Just Pray Away the Gay

Those who enter (anti) gay therapy do not become heterosexual. As you know, they continue to have same sex attraction. My understanding is that their brains are wired more like the heterosexual female - thus the attraction to men. Therefore, their attraction is natural. A good book to read about being gay and Christian is: Torn, by Justin Lee.

You've said your peace well.

I am sure I have read this before but cannot see a comment by me ;however second time round was brilliant and I vote up and share. Have a wonderful weekend my dear friend. I am back after a hectic week with the grandkids; and so glad to be back reading your gems too..

Eddy.

What perfect timing to re-publish this brilliant poem... loved reading it again...

What with the Supremes thinking about Gay Marriage and DOMA let's hope against hope that the Far Right Justices vote based on the Constitution and NOT their Religion... 'cause you can't...

as you say Pray Away The Gay!!! Sharing Again.

It will be interesting to see whether the Boy Scouts and the churches and other organizations that sponsor Scout troops will bring themselves to stop discriminating against gay youths and scoutmasters. The situation is analogous to don't ask, don't tell in the military. Change is long overdue.

such a great message in your hub. i feel that everyone should be accepted for who they are on the inside and on the out. voted up.

Leslie.. what a hub.. we need to all remember God loves us all. NO judging AT ALL!!,, that is none of our business. just like My life is no ones business.. people kill me how they want to judge everyone else. and not remember what they have done in their lives.

many blessings my friend

sharing

Debbie

Equality, tolerance, acceptance, and love. You share such a great message here. I hope everyone gets a glimpse of this awesome poem.

The Boy Scouts take a small step into the 21st Century:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/boy-scouts-co...

We have faith in you Leslie.... Center yourself! ;' }

Leslie, this is a very important message for many people, God bless.

Thanks Ken..it's all about love...unconditional love.

you are welcome, Leslie.

you are right on, Tillson. Ken

Jesus said the second greatest commandment is "Love one another as I have loved you." What happened to the Christians? Didn't they read the Bible? (Yes, I am one, but I pay attention.)

In your unreproducible way you've hit all the nails on the head! Go girl and don't stop. Every underdog is singing your praises. Again, Go Leslie!

Voted up, useful, and interesting!!!

No nookie for Vlad the Impaler! No wonder they start sucking blood, rather than face! Me, I kiss the author, gentle dominatrix, swing-both- ways saloon-door-smarty, who combines wit and grace, wisdom and original face... xxoo KT

"Actually we are what we believe and we do what we are."

Vladimir, I believe you live in a world of make-believe.

If you, for one small moment, were to open your eyes and see a much bigger, much more wonderful world, with infinitely more potential than any conjured up god could ever be responsible for, then you might find life a little more exciting.

If your only point of view is from the position of guilt and "sin," then that will colour life.

IMHO

1) idiocy abounds

2) if you think the world is 6,000- 12,000 years old and the Creator of the universe has a beard... you'll believe anything

3) everyone matters

4) Just read this earlier today: You don't have to be an animal to support animal rights, and you don't have to be gay to support gay rights

Actually we are what we believe and we do what we are. The faith in Word of God was broken as original sin in Garden of Eden and has to be restored. If we change unbelief to faith we are saved. It means believing in uncompromised Word of God.

Believers were already judged two thousand years ago. Unbelievers will be judged according to the Law. Sorry, last group has bad prognosis (© 2009 Vladimir Uhri).

Very healthy skepticism, Andy..... well put.

Nicely put ImKarn23. Now I'm just a simple guy, but I can never get my head around why the issues of a bygone age are still issues in the present day, yet they are nonetheless.

I mean, can we ever move on from these matters? I think there's still a lot of animal left in mankind, and I say that because of the human savagery that is still alive and well around the world, both in its physical and verbal form.

Now I'm not a religious man, but I know many folks who do have strong faith (some of whom happen to be Gay). I've often heard them talk about how 'their' God is all loving and all forgiving. If that were the case, then what's with this judgement day malarkey? And why does Hell exist as an alternative destination for so the called immorals, or sinners of this world?

And while I'm on a rant, if God worshippers are sent to hell for being BAD, does this mean that Devil worshippers are sent to Heaven for being GOOD?

Hmm! Now there's food for thought!

Andy Aitch

Atleast we can agree on this...there is a cure for ignorance, and it ain't prayin'.

okay, tell us when you're coming to NY....

(and yes, I know you're one gal who is at once totally blue and red hot)

It was a lovely party (great, artistic, beautiful people) with a post snow hot tub for our closest pals, with the clouds racing pass the moon. If you weren't freezing your tootsies and knocking your knees together up there with the elks and moose, we'd invite you over! You would like (see F'book shots).

Happy, healthy, hot, cool and adventurous (the good kind) 2013 to you Leslie. xxoo back

My ex and I visited Russia in 1991 and it was interesting, and instructive, to see not only St. Petersburg, but our "fiercesome enemy" right before their collapse. The same is going on today with gay people in America (and elsewhere) -- we are witnessing the collapse of the fearful, backward-facing, unkind gay bashers and related haters, as gays and lesbians gain their rightful place in society and at the table of humanity.

Last night, we threw a party and a lovely younger couple came -- he a lily white Caucasian and his wife a beautiful Nigerian -- and no one blinked (except perhaps at her beauty). And I'm old enough to remember when interracial marriage was illegal in a bunch of states! So... bye-bye old school & ignorant, your days are numbered (thank God). p.s. Leslie & Ruby, I'm still fairly new here. How does one get so many followers? What to do? thanks & happy New Year, Ken

Definitely a message that needs to be brought to everyones attention. I don't know how any human being can sit in judgement of another...or why so many think that somebody elses companion is any business of theirs. Thanks for sharing.

Hey Leslie , i get it, incest and rape ok but NOT gay! Screw em girl, be who u want..im not but u can be... all i ask is that u continue to look so lovely! Pretty girl you are.

This important message keeps on going. Good for you. Glad I read this and all those comments!

I was compelled to come back to tell you that your hubs are without a doubt the most inclusive and i love you for your courage to go against the status quo. LESS POWER TO THE PEOPLS WHO HATE PEOPLE WHO HATE OTHERS BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT. I have a family member who is different, the most beautiful person, i have never known. Thank you. Keep writing. It's not just tongue and ckeek, it's very important. God's speed..

LOL -- Straight on all topics..... you speak your changing mind... straight on. .... You're cool!

I Love your style...... straight on!!!

Powerful my friend and hitting hard with important message !!

You are a great person and a great writer and I find you 100% inspiring.

I share and vote you that 'Up up and away!"!!!!

Take care and have a great weekend.

Eddy.

My pleasure if I encouraged you!

Awgeewillikers, Imkarn: "an intelligent, tolerant, warm-hearted, critical-thinking woman" is a good description of YOU!

Thank you for the lovely invitation. Nothing wrong with cyber coffee. :-)

ImKarn- what a good discussion about an important example of a mindset which proclaims the very opposite of what its founder exemplified and taught followers to express: the love of fellowmen unconditionally; it even counters the intent of founders of this country, meant to be 'for the people and by the people'. None of that suggests omitting some of the people for exercising their rights!

It's especially meritorious in that it inspired discussion of different perspectives of the matter and an admirable mutual willingness to get past the same-old-same-old stumblingblocks which often sabotage any real meeting-of-minds. I really feel the goodwill here.

You've stirred up some very positive individual comments with a preponderance of them sincerely in agreement that ugly prejudice and bigotry have no place in civilized human interaction by any standard and are especially out of order among people claiming to be followers of a loving teacher.

Your poem gets right to the point and defines the problem. I admire how you step right up and call things what they are! It encourages others to examine their stands or their indifference and to speak up, too.

I can't help but think that seeds of clarity like this really do shed light on erroneous thinking and make a difference. Keep it up! (Not that you need permission or support - you're fully propelled!)

:-) Hugs.

Hi Imkarn:-)

Really sorry my comment got you depressed and you were right...

Holland used to be lightyears AHEAD. With extreme new politicians like Pim Fortuyn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn....

Holland made a dramatic shift in terms of tolerance. The link on him on Wikipedia says it all and you'll be shocked for knowing he was openly gay. He could have taken an another more peaceful road in politics but sadly enough he didn't.

Being a far-right populist he was the first politician to get murdered in 2002! People got scared, people looked for someone to blaim and Geert Wilders is our politician who perfectly knows how to feed on the fear of people.

He needs to watch out every day in Holland to not get murdered himself. He is even worse than Pim Fortuyn but a link to someone so polluted by negativity is not worth it.

I'm happy we met too! VictoriaLynn is a great writer and you'll like her work as much as I do!

To get in a different mood? http://escobana.hubpages.com/hub/Sweetheart-What-a...

You'll laugh at it and find out were quite alike:-) Hugs Escobana!

This is a great piece.

What a powerful message! I really enjoyed your poem. Thanks to Escobana for sharing it!

Great Hub Imkarn!

Just came across this one through another good one and all of a sudden I realize America and Holland seem much the same.

Holland used to be that tolerant little country, free spirits, open to any culture or sex.

Today gays in Holland get treated worse than ever, anti-gay therapy exists in very religious towns and people suffer badly from an anti-social environment among many cultures and religions.

I left Holland for many reasons but the main one....intolerance and shit weather.

Valencia is surprisingly friendly to all gays even though Spain in general is very Catholic and strict in its values. It was here that I found out about the best gay bars and clubs in town!

So it is possible! Voted up, shared and super!

I am so impressed, continually, refreshed every minute of the day, by all the technical and scientific achievements of man. The sophisticated mathematics, knowledge of the laws of physics, organisational abilities, communication, innovation....need I go on?

All of this is so wonderful, so inspiring, that it seems so, so, pointless worrying about what people do together in the privacy of their own lives.

If there was one lesson to be gained from everything apparently taught by that man Jesus, it was to deal with the plank in your own eye, before you worry about the little mote in someone else's.

In other words, mind your own business, sort that out first, then society will follow in your wake.

They want to pray away the gay and also the theory of evolution. The most dangerous thing is a closed mind.

Powerful words beautifully expressing an important sentiment. Voted up and shared.

I have already shared this great hub and will continue to my friend.

All I can do from the side-lines is watch and cheer for the most positive, enlightened, humanity-leaning choice. Best wishes to all you American people here in the Hub. Hope you get what you need as a leader.

Amen to this brilliant piece of work. It's amazing how ignorant many human beings are about beautiful differences. I will be voting 'NO' on election day and hope other Americans will too. I can't believe they even feel justified putting this amendment on the docket. Loved your repeating line of ''Pray away the Gay." I hit every button my friend because God made us all and he loves us all as we are all in his image. Blessings

Great voice, Leslie! God loves us all, regardless of race, creed or sexual preference. Why can't Man?

Your poem is awesome! and yes it really does make people think. If (somehow) people started praying away the ignorance and bigotry instead, there would be a whole lot of prayin' going on!

It makes me smile to know that there are so many people of ALL sexual orientations gunning to end this hatred and intolerance. I'm gay as well, came out at 12, now engaged to my better half of almost 6 years. It is NOT a choice! I was born this way, I'm proud of who I am, and I don't give a rat's a$$ anymore what ignorant bigots may have to say about me.

Now the question remains: where will we be getting married? The US or Canada? Hopefully Pres. Obama will win, because I have a feeling it will be Canada if he does not! :)

Well done. There would be so much more peace in the world if bigotry, intolerance and hatred were prayed away. Voted up.

Very well done. Great poem, and important message.. Sharing! I love the way you handled this topic. So right-on-target.

Voted up, useful, awesome and..well, sort of funny, but not like humor, more irony.

Just a little off course,

Away from dis course,

Came about be course,

You weren't in ta course

In the usual way.

Of course!

Don't you mean discourse, Leslie?!!!!

I cannot disagree with any of your latest post, My Minds Eye53. We are getting a lot closer, thank you for the clarification.

Your reality is not my reality, but that is ok. No two people are alike. Yes religion has been at the core of a lot of bad things because people use that as an excuse. The same people would find something else to use as an excuse if religion wasn't handy. You and I are not that different as people. I am a Christian, but I am also a sinner. We are held accountable for our actions and words. You must not have studied any religion to not know the basics. Forgiveness is only given when one is truly sorry. Would you forgive someone that you knew in your heart that their apology was a sham?

It is not a perfect world. I like the order religion gives my life. I do believe in God. I do not necessarily believe in all organized religions. I choose to grow in my search for truth and knowledge and there are a lot of Christians out there that believe as I do. It is the zealous, fanatics and bad Christians that get all the press. Just like children, they choose to hear only what agrees with them.

@Jonnycomelately thank you for going back and reading my comments again. You have a right to your opinion and I respect that, just try and not lump all Christians (or religious people) together. Keep your heart open to recognize those who would open their heart to you. Christians are stereotyped just as gays, blacks and any other group of people someone wants to bash or make fun of. Also if a persons only exposure to these groups are through tv and news then sure they are going to have a warped view. Plus a lot of people just will not give up the old ways.

Last, I cannot speak for all religions I can only speak for myself and I am a project that is forever evolving.

Ok, I apologize for misreading your post.... I was reading your words as though you agreed with christians regarding homosexuality as an illness.

You question about gays being enlightened.... that was not my meaning. I don't regard any of us as fully "enlightened," although some may be more than others, and this does not depend upon (in my opinion) a person's orientation, or religious leanings.

Enlightenment for me means a deeper understanding of the reasons for "my" being, "my" doing, "my" nature, "my" opinions, etc. Not using the "me" as something special.... each of us reading this can speak the word "me" and be referring to ourselves.

I suggest that true prayer will be just this: an in-searching for, what christians refer to as, the holy spirit. Followers of the Buddhist way call it meditation. It's the same thing. Out of this in-searching comes a very wonderful awareness and appreciation of life and all its ramifications.

So I warm to you if you are praying in this way. However, if any of the prayer makes the presumption that "jonnycomelately" is a sinner, and that the christian must "do something" about jonnycomelately, then I take exception to that.

It does mean something to me. I can certainly remain friends with any christian, or of any faith/persuasion, but if my independence of thought and life is questioned on the basis of someone else's belief, surely I am entitled to reject it?

I can apply the same standards to christians in that they (yourself included) will pray if they want to. I can't stop the action, not entitled to, but I can criticize the premise behind it all.

And another thing, why why why do you care if someone prays for you? Does it hurt to be prayed for? If it doesn't mean anything to you, then it doesn't. As a Christian, I pray. I have an atheist friend who doesn't mind me praying for him. We don't try to convert each other. We both know we are who we are. We manage to stay good friends.

@jonnycomelately

Have you read everything I have written in these comments? It doesn't sound like you are reading my words at all. I never said I thought it was an illness, medical science has proven it is not. I think I am pretty honest with myself, maybe I am being misunderstood.

So are you saying that only gays are enlightened and those who are Christians are not? Because that is how that reads. And what exactly does enlightenment mean to you? If you think I am not enlightened, then enlighten me with your vast wisdom you have gained from being gay.

Go back and read all that I have written, I never said one thing against being gay. I would also like to know why is it ok to bash Christians?

"I think most Christians believe it is an illness ....." Back to your belief system again, My Minds Eye53. It's what you believe. Can you ever come to the possibility that the belief itself is at fault? I don't mind what belief you have, provided it is not used to judge others. You said "....but as I will not judge gays...." yet your judgment is inherent in the belief that it's a "sickness." It is not a sickness with me! The presumption that we have to be prayed for is arrogance on the part of christians. Christians have far more to contend with in their own lives, and aught to sort themselves out first.....

Let me tell you what the "sickness" really is. (And please, I am not angry at you, or trying to silence your point of view, just trying to expand you mind to other possibilities.)

The real sickness comes in homosexual people when they are ostracized by their community, bullied, belittled, made to feel not wanted. These "anti-"s cause all manner of rejection syndromes, sadness, depression, fear and, as you will be well aware, suicide.

The remedy is not in homosexual people trying to change what they cannot change, because it's a fundamental part of our makeup, but for people who are, like yourself, good-intentioned and kind at heart, to open up to knowledge and love beyond your beliefs.

I come back to the last statement in my previous post: honesty about one's self. Becoming fully aware of what is in one's mental makeup is the first step to enlightenment. Only your willingness in this direction will start the ball rolling.

I think most Christians believe it is an illness and so the power of prayer will help. I have never heard of anyone praying for the gay in someone to go away. When I have been in group prayer it is usually prayers for those suffering from illnesses or loss of a job. We also pray for our country. I know there are Christians that are like what you portray here, but shouldn't you be showing them compassion also? Don't they need to be prayed for? Only God knows what is truly in our hearts. If you don't believe in God, shouldn't you show tolerance for those who do. I know horrible things have been done in the name of God, but shouldn't we be understanding that something made these people the way they are? Not all Christians are good, but as I will not judge gays, I will not judge them either.