McCain supporters -- you can still change your mind

1. 60

   vitaebposted 16 years ago

   Reasons why not to vote for the McCain/Palin ticket
   
   Unless your net income is more than $250,000, why would you vote for McCain?
   The 3% tax cut for the wealthiest people was voted by the legislature pushed through by the Bush administration. It is due to expire. McCain wants the tax cut to be permanent.
   Obama doesn't want the tax cut renewed. In which case, the wealthiest will then be taxed as they used to be. Obama wants to give tax breaks to those families whose net income is less than the $250,000 figure.
   
   I live in a rural area of Shenandoah in Virginia. In my neighborhood I see many McCain/Palin signs indicating a vote for that ticket. And I wonder why. These are the homes of working class people, modest little places. I can't imagine what motivates these folks. McCain's economic policy follows the same pattern we have seen in the last eight years under Bush, namely, more wealth going to the wealthy while the 95% of us go without adequate health care insurance, without adequate funding for education, without adequate environmental funding and controls, without funding for rebuilding our national infrastructure�and so forth. Instead, our money is funding a war that is exhausting our resources.
   
   Is it that they are happy to continue throwing billions of dollars into a war that has no end? McCain claims he is willing to continue the war to victory even if it takes 100 years. What kind of a statement is that? How does he define a victory? No one in the Republican party has defined what a victory looks like.
   
   Is it that they are apposed to Rode vs Wade? I hear a lot from my neighbors about this issue. They are against abortion; they say it is an act of killing innocent lives. Well, so is waging war on the Iraqis and Afghanis. I also don't approve of killing lives.  I take a moral stand. However, I don't believe it is my moral right to dictate to other persons. I don't believe I have the right to take away their right to decide on issues regarding their personal lives. I don't believe it is possible to legislate morality. I can't assume that my way is the right way for everyone else.
   
   By supporting McCain, you are supporting Palin. What if she were to be required to take over the presidency? McCain's health has not been clearly explained to the people. A host of medical professionals are concerned about his chances of surviving another melanoma episode. http://therealmccain.com/doctors  What happens if Palin has to take over? Look at the way she governed her hometown when she was its mayor. Her neighbors have much to reveal about her watch as mayor: http://www.wasillaproject.com - take a look at the video there. Does anyone actually feel confident having Palin as the possible leader of our country?  Both she and McCain have been changing their narrative, wildly attempting to keep up with the rapid economic changes and coming up with solutions that make little sense. Read Robert Draper's report: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magaz … -t.html?em
   
   I realize that many of my neighbors are clinging to the past, clinging to the traditions of their family. They grew up as staunch Republicans. But times have changed. I don't believe that the Bush/Neocon Republicans reflect the values of the old school Republicans my neighbors grew up knowing. It's time to look forward and not back. Obama's values pretty much reflect the old Republican traditions. McCain and Palin in their speeches pretend they are for the common man. It's hard for me to believe McCain when I look at who he pals around with and whose interests he has supported as a Senator. You can definitely trust that McCain will continue to support the big military/industrial big-business agenda. Where does that leave us? Just look at all the money government throws away via Pentagon spending:  http://www.alternet.org/workplace/10510 … _pentagon/
   
   Isn't it obvious that we need to breath new life into our country? We need to recreate a sustainable ecology, using sustainable energy resources. We need to rebuild our infrastructure, revitalize our educational system, restore our health and well being programs, redesign our economy creating new jobs with new energy initiatives and bringing old jobs back to our shores. With Obama at the helm, we have a much better chance of accomplishing these imperatives.
   
   So, all McCain supporters, let me repeat: It's not too late to change your minds!

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2. 60

   DNKStoreposted 16 years ago

   I agree with your concerns my friend, I just don't agree with Obama being the solution.
   Personally I cannot vote for either candidate, although if I could I suppose it would have to be McCain simply because he is the lesser of 2 evils in my opinion.  Agreed, that still doesn't make for a great choice.  All the concerns you have stated are very real, however, your argument fails to move me, because in all fairness, it is totally one-sided.
   
   Senator Obama has really great IDEAS.  Experience at running a country? Zip!  Say what you will about McCain, he is at least a known quantity.  His ties are undoubtedly to rich Americans, but just who were you planning to work for anyway?  Joe Schmuck down the street who is just as broke as we are?
   
   John McCain has at least proven his moral fiber on the field of battle, as well as in congress, and to the best of our knowledge, has no ties to the ongoing socialist effort that has been trying to change our country since the late '50s at least.
   
   Once again, I am not arguing your points.  I am just pointing out that they are lopsided.  I don't like everything about McCain/Palin, but I would have voted for Hillary before I would vote for someone as inexperienced as Obama, and I would NEVER vote for Hillary, as she too is a known quantity.

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3. 60

   vitaebposted 16 years ago

   Thanks, DNK, for your comments. Here's my reply:
   McCain's erratic/maverick display in his years as a Senator do not in my mind constitute adequate experience for the role of chief executive. As for his moral fiber on the field of battle, essentially what he did was bomb and machine gun from an airplane going home after a hard days work to a comfortable bed. Having been a foot soldier in the Korean episode, I hardly consider his role in the air as being part of the field of battle. Yes, he did get shot down, and yes, he did suffer extreme hardship as a prisoner of war. Does that experience automatically prepare him for the role of chief executive?
   
   Obama has shown his tenacity, courage and abilities as well. From small beginnings he managed to educate himself, he put in his time helping poor people in their struggles.
   
   McCain came back from Vietnam, found his wife had become a cripple, divorced her and married a wealthy lady belonging to a beer and liquor business. When the members of MADD [Mothers Against Drunk Driving] lobbied congress for stricter laws curtailing TV advertising that promoted alcohol, McCain worked in the Senate to defeat this measure. Of course he would. He was [and still is by proxy] in the business of manufacturing and selling alcoholic beverages.
   
   McCain likewise supports measures that serve the wishes of big business - I am referring to multi-national conglomerates that use every advantage possible to exploit and control. I'm not against business. I am against businesses that just don't give a damn about human needs, our environment, who only exploit for monetary gain and to continue to have powerful control.
   
   Obama doesn't have any business of his own to safeguard and promote. Obama is not a socialist by any means, but he does encourage socially responsible imperatives. And why not? what's wrong with a social democracy such as what prevails in most European countries? What's wrong with universal health care, with government supported education, with programs that encourage alternative energy? Social democracy does nothing to curtail accumulation of wealth. Private enterprise, entrepreneurial actions are not impeded, indeed, are encouraged. The rich can get rich, but they don't have to get filthy rich. They can do their share in supporting the common good. Under Bush and under McCain, we wind up with socialism for the wealthy. Does such not disturb you?

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   Melissa Gposted 16 years ago

   If I wasn't already an Obama supporter, this would have been enough to convince me.
   
   Great job, vitaeb!

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   vitaebposted 16 years ago

   Thank you Melissa. I'm hoping this talk will move some M/P people to the other side.
   
   I appreciate what you wrote a couple of weeks ago in your hub:
   "Michelle Obama is also a mom who wants to make the world a better place for her children. Joe Biden is a father and a grandfather who wants to make the world a better place for his children and grandchildren. Barack Obama is a father who wants to make the world a better place for his children and for the children of millions of middle class, working class, and poverty-stricken families throughout America. He demonstrated this dedication through his work as a community organizer in Chicago and through the plans he has set forth to strengthen our economy."

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   Make Moneyposted 16 years ago

   Yeah Obama has it in the bag.
   
   If it does not show that way on Nov 4th then there is a problem.

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7. 61

   Melissa Gposted 16 years ago

   Thanks, vitaeb. Glad you enjoyed that.

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   Paragliderposted 16 years ago

   A vote for McCain/Palin is a body blow to the whole world.

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9. 60

   DNKStoreposted 16 years ago

   Thanks Again Sir, for your reply.
   As I have already overstated, I will not be a supporter of either side in this election.
   
   One point I feel compelled to answer though is your question, "What is wrong with Socialism?"
   
   There is not enough space available on the web to answer that question completely, but the short version is this: Socialism moves in when a society abandons Personal Responsibility.
   
   America, the greatest nation the world has ever known, did not achieve greatness through social programs, but rather through the commitment, personal courage, and moral fiber of our ancestors.
   
   I hope my comments do not sound as though I am heckling you, as they are intended rather as a counterpoint to your well reasoned argument.
   
   I feel that if this country elects Barack Hussein Obama, it does so at our peril.

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10. 60

    vitaebposted 16 years ago

    Hello DNK:
    
    Thanks for you comments. I do not in any way feel you are heckling me. But I do feel you misconstrued my statements regarding social democracy, which is not a philosophy based on socialism. It's a practice based on the idea that a society is there for the benefit of its members. And this means that the society, through the agencies of its governments, local and national, supports the populace in all ways in which the individual cannot easily do for itself. This means providing roads, universal education and health services...and so forth.
    
    You state: "America, the greatest nation the world has ever known, did not achieve greatness through social programs, but rather through the commitment, personal courage, and moral fiber of our ancestors."
    
    If you closely look at the past 200+ years, you will see that so many of the great things we have in our country came about through the struggles and sacrifices of many lives to wrest from those in power [American Revolution, Civil Rights Movement, Woman's Rights Movements, Rights of the Workers to have Union Representation - to name of a few]
    a chance to live in a fair and free society. In my mind, social democracy is another term for FAIRNESS, plain and simple.
    
    Your statement, "I feel that if this country elects Barack Hussein Obama, it does so at our peril." smacks of fear mongering more than something you can really back up with a cogent discussion. I implore you, for the sake of clarity, just to listen the latest speech Obama has given. He spoke at James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Virginia, 20 miles from my home. Here's the link. Please listen to the man speak, then tell me he endorses socialism.
    http://www.wmra.org/obamarally.html He speaks for 37 minutes. I hope you will give him that much of your time before you make your claim.
    
    Thanks for participating in this discussion.
    Vitae

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    Mighty Momposted 16 years ago

    Excellent points. I would like to see you craft them into a hub, as I believe more hubbers will see them and particiate in a comment thread that way. You've done all the hard work -- just post it differently.
    Of course, I fear the possibility of converting anyone at this late date is small to none. Notwithstanding the alarming number of "still undecideds" the media seems to be able to find (I suspect their crack advance teams are out searching in caves and under rocks), it blows my mind to think that ANYONE could be undecided with 5 days left.
    
    I think your neighbors are right on the money with their pro-McCain arguments. It's against their "religion" so to speak to vote for someone non Republican. They are willing to vote against their own economic best interest in the name of a moral absolute. How many of these people will personally ever have to face an unwanted pregnancy in their lives? And yet (as you so rightly point out) they have no problem sacrificing the sacred lives of other innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    
    The biggest problem I see is people's unwillingness to READ or WATCH. Instead, they rely on rumor and innuendo. And fear. And the McCain campaign has had a field day with Barack HUSSEIN Obama. And his so-called terrorist pals. And his socialist agenda.
    LOL. If you forced any of these naysayers to even define the words "socialism" and "fascism" or even "democracy" or "republic" for that matter, they'd sputter and cough.
    
    I'm really sick of people citing Obama's lack of experience. Exactly how much presidential or executive experience do they think George Washington had? A career in bed with lobbyists doesn't in my mind make you qualified. And if you ARE going to use that argument, then by rights you HAVE to apply the same standard to Mrs. Palin, who could well be called upon to become the president before McCain's term is up.
    
    In the end, there simply is no sound argument for voting for McCain. If you are a lifelong Republican, wait this one out and try again in 2012. Maybe they'll field a stronger team then. Or who knows, maybe you'll learn to love living in the USSA:-).

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    vitaebposted 16 years ago

    Hello Mighty Mom - I suppose you are right about mking any late conversions. And I agree with you, Repubs who can't make up their mind - and I have encountered a number of them - just ought not to vote, wait it out until next time. Reading the news on various Internet media sites, it appears that Palin is positioning herself for the 2012 campaign. Presuming Obama is the next president, she will have four years to study up, and who knows? she just might become a real contender. But her politics are not mine. Frankly, it is difficult for me to even begin to understand the republican/conservative viewpoint. The people voting republican say they want smaller government. Under a republican government, the last eight years have shown us how much spending they can do...spending that lines the pockets of the military/industrial conglomerate. When Clinton finished his term in 1999, he left the treasury with a large surplus. Now, under Bush, we the people are trillions in the hole. So, I ask, what do these people mean when they claim they want less government? What I am saying ties in with what you are saying, namely, that so many of my neighbors don't appear to bother thinking through these issues, but merely regurgitate soundbytes that come their way. And my last question is this: where does McCain sit when he is doing his thinking? He seems to be captured by the same soundbytes. Well, I spouted off enough for this year.

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    livelongerposted 16 years ago

    I think Palin is finished. She'll be lucky to keep Alaska.
    
    The fact is that she wasn't hampered by having McCain on the ticket, he was hampered by having her on the ticket.
    
    She is charismatic and is good at firing up the base, but the base (thankfully, considering how awful it is) is not the electoral force it has promised to be. And she's an utter turnoff for moderates and (genuine) independents.
    
    No amount of rote memorization of talking points and policy matters will erase the perception that she's a partisan right-winger with poor judgment.
    
    She might be delusional about her chances in 2012, but as an egomaniac, she is prone to that sort of thing.

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    143pepaysposted 16 years ago

    In case some do not understand, McCain ha an irritaion problem, hot headed, might have a 100% PTSD - post traumatic stress disorder. He was gravely indulged with drugs in Vietnam and his situation might be worsen. Imagine anyone consumed through 5 years of torment and deprivation as a POW. Have McCain already treated from psychological trauma? He must have that secret struggle. Most anathematizing pieces of grounds of his unfaithfulness, lacking integrity is that when he split up with his first wife, an early model, after she was defaced in an automobile accident, resulting him to tell others, she's not the woman i got married. McCain is even kinda person devoid of intellectual artistry. Someone who graduated 5th from the bottom of his class, does this man fit for the purpose? As the election draws nearer, we should get more lines to which we can discover some canvasses about our hero. Which is which? I found one nice site also to look at, kindly view <promotional link snipped>

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