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A Discussion With Manatita on Spiritual Philosophy - Part 2

Updated on June 30, 2018
Sean Dragon profile image

Sean is a teacher who is writing about his spiritual adventures to help other people find balance and self-respect.

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Father, I will be Thy faithful companion, loving and sincere, throughout Eternity. Shape me and make me worthy of my part in Thy cosmic play and Thy divine Mission.

— Sri Chinmoy

An Ongoing Adventure

At the first part of this spiritual adventure, my Brother Manatita helped me, and I hope you too, to understand the term of reincarnation. In this second part, we will continue with some more questions about the Karma. I hope you'll enjoy it as I did.

Manatita, spreading the Light
Manatita, spreading the Light

Spiritual Adventure, Part 2

Ioannis: I wholeheartedly agree with you, my brother. My sudden illumination happened to me at the age of seventeen, through reading a book. I found it "accidentally", and I read it in one breath! Then my life changed. I knew that everything has its meaning and nothing is random. I am sure that I had prepared myself and then the book came, a reaction to my action!

Isn't it marvellous that this Universal Law of Karma is a Universal Law in Physics too? The third law of Newton:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

The Unity of all Knowledge!

My next question, since every one of our actions determines our lives with the reaction they cause, what is the first significant action?

I quote the words of a beloved Christian author, who have marked my first spiritual steps, Emmet Fox:

“All day long the thoughts that occupy your mind, your Secret Place, as Jesus calls it, are molding your destiny for good or evil; in fact, the truth is that the whole of our life’s experience is but the outer expression of inner thought. Now we can choose the sort of thoughts that we entertain. It will be a little difficult to break a bad habit of thought, but it can be done. We can choose how we shall think—in point of fact, we always do choose—and therefore our lives are just the result of the kind of thoughts we have.”

Do you believe that our thoughts are the first essential kind of action?

Manatita: Significant actions are naturally those which bring joy. If you are in the dark, then you will seek the Light. If you are in the mind-room, which is restless and chaotic, then it’s your duty to enter the room of the Heart … the room of simplicity and identification … of oneness, the room of the child.

The great Seer Swami Vivekananda says that anything which makes us weak, we should reject like poison. ‘Expansion is life, narrowness is death’, he said. So our significant actions should entail empathy, selflessness, compassion, Love … all the things that will enhance our joy.

Again, perhaps the first significant action is to have a belief in Something Higher, or even re-birth, because it is then that we are conscious of our true Source or Self. Then we do all for the glory of God. Finally, the soul decides. It may be harmful for me to enter the life of sensual pleasure, but in another soul it will be a significant act. Paradoxical eh? Truth is, Bro, or it isn’t Truth.

We are mostly the victims of fate or destiny. They do not have the last word, but they coil around us like snakes. So to an extent, some actions are ordained. Now everything begins inside in seed form and so thoughts come later. Thoughts are of the mind and compassion is of the Heart, the spiritual Heart.

The body is mystical. There is the subtle … the causal … like a seed planted underground; everything begins inwardly, before manifestation takes place.

Ioannis: Hm! There is where I need your help. I can approach the idea of the "seed", but I am not sure that I understand the origin of it. Am I the planter of the seed, or the seeds are there already, within me, and I have to choose which of them I will nourish?

Manatita: From the Highest spiritual standpoint, God is the only Doer and as such the planter of the seed. Let us just say that the potential is within and some aspects of Karma are there too. But at the same time, each soul has limited freedom to choose. I may see a beautiful desire which runs of me, like rain falling of a lotus. Or I may cultivate a negative thought, which is sown as a seed and manifests outwardly later on. My first hard question. Hope the answer helps.

Source

Ioannis: Yes! It is a great help! But let me ask you something more about the seed, and your answer will lead me to the next question. Did I understand right, that every seed may have a different result, depending on how we nourish it?

Manatita: Yes. The seed is associated with desires and as you can appreciate, there are many! I wanted to go to India, but found my Guru in the West. That desire then became dormant, although most recently, I have been thinking that I won’t mind going.

The seed and its desire are related and would give the necessary result. Ambition is the drive of the rich man and aspiration or longing that of the devotee. So the rich man will get money or wealth and the devotee will get inner opulence, as the seeds will be of empathy, love, compassion … oneness.

Again, Ignorance (temptations, limitations, imperfections, bondage), will necessitate a similar reaction.

Source

Ioannis: I am glad because your answer comes to round out my idea about the seed! Through my spiritual studies, until now, I have understood that Love is the essential way to nourish the various seeds, to achieve one’s divine potential.

When we act with Love, when we choose Love in every moment of our lives, then every one of these seeds will become the blessing they are meant to be. Even if we have nourished it with the wrong desire at the start, we can change it at any moment by choosing Love! Do you agree with this idea?

Manatita: Generally we can and I note your emphasis on choice to others. I am devotional by nature and the Bhakti ultimately sees God’s hand in all. Duty is in our hands … actions also, but the results are always up to God. That which is pre-ordained and has to happen, will happen, according to the needs of the soul and the sanctioning, approval or toleration of the Supreme.

Ioannis: This concept of the pre-ordained future always was a challenging theme for me to accept. Please, mind my ignorance. I can't find the free will in this concept; I can't see the power of Love over Karma. I wanted to believe that God in His infinite wisdom has prepared every possible path and it's up to me the one I'll choose to walk.

Any moment of my life I can take any possible turn, therefore the end of the road is a combine of my decisions and His alternatives, not pre-ordained. I am sure He knows already my route, but I am responsible for this, not Him. Please, be patient and try to explain to me where I am wrong.

Manatita: My Brother, it is not a question of right and wrong. Life is a series of stages and our viewpoints are clouded by where we are on the level of evolution … the rung of the ladder we are on, if you like. I say here: ‘I note your emphasis on choice to others.’ Because I know that you have taken that route.

I also say: ‘according to the needs of the soul and the sanctioning, approval or toleration of the Supreme.’ Grace is always the last word and Karma can be nullified, either by God or the intervention of a God-realized Soul. At one level, we have to make the effort, at a higher level, what we have is ‘limited freedom.’ God is the only Doer.

That part appears to be missing in your understanding of things. In some things, try as we may, we cannot kick against the pricks, because it has been so ordained for higher purposes. Spiritual Masters sometimes change things and the same Spiritual Masters; sometimes leave them alone, purely because they have to happen for a higher reason known only to God.

There are many examples. But again, this is just my position according to my understanding of those whom I love and admire. They do not differ, not to me.

Sri Chinmoy on the Spiritual Master

End of part 2.

To be continued… (link to part 3)

© 2018 Ioannis Arvanitis

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    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      2 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Yes, my dear, Li-Jen, Ioannis is my birth name, and I am grateful to my parents for this!

      So, on Monday we will have the results! Hm! We will need some extra time for praying these days! I will send you my positive energy, don't worry.

      Make happy thoughts!

      Sean

    • Li-Jen Hew profile image

      Li-Jen Hew 

      2 months ago

      Oh....but Ioannis is your birth name right? Interesting to know where you lived in your past life...or at least feel that you lived that. Haha, you sharing the article is a contributory factor in getting Manatita's help too and you shared part of the dialogue. Don't be so humble. Just kidding....Work is tedious and my exam results are on Monday. So scared to tell you lol. And yeah, I remember your article about fear haha.Thanks! :)

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      2 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Hello, my dear Li-Jen! They are both my real name. Ioannis is the Greek form and Sean the Celtic form of John - I love Ireland, and I know that I have lived there in a past life, that's why I use it - and it comes from the Hebrew name Yohanan that means "Graced by God". I love them both! I love it in all languages: Giovanni, Juan, Jean, Jon, Ivan...

      About your question now, I believe you've got the best answer from my Brother, so I have nothing more to say - I couldn't, anyway, to be honest! Ha!

      Thank you for reading and asking.

      How do the things in work go, by the way? I wish you the best.

      Sean

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      2 months ago from london

      To Li-Jen ~

      Life is not the result of our thoughts. Love is the revelation of Life and Life is the manifestation of Love. The 'mind' lies within life and thoughts are of the mind. They are a necessary function of God's creation, but can also hinder us tremendously.

      Indeed thoughts are one of the greatest impediments of spiritual living and all these great spiritual exercises, are predominantly for making the mind calm, quiet and vacant, for it is only then that one becomes receptive to the Higher Light. An overactive or chaotic mind (thoughts) is always a problem to the peace-seeker.

      How we perceive life depends on culture, environment, faith, friends, schooling … to some extent. But when I speak of the propensity of the soul, I'm usually speaking of one's level of Consciousness. There are many rungs on the spiritual ladder of evolution. I was born in Grenada and grew up there, but some of my spiritual views are radically different.

      So it is all based on personal growth, inner development and this is according to karma and God's choice hour or calling of the devotee.

      God is the seed here. Seek the Source (Seed) first. Let your longing be intense and you will find God. I note Sri Ramakrishna's video. It is very short but filled with gems. Have a look. Much Love, my sweet friend.

    • Li-Jen Hew profile image

      Li-Jen Hew 

      2 months ago

      Hi Ioannis or Sean..which is your real name? Which do you prefer?Thanks for the interesting article by you and Manatita....I was having impossible thoughts when I read that life is the result of our thoughts..since there are things beyond our control haha. It determines how we perceive life.These are challenging questions that have been answered....So seeds mean the source within us that will determine results. Seeds like our thoughts, desires so on?

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      2 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Ha! Believe me, my dear Brother, Chris, I need it more than you! I think that a man with your Heart is on the right path, so don't worry about Karma. Thank you once again.

      Much Love to you and all your beloved ones, wherever they are...

      Sean

    • cam8510 profile image

      Chris Mills 

      2 months ago from Missoula, Montana through August 2018

      I am enjoying the questions and the answers in these hubs. But for now, I must admit, I am lost. Maybe a hub, "Karma for Dummies," would be helpful. I'm looking forward to part three.

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      3 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Yes, my brother Eric, Karma is sometimes nearly "self judgment". Excellent remark!

      How can we teach children? This was my agony too, but I think my beloved Brother, Jesus has shown us the way. Our lives must be our teaching to children!

      Thank you for your significant feed-back!

      Sean

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      3 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Another excellent addition. Karma is so interesting for a Christian. Grace? Deserve? Can we earn or "unearn" the blessings of Christ. "Who among us shall cast the first stone?" Karma is sometimes nearly "self judgment".

      Can we teach a 7 year old that the errors they make will remain with them forever?

      Marvelous contemplations. Thank you much

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      3 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Thank you, my friend, Maurice. I appreciate your words.

      You send me very good energy!

      Sean

    • newbizmau profile image

      Maurice Glaude 

      3 months ago from Mobile, AL

      You've really done it this time Sean!

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      3 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Gratitude to the Lantern Carrier!

      Thank you, my Brother, Manatita, for giving me the chance to participate in this discussion. Thank you for making me feel that every drop in the Ocean, even the smallest one, is the Ocean Itself, and for this is significant to His plan!

      In the same Ocean, we meet!

      Sean

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      3 months ago from london

      Another sublime Lantern Carrier and a lofty piece by Guruji. The video is also excellent and with inspirational extracts on the Guru. Gratitude ...much!

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      3 months ago from london

      Venkatachari Ji,

      You are a very perceptive soul. Thank you so much!

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      3 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      I thank you, my Brother Venkatachari, for your beautiful comment! Your comments always add more quality to my Hubs. Thank you for your noble Heart. I can see that you are more capable of understanding the wise words of my Brother, Mantita, than me. I am sure that your comment can help a lot of people to recap our discussion.

      Om Shanti!

      Sean

    • Venkatachari M profile image

      Venkatachari M 

      3 months ago from Hyderabad, India

      One more awesome discussion on Spiritual Philosophy explaining Karma and God's Grace.

      I understand that Karma is an irrevocable act that has to reap its fruits. By God's grace and compassion, you may perform good karma from this moment onwards but can't alter the results of past actions. And, the seeds come with their own innate qualities that need to be nurtured with utmost care to get rid of some of those negative qualities so that results would be positive and good.

      Our belief in God or the Supreme Being and our Love towards Him and the entire living beings can result in good Karma and thereby toward sublime happiness.

      The Karma video by Tedx and other two videos are excellently added by you making it a wonderful presentation. Thanks, Loannis, and to Manatita, for providing those awesome answers and opinions.

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