek re-runs. I only watched Trumps' news conference because I get a kick out of his frankness and his, 'you push my button I'll push 20 of yours' approach. It's like Raid bug spray for reporters . Considering what he's already put into motion I would say his nominee's won't get much guff during the hearings, which will be little more than them just 'going through the motions'. I still believe Trump won't make it to the end of this term, as his vice President, Pence, was the choice all along. Time will tell!
In the meantime, Spock is about to put the Vulcan 'death grip' on some unsuspecting bad guy, kind'a like Trump did to a few of those reporters at his news conference!
Having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only "stupid" people, or fools, would think that it is bad! We have enough problems around the world without yet another one.
When I am President, Russia will respect us far more than they do now and both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD!
~ Donald J Trump (1 hour ago)
One of the reasons I've backed out of such a strong forum presence =The Average American voter , If they even did vote , has zero conception of true political leadership , The opinions expressed against national leaderships positions ,like Trumps , are full of thoughtless lay-mans rhetoric . Full of holes , devoid of true insight , reason and truth.
One day some forum dwellers here may well evolve into a semi-fluent political intelligence , until then Most of you will keep on with the "sky is falling " level of intellect . You will dwell in the "big bad wolf " category and infighting of party affiliation , Why ? That is all that 90 % of you here are even capable of doing !
Trump will turn out to be at least twice as good as the present lame duck president Pres. Obama , elected out of a simple ,sophomoric national P.C. campaign and ELECTED out of only that ! Yet , More than likely any political accomplishment Trump accomplishes in the end will only have been colored by the blind rhetoric of the ultra-left ,...........Socialism - mission accomplished .
Ahorseback, I should probably apologize first for a sophomoric response, but you left that door open so wide I just had to walk through.
As an Above-Average American voter, how have you determined that the Average American voter "has zero conception of true political leadership..."? Your comment seems to say it is because of all their anti-Trump stuff - like they don't know what the hell they are talking about. The same things you were saying about their political leaders before the election. Now there is the pot calling the kettle black.
... and then there was this:
"The opinions expressed against national leaderships positions ,like Trumps , are full of thoughtless lay-mans rhetoric . Full of holes , devoid of true insight , reason and truth."
Holy cow man, have you forgotten your own forum contributions before the election?
Since the odds are strong that I am part of the 90%, you can be sure that I will eventually evolve into one of those semi-fluent political intelligences you spoke of. I will hold the door for you.
Until then, we can agree on the one point you did get right... voter turnout is more than just an embarrassment, it is symbolic, just not in a good way.
ps. glad to hear the reason for your absence, I thought it was a ban.
GA and ahorse, I am going by the words I hear coming out of people's mouth - not right or left.
While watching confirmation hearings this week, I heard every cabinet nominee hold a 180 degree different position on Russia from that of Trump. It is amazing that he wants to lift sanctions if it will help America???? What the fudge has Putin done for us lately.
Comey - No one is coming out saying this. I'm gathering that American Intelligence was looking into Trump/Putin throughout the election. Comey never said a word about it. He choose to bring out DNC stupidity. I agree they were stupid. If I see you douse yourself with gasoline, does that give me the right to through a lit match at you.
ANYWAY...now there is going to be an investigation of Russia/Trump camp. The chair is the committee is Republican and the co-chair is Democrat. Good!
ahorse, who is establishing criteria for the "zero concept?"
I am SICK of politics.
Thanks for comments guys!
Hello dianetrotter, I hope you won't be offended by a little good-natured(SP?) lecture, but if you are sick of politics - then you shouldn't be here, this stuff could make an Angel cuss sometimes. (I've noticed you prefer religious perspectives of political topics)
So, with a glance at my pedigree wall, (with all those awards, citations, multiple masters, (one a triple Masters on BS, Verbosity, and ...), here is my expert analysis, summation, and recommendations:
You political opinions need some work. What you get from broadcast news, (please don't let your source be Facebook), should almost never be the information that forms your opinion. And neither should partisan talking points. If you don't want to chance being wrong, (heaven help), or to sound like an idiot due to an ill-informed opinion - you must dig deep enough to confirm what you think you know. You might still be wrong, but at least it won't be because you're an idiot.
For instance; the Comey thing, consider how much of your opinion is based solely on the news and what you hear from other folks, then consider whether the timeline of public, political, and media positions played a part. First the Republicans condemned the FBI for not being aggressive or truthful enough. And the Democrats were screaming "Witch hunt!" And the media was generally siding with the Democrats. Then, when Comey came out and both vindicated, (ahem...), and convicted her - both sides thought the FBI was semi-ok. The media followed this pattern too. Then came the second announcement, now, all bets are off... the Democrats are screaming sabotage... etc etc. Now how could this be, a national Good-Guy, Bad-Guy, Good-Guy metamorphosis when nothing really changed factually? So how deep did you dig for your Comey opinion? You may be right of course, but how sure are you?
Next, and this one is the second most important point. If you understand this, you will never be sick of politics, (or political discussions), again. You might become bored with political discussions, but never sick of them. Here it is. Politics now is the same as it has always been - since the 1800 presidential election. Everything is the same, (except the issues of the times of course); the the best and worst parts. Nothing has changed except the players and the issues, the structure is the same, (with some progressive improvements even). And that's not all bad, as nuts as it sounds, (think Trump), we have made progress in increasing political integrity and accountability. Etc. etc. So if you consider that whatever issue is in the spotlight, is just an older issue in a new form, (think the Reconstruction years, Jim Crow, Civil Rights movements - all the same core issue - just new details and directions), then you will have a head-start determining what you need to be comfortable with your opinion. This also gives you the power to just skate around the idiot stuff without feeling challenged by it.
And lastly, (my personal favorite), always have a couple martinis ready.
Well, with a few degrees (BBA, MBA, BA digital/audio recording and voice, passed CPA exam) and more than 20 years of operations audit experience (*had to be extra correct because white people did place a lot of stock in my reports back in the day), I am certainly not gullible.
I use Facebook to communicate with family, friends, students. I post pictures and journals and collaborate on family genealogy. Do they have any news on FB?
I sit through the live broadcasts so I here the words coming out of people's mouths. None of those secretarial candidates supported Trump's position on Russia, immigration, NATO and although they didn't discuss it, I'm sure they don't agree with grabbing ladies by the cat.
Comey, I listened to him explain about HRC back in July and then make his two announcements in late October. All intelligence agencies and Congress said they were aware of the Russia connection possibly with DJT's surrogates. The only person who denied this was DJT himself.
Experience has taught me to be skeptcal and verify, verify, verify. With DJT, he still lies!!!
Yes, I am a Christian. I try not to be overbearing. It turns people off and I certainly don't want to do that. You can be honest with me. Am I?
*Not meant to sound racist - I worked in aerospace defense contracting when I was told that I was the first Black person in the sequential positions I held - 1973-1980. During that time, many felt unqualified Black people were getting jobs because of affirmative action. My bosses would not support me in audit debriefings. After they saw that I didn't need a co-sign, I was made a lead on every Government red team for my department.
Hello again dianetrotter.
I am sorry I was not clear. I was not questioning your effort, (well, maybe a little - I think you are too accepting), or ideology, or education, (I hope you know all that "pedigree" stuff was just comical BS), I was merely noting that if you consider what you are considering in the context that it is just another skinning of the cat, then you won't be upset by the idiocy of it. Then you can discuss all kinds of stuff - from the basic premises, not the ideological rhetoric. For instance, (again),; if you accept the facts of Comey's statements, then you can discuss Comey's actions. That is all there is to discuss - the spin. The facts did not change.
Accepting .... maybe. That's a compliment. Thank you!
I do wonder why Comey made himself the sacrificial lamb. That's where the rumor mill comes in. Some sources(?) say there were agents in New York that would have spilled it. Others say it was Loretta Lynch's fault (I don't know why) for meeting with Clnton on the plane parking lot. Maybe he was trying to have it both ways.
Have you really made thousands of dollars on Hubpages? I've never made enough for them to cut me a check. I suppose you have to write controverisial stuff for ads to rotate on your page.
Ok, I will stick with the Comey illustration one more time.
Look at your first comment I responded too;
"... Comey - No one is coming out saying this. I'm gathering that American Intelligence was looking into Trump/Putin throughout the election. Comey never said a word about it. He choose to bring out DNC stupidity. "
"...Comey, I listened to him explain about HRC back in July and then make his two announcements in late October. All intelligence agencies and Congress said they were aware of the Russia connection possibly with DJT's surrogates. The only person who denied this was DJT himself.
"... I do wonder why Comey made himself the sacrificial lamb. That's where the rumor mill comes in. Some sources(?) say there were agents in New York that would have spilled it. "
The evolution of your comments is obvious to me. The question is what changed?
I would say what changed is that you had to own your comments, rather than just repeat them. Which, brings us full circle to my original point; you should check what you think you know even more than you check what you disagree with.
Comey is really a non-issue. Political powers pushed him into the first statement, and then circumstances, and political powers, forced him into a second statement. Those are the issues to discuss, not the contents, (well, maybe a little), or allegations. The "whys" are where the discussion would be most enjoyable..
Well, actually I was more interested in sanction on Russia.
As usually happens, many sub-discussions come out of a topic. I wonder about Comey but did not choose to discuss him. It is subjective.
The sanction are in place and real. DJT said he will consider lifting them. No conjecture on my part.
And this is why we have the electoral college.
The ENTIRE opposition to Trump campaign and administration , by the left and the left's media puppetry, has been so eloquently exposed to be nothing but a MANUFACTURED OPPOSITION , Political Ideology has become so embedded in the voters minor committed level of invested political education levels as to divide us all permanently . False fact , political bias in the fake media , apathy of enlightenment , manufactured opposition , political correctness . ALL negative on the scale of education and experience.
Those who oppose Trump are shallow , social maturity - intellectually challenged , To people who have been around awhile , the manufactured opposition to Trump is as clear as looking through distilled water . It is so obvious that people of true political intelligence can only shake their heads and straighten their backs and go on fighting into this war against the shallowness of political correctness and oppose the left .
Personally , I would expect far more from the "enlightened " left than such obvious shallowness in political maturity .
Is left v.s. right the same as liberal v.s. conservative?
There is debate about rather DJT is a conservative.
The media theme now is about "uniting" the country. How can that be done in view of partisanship?
Continuing and increasing sanctions on Russia would be a major step in that direction. Shouldn't we all agree?
"Continuing and increasing sanctions on Russia would be a major step in that direction. Shouldn't we all agree?"
Reducing sanctions on Russia would be a major step in that direction (uniting the country). Shouldn't we all agree?
Eliminating sanctions on Russia would be a major step in that direction. Shouldn't we all agree?
Maintaining current sanction levels on Russia would be a major step in that direction. Shouldn't we all agree?
Point being that anything we do would be a major step in uniting the country...IF the people all agreed to it. Deciding that all people already agree in additional sanctions for Russia, and therefore additional sanctions unites, is quite a leap, don't you think?
It's more wishful thinking than anything else.
I hate conflict, especially that that goes on and on. I don't like to argue but prefer coming to some win/win scenarios. Throughout my pursuits of education, training and work relationships that has always been projected as the most viable solution and encourages inclusivity.
There is no way I would become a politician because of all of the assumptions that are made about people. I certainly wouldn't join a political party. I am learning that tweeting has its benefits. DJT was able to win going directly to the people. There are many protests that will go on during the innauguration that were propelled by a single tweet.
I really don't understand it and have been waiting for your insights on the sanctions on Russia topic, Diane.
I just read this article: https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/os … an-economy
From that, my take away is that the globalists bankers have been out to crush Russian banks to collapse the country. That it is apart of the globalization agenda, NWO, which I do not agree with.
The Minsk agreements between Ukraine and Russia, may need to be lifted, and then the sanctions may be lifted. Do you understand it?
There are plenty of experts on the web on sanctions. They are not found on the complicit mainstream propaganda media. Shouldn't we all agree?
We can all be thankful that the Clinton Global Initiative is being discontinued. Shouldn't we all agree?
President Trump and President Putin will meet in Iceland weeks after the ingratiation. We should all be in 'unity' for that to go well! Can we agree with an amen and avoid WWIII? Let China and India go to war over the Himalayas.
That article seems to speak to the effectiveness of sanctions. That is good!
DJT's presence at the Icelandic meeting has been denied by DJT surrogates. I don't know what to believe. Will it keep us from WW IIII?
Putin, himself, is bad news. He is the epitome of a bad leader. Although I am not well informed on the details of Russia, I read/hear that Putin gathers wealth while many of the people are in poverty. Even if DJT/Putin came to an agreement, it would enrich Putin .... not necessarily the Russian people.
Many speak of this. I lived through Nikita Kruschev (sic). Bomb shelters were purchased by those who could afford to pay for them. We had weekly attack drills when I was in elementary school. We got on our knees and prayed.
Putin is not Kruschev! No? 1) Ukraine 2) Aleppo 3) unexplained death of opposition 4) Poland's fear, etc.
We are all at the mercy of the media. Some choose to read things that support their view. I try to read a balance as well as look for the facts. We all become experts in our own minds. I include my experience of the fear of an attack from Russia in 1957-1960.
Thank you, I see Putin said the Sunday Times story was fake news. See, I should have checked that out further this morning.
There is so much fake news and propaganda. All the while avoiding real news. It gets ridiculous doesn't it?
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by Scott Belford 3 years ago
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Donald Trump, as late as January 1, 2017, has refused to acknowledge what most everybody, Democrats and Republicans (less Trump supporters) alike know to be true ... Vladimir Putin is behind the arguably successful attack on America's democracy by swaying American voters to vote for Trump rather...
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