Is There.....HOPE or Is It Hopeless From The Start

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   gmwilliamsposted 7 years ago

   
   Are poor chidren in America society destined to remain poor as their parents & grandparents,  even becoming part of a designed, PERMANENT, impoverished underclass?   Do you believe that such children PRESENTLY will NEVER advance educationally & socioeconomically because of their abject, impoverished conditions?   Do you believe that in order to be successful educationally & socioeconomically, American children must be born into at least solidly middle class  & even at upper middle class levels where there are myriad educational & socioeconomic opportunities?   Are American poor children doomed, even damned because of their socioeconomic circumstances?

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      AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      No, I don't think so. Being able to rise out of poverty requires a lot of different factors to be present, not all of which are in our control. Some of it's hard work, some of it's luck. Some of it's political decisions, marriage to someone of higher socioeconomic status, some of it is personality, etc. etc. I think the obstacles are pretty severe, but not impossible.

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      1. 83

         gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Sadly in this present era poor children are doomed from the inception.  They have very little, if no opportunities for educational & socioeconomic advancement.  In essence, they have NO future.  They are doomed to remain in the same socioeconomic morass as their parents & grandparents.  The WORST thing poor people in America can do is to give birth to children.  This is a SELFISH, if not EGREGIOUS act for these "parents" are condemning their children to an empty, barren life devoid of educational, cultural, & socioeconomic opportunities. 
         
         Yes, poor people  in America SHOULD NEVER have children. Leave that to the solidly middle(middle-middle), upper middle, & the upper classes who can provide their children w/myriad educational, cultural, & socioeconomic opportunities.  Poor parents HAVE NOTHING to offer to their children.  In fact, poor parents are considered to be liabilities as far as their children are concerned.  It is IMPOSSIBLE for poor children in America nowadays to get out of poverty-MOST LIKELY they WILL REMAIN in poverty like their parents & grandparents. 
         
         To reiterate, they are doomed, if not damned into poverty.  Children who will be HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL are those born in the high end of solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class.   Children who are lower, working, & lower middle class have VERY SCANT chances of being highly successful educationally & socioeconomically.  This is REALITY.  Children who are born poor in America presently will become part of a permanent underclass as they WON'T have the educational & socioeconomic opportunities that solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class children HAVE.

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         1. 68

            AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Wow. I shouldn't have been conceived then I guess. I'm a middle class honors graduate with a degree, and awards and an excellent job. I was born in a bankrupt family. Your logic does not stand.

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2. 0

   ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

   Yes , lets stop lower income   parents from raising families all together ,certainly there can be no love in a lower  wage home ,...... then all of the negative  characteristics of our culture will simply disappear    won't they ?      Crime , drugs ,  corruption , .......it will all just go pooof  as if this world were just a utopia  waiting to happen with only the rich , a Camelot  without lower income families  .
   
   ...........Really ?
   
   A bright kid with educational potential  has every chance in the world to excel , poor or rich , there are enough programs  to ensure that most can succeed if they wish .  Those who grow up poorer , believe it or not , probably become better people .

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      AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      +++++++++++

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      1. 83

         gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Don't you realize that children who are born in poverty had odds against them.  They don't have the proper nutrition, medical care, & education.   Their mentality is stunted because of adverse conditions.  Only SELFISH, CRUEL, and UNCARING people would willingly bring their children into an impoverished, desolate environment.   If one CAN'T AFFORD children, THEN DON'T HAVE THEM.  It is beyond inexcusable & into the reprehensive to have children when one can't provide for them educationally, culturally, & socioeconomically.   To reiterate, only the solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class parents should have children as such children will have myriad educational & socioeconomic opportunities.

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            ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            GM.  you can't be serious ?   Forgive me but  all that sounds rather Hitler-ish  , Blond , blue eyed ,  uniformed little social genius' , who have a trust fund , a chauffeur , a nanny  and a  life's  wish of  what ?   Gated communities ,  ivory towers , pent house's and  fast   Audi's ?    Ask yourself this ,  I grew  up lower middle class  rural  America  and I wouldn't change  anything about that upbringing ,  I think  growing up in poverty is only as relevant  as  how those  around you view growing  up in it .
            
            Are you picking on me again  ?I know You don't mean this ...........:-]

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            1. 83

               gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Dead serious as deadly serious as a cobra ready to strike. Children who grew up impoverished in America hated it.  They KNOW that they are disadvantaged from the inception.  They start school behind.  They are academically behind.  They don't have enough food, clothing, & even medical care.  Their vocabulary is lower than children who grew up solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class.  They don't have the educational & socioeconomic advantages that other, normal children have.   No one in his/her right mind wants to be impoverished or have children in impoverished conditions.
               
               I grew up around children who were impoverished.  These weren't happy campers.  They envied us children who grew up solidly middle class & even upper middle class.  Poor children are more likely to commit crime because of necessity.  They are also academically backwards because there is no money for intellectual paraphernalia in the home.  Yes, children who are poor to impoverished are damned.  There is NO WAY that they will become educationally & socioeconomically successful, especially in this present era.  They will most likely become a PERMANENT underclass & if they have children, CONDEMNING their children to hellish poverty.   Yes, POVERTY is akin to HELL.  No thinking parent will think of bring children into the world under such conditions   
               
               If I had MY way, there would be THREE conditions for people to become parents.  I also believe that there should be TESTING & LICENSING for parenthood for parenthood is THE MOST important vocation.  First of all, couples must be educated minimally beyond high school level w/ an Associates' Degree or better yet, a Bachelor's Degree.  They must take psychological classes to understand children.  They must also be tested to assure their emotional & intellectual competence before having children.  They must have psychological maturity for there are far too many parents who are too immature out there.   They shouldn't get married & be parents before the age of 35-get some living under one's belt.   Most of all, they must be economically established w/a career before even thinking of having children.   I called this the FEP principle i.e. people should not become parents until they are financially, emotionally, & psychologically......READY.

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                  AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  No chance? None? Hmmm...Interesting how this adult, who used to be poverty stricken, graduated top 1% in the State, never committed a crime, is currently using better grammar structure than you, is financially very well off (poor parents teach how to manage money really well,) is currently working on her second degree, with ZERO student debt because her test scores were so high, has a plaque with her name on it in the faculty office of her university for being #1 on campus for translation of Hebrew documents, has published several pieces of literature, and also has something very important you are lacking: kindness, an open mind...shall I go on, or shall you retract your uneducated statement?

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                  1. 83

                     gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     I am happy for you.  I want all to be successful.  Everyone should use the UTMOST of their potential.   I ADMIRE those who come from poor to impoverished circumstances who become successful.  This is what I want.

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                        AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        But I was born impoverished. So according to you, I should never have been born.

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                        1. 83

                           gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           No child should be born into poverty.   Every child should have myriad educational & socioeconomic opportunities, especially in America.  America is the land of plenty & all should have that plenty.

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                              AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              Clever avoidance of admitting that.

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                              ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              But GM.  What exactly is plenty ,   How much is enough ?  No .   My point is this , what teaches the  child the best lessons  of life,   actually knowing the physical feeling of hunger pangs or  never knowing the meaning of wishing ,sharing ,  asking , earning or  striving for anything ?     I find myself wondering of  your past GM.  seriously . I wonder sometimes where your questions originated , respectfully .
                              
                              I can only say this , I learned  first hand  of hunger ,poverty , economic desperation  and I saw the exact opposite  around me too ,   I also saw the same life , drugs , alcohol addiction and troubles of family and  society  in both , and    I wouldn't change one thing if I could go back .

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                                 ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 GM. After reading your profile again , I understand more of your logical reasoning .  You hold a powerful presence in these debates and a  very positive reality  about our inner city problems ,your solutions  are very thoughtful ones .   
                                 
                                 However , Do we then  follow the lead of China  ,nationally legislate 2 children per family , save the boys and sell the female , future breeding child into the adoption market ,   do we begin to fantasize that our government knows more about a healthy child than you or I , a mother or father ?    Do we legislate that only  upper economically inclined families  should remain the puppy factories ?
                                 
                                 Your social -cultural perspectives are well founded  and thought out ,   We have to remain vigilant in that family planning is first the families duty , obligation and  responsibility , And the governments intervention is the last .

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3. 83

   gmwilliamsposted 7 years ago

   I want everyone in America to have a decent standard of living.  In America, no one should be poor & struggling.   I want every American to have AT LEAST a solidly middle class lifestyle.  There should be NO POOR people in America.  I want children to have myriad educational & socioeconomic opportunities to thrive after all, they are human beings & I believe in human dignity.

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4. 83

   gmwilliamsposted 7 years ago

   Why thank you.  Continue the discussion.  I am finished w/this post.  I am currently watching a youtube documentary on the Holocaust.  I have finished watching the Wolyn massacre in Eastern Poland during World War 2.

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