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A Discussion With Manatita on Spiritual Philosophy - Part 3

Updated on August 17, 2019
Sean Dragon profile image

Sean is a teacher who is writing about his spiritual adventures to help other people find balance and self-respect.

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Man is by nature a lover. Only he has yet to discover the real thing to love. This quest awakens him to the fulfillment of his real Self.

— Sri Chinmoy

An Ongoing Adventure

In the second part of this spiritual adventure, my Brother, Manatita helped me, and I hope you too, to approach the idea of Karma. In this third part, we will continue with some more questions about the Karma and the tricky term of “evil”. I hope you'll enjoy it as I did.

Manatita
Manatita

Spiritual Adventure, Part 3

Ioannis: “Grace is always the last word and Karma can be nullified, either by God or the intervention of a God-realized Soul.”

Thank you, my Brother, for your Love, your tolerance and your willingness to help. Your words are what I wanted to express, but my lack of understanding could not allow me to do! That is the core of my belief.

A God-realized Soul can change the end or let it happen because this Soul, being in constant conscious contact with God, can understand what is best for us all. Something like Jesus did at the Mount of Olives, I think! As higher the level of spiritual evolution is, as fewer "clouds of misunderstanding".

I know that I have a lot of missing points in my understanding, my Brother, not only that, which is the reason why this discussion is a higher blessing to me. At the same time is the source of my next question.

Do you believe that our understanding, as we are members of this world, depends on the relative knowledge? Namely, to know the Light, do I have to face the darkness? Or there are other ways too?

Manatita: Always stay positive. Do not belittle yourself. I have weak points too. By the way, I said that the Master does not change it, according to the Will of the Supreme. Masters of the highest order do have the capacity, but they do not act contrary to the Higher Law… the Will of God. Can be confusing, I know. Christ is a good example … Ηim dying on the cross.

Sri Chinmoy has a very beautiful prayer, which I have paraphrased in my book called ‘Maxims for Our Children: A Look at the Teachings of Jesus, the Christ.’ Here he basically talks of The Avatar, (A direct descendant of God) as God’s slave. He has no will of his own and does basically whatever the Supreme wants or sees as being more beneficial for His Creation.

Sri Chinmoy Sings Avatar Songs

Yes, yes. Guruji teaches that Light must descend into darkness … that there is no other way. Other Masters say the same thing in different ways. They tell us that struggle or adversity is necessary … that the soul, even though it is in isolation from God (Rumi), comes here for necessary experience. Even that of your own wife and children, would be different from yours. Still, you are growing together as a family.

Source

Karma is tied up in all that. There is a story where the Buddha had a very compassionate disciple. Like you bro, like you. Anyway, he saw through his psychic vision that something terrible was going to happen to a village, so he told the Buddha about it. The Buddha smiled and decided to do nothing.

The disciple was upset, and so when the fatal day came, he used his occultic powers, to hide the village into a very tiny place. The story goes that the powerful plague, turned itself into a tiny piece of destruction, entered the village and all died. You see, the Buddha saw quite clearly that it had to happen and did not intervene.

Vivekananda was quite a powerful soul and yet when he saw death approaching, three times he went to an occultist to prolong his life. You see, he had much good work to do. Three times Ramakrishna, his Guru, appeared to him with a sorrowful face. The wise say that Ramakrishna, even from the other world, had the capacity to save his life, but he knew that Vivekananda’s time had come. Vivekananda finally understood the message.

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The great dacoit Angulimal, killed many people and also tried to kill the Buddha. He became the Buddha’s disciple finally (long story), but was finally stoned to death by his own village. He too, had to bear his cross and he bore it well.

Finally, Grace is the other way. Some get this, such as Arjuna in the Mahabharata, but most don’t. It seems that the soul itself wants the experience. Let me send you a million dollars every Friday and you will say: “Wow! Cool!” You can feed your wife and children. But a day will dawn … ten years, twenty years, sixty years … when you realize that all your friends and colleagues are working and you will wish to work than have the money free.

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Such is the nature of the soul. Karma is tied up with all this, and so is Grace, self-effort and reincarnation. They are all connected. There is a piece on fate and grace written by Sri Chinmoy, let me quote it for you:

“There is a world which is infinitely higher than the planets. From there we can easily create and we can also delete anything in our fate. If we delete what is there, then we can add something new. Your fate can also be adjusted by the grace of the Supreme. If a seeker is very highly developed and gets considerable grace, either from God or from a great spiritual Master, then the planets cannot influence that seeker.

Even if one is an ordinary seeker, if the Master intervenes, then the planets cannot do anything … God’s Grace can change anybody’s fate. This Grace is almighty; it changes the occult possibilities and transcends the laws of astrology, which are God’s cosmic laws.” –Sri Chinmoy

I think that this is sufficient about Karma for the time being. Still it is connected and a very significant cosmic Law. We can ask other questions and come back to this later, as there are three types of Karma. It is also a complex subject. For the time being, let me leave you with three quotes that may be useful for the aspiring seeker:

“The law of karma applies to everyone and at the same time one can transcend it by one's meditation. The law of karma exists and at the same time it can be transcended by realization, oneness with God and by the power of spirituality…” –Sri Chinmoy

The next quote is powerful … authoritative:

“In the case of an ordinary, unaspiring person, karmic dispensation is unavoidable, inevitable. The law of karma is always binding; like a snake it will coil around him. He has to pay the toll, the tax; the law of karma is merciless …” –Sri Chinmoy

Now here’s a very promising piece which is in line with what the great Yogi’s say:

“…If I shed bitter tears and cry for forgiveness, then naturally God's compassion will dawn on me. When a person enters into the spiritual life, his karma can easily be nullified if it is the Will of God operating through a spiritual Master. Slowly God's infinite grace can nullify the results of his bad karma and expedite the results of his good karma.” –Sri Chinmoy

Sri Chinmoy
Sri Chinmoy

Ioannis: Oh! This was an absolutely clarifying answer, my Brother, and the three quotes of Sri Chinmoy's wisdom were redeeming!

I think we have created a solid base to continue this discussion with some questions that often I have been asked by my young students.

The first one is about something that torments the heart of many young people when they face our world. They ask:

"How can a God of Love and Mercy allow to evil rules the world?"

Manatita: This is a very popular and also a tricky question, nearly always leading to unclear answers. Still, I’ll do my best.

First we have to see God holistically, so to speak – from the highest viewpoint. The Beloved Absolute Supreme is all Light … Love, Existence, Consciousness-Bliss (Sat, Chit …Ananda.) He is above evil. But on a lower level of Creation, man has ‘limited freedom.’

The cow is tied with a very long rope and so it sometimes strays into its neighbour's garden, to continue eating grass. Here you can say that it is misusing its choice of judgments. This all happens because of what I have spoken of here a few times. Ignorance, in the sense of limitations, bondage, imperfections and negative traits. Sri Chinmoy also speaks of undivine or hostile forces playing their part or roles.

I suppose you can say that the cow lives in the room of the mind, which is dark and frightening, whereas the Heart is all Light, like a child. Again, there is only Consciousness/Spirit/God. There is nothing outside Consciousness and so what we call evil, is part and parcel of the plan. Yoga Philosophy speaks of no evil or darkness, but a lesser Light. Sin is also an impediment or obstacle, standing in the way of Love. It is that which binds us.

Since we are learning in and through suffering and adversity, they have Light to some extent. They are pathfinders, only in a lesser form. Sri Chinmoy teaches that everything is ultimately sanctioned, approved or tolerated by the Supreme, as there is no alternative from God’s point of view.

Source

God is in everything. He is in strychnine and other poisons, but we do not consciously gravitate to them. Our desires are usually for pleasure … things that bind us … brings pain. The problem is that many do not accept God’s Justice as well as they accept His compassion, which is really Mercy in disguise.

God loves us all. He is above both good and evil, but in the process of spiritual evolution, He walks with us as we experience suffering. Ultimately, everything is an experience and the Beloved is having this experience, in and through us.

End of part 3.

To be continued… (link to part 4)

The Book

Manatita,  The Lantern Carrier: An Esoteric Journey to Spiritual Philosophy
Manatita, The Lantern Carrier: An Esoteric Journey to Spiritual Philosophy
This article is an excerpt from my book "Manatita, The Lantern Carrier". A book dedicated to all the seekers of the Light which I am sure that it will lift you up!
 

© 2018 Ioannis Arvanitis

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    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      21 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      My dear Dana, I couldn't agree more! The only thing that matters is what I understand because only this it can be part of me, of my life. Only this I can live and show it to the world. First you understand, and then you know! I am teaching science to young students for 30 years now, and this is the most significant point. You have to help someone to understand in order to learn. That is why is substantial for our world the presence of people like Sri Chinmoy, they make it easier for the rest of us.

      Thank you so much for your kind words. As I admire your work, these words are a great honor for me! I pray for your understanding!

      Admiration and Gratitude!

      Sean

    • Dana Tate profile image

      Dana Tate 

      21 months ago from LOS ANGELES

      manatita and Ioannis, I have heard so many people say they love the Creator. I have seen people go to church every Sunday and the saddest part of all that is I seen no transformation of the heart.

      What I look for in people is change. I don't care how many scriptures they quote because the truth is if the words are not transforming you, you obviously are not being enlightened by what you read. So, obviously there is no understanding of what you are reading.

      I always say it's not what you know, but what you understand that changes the heart. That is an obvious sign of who is getting it and who isn't. I thank both of you for sharing your beautiful, enlightened, understanding with me. Ioannis, I will be looking forward to reading more of your hubs. Blessings.

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      22 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Dear Dana, thank you for your beautiful comment and for your encouragement! I am glad you liked it and I am happy that it was a chance to know Sri Chinmoy.

      Admiration and respect for your work!

      Sean

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      22 months ago from london

      Thanks Dana.

      When we had Questions and Answers on Hup Pages, some of the 'righteous' were always there. Remember?

      I believe common sense prevailed here and after Interview 3, Ioannis was not troubled anymore. Love you, my sweet.

    • Dana Tate profile image

      Dana Tate 

      22 months ago from LOS ANGELES

      Very interesting interview I really enjoyed it. It took me awhile to comment because I had to read all three, plus the comments, as well as google Sri Chimnoy's teachings. As I read the comments I wasn't surprised that some were quite heated because religion and politics always causes controversy considering most are steadfast in their beliefs.

      Although I come from a Christian background as a child I have always been interested in the beliefs of others. I was curious as to what inspired the faith they had in that particular religion. I always believed in reaping what you sowed although I never put it in terms of Karma, pertaining to reaping good or bad from past lives.

      Anyway I loved the article and will read up more on Sri Chimnoy. Manita is so full of wisdom and enlightenment I was curious in the source in which he drew from.

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      23 months ago from london

      Thanks Li-jen.

      I have seen it. Ha ha. Love you, my Sis. Peace!

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Thank you, my dear Li-Jen, for your kind comment. You know, I learned to live really happy when I learned to Love my dark side. Then I was able to better it, step by step...

      Find your beauty, my dear daughter!

      Sean

    • Li-Jen Hew profile image

      Li-Jen Hew 

      23 months ago

      Good point, without Darkness like adversity and struggles, there's no Light which is Love...karma is complicated especially the story of the village. Grace is something that is something granted to any seeker and controlled by God...Thanks for sharing...and Manatita will see this comment. :)

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      My Brother, Venkatachari M, thank you for your motivating comment. I am so glad to know that I participate in something significant to others, though all the praise goes to Manatita! I am just the lucky one to ask.

      Om Shanti!

      Sean

    • Venkatachari M profile image

      Venkatachari M 

      23 months ago from Hyderabad, India

      What a mindblowing discussion! Loannis and Manatita, I have no words to express my feelings. A deep insightful discussion of spiritual philosophy is provided to us through these wonderful series. Each point so clearly discussed by you both. I appreciate both of you for the richness of your spiritual awakenings.

      I will be waiting for the next part of it eagerly. Thanks a lot.

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Ah! "The common dialect." It was the official Greek language until the fall of Konstantinoupolis in 1453. It continues to be used as the liturgical language of services in the Greek Orthodox Church until now, though. There are some changes in Modern Greek, but is the same language. With a little practice, you could read and speak in Greece today. Proud of you my friend. I'll be happy to give you any help you want. Though, the better way is to come to Greece as I told you in my message...

      Μία οικία γεμάτη Αγάπη θα υπάρχει πάντα εδώ για εσένα.

      Sean

    • cam8510 profile image

      Chris Mills 

      23 months ago from Green Bay, Wisconsin...for now

      My education was in Koine Greek. There seems to be a lot of consistency between modern and Koine.

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Ha! I think we can easily discuss in Greek, my friend, Chris! I have sent you a message on your fb page.

      Sean

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      What an excellent and wise comment, my Brother, Eric! I loved the picture of Christ clapping and giving a high five to Buddha! And yes, we have not to agree to Love each other. Thank you for your Spirit.

      Love Bless you!

      Sean

    • cam8510 profile image

      Chris Mills 

      23 months ago from Green Bay, Wisconsin...for now

      Sean, yes, He is.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      23 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Thank you guys for being here. The boy gets 15 mins. tablet games before chess. I need the break from bikes and volleyballs and golf balls and race cars and remote dinosaur fighting. All before noon??? What was I thinking being a dad!? ;-)

      Once we get to the understanding that God can do anything God wants. Then we are freed to follow the Path God gave us. I love human rules after all, a religious preacher and lawyer by trades. Some folks think that constriction is on God. "A rule of God to regulate God". That actually is quite funny.

      This is why I am so adamant about love and that God is love. A course through the rapids of life in love is love is God. If I can love my enemy and attribute that to Buddha. Christ is over there clapping and giving a high five to Buddha.

      And one of the coolest parts -- you do not have to love me. You do not even need to treat me right. I can even argue with you spitefully and still love you and act in love.

      The Path is so really bitchin cool.

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      So true, my friend, Chris, so true! You said it all in your comment! Thank you for your contribution.

      Ο Θεός είναι Αγάπη!

      Sean

    • cam8510 profile image

      Chris Mills 

      23 months ago from Green Bay, Wisconsin...for now

      Sean, "There are many paths to the same Crest!" I have to believe either this or that all paths are dead ends. Any one path, including Christianity, has crept around the globe at the pace of a snail. If one alone is the truth, then millions have been left behind with no opportunity to know. That is unacceptable to my mind. The Supreme, God, knows the heart.

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      My dear Sister, Chitrangada Sharan, thank you for your beautiful comment. All the praise to Brother Manatita. Your support is precious!

      Om Shanti!

      Sean

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Infinite Gratitude to you, my Brother, Manatita, for being the Lantern Carrier! Please put the blame on me for the quoting in the picture, just once. I know that you don't want it - I think you deserve it - and it was my will to present them.

      Hari Om!

      Sean

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      My precious Brother, Tim, thank you for being here with us. For me, all this discussion is a great lesson, and I thank my Brother Manatita for the Love and patience.

      I grew up as an Orthodox Christian, and I always listened that the other Christian dogmas were wrong! For God's sake! I Loved Jesus, and when I was lost in darkness, and I decided to end my life, He was there to remind me who I am and the Love I have to offer. He saved my life, and since then I am with Him, but I decided not to follow any Church, just Love.

      I have spent five years studying Physics and thirty-five to study Theology, all religions, ending up that Love is my Religion and Jesus is my Master! I am still seeking the Truth in me in order to become what the Supreme wants me to be. I have a long way to go, but my Heart is happy because I love EVERYTHING! That's why this discussion is a part of me!

      Thank you, Brother! Jesus loves all of us!

      Please give my wishes to your wise wife too.

      Sean

    • ChitrangadaSharan profile image

      Chitrangada Sharan 

      23 months ago from New Delhi, India

      This spiritual discussion, the questions and answers are full of wisdom. One has to read it again and again to understand it better.

      Your pictures and videos are also very thoughtfully picked.

      Again thank you both Sean and Manatita for this enlightening series.

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Thank you, my Brother, Chris! Thank you with all my Heart. Your comment means a lot to me, it is a treasure.

      Diversity is life. I love diversity because I can see God's plan in it!

      My Brother Manatita and I respect everyone's beliefs, and we don't want to prove anyone wrong. I want to believe that we don't offend anyone.

      There are many paths to the same Crest!

      Gratitude!

      Sean

    • Sean Dragon profile imageAUTHOR

      Ioannis Arvanitis 

      23 months ago from Greece, Almyros

      Ha! As exhilarating as always, my friend, Eric! "Wonder" "full"! Lol!

      Thank you for your beautiful comment! Yes, I believe too, that when we can embrace cancer or death of a loved one as well as the morning sun of beauty and smile to God, we are on a true path.

      Gratitude!

      Sean

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      23 months ago from london

      Infinite gratitude to you, my Friend Ioannis and to all those who have commented here. Shalom!

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 

      23 months ago from london

      Do not quote me so prominently, as in the pics. I keep repeating that I'm trying to serve. I do not deserve and neither do I seek this.

      Again, sometimes my words are borrowed thoughts in the larger scheme of things. I am a student of Peace. A beginner seeker.

      That apart, I think that you have presented the work excellently and have included the words of a great spiritual soul in Sri Ramana Marharshi. Om Shanti!

    • Tim Truzy info4u profile image

      Tim Truzy 

      23 months ago from U.S.A.

      I spent time with the fundamentalist, eventually finding my way to evangelical teachings in the Christian faith, all the way along reading as many texts as possible on the nature of the soul and our relationship with God. This is informative. Perhaps, the most important aspect of these lessons (if I may call it that, Sean and Manatita,) is that it gives those in different religions food to feed brothers and sisters who may not share the same perspective. What is religion if the Love of God isn't taught anyway?

      I agree 100 percent with Chris.

      Great message.

      Thank you both.

      Sincerely,

      Tim

    • cam8510 profile image

      Chris Mills 

      23 months ago from Green Bay, Wisconsin...for now

      I will say this, I listen, but I don't understand. But I refuse to respond with a knee-jerk reaction to things I don't comprehend. That is a surefire way to achieve permanent ignorance. I came out of that mindset and won't be going back. Thank you, Ioannis/Sean for your part, and thank you, manatita for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. And I can't commend either of you enough for the love and patience you have extended to those who react negatively to what you are sharing.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      23 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      I hope you guys are having a blast with this "wonder" "full" series. Yes we have the negative issues. So it is just the best to have such positive issues. (Sorry but Chimnoy is not my favorite singer ;-) But the last one Ramana has me hard to stay in chair, you just have to get happy feet. Cool.

      Hardship? A fine man wrote to the effect that If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same. Kipling I think. Can we embrace cancer or death of a loved one as well as the morning sun of beauty? When we can and smile to God we are on a true path.

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