There are so many countries where this discrimination does not exist, but there are some societies where it still exist, I need you suggestions how it can be removed from those societies.
Different societies require different methods to remove it. Depends which countries.
People need to revolt in those countries. The problem is that society accepts or rather want the discrimination. So I guess to help fight it you have to convince the crazy people out there that it's not right to suppress others. Can't talk sense into crazy though.
Option B: Pressure governments like Canada, U.S. and England to push the issue.
I agree to some extent. But fight and pressure groups cannot change the mentality.
Yes so it becomes a choice of a) letting the oppressors continue to abuse innocent human beings based on gender discrimination or b) sticking up for those who can't help themselves.
Let's face it, although no society is perfect, civil countries generally see only isolated cases of misogyny which is not good, but better than widespread abuses. It is too difficult a process to change these minds and in the meantime how many more women have to be raped, stoned, burned with acid and mutilated by female circumcisions? People all around the world need to be standing up and saying no to abuses. I don't care what the political retributions are. These barbaric acts need to stop. And I haven't even mentioned (dis)"honour" killings yet.
Agree with u. but by pressure can we stop it? If yes, then it is good. But you know one thing, females are not raped or teased by only unknown male, they are also tortured by their relatives as well. Now what will we do in this case. And the most important thing most rapes are preplanned and done by acquaintances.
Ego would need to be recognized and constantly monitored by consciously active mind, so equality can be achieved.
Getting rid of discrimination unfortunately will always involve a fight. The powers in charge will never give away equality willingly. In the past, people realised this, as is made evident by the long battle of the suffragettes. It took many years of marches, demonstrating, hunger strikes whilst in prison, chaining themselves to railings, smashing windows etc. These women were brave, because power was entirely held my men, who believed in their moral right to govern, and they were determined that women would never be allowed the vote.
So, direct action is the only way to remove legal discrimination, even though it is a hard process. Hoping that men in power in some countries will have a change of heart and suddenly believe women are equal is unlikely to result in any change.
I agree, I would like also like to believe though that today's young people (men) are better educated and that their parents do not encourage negative stereotypes of women and girls.
I agree. HBO had a very moving film out awhile back called Iron Jawed Angels that depicted the very real fight it took to get women the vote in the US. And it's important to remember that it happened not even 100 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGyRbWIM0qg (some NSFW language)
Globally, I think educating girls is the most important step we can take towards greater women's equality. Educated women are not so easily silenced.
Women's education is critical. However, change won't happen unless women and sympathetic men are willing to fight for it. The women's suffrage and the civil and gay rights movements have proved that. Also, the ending of apartheid in South Africa.
I agree completely. Some things like this are worth the struggle.
I also agree, some sympathetic men are ready to help but many more are ready to torture them. Let us see what happen. But we must try to eradicate in society. At least we can raise our voice.
The education of women and girls is paramount. However, I have to disagree that gender inequality exists because of the denial of educational opportunities for women. Gender inequality did not exist because women were uneducated, but because men believed they were the superior gender. Even those men that had greater access to educational opportunities.
"The personal is political" a familiar feminist slogan. Women, throughout history, have fought for equality in one way or another, irrespective of their level of education. Similarly, social policy, throughout history, has sought to keep women powerless and without a voice, by negatively stereotyping women from the top down. Social policy in many countries, including my own, has dictated that men earn more they are therefore "worth more" When jobs are scarce, men will be given preference over women. (think about troops returning home from the second world war) Ultimately, this scenario helps sustain economic hardship for women, who therefore, have to depend on men.
If we genuinely want to overcome gender inequality, then we have to educate boys, and I'm not talking about maths or science.
Very true that we must "educate boys." Attitudes about gender roles change slowly.
Professional schools in the US were slow to admit women. Harvard Business School admitted the first woman to its MBA program in 1961. Law schools and medical schools and engineering schools also dragged their feet on admitting, let alone recruiting talented women.
I'm really pleased you see this Ralph. Education is so important to both sexes, but it begins in the home. There have been many reasons why politically at least, women have been oppressed. I believe we have to help our boys open their eyes to this. My argument isn't that we shouldn't educate girls, of course we should, but we should also help our boys to understand where "gender roles" really come from, and who they serve.
While I am a believer in equality and equal rights I am not a believer in the whole feminist thing. It says "radical" to me. Perhaps just due to my own experiences, but it seems like it is pitting women against men.
I am of the belief that we need to act as one and not separate ourselves from one another. Saying "we have to educate boys" is singling them out. I am in favour of singling out certain countries who have an atrocious record of discrimination, but categorically singling out boys like that I'm not in favour of. There are some girls out there who need the same type of education. Treating boys differently because they are boys goes against the initial point of creating equality in the first place.
To summarize my long point here I will say this. We have to treat each other decently. We have to give people a chance and not lay blame at every opportunity. People need to try to understand one another and understand why others do the things they do. In my small part of the world I try to nice and respectful to people. I'm by no means perfect, but I try. It's not the answer, but it's a positive thing to do and a start.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Created- … 7729978295
I agree with many of the things you have said, and my intention was not to single boys out, or suggest that they are uneducated or stupid. Ok, I accept that you see the feminist movement as "radical" hell, in some respects it can be. (I'm thinking 1960's here, it was a bit) However, when we talk about atrocities that happen to women in many parts of the world, who commits them? More often than not, it's family members. But, who instigates them? The personal is political, is, in some respects, a recognition that top down policies, influence the lives, and behavior of both genders.
You say we have to treat each other decently, I agree. This was never about blaming boys, and by the sounds of it, if you had boys, this is how you would have "educated them" But, not all men are like you. Some have a very different moral code.
True enough and herein lies the problem. We can keep trying and we definitely need to keep reforming education systems. The answer to solving these problems is different for every little corner of the world. Yes in some areas it is better education that will make a huge difference. Other areas, unfortunately I believe people need to be taken out of power by force to save innocents. Not one for violence or war, but sometimes you have to stick up for people. If you care anyways.
Good conversation. Too bad the people who really need to read this stuff don't come to this discussion:)
Mike, I do believe that "many" need to be taken out of power. The way the world is evolving though, people take the "nasty " out of power. That's why we have to focus on educating our girls and boys. I do care, you're right though, the people who really need to read this stuff arn't here.
I think the feminist movement of the '60s and '70s was radical, but was perhaps a reaction to the slow speed of progress towards women's equality. It was standard practise to advertise jobs, with a lower salary listed for women than for men until the '80s. And there were only a handful of women politicians. Even today, they are underrepresented in parliament. That kind of radicalism has largely disappeared now, perhaps because society has changed dramatically since then.
However, in other countries, women are still legally second class citizens, and don't even have the right to vote and are still legally the property of their father's, until they become the property of their husbands. Perhaps Western countries could try to encourage these countries to change their policies, although only the women in those countries can change things, if they really want to. Yesterday David Cameron said that he is considering making foreign aid to Commonwealth countries, conditional on them changing their laws towards gay people. Maybe, he could do the same for those, who legally discriminate against women.
Some movements had to be radical, they would not have gained attention otherwise. If only the problems were that women were underrepresented in parliament (that's not a criticism of your post) The UK still covertly discriminates against women, particularly in times of economic stress. Women in the UK still don't have equal remuneration to those of their male counterparts.
I know in many countries women are still second class citizens. In some respects, that's small fry compared to gay men and women who can be executed for being who they are. I honestly hope, that in the future we can overcome all this nonsense, all people are equal, irrespective of gender, race, religion or sexuality. However, I would never trust David Cameron to bring about necessary change. If he's discussing aid and equality with other countries, he's up to no good. He doesn't care.
Gender equality can't ever be created in any country because genders aren't equal.
I'm a man. I have a penis. I'm stronger, faster, and balder.
She's a woman. She has a vagina. She bears children, is able to feed children by simply pushing them near her nipples, and she's better at cooking than me.
Sorry: Gender equality is impossible.
I have a Y chromosome, she has an X chromosome....
... and something about that makes us happy to be together.
All you women out there, vote Ron Paul 2012. He has very educated and aware followers
You deny that women have babies and that men are stronger?
PS: I'm not Ron Paul
Political Equality of the different genders.
I thought that was implied.
OK, well, should we consider, for example, that only female politicians need to take 3-or-so month breaks if they and their spouse have a child?
OR would you prefer to talk about how, when you take marriage status and education into account, unmarried women with no desire to have children actually end up making a bit more than men?
Let us assume, just for a moment, that one is past the age of child bearing, has an advanced degree, is emotionally stable and disease free and has the capacity to raise enough money to do whatever. All material, money, and opportunity being equal, at least one study has shown that women currently lack the courage, self confidence, and ability to place negative events outside themselves (conversely lacking the ability to take credit for positive events) in the workplace, wherever that may be. Therefore, there can be no equality until women begin to see themselves as completely capable, a la Condi Rice. Believing is only the ice breaker. Acting upon, behaving as though all this is true is only the beginning. It should take another 2 generations to become apparent and accepted.
Now, I've heard some pretty dumb things on HP, and this ranks among the dumbest.
That's fine. If you want to deny that X and Y are different, then please remind me how Freedom is Slavery.
That's what I like about you Evan, your non partisan, anything is possible approach.
I knew I'd come under flak for that comment, and I'm prepared to back it up.
Women are much more important to humanity than men are.
No, men and women are equally important to humanity.
I really don't think that is a true statement.
Only one sex can carry children:. Females are obviously more important.
Evan, I believe what you meant to say is that women and men are not IDENTICAL. That is beyond debate. However, as one of my favorite professors, Henry Alonzo Myers, said "women and men, aren't identical, but they are equal in ultimate value." The concept or belief in equality is a central concept of western civilization and morality--as in one man or woman, one vote, equal justice before the law, we are 'children of God,' etc.
If you think some people are more equal, why don't you state your criteria and reasons?
Henry A. Myers
In his books and many articles he has left enduring testimony to his breadth and his strength. His books include A Short History of English Literature (written with Elsie Myers; 1938, revised edition, 1952); The Spinoza-Hegel Paradox: A Study of the Choice between Traditional Idealism and Systematic Pluralism (1944); and Are Men Equal? An Inquiry into the Meaning of American Democracy (1945), republished by the Cornell University Press a few months after his death.
Of his last book it may be said that no one can read it without being moved by the passionate and compassionate spirit evident in it from beginning to end.
It was written by a man who, though he saw the infinite worth of every human being, felt his own finiteness and was aware of his own and all men’s frailty. It was of himself as well as of others that he wrote: “Only through loneliness and comradeship can one learn to accept others as his equals in ultimate value. Only after sharing sorrow and joy with others can one arrive at a tragic understanding that all men are subject to a common fate.” For twenty years Henry Myers strove to formulate a theory of tragedy, as a key to the problems of life. Time failed him for the final formulation, but in the striving he achieved a rare insight into human beings and a warm sympathy for human suffering.
Women are MUCH more important to humanity (and mammals in general) than men are.
If you want to build a work force in the least amount of time, you need MANY more women than men.
This is the reason why the male (no, not the man. Transgenders feel the same way) goes out and risks his life for the female.
Men and women are NOT equal: women are MUCH more important.
"If you think some people are more equal, why don't you state your criteria and reasons? "
I never made this claim. Not once.
And, if anyone wants to make the claim that women are equal to men, then THEY need to set the criteria for their claim.
I can make a grocery list of places where women are different than men, and I can do the same for how we're the same.
Women are MUCH more important than men. They are not "more equal", they are more IMPORTANT.
Difference does not equate to more important. The genders are different, but equal.
I must resist!
Women are clearly more important to humanity for the following reasons: Men risk their lives to impress them, men risk their lives to protect them, and men risk their lives to win them over MUCH more than women do for men.
I have no stats to back this up, it's just clear when looking through history: the men fight the wars.
Yes throughout history it has been the men who fight the wars, but it has always been men who have caused the wars. But I don't think any wars have been fought simply to impress women. They usually have a political motive.
Yes men do but just for short time. And the differences can be seen in your answer. "men risk their lives to protect them, and men risk their lives to win them" So these words say that women are helpless creatures that's why they need help to protect themselves.........
Will you ever learn the manners to at least say "her" name?
You don't look bald on your avatar. Although I agree, your partner does have a lot more hair.
I think Evan is confusing the word "equality" with the word "different." No one would argue that men and women aren't different physically. But I don't see how this has a bearing on equality. It would be as ridiculous as saying that people of different races look physically different, and so therefore should not be considered equal. Nature has made men and women different, but it is man that has invented the false idea that those differences indicate inequality.
It's impossible to compare apples and oranges and come to the conclusion that both are equal. Both are FRUIT, but they are not equal. One is used to make pie, the other is used to make a colds go away.
They're different, and equality means the same. You're asking me to call two things that are different the same. I can't, I won't, I refuse.
If you want to say "similar" or "equality in this one specific field" or "congruence in salaries under equal situations", then you have my support (depending on the situations and fields)
To call an apple an orange is to be blinded by emotions.
I DEMAND EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR MALE AND FEMALE STRIPPERS!! If more female strippers are in a strip joint than male strippers, then we have to shut the place down.
... Even though this is a PERFECT example of male and females being different, I know you'll brush it off as idiocy. Ti's the power of the liberal.
I have turned to the Universal Dictionary to see how it describes "Equality." It describes it as the state of being equal , especially in the state of enjoying equal rights in political, economic and social affairs. It does not mention that equality means the same, or that two things that are different cannot be equal.
Equality: "The state of being equal"
Equal: 4 definitions, all include the statement "be the same"
Just google the definitions.
If X and Y reach equality, then they are in the state of being equal, which means that they are the same.
Freedom is not slavery.
Two fifty cent pieces are equal in value to one dollar but they are not identical or "the same." Their worth or value is the same, but their physical characteristics are different. My impression is that the topic of this thread refers to equality of treatment and opportunity in society, not equality of appearance or physical characteristics. Evan, you have taken the discussion down a blind alley!
We are quibbling about words. A waste of time.
I agree. Much of the discussions online are a waste of time. I remember a time before the Internet, when it was possible to go months without a disagreement with anyone. Now it seems almost a daily event.
No it is not wasting of time, we are thinking about the problem and trying to give our suggestions. Internet is one of the best means, we can gather any type of suggestions and information here. Here we are discussing about gender issue and gathering so much opinions from whom we never met and might be in future we will meet. But atleast we can hear (read) each other.
Just shows that Evan loves distortion and misinformation than anything else.
Yes we are talking about the equal opportunities for both men and women. But still there are so many countries that have patriarchal society. Patriarchal society means male dominant society, where men rule on women; where women work according to the will of men. This is the gender difference, and i am not talking about sex difference. yes both are different, but both must get the same chances and opportunities.
Which countries are the one's that don't have an equality problem or at least difference between men and women?
There aren't any that I'm aware of. Some countries are much, much worse than others, of course, but even the supposedly enlightened Western cultures still harbor their share of misogyny. It's just more subtle than the sorts of places that practice horrors like honor killings, female genital mutilation, sex selective abortion, bride abductions, etc.
You people gave great answers. Our opinions are different, but motive is same. Of course we are discussing here, but certainly implement some important given points (in reply) in our life. We must participate in this activity not only by our words but also by actions.
i think that it is inevitable, as society develops, people will wake up and demand for equality and thus such rules/laws will change accordingly. There is lag because of other cultural factors like religion, mass media etc.
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