What are the major benefits and problems with nationalism?

Jump to Last Post 1-6 of 6 discussions (60 posts)
  1. dianetrotter profile image67
    dianetrotterposted 11 months ago

    Can race be disassociated with nationalism?  Describe how that looks?  What are the problems with multinationalism?  What are the problems with a melting pot?

    1. Tim Truzy info4u profile image96
      Tim Truzy info4uposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      If we are talking race, Diane, we have moved into more of "tribalism." I think this technique is used to disguise the real truth - this nationalistic thing is used to hide that class is more important than race in our society. Regardless of whether people call our president a racist, he certainly had no problems considering Oprah for his running mate (which would never happen) for many reasons.

      Trump found groups interested and supportive of what was viewed as good for the nation, but it looks like Trump was also considering what was good for billionaires.
      These two things are not exclusive, of course.
      But  economics has proven repeatedly, people tend to look out for those who are a lot like them. In our society, green is a race of its own.
      In the meantime, convince people that Bruce Wayne or Tony Starks has taken the White House.

    2. promisem profile image98
      promisemposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      America is fine with multiple races and religions as long as white Anglo Saxon Protestants remain dominant.

      Majority groups always defend their majority status. Donald Trump and his supporters are living proof.

    3. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Nationalism? Nationalism is a political, social, and economic ideology and movement characterized by                                                                           1) the promotion of the interests of a particular nation,                     
      2) especially with the aim of gaining and                                       
        3) maintaining the nation's sovereignty over its homeland.

      1. dianetrotter profile image67
        dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        I didn't realize how much farmers depend on export of their produce and products. 

        RIght now, they need subsidies because of the state of tariffs? I read.
        So it is in our interest (economic) to be able to sell products and services outside the US.                                                                                                 The economic interest require social interaction with other countries.            Sovereignty over our homeland requires political interaction with other countries to watch each others' backs.                                                                                                                                               I am not feeling this nationalism in the rhetoric I am hearing from many who talk about nationalism.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          "Nationalism" on a tiny scale:

          When I leave home for an extended period I ask my neighbor to keep an eye on my house and he does the same.  The neighborhood gets together for a block party once in a while, and when the snow was very deep and the city didn't plow the road we all chipped in to hire someone to do it. 

          But no one tells me when to cut my grass, no one demands I pay their mortgage for them and no one sets a time schedule for when I will eat supper. 

          Same with nations; they either work together in many areas or they will suffer because they didn't, but that does not mean that any one nation makes the rules for everyone and no one nation profits exorbitantly from trade.  All look out for themselves within that framework and all do well with it.  Nationalism.

          1. dianetrotter profile image67
            dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            the first part sounds like neighborhood watch to me.  I didn't give my own definition for nationalism.  I got it from wikipedia.  sad

            2nd paragraph, code enforcement will get on your case if you don't cut your grass..  Wow!  Some people get their mortgage paid for them - nice..  Sounds like a good place to cut my taxes.  No one tells you when to eat - that sounds like jail!  big_smile

            The last paragraph makes sense.  I don't know if it is nationalism.

            1. wilderness profile image94
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              An informal neighborhood watch, yes.  But a formal one classifies as well - people working together to make a better neighborhood.

              There is no law in my area about grass height, although many HOA's have requirements.  Maybe I should have said that my neighbors don't require me to be unarmed, as the UN does.

              It's my concept of nationalism.  A part of making a great country is working with others - without that a nation will never achieve what it could with cooperation.

              1. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                So you think North Korea and Iran should keep and improve their nukes?

  2. Live to Learn profile image79
    Live to Learnposted 11 months ago

    America is a nation of immigrants from around the world so I don't think nationalism here can honestly be associated with race. I guess that's why 'white nationalists' seems an oxymoron, to me.

    I think the arguments against the term melting pot are over rated. Primarily because the salad bowl analogy appears to be where the fruits and nuts are saying that they have suffered because the vegetables are the main recognized ingredients without taking into account the fact that the vegetables are happy to share the bowl. Understanding that fruits and nuts enhance the flavor of the whole.

    I don't know. Maybe a salad of fruits and nuts, with a smattering of vegetables added in would work as well. But, the truth is then we'd have the dairy whining that they are under represented. Next thing you know, olive oil will make a fuss and vinegar will demand over representation.

    1. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      :-)  Sure would love to have gifs and emojis available.

      1. wilderness profile image94
        wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        lol

        1. dianetrotter profile image67
          dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Hey!!!!  What tha?  roll  I see!  formatting!  That's no fun!  We should be able to click right here!wink

          Anyway, what are your thoughts on nationalism?

          1. wilderness profile image94
            wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            na·tion·al·ism
            [ˈnaSH(ə)nəˌlizəm]
            NOUN
            identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

            I support this.  While I do not object to helping other nations grow and develop, when push comes to shove my own nation takes priority over all others.  It doesn't mean we need to cheat other peoples, but it DOES mean that we are not a mat to be walked on, we are not simply an endless supply of wealth and that we WILL put our needs and wants first.  "America First" is a statement of nationalism, and one I approve of.

            1. profile image0
              RTalloniposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              If America is strong she can take care of her own and continue to help others. Putting her first is good for everyone. The motives of those who continue working to change that should be carefully examined.

              1. wilderness profile image94
                wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Exactly right.

                1. dianetrotter profile image67
                  dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  There is always someone who wants to be top dog.  The US is envied or hated by others which makes us a target.  Will nationalism help us with international threats to our existence?

                  1. wilderness profile image94
                    wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    We already have that.  When the UN gathers thousands of people and directs them to assault our borders with the intention of entering the country illegally it is a threat to our existence.

                    And yes, nationalism will help us to survive such attacks.

                  2. profile image0
                    RTalloniposted 11 months agoin reply to this
                2. Tim Truzy info4u profile image96
                  Tim Truzy info4uposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  And I'll gladly stand with my American family, regardless of where they are from,  to defend this great imperfect land which we have struggled hard to make a home out of. We are often imitated but as of yet, never duplicated. We are unique that way. When we decide to do something - Who knows, we might reach the moon. (Oh yeah, we did that!)

                  1. dianetrotter profile image67
                    dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Is there conflict between the US being the leader of the free world and being nationalistic?

    2. profile image0
      RTalloniposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      And, for all our shortcomings, that's the beauty of America. For all the improvements we need to make we can work to change our circumstances, become a part of the representation, or chill and enjoy the benefits even when times are tough because compared to many parts of the rest of the world, our worst is their best.

      That said, melting pot is still a good-to-go phrase. Immigrants need to understand that by coming here they become part of something special. All the immigrants I know do understand that. They need to understand the good, bad, and ugly of our history rather than a watered-down or twisted version of it, need to learn English well to understand that from the beginning good and bad people came to this land, how people of all races fought on both sides of the Civil War, then learned and grew together over time, all so they could make the most of opportunities offered to citizens and be a part of needed improvements. (Sadly we've seen factions trying to undo all the growth we gained from the lessons but that's for another discussion.)

      Your salad is also a great way to put it. Immigrants need to be willing to become one with us while adding their positives to us, and many are willing. Together we can build a healthy nation by working together. Yes, the human race is a bunch of fruits and nuts, veggies and seasonings, with a few croutons and meatheads to boot. When we come together in loyalty for a free republic like America we can handle the whiners, complainers, and fuss-makers. We can work together to protect the freedom to protect the innocent, protect law abiding citizens, and protect our government from growing into a a tyranny where there is no freedom for any who do not agree with an agenda that is as far from American as it has ever been.

      No, we haven't "arrived" but by refusing to listen to those who only want to divide us from each other so they can increase government control over lives, businesses, education, healthcare, and more we can value the past with an eye on the future, thereby continuing to improve "now" a great deal for both our citizens and people throughout the world (because America has a long record of giving more international aid than any other country, including governmental and private funds/services)

      Race has nothing to do with it, but other things have a lot to do with nationalism. For instance, the character of the people of this nation will make or break us. Trusting rich and famous entertainers/fashion icons/etc. shows a lack of character, and giving them power by giving them more money is suicide. Allowing judges to overrule our constitution by not being involved (remaining too ignorant to vote), following a crowd without getting the facts, allowing a biased news media to form our thinking...well, we will get what we deserve if we aren't careful. Like Franklin commented, we should work to hold on to our Republic, and if that's nationalism then we should be nationalists together.

      1. dianetrotter profile image67
        dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Good thoughts!  What do you think of relationships with other countries.  As I wrote that, I thought of people being radicalized over the Internet..  What about countries that are trying to get their nukes to travel to the US?  What value do we get from alliances from other countries?  They share intelligence and seem to have some of the same adversaries.

        1. Tim Truzy info4u profile image96
          Tim Truzy info4uposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          We should strive to keep our alliances, provided it is productive and beneficial. We should also strengthen new alliances. History has taught that is a great deterrent to war. The great city-state of Athens had to form alliances to defeat Sparta, the Allies had to work together to defeat the Axis powers, etc. If a country knows it will be facing more than one nation in a fight, strategically, the aggressor thinks twice.

        2. profile image0
          RTalloniposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Governmental relationships with other countries are too complicated to be generalized, but allying ourselves with countries having similar values helps us fight radicalization and nukes. Ignoring, even denying, that certain countries literally seek our destruction is insanity, but it is what we see from half of our political system, our media/entertainment industry, and the average person who doesn't not want to think things through. Slicing and dicing the motive(s) behind this ignore and deny behavior gives real insight into what is happening in our country. 

          The old idea of keeping enemies close is a fine but necessary line that must be continually evaluated whether we are talking of individuals, businesses, or governments. How our changeable feelings tempt us to respond to enemies has nothing to do with wisdom in dealing with them. Finding out truth instead of just taking them at their word is crucial to responding wisely to their tactics, one of which is presenting themselves as the opposite of what their purposeful intentions. This concept is another lesson from history that people are willfully ignorant of, choosing rather to follow emotive philosophies.

          1. dianetrotter profile image67
            dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Amen!

      2. Tim Truzy info4u profile image96
        Tim Truzy info4uposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        As long as it is a nationalistic fervor that encompasses all born here. I agree with you. White, Black, etc. nationalistic tendencies strike at the heart of what we believe. We believe first all men (and women) are created equal under the law and we must be willing to stand up for that.

  3. psycheskinner profile image84
    psycheskinnerposted 11 months ago

    I think it is part of the human condition to have trouble taking pride in 'us' without denigrating 'them'.  As an immigrant I see it from both sides. I see my home country making unfair assumptions about the US and also the US making unfair assumptions about my home country.  Both are good, but different places.  How do humans learn to be diverse without being judgemental?

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      That would be tough, for if you don't judge that this is better than that why would you leave that in order to have this.  Or, put another way, why choose this over that if you don't judge that it is superior?

      It's not like we're talking about choosing a red shirt over a blue one, after all, but something far more important to us.

      1. dianetrotter profile image67
        dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        I don't think the issue is saying one is better than the other.  People will put you on the defensive by saying negative things.  Example:  In an MBA class in California, a woman asked where I received my BBA.  I told her UALR - in Arkansas.  She said, "Oh that's just like a high school degree."  People make negative shots like that are nasty.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Yes they do.  IMO it is very often an effort to justify their own (often poor) choices.  An effort, then, to build themselves and their actions...by degrading others.

    2. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      You know that even happens within the US.  When I moved to California, I got a lot of flack from native born Californians.

    3. profile image0
      RTalloniposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      "How do humans learn to be diverse without being judgmental?"

      Defining words is crucial to discussing the question. What you mean by diverse may not be the same as many who use it today. The same is true about the word judgmental. Honest judgements based on truth are necessary, hating others is not.

      There are wonderful people in every country, but some of these people are trapped in governments without freedom, for instance, to speak up on behalf of those who are abused or work within the government to make changes for the good of the average person.

      No matter the circumstances (country) humans are in, Jesus the Christ is the answer to the human condition. The answer is not found "in" us, "the answer" is the Gospel of Jesus the Christ. The example of Jesus' diversity is profound, but not well understood. His judgements are sound, and safe, because they are rooted in love (another word that requires honest definition if we are to understand the various ways it is used and misused).

      1. dianetrotter profile image67
        dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Some try to conflate Christianity and nationlism and then do awful things.  God's Word  tells us the difference between giving to Caesar what is his and to God what is his.

  4. Castlepaloma profile image75
    Castlepalomaposted 11 months ago

    When I worked many years in the US, I would be happy, if someone called me a Canadian or an American. Today Corperationism has hijacked nationism and Religion a great deal. I find it more harmful than the good for all. If I had my way, I would abolish the old system and restart a new improve system. Since foresight is not the name of the game. People will be forced to continuous suffering and enslave by economics in North America.  Its always comes down to abuses, in which the power of the people will change it for good at 80% consciousness. Rarely ever it will be changed by a Religion or the Government.

    1. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      There should be a universal description of nationalism before the discussion can be had.

      Hey!  Haven't talked to you in a while!

      1. Castlepaloma profile image75
        Castlepalomaposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Eating, shopping and lying is a national pastime, lo.

        I work best with grassroot groups and strong individuals, where most of the real changes start.

        Centralized organization breeds greed and clubs you or I are not in.

        1. dianetrotter profile image67
          dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          You are in Canada, right?  How do you like the lovefest between Trudeau and TrumP?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image75
            Castlepalomaposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            It's by far, the worst relationships I have ever seen between a prime minister of Canada and a President of the US. Since the are both puppets, I don't put much stock into how these leaders, effect my life. Because I can't find a better leader for myself than me. I'm happy Trudeau made cannabis legalized. Now my girlfriend has 70% chance of being brain cancer free rather  than 3 to 10% chance on chemotherapy. How a US Government owns the rights to cannibis is a law against nature and it enslaves us.

  5. StevenHall4646 profile image80
    StevenHall4646posted 11 months ago

    Rather than nationalism, we should change the topic to patriotism, that's a race-neutral word. Anyone can be a patriot no matter what race they are.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image75
      Castlepalomaposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Patriotism follows more often to Corperationism. I would prefer individualism, as far as ism's go and let nature be the law and religion.

      1. dianetrotter profile image67
        dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Some people might equate nationalism with individualism.  Narcissists may think it is all about them and what they want.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image75
          Castlepalomaposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          At best nationism is only one part of the million parts that make up your soul. On the other end of the extreme scale of things. People like Trump are narcissists megalomaniacs. Where the universe evolves around them.

    2. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Ah!  I missed this.  I think you have a good point!  That's why I think nationalism should be defined and understood by all.  Otherwise, people support/criticize nationalism based on what they perceive it to be.  There is no unity of purpose when there is no clear understanding of the goal or objective.

  6. StevenHall4646 profile image80
    StevenHall4646posted 11 months ago

    We should move more to patriotism than nationalism. Patriotism is a universal love that any race can have toward a country and its values.

    1. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Unfortunately, there are a few issues with patriotism.  Case in point, NFL players kneeling during the anthem.  DJT takes it to a whole 'nother level of disrespecting military and the flag, etc.   Players feel within their 1st Amendment rights to be able to protest.

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://maven.io/company/pages/privacy

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)