Is Transsexual Activism Toxic Masculinity?

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   Live to Learnposted 4 years ago

   Martina Navratilova is being censured for her concern for equality in women sports. A lesbian activist has been sidelined for her concerns for women's safety. I think mine is a fair question.
   
   Those who identify as women, yet were not born into the sex, are increasingly gaining power and side lining any who disagree with their views.
   
   Women face a future where sports could be dominated by transgenders, unless they are allowed to poison their bodies by taking large amounts of testosterone in an attempt to compete. Young girls may stop competing altogether, if their teams are unfairly allowing these individuals to dominate their leagues.
   
   Women face a future of undressing with persons who possess body parts they have historically not been exposed to in such situations.
   
   Women face a future where those who did not grow up with uniquely female issues will hold sway over women's issues and women's activism.
   
   Something seems incredibly and bizarrely patriarchal in this scenario.
   
   How do women maintain control of women's rights?

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      lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Transwomen are women though. Also, there's no reason there can't be a transwomen team and a transmen team. You could also ask the same question saying, transmen may not be able to compete with men born in that gender, so they are at a loss, what are we going to do about them?
      
      They are humans too, if you want to fight for rights, you gotta fight for everyone.
      
      Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYx7HaUlMY
      
      Also, toxic masculinity usually covers these topics:
      
      Mansplaining
      Sexual harassment and molestation
      Refusing to treat women the same as men, etc.
      
      Transwomen would usually fight against these things because they would face them too, so transwomen cannot be in this category. You could come up with a new term if you want to or get some really good PR to change the existing term to include this.

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         Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         You're right. They should have their own sports teams and facilities and organizations for advancement of their causes. I have no problem with that.

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   wildernessposted 4 years ago

   As long as we pretend that mental gender perception equates with sex this kind of problem will continue to grow.  I'm sure we will find other things beyond sports competitions.
   
   At some point we're going to have to accept that even surgery cannot change a male into a female or vice versa.  It may or may not give the appearance of having changed, but it has not actually changed the sex of the person involved.

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      lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed.

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      Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. A person can take estrogen but it does not negate the testosterone they produce. That I am aware of. Hopefully, if I'm wrong a qualified doctor will chime in and educate me. I'm not interested in listening to opinions striving for political correctness at the expense of science.

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         wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not interested in PC either.
         
         So you take estrogen.  So you inhibit most testosterone production.  Does it change your body size?  Does it change the width of the pelvis?  Does it change the size of bones?  The size of the rib cage? 
         
         You cannot change a male to a female without changing the genes in every cell.

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            Hxprofposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            And this isn't PC to discuss.....how insensitive of you to bring this up.

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               lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I'm sure it's pretty PC to discuss. Discussions are never a problem, it's people imposing their views based on some beliefs that affect the lives of someone else. That's the insensitive thing. People are usually open to discussions.

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                  Hxprofposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm wondering though if transgender folks would be upset by this:" You cannot change a male to a female without changing the genes in every cell."
                  
                  Does that seem to be inserting an opinion in a discussion about transexual activism? And if a particular opinion is being enforced into law, does that make it an imposition?
                  
                  I'm choosing an relatively innocuous "belief" here to illustrate: If the law sets a speed limit of 35 mph for a particular street, but numerous residents along that street "feel" that 35 is too fast, and request 25, are they trying to impose their beliefs in a way that affects the lives of others.  Lets assume there have been no speed related accidents or near hits.

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                     lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     No, that's not what the law was and is in most countries. The law basically said: If you live in a house with a garden that has red roses you are allowed to drive, but if you live in any other house you aren't. Also, red roses choose where they want to grow, they cannot be planted and you cannot move house your entire life. But you have to drive 30 miles to get groceries, else you're going to starve due to the limited amount you can carry in your hands.
                     
                     You did not allow LGBT people to marry even when it causes you no harm and you were marrying yourself, that's hypocrisy just like in my illogical example above. If you find that example crazy, that's just how it really was and is in many parts of the world for the LGBT people.

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                     Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     That isn't any more opinion than claiming a guy is a girl cause he says so is.

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                        lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Nah, that's not opinion, there's scientific reason, you can begin here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

   Good grief! This is a brave topic to bring up in today's political (warm to hot) climate.
   
   Political Warming!
   
   Whatever contributes to Political Warming is creating CONFLICT! !
   
   "A rapidly growing body of research examines whether human conflict can be affected by climatic changes. Drawing from archaeology, criminology, economics, geography, history, political science, and psychology, we assemble and analyze the 60 most rigorous quantitative studies and document, for the first time, a remarkable convergence of results. We find strong causal evidence linking climatic events to human conflict across a range of spatial and temporal scales and across all major regions of the world. The magnitude of climate's influence is substantial: for each 1 standard deviation (1σ) change in climate toward warmer temperatures or more extreme rainfall, median estimates indicate that the frequency of interpersonal violence rises 4% and the frequency of intergroup conflict rises 14%. Because locations throughout the inhabited world are expected to warm 2 to 4σ by 2050, amplified rates of human conflict could represent a large and critical impact of anthropogenic climate change."
   
   
   Obviously, we have Political Warming! And its most likely caused by Global Warming!
   ! !
   
   Oh and yes, the obvious solution is to ban transsexuals from women's events.
   They are no longer male or female. They are neutrals. Not he or not she. Its.
   (Global Warming made me say that.)

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      lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Then instead of banning transsexuals, let's ban global warming and all our problems are solved. You can start this by not voting for Trump next term as you said you're going to

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      Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      On the up side of AOC is right the world will end in 12 years. So, there's that to look forward to.

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         lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         She never said that. That's how you interpret it. She meant the world as we know it.

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            Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I watched the video. Don't make claims you can't back up with fact. She may not have meant what was said but she certainly said it. Not sure why that isn't showing as a link, but you can search that wording to find the video.
            
            cortez_the_world_is_going_to_end_in_12_years_if_we_dont_address_climate_change.html

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               lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I can back it up, can you? Listen to the message not the sentence. She has said in accordance with the UN climate report. Do you know what the report says? That's what she meant because that is what she was referring to.

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                  Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  What she meant and what she said may be different but your comment does not, in any way, match what was said in that interview. You can't blow smoke when the fire was on tape. It casts doubt on the veracity of your comment.

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                     lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     She did say in accordance with the UN climate report. Unless the quotes were wrong by the news outlet. I think it was NYtimes that I read a transcript on.

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                        Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        So you didn't watch the video. Gotcha.
                        
                        Either way, this thread is on transsexual activism. If her comments don't address the OP I'll leave you to whatever.

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                           lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Did I ever say I watched the video? A transcript is the same as a video. It's supposed to be. As old as you think you are, I thought you'd know that because newspapers are read even by the right.
                           
                           I'll let you continue reading the wikipedia article on transgenders. If you prefer videos as it's difficult to read, you can also find videos on Youtube.

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                              Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              As a male you couldn't possibly understand women's issues and women's desire to maintain equal rights.
                              
                              We had to fight tooth and nail to get where we are today. Men should not have the right to simply shove us to the back of the bus.

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                                 lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 What about a gay male? Does he have the right to say it's a lot harder on them than women in today's society? Does he have the right to speak for inequality? Does he have the right to speak on how society imprisoned him for most of his life until he fought for freedom? I think I have a right to speak for equality more than some women.
                                 
                                 Because many women today were born into equality. You fought and you've got it to a major extent. Don't stop fighting. Our battles have just begun and I'm not going to stop fighting.
                                 
                                 I'm sorry that I assumed you were male in the previous comments.

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                                    Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                    You certainly have a right to speak for equality. You have no right to decide what is best for women. I think the current definition of such behavior falls under mansplaining.

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                                       lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                       You said: As a male you couldn't possibly understand women's issues and women's desire to maintain equal rights.
                                       
                                       Yes, I do know the desire to maintain equal rights but you did not know why I know it. So telling you the reason is not mansplaining. Mansplaining is when I assume you don't know. The fact is that you obviously didn't know that I had a reason to understand it and you clearly said so.
                                       
                                       If you want to throw definitions around I could say you are now playing the victim. But I'm not going to say that because you and I both know that it's not going to help either one of us.
                                       
                                       So can we get back to the topic of transexuals? No, their activism is not toxic masculinity. Why do you think that? What is your definition of toxic masculinity in this case?

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                                          Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                          Toxic masculinity to me is when men infringe on women's rights out of a sense of entitlement.

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            GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            "Millennials and Gen Z and all these folks that come after us are looking up, and we're like, 'The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?' " she said.
            
            Brandon, I might agree with you that in an expanded conversation what you said may have been what she meant, but without that extended conversation, you cannot support what you think she "meant" to say.
            
            It does appear she made that statement in the context of a larger point, but she did say it, and she did not condition it with any context. So yes, she did say that, and your interpretation of what she meant by it is just that--an interpretation.
            
            ps. I found this lonnggg video that I think presents a pretty accurate picture of her thinking. It is worth the watch just to be able to understand her through your own filter, not the media's, or any Right or Left wing "interpretation.
            
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3-QvoI … e=youtu.be
            
            I was impressed. She seems very sincere. But she also seems very naive, (in a "how the world really works" way), and very much a proponent of socialism values. (note: I do intend a distinction, I did not say socialist values).
            
            GA

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   Live to Learnposted 4 years ago

   https://pluralist.com/transgender-sprin … rls-state/
   
   Another example of the unfair and sexist attitude which squashes the dreams of young women in the quest for acquiescing to the desires of an incredibly tiny minority.
   
   Women are increasingly losing their quest for fairness and equality..

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