Thanks to IslandBite's link to Mueller's Committee indictment: https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download I am offering what might be a rant.
The Russian "meddling" effort was brilliant! They used technology and our own principles of Rights and open Democracy against us. And they did it with relatively benign criminal activities, like; fake books, identity fraud, and intentionally deceitful financial transactions. I say "benign" only because, their efforts didn't include the biggies like; assassinations, violent burglaries, and other such "serious" illegal activities.
Hold onto your righteous indignation that someone messed with our democracy, (Randy?), and look at the point of the OP; the methods and tools used.
Everyone one is screaming for blood. But... what would you have the government, and the private companies, (like facebook), do?
They developed a verifiable American identity for their operations. Do you expect facebook to be the FBI and go ten layers deep before selling any ads? They impersonated "U.S. persons;" do you expect Twitter or Instagram to ask for SS#s and birth certificates before allowing an account to be opened? They used bots... well, look at how many legitimate U.S. companies and people do - for legitimate purposes, do you expect our government to develop "bot" laws?
Just what do you expect our government and internet companies do to stop this type of activity?
ps. with your answers, consider if your solutions might require "passport-type" documentation to start a blog or open an email or facebook account.
The tragedy is that our country cannot unify against Russia. That's a problem. If we unify, we can then attack the real problem ... Russia, unwilling conspirators and willing conspirators.
Hi Diane. I don't understand your "unify" point. I would think that as a nation we are unified against Russia as a foreign adversary. If you are speaking of our disunity over Pres. Trump and his alleged Russian issues - that is a different issue.
Unity in administering sanctions. Agreeing that they are a threat to our democracy. Implementation of measures that will keep them from trolling, botting, and otherwise messing with us.
No one dares to give a reason why Trump isn't keen to punish Russia, Diane. This is merely one of many reasons we cannot trust this buffoon to do the right thing. What other reason do we need besides Donnie being in Pootie's pocket to figure this one out. When the final chapter to this plot comes to light we'll see just how much Donnie is in debt to the Russians. He's been trying to get permission for a Trump Tower in Moscow for many years so his many claims of not doing business with the Russians are simply more lies. No surprise at this point!
Well, heck! Why don't you tell us all what the reason is? Not your opinion, of course (we all know what that answer would be), but the real reason, straight from Donald Trump. Trumps reason, not just TDS blather.
You know he's done nothing wrong. He tweets about it all the time. Just believe him. But why, why can't he punish Putin. It should be easy because he wasn't involved.
Notice the lack of pro-Trump posters on this subject, Diane. Even the rabid Hillary and Obama haters do not dare to venture an opinion on why the sanctions are not being enforced. It tells a lot about their values as Americans, and their lack of common sense.
I don't understand why every forum or question has to divide us. Those of us who are neutral are pulled into the drama.
I want Trump to extend the sanctions already approved by the Congress and signed by Trump. Why do you think he's reluctant to do so, GA?
I don't know why he hasn't enacted sanctions Randy, but I think he should.
That's the problem GA, no one has an explanation for why he's dragging his feet. This only makes him appear more guilty of kissing up to Putin. We already know Flynn was working to quell sanctions against Russia, and now Trump's delaying the sanctions imposed by congress. If he isn't guilty of colluding with the Russians, he's sure trying hard to appear to be.
@GA, There has to be sanctions implemented. The Department of Justice & the FBI have to thoroughly investigate this collusion. Also there should be more advanced cyber-spying technology tools implemented to detect illegal spying & track such spying which would result in having such spying punished & severely.
Russia has always been adept at the mechanism of spying from its days in the NKVD which had metamorphosed into the KGB. The KGB was highly operative albeit undercover in America, using their spying guile to entrap unsuspecting people to delve secrets-especially female spies who did their best work way undercover. This has always been done but not to the degree it has currently. The KGB has highly advanced technological spying tools even in the 1960s. I read three great books on the KGB as a teenager & saw several documentaries on the KGB. What Russia has done is nothing new at all, just more advanced.
GA, excellent thread, thank you.
Hi gmwilliams, I suspect it was just a mental mix-up, (and not an anti-trump bias faux pas), but the DOJ and FBI, and, Mueller's committee are already investigating the Russian collusion charges. This OP is about the Russian meddling efforts.
As for the sanctions, I have no thought they will stop Russian efforts, or that the Russians won't counterpunch with their own economic blows, but I do see the sanctions as a way to exact a cost for their efforts, and, assure our public that at least something is being done. Even if it can only be mostly for show.
After this demonstrated success, I can't think of any sanction that would actually stop their efforts. I think the most we can do is make those efforts painfully expensive.
Regarding your KGB history points, I think 1990 would be a year to note. That was when the KGB made the decision to refocus their espionage efforts to technology, via the web.
I know that the post was about Russian meddling. I was addressing that. The investigation ought to be extremely thorough, not just a routine investigation. We have to be smarter than the Russian regarding technological savvy. The Russians have been adept spymasters since the NKVD days. They employ methods of spying which make us look like cherubs. The Russians can be quite diabolical, they are quite capable of employing any means necessary to get information. We have to beat the Russians at their own game.
If he does, what do you expect the Russian response to be? Quietly slink away in shame? Never be bad boys again? Or will they fight back with the same weapon (sanctions) and go 20 layers deep next time instead only 10?
You might think twice before wishing punishment onto others for doing the same thing we do all the time.
Spoken like a true Patriot, comrade. I expect Trump to do as Congress voted, that is, carry out the sanctions which will hurt Russia for their meddling. I know you claim we do the same but see no corroborating evidence you've provided.
Spoken by a real Trump hater, a denier of reason. Once more you failed completely to respond to the question asked, so here, let me repeat it for you once again:
"If he does, what do you expect the Russian response to be? Quietly slink away in shame? Never be bad boys again? Or will they fight back with the same weapon (sanctions) and go 20 layers deep next time instead only 10?"
Can you try, just once, to give an honest, thoughtful, reasoned answer instead of just basing Trump and anyone that doesn't join you in that bashing?
Coming from you that's rich, Dan. I've asked you the same question 4 times without a direct response from you. Pot....kettle?
I don't really care what Russia does in response to the sanctions your boy Donnie is afraid to levy on them. I'm ashamed of him for not being tough on our main adversary as you should be if you were indeed a true patriot. So why doesn't he expand the sanctions? 5th time asked....
And as I've stated several times, I'd have to respect Trump first before hating him. As it is, I feel sorry for the nation having him as a leader.
Nice sidestep. But the question wasn't whether you care, it was what you think would happen. No opinion, I guess, except Trump is a bad boy. Can't say I'm surprised, though.
(And you can ask all you want why he doesn't expand sanctions, but I don't know any more than you do. That should be obvious as my name isn't Donald Trump.)
It was brilliant. And they sure got what they wanted, didn't they? A president 63 million voters didn't want.
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