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Godhead Terminology

Updated on January 4, 2018
Oscarlites profile image

The authors life involved ministry and living southwest and interior Alaska. Writing allowed spiritual, poetic and political expression:

author unusually in a suit.
author unusually in a suit.
Navy Pier Display of Stained Glass in Chicago Il.
Navy Pier Display of Stained Glass in Chicago Il. | Source
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The Roman Cross | Source
More to Life Church in Belvidere
More to Life Church in Belvidere
The Cross
The Cross

Throughout its history Christianity has divided itself more than once over doctrinal issues while early age governments dared to modify and control the definition of the Godhead. But the Bible is plain enough; Colossians 2:9 (KJV) "For in him, (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." This is a Bible verse. However, mankind sought to complicate the godhead with a 225 A.D. doctrine of "Trinity." Before we go into it, lets read another descriptive verse that clearly states "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation". 2 Corinthians 5:19. Ref.

First, we must acknowledge that the doctrine of trinity was an invention of a man named Tertullian, its contents adopted at the convergence of the Roman (Pagan) church into the early new testament "Christian" church which was founded solely by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. The ex-temporary position or "use" of the trinitarian creed was to help consolidate a nation with many "gods" into a young but aggressive church that supposedly believed in the One True God and in the Saving Role of "Son-ship" (Jesus Christ) and in the Holy Spirit of God. But first we must note the action of the ancient Roman Church, making itself the head or governing body of the Christian faith by public/political declaration of the emperor. It stated "We ARE NOW CHRISTIAN!" This pretty much left the real and original Apostolic believers of Jesus out of the picture. So in the management of, and grafting of itself into the " Jesus Church", Roman councils now had to do a "makeover" of the doctrine. THEY are culpable and perhaps guilty of adding to the Holy Scripture; for they claimed at this point God is a Trinity, and that you must believe the Trinity in order to be saved. First the basic inventor of trinity, Tertullian, and then the church council declaring it "law": Additionally, through history you will find the adoption of this doctrine through church councils, through rulers of civilization adopting trinity doctrine by sovereign national decree, etc. On and on until it just simply became "tradition!" History shows that the church of England, France, Italy, and many other autocratic nations made trinity their national doctrine. It has dominated the State churches and is interestingly a critical doctrine to the Roman Catholic church to this day. In fact they claim any and all religions or denominations that adhere to the Trinity are their "daughters". Though all of this is true of history, we still have to ask, Was Jesus Christ or God Almighty the author of this? Why was it not taught or mentioned by God in his holy word? Why was it not taught by Jesus Christ himself?

At this point in my life, I cannot find substance or proof in the Bible to validate using the term trinity, for these reasons:

1) It is not a term used in the bible.
2) There is no reference in the Word of God asking us to re-explain his deity and existence.
3) There is no prophecy or reference to the Holy spirit being a human.
4) There IS specific reference to God being a spirit and not having flesh and bones. Only in the son-ship is there a bodily form specified, and that as a heavenly authored, virgin birth conception.
5) In the birth of Jesus we KNOW there was a baby that grew up into a man, which defies reference to an eternal flesh and blood person. He would have had to be already grown up in heaven and then reborn into the flesh as a baby. Luke said (Jesus) was the ONLY begotten son of the father, so how could that be? An eternal son is now begotten?
6) I feel safer NOT using Tertullian based trinity terms or any other human concept or doctrine for the simple reason they are man-made, and not authenticated by the scripture.
7) Isaiah (old testament prophet) amply allows for the Christ child, and the Savior to come, without altering or changing the eternal oneness of God. All of Isaiah is filled with Gods One-ship. We might be bringing a curse by trying to make that oneness into three distinct persons with distinct humanness, with separate minds, with separate goals, etc.
8) The purpose of God was fulfilled in a father-son-holy spirit manifestation. It was his method to reach mankind and to re-unite mankind to himself. It was not to separate, or to present separate co-equal god-ships, as that would have violated who he was.

conclusion: I can believe in the God of the Bible without using a man made concept of trinity. I understand for many that this is a stumbling-block, as they have been mainstreamed into orthodoxy, Catholic, Trinity, and other religious tradition.

Many world-wide believers have remained true to the Bible and its teachings. If you do so, however, you won't be using the word trinity, or terms like "co-equal persons" because they aren't in Gods book of life. God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. There's nothing hard or complicated about that. When it says great is the mystery of Godliness, God was manifest in the flesh, he didn't say "in three flesh's" , but only one flesh.. How he otherwise manifested himself in history is best left as it is.

Several times we are told, "but ye brethren may understand the mystery, and are not in darkness, etc.:" Rightly dividing the word of truth and loving the truth is important. We must not add any man made doctrines, of which there are many. Trinity doctrine was created and written and approved by supposed converted Roman scholars who were engaged in taking over the fledgling but already established early church and this doctrine was consequently incorporated with and has dominated many organizations without authenticity, except by church propagation of councils, and orders and as a separate doctrine than of the true bible. HOW can it be believed or taught as truth, if it has (supposedly) been added to the faith as a valid teaching, yet authored not by God, but by man? Why would anyone WANT to add to the word of God, with the threat of Biblical curses on those who do?

IF God DOES have a specific form or shape, it obviously is not a human body, as he is God, and he specifically says he does not have flesh and bones. To even think so is silly. To think that of the spirit also is just as silly. Perhaps it is just as humans with human minds we think we have to give God a body that we can identify. Well, could it just be, that he did give us one we could identify and trust in and hope for? The person of Jesus in Salvation. WE will know the rest of it as soon as we have our own glorified bodies and are over there in the supernatural realm, right? according to Isaiah 9:6, Jesus IS the mighty God come in the flesh.

T.D.Jakes seems to have the best explanation of the Godhead when he says, "God disguised himself in human flesh when he came down here to die on the cross for our sins". He repeats many times when he teaches on the Godhead that God himself was merely in disguise as a human. So if you are still uncertain, look at it like this. God went to great lengths to tell us and show us he wasn't a person like we are. That he was was instead a living spirit. But when he needed to get down here where we are and let us experience his love and compassion and to become the lamb sacrifice for our sins, he made himself into the likeness of a man ( in Christ Jesus). Likewise the Holy Spirit never was a man either. It wasn't a separate person from God. It was and always will be simply the Power of God. How could anyone ever contrive to make it another separate person besides from God, since God was and is a living spirit, not a flesh and blood person except in Christ Jesus as the Lamb? I submit that God is God. He is Jehovah Elohim Saboath = The Lord God, the Redeemer, the Creator! Jehovah means by itself, " I am that I am". - There is only one God, and one Lord Jesus Christ and only one Holy Spirit: So, simply, One God who was the Lord Jesus Christ in Salvation, and the Holy Spirit of God and of Jesus Christ. Almighty God Ra-ah. The Lord is my shepherd! A salvation drama like no other, the one and only Jehovah-Jehoshua- Christos! To make another point, there are 22 Jehovah titles for God.. You're gonna get confused if you try to make 22 into a trinity. Just believe I Am that I Am! Amen.

Addendum to Hub

Well, I closed the discussion, but have an update, and want to thank those who commented. I was informed by one of the commentators, that he supported wholeheartedly the view that you cannot be saved without using or accepting the trinity. I want to comment on this thought. It may or may not convince you, but it is what it is; and anyone is free to start their own hub with further information.

1) Most denominations believe and teach that the Bible is whole in itself and that an individual may be saved by the teachings of the Bible. So for thought, do you believe that? If you do, then why are we discussing a need for another book, or doctrine outside of the bible?

2) Knowing that the Early Church was taken over, or hijacked by the Roman church/state government while some of the apostles were still alive, is scary. The issues were that the Roman church and state were hunting down and putting to death the original followers of Jesus. Also that they were driven out into catacombs and into the hills and feared for their lives is apprehensible. -But in a stroke of genius and the stroke of a pen, the Roman Emperor consolidated itself into the Christian fellowship, and simultaneously appointed itself the head of the newly formed Christian Church.. Well, you might say great!! What a Blessing! but the truth is that the real Christians were now in a predicament, part of which they knew this was the ultimate terror to the church, as the Romans wanted to control the church and its activities and doctrines. Still yet another event, the invention of the Trinity, primarily written by a man named Tertullian. Constantine and the Roman Church Council agreed that this doctrine was a perfect way to consolidate the Romans with the newly merged entities. The way the trinity made three co-equal Persons of the Godhead was perfect to appease the Multi-God believing Romans, and made another tool of great influence available for cementing its position of rule over the Church.

3)Where were the original Apostles and disciples during this time? They were certainly not in the middle of the state church. they were pushed aside and remained hunted and chased and told they must die if they could not embrace the new leadership and especially the newfound doctrine of trinity.

4)Through the ages the state church which became the Roman Catholic Church held the control of the masses through the proclamation of the trinity and through doctrines like sainthood. They along with other developed religions who also subscribed to the trinity would quickly brand anyone who did not accept this teaching as "heretic". In many cases they would be stoned or put to death by other means, including torture which was meant to make the person "recant". I assert with much knowledge available of history, that this was implemented by use of force, with severe political and physical repercussions. This use of trinity doctrine slowly but surely bled into almost all mainstream denominations, Eastern and Western orthodoxy included. Lutheran and Wesleyan and Baptist followed.

5)The way this doctrine was invented, implemented and enforced was political based. It had a purpose of detracting from the cause of the original believers and followers of Christ. I do not want to be a part of this. Not even after many say "Oh, it is a wonderful way to view the Godhead". My answer remains that If God had wanted to be known this way he would have simply said "In the beginning the trinity this or the trinity that". If you want proof that it is political and a tool for the councils of man made churches, just begin to disagree and they will quickly bar you from their doors. This man-made conveyance turned into something they say is equal to the bible. In their view, don't grab your bible without grabbing your trinity manual. Suddenly the bible itself is not enough. Where did we go astray?

6) I ask those who assert the bible cannot be used without the trinity terminology, by whose orders? We each have to make up our minds to what we will believe. I believe God robed himself in flesh. that he came here to save us. He came as Jesus Christ. He was the son of God in the flesh. He was Almighty God in the Spirit. He was and is the Holy Spirit living in the hearts and lives of believers. Let this same mind be in you, that was in Christ. We are his at his appearing if we have washed our robes in the blood of the lamb. Churches cannot build empires and control God or rule His kingdom, but they try to . They would tell God, "oh wonderful trinity", -but God never used that word! And he never said he wanted someone to invent that way of belief!

7) I wonder how then the church can get away with labeling people, and putting them to death? Is that a character trait of the Christian faith? Isn't that more like the Muslims? Many times the Word of God proclaims " there is no other God besides me." Jesus said "when you have seen me, you have seen the Father". In the fullness of times, God came down from heaven in the form of a man. Isaiah 9:6 declares HE was the mighty God, the everlasting father and the prince of peace. -How he did that, Only he had the knowledge of what to do. I don't need mans terminology. I want Gods own terminology and it's found in the book of life.

8) Its not like God didn't have a full vocabulary to work with when he spoke, and when he directed the books of the bible written by prophets, disciples and inspired men and women. Its important that we not use terminology he did not use or approve. terms like "co-equal, trinity, second person of the godhead, etc., were not necessary in the original text. Its also important to know that salvation, doctrine and grace can be taught without using the terms that are trade-mark to the trinity doctrine.

9)The entire Bible is complete in itself, but that's NOT what trinity traditionalists would have you believe. They portray the trinity concept as authentic because it was "foundational". Foundational to what? It was written by the same church that was trying to eradicate the Christian faith before and after the takeover plot by Emperor Constantine and the religious scribes of that day. Further, the actions they took were specifically designed to arrest this upstart faith based on the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, the very one who astounded the elders in the synagogues of Israel even before he was a teenager. It was designed to put a bridle on this new "religion" of Christianity. It was even a threat to Judaism, so there was much support to wrap this brilliant doctrine of trinity around the true gospel in order for the Roman synagogues to squelch its voice and to tame it. It became the corral that circled around the original Jesus disciples and to brand this movement for the Roman Church and to make it powerless without one first seeking the approval of Rome-dom.

10) Only left to say is those who are indoctrinated in the trinity are compelled to argue its "autonomous" existence and claim it has higher power than the word of God itself. If Christians today really understood these things they would question any participation with it. We who hold the bible as the highest and fully complete authority of our faith do not have these concerns to worry about. If we stay in the bible we are always going to be ok! Right? There is NOTHING about the bible or its doctrines that we deny. There is NOTHING about the Godhead or Deity that we cannot grasp through the Bible and the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us. David was a man after Gods own heart. He was deeply insightful to the nature of God and I am sure he would have used any terminology that was pleasing to the Lord. Peter or Paul would have told us if there was a reason to make a new doctrine, but instead they said "there is NO new doctrine than what we have taught you!". What more do I need to say about that?

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    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      glynch,. are you seeking to be condescending? Why do you want to point out someones mistakes? does it make you look or feel better? thanks for pointing them out, especially after I already expressed that my comment timed out before I could get them corrected.

      To come back on track now, no one denies Gods nature, his actions, his attributes, and his diety. no one denies the existence of the Father and the Son and the Holy spirit. IN direct answer one last time, I will state, that NO the Holy spirit is Not a HUMAN person, whatever else he is described by the word of God; but not by 1,2,3, persons of a catholic doctrinal trinity position. ( as stated elsewhere here.) God and the Holy Spirit are the same divine being. Jesus said the Holy Spirit cannot come, or be sent until he went away, and that this spirit, or the "comforter" will come live inside you. HE would be sent in or with the Name of Jesus. whether you want to enunciate, God is in you by the Holy Spirit, or Christ is in you by the Holy Spirit, you would be correct. It is Gods personal if you want to say it manifestation of power inside us imperfect humans, for what reason? To make us perfect in Christ. ( 1 Cor. 11, and 12.)

      If indeed the Holy Spirit CAME FORTH from the Father, it is THEN INDEED the SPIRIT of GOD. Yes God does many kinds of works BY his Holy Spirit. for that I'm Glad. Psalms 19 says the statutes of the Lord are perfect. Rejoicing the heart. Making wise the simple. Go read it.. anyone!

      Shame on you if you are attempting to be condescending. All I have asked is that we stay in the bible. whats wrong with that? All I have asked you is WHY do you need to add an extra text, and add the trinity and its terminology?

      Please don't judge Einron of making assertions without going over to read and ponder what he has written, and see what evidence he presents. Yes, you are correct what you said to Suzanne and I'm sure she appreciates. We are all adding to each other and to the works of the Body of Christ, and studying to come into the full knowledge of Christ.

      I may not add any more to this hub, since it has ample remarks to each side of the Godhead terminology. May God richly Bless and keep you all.

    • glynch1 profile image

      glynch1 3 years ago

      When I advised you to spell check your work, I was not referring to adding "trinity and its terminology." You have many spelling errors in your writing.

      Suzanne, "being spiritual" will do you no good when you stand before God. You must trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

      Einron, please read my comments to Oscarlites regarding evidences for the personality of the Spirit. You cannot just make assertions without supporting them with Scriptural evidence that the Spirit is not personal.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      Thanks for the comments. I Do believe in the Bible, and its terms. I am not the one however trying to describe God through another man-made teaching. not through tradition. Many points you make are good. but I'm sorry, I cant spell check enough to add the doctrine of the trinity and its terminology which is outside the bible. Use the scripture to interprete scripture. Stay with Gods Holy word. thanks Einron, and Suzanne! I'm sure Glynch understands I'm not denying anything written in Gods word.

    • Suzanne Day profile image

      Suzanne Day 3 years ago from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

      It's a good point you raise. I don't know much about Trinity being manmade or not and God doesn't play a personal part in my spiritual life, but that doesn't mean we can't be nice to our neighbours or appreciate the wonders of life. Being spiritual does not have to mean being religious and both are well known for assisting people when they need help. Cheers x

    • einron profile image

      einron 3 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA

      I agree that God is ONE and the word Trinity is not in the Bible. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God or the Power of God and never described as a Person. God is described as the Word (John 1:1) and in verse 14, the "Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

      God was made flesh (Jesus) and dwelt on earth. There is only one God and not two different persons. God was never a person and neither is the Holy Spirit.

      Trinity is described as three persons in one which is false. God is never described as a person and neither is the Holy Spirit as a second person.

      I have written GOD'S MANIFESTATIONS: THE HOLY SPIRIT AND JESUS CHRIST some time ago and had 126 comments and 27,817 hits.

      There may be some trouble accessing the hub because HubPages is updating some of my hubs.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      You left me when you took a wide curve/ with the term "triune God". That is oppositional to both Duet 6 and to Any reading of Isaiah. The term is not biblical. Not in My bible. I understand you to be offended that I don't support those terms when speaking of God. I can't find them in the word, so why use them? Why not stay with the book ? Its safer. Its not possible to improve it. Its ok to believe it and use it.

    • glynch1 profile image

      glynch1 3 years ago

      I do not claim to understand everything about how the Trinity "works"; I only say that the Scriptures clearly teach this doctrine, and I must hold to it. If one does not believe in the deity of Christ, then one cannot be saved.

    • glynch1 profile image

      glynch1 3 years ago

      You cite the terms "Let us," and then completely ignore what the word "Us" means. "Us" is a plural noun; the word Elohim (God) is a plural noun. Elohim is conversing with Himself; this harmonizes perfectly with John 1:1 which states that the Word was God, and He was fellowshipping with God before He created the universe. The Word is personally distinct from the Father; Jesus is not the Father. You refuse to acknowledge the fact that Scripture teaches that the Father is God, the Word is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.

      I did not miss any of your points; I told you that I could only respond to a few of them because you wrote so much in your last post. You ought to read my statements more carefully.

      Hebrews 1:3 says that God's Son is "the express image of His person." That means that He is the exact imprint or representation of God's essential nature; He is the replica of the Father.

      I do not consider myself to be wrong because I express God as triune, because that is what He is. He is One Being who subsists as three distinct Persons. That is what the whole of Scripture clearly teaches. Those who have the Spirit know this to be the truth.

      If the Holy Spirit is God (and Scripture undeniably proves that He is), then He possesses the same personal attributes as do the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is not an "it"; Jesus refers to Him as "He" in every place He mentions Him. He can be blasphemed; He can be resisted; He can be grieved. If you blaspheme the Spirit, you are guilty of an eternal, unpardonable sin. As the third Person in the Triune God, He administers the will of God as expressed by the Word of God; He does not operate as the will of God.

      BTW: You really ought to use a spellchecker, and try some grammar software also.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      quote you:{The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Godhead; He is not a part of God, for God has no parts. Since the Spirit is God, He has the same mind as the Father and the Son: the other two Persons in the Trinity. However, He is not the Father, nor is He the Son. He is another Person of the same kind as the Son (John 14:16), even as you see the Father when you see Christ (John 14:9).} PLEASE help me someone!

      So far as your comment about "rambling", try reading the doctrine of the trinity. it literally goes around in circles trying to prove there isn't an end to the circle. It tries to prove God in terms not recognized in Holy Scripture. Trinity, for one. I have news for all.. God simply does not need proving. God does not need to be redefined. If he wanted us to see "persons", he might have said I am three persons. But instead, he said things like, " I am one, and my name one". "I am the Lord and there is none else." the point of my hub was that a government, under Emperor Constantine allowed this concept of trinity to be endorsed by a church/state that was interested in redefining the entire substance and content of the Early Christian church, in order to control it. Does that make it authentic? Does that make it a part of necessary bible theology? I am saying not. You can believe what you like. I'm sticking with the Word, and with the way it is written therein. For relief of what you think is "rambling" on my side, and to keep you out of rabbit holes, let me conclude that I don't have to bother taking out the trinity terminology, because it is not there. The term "three persons of God" is not there, "god in three persons" is not used either. do you get my point? Yes I will accept the terms and language you use in making your point but not where you want to take that point. You want to take it over into the book of trinity, and then bring me back into the word of God with that book of trinity to explain what God has already clearly written. The Spirit IS Gods spirit, not the spirit of another. I pray and hope you see that. also, Jesus is the living bread that came down from heaven. even though we know that doesn't make him a loaf of bread, it is a type of the Word, and Jesus is real. He is the real lamb of God, and He is so much more. He is the high priest that makes intercession for us. He is almighty and there is only one almighty God. we are not arguing that there is a God, or a Lord Jesus Christ. or a Holy Spirit. I don't see Paul or Peter or any other of the apostles needing a trinity of what that is. So I don't either. I'm sorry, but I've made up my mind. Its convenient for you to say I'm rambling, but actually I'm done. You can ramble all through the book, and not find a rabbit hole with a trinity in it. You have to ramble over into another book even to find the word trinity. " Being lost in the woods" is too tame an expression to explain that predicament. Again though, it has permeated our religious halls for a long while and many are seemingly dependent on it. It is supposedly some high sacred doctrine without which we would be lost: hmm.. I thought faith in the word of God and the Blood of Jesus is what saves us, (not belief in a trinity). I think many see this and somehow know already what I'm saying, but don't like to upset the apple cart. ( there's another euphenysm for you to ridicule if you need one, But I AM NOT here to squeeze anyones comfort zone. Only stating my views with some right and privilege the same as you have. thanks.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      Glynch, thank you. 1)Let me say that Reference to the phrase " let us", do it not say that God counciled with himself, after his own will? 2). Basically you are so entrenched in trinity terms and phrases, you are dependent in them to explain God, by extra-biblical terminology. 3) you missed some of my points as well. For instance, what will you do with when Jesus spoke to the apostles.. "Have you been so long with me, and yet you still ask, "show us the father?" When you have seen me , you HAVE seen the father. ( in human flesh.). LaSt point 4) you have spoken and used Trinity words and language to define your beliefs. I do not. I do not have to, 4.a). You have set forth with your words that trinity WANTS to make three separate persons out of God. The bible distinctly states plainly there is a divine God being and there is a begotten son (in flesh). 4)I can take you all over the scipture And show you the holy spirit does not have a will of it's own, but rather only operates as the will of God. In fact to close this quite thoroughly at least in my mind, the scipture makes a good arguement about the wisdom of God having its own attributes. But it is no more a separate diety, or Peron than the holy spirit is.

    • glynch1 profile image

      glynch1 3 years ago

      I could only address a few of your concerns. If we are to continue our conversation, you will need to write more clearly and concisely. Besides throwing everything into this post "except for the kitchen sink," you also tended to ramble and wander in your writing. Try to address one point at a time, and keep on the subject. You should not "traipse" down rabbit trails, because you soon lose yourself in the woods.

      What does "representing creation as a father-son relationship" mean?

      God revealed Himself in the Bible as one Being existing in three personal subsistences; we come to understand more accurately Who He is by studying the entirety of Scripture and crystallizing the truth we find in a way that will benefit humanity. Putting all of the Bible's teaching into statements that we can understand is called theology: a very worthy endeavor that human beings undertake so that they can become more acquainted with God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, sin, salvation, etc.

      I never said the Father 'created another being beside himself" when He "sent out his own spirit to be the 'comforter'. The Holy Spirit is not a force or a created being. I do not know where you acquired that understanding.

      What does Jude 25 have to do with the Spirit "being in Christ"?

      You wrote: ". . . the Holy spirit I suppose you could call another part of that same being. but NOT another mind. NOT another person. Simply a part of the same being."

      The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Godhead; He is not a part of God, for God has no parts. Since the Spirit is God, He has the same mind as the Father and the Son: the other two Persons in the Trinity. However, He is not the Father, nor is He the Son. He is another Person of the same kind as the Son (John 14:16), even as you see the Father when you see Christ (John 14:9).

      You seem to be laboring under the impression that a personal being is automatically a human being. Are not angels personal beings? Do they not have self-consciousness and self-determination?

      The Greek word "kai" does not always mean "even"; only if the context calls for that translation in order to clarify an interpretation may one suggest "even" as a possibility.

      Genesis gives us several hints that God exists in a plurality of Persons. God (the Father) spoke (the Word), and the Spirit hovered over the waters (1:1-2). God said, "Let Us make man in Our image" (1:26). John 1:1 says that the Word (the Son, Christ) was "with" God. This verse not only shows that the Word was God, but that He was also "with" God, relating to Him in the beginning.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      Glynch, I tried to proofread and it timed out before I could correct some spelling and punctuation. thanks for your comments!

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      Israel in the Old testament was not happy with just God there as he was. correct? they wanted a person they could see.. they wanted a Human King, and God eventually gave in to this desire of mankind. correct? at that time he appointed Saul first and then David as their king. Actually they seemed to be happier with that, than with the Real King of Glory, Jesus. correct? But the fact was, priests and earthly kings could not do what Jesus could do, once and for all being substantiated as a perfect lamb sacrifice for our guilty nature, in fact for all men who come to him, whosoever will. Point is, God was a "being" by his own definition. he was and is the "I am". He created a wonderful drama of Salvation through representing creation as a father and son relationship and giving us that son for atonement. Nonetheless, inasmuch as he sent out his own spirit to be the "comforter" he wasn't creating another being beside himself. IN fact he claims he was in Christ himself. Jude 25 exclaims, Now, unto the only wise God our savior, be grace and truth now and ever , amen. Sure you can say trinity describes much of who God is or was or whatever, but WHY do you want or need that? Why redefine things GOd already set down as HIS WORD, with mans words? -as I stated in my hub. GOd is a being, the Holy spirit I suppose you could call another part of that same being. but NOT another mind. NOT another person. Simply a part of the same being.. In fact., the greeek word Kai, which is the word for "and" also means "even". WHy did the apostles and disciples only baptize in the Name of Jesus ? Acts 2, 10, 19, and other places. they knew the NAme Acts 4:12 was the name God chose to contain all authority in salvation, Correct? another simple but profound point of reason is that just because God spoke in an audible voice, it didn't suggest to Adam in the beginning that God was a person, a human as he was. Yes God can speak and use any form or manifestation he chooses, but he was pretty clear about his own identity. Isaiah bears testimony that he was the Only God, the only Savior, the only God of Israel. So why do you WANT to expand him into a trinity of persons, which terminology, or idea, or commission to write such a doctrine is not in the book of books. It is merely a man made script, and empowered by religious councils. That is the point of this hub. Please you clarify WHY God would even want a different introduction or Godhead than what he gave himself? He does really rather fine with it, in saying his arm is stretched out across the heavens, Earth is his footstool, and his voice speaks in the thunder. Quite a fantastic being!! Yes, I agree, he does possess all choice, all power, all individuality etc, HE is God and there is no other God. NO other Savior. NO other deity. HE is all in all. and his word says we are complete in Him who is the head of all principality and power. HE is God. He is Jesus, HE is the Holy Ghost. What value or how can you increase this by saying he is coequal with himself? or coeternal with himself? Man can mess up a lot of things, but please don't mess with the word of God. The word of God doesn't have to explain mans words or terms, it only has to explain GOD and his words and terms. don't you think he did a great job of explaining the redemption of man? Sure I know many have tried to describe it their own way, but It won't save you unless you read it and believe it just like it says. Preach it using Bible, not tradition, not Tertullian, not anyone but Jesus Christ and him Crucified, ( words of Paul and he was ordained of God, not of man.)

      There really is nothing to differ about as long as we stay in the book. I won't ask where the bible uses the term co- equal, or or co-eternal because you've already clarified those terms are not there. Yes, I know that much of the Christian world has been indoctrinated in such terms and language and teachings through councils, church dogmas, creeds and such, but does that make it part of the bible? if so, then why not the book of Mormon, and other writings proposed by other churches and councils? God said, no, no, don't; add to this book. the plagues of this book will come on you.. Catholicism has dolled up this tradition and protected it and made it seem like it is something holy, but is it? It was written as a theory and as an effort to incorporate the young Christian Church into the Roman Pagan empire, and to control it, as well as to appease the romans who believed in many Gods.. well, lets turn this Christian faith and its Godhead into a plurality. GOD said I am one and my name one. Jesus said, when you have seen me, you have seen the father. HE said when the Holy Ghost(comforter is sent) he will send it in My name. if they are separate personalities, then some serious questions arise, such as why was Jesus conceived by the Holy Ghost, if he was the Son only of God the father? have you ever considered this? I am very serious. The Holy Ghost, at large or in any portion at all, was meant as a arm of God. Jesus was a type of arm of God extended to mankind. Arm or right hand represents power. IN the fullness of times God manifested himself in the form of flesh.( Jesus). Was there really an older person in the form of a person? in a flesh form? Never according to the word of God, but Trinity and Gnostics etc, suggest there was.. but again as I said before, that would require some doing that just isn't in the scripture. Our Human nature perhaps WANTS and maybe even expects there to be such.. But God implicitly speaks through his word. HE is a spirit and a spirit hath not flesh and blood. Only the Lamb of God, Jesus in the Flesh was a real person in flesh. You can make other arguments that God appeared in visible forms, but those were his using his own ingenuity to present a great and wonderful God who is unmeasurable in size, to a human man or woman. And you can also argue that Jesus walked through walls and doors after he was risen. did he already have his spiritual supernatural body? the bible says when he returns and catches away the church, we shall be like he is. we too shall have a glorified body.. So yes I guess if you want to present that Jesus has a spiritual body, denoting a person, then do so, I don't mind. Bible seems to explain it so much better than manmade doctrines and writings. I believe he is so much more than a person. He is a mighty Being, a King of Kings. and Lord of Lords. but in I corintians he also sates that one day when all is fulfilled he shall yield back all power and authority, that God might be all in all. that's beyond my mindscape! Jesus is the eternal God, but the sonship has a beginning and an apparent ending. Yet he lives forever. yes the Sonship began in the human realm when he was begotten of a virgin. but he already existed inside of God, Gods heart, Gods mind and Gods Plan, in that way the bible said by Him Jesus was all things created, by him and for him.. have you noticed by now I like to stick with Biblical terminology? I hope I have presented these thoughts in a thoughtful and honest way.

    • glynch1 profile image

      glynch1 3 years ago

      A person has the power of self-consciousness and self-determination. God has personal characteristics and attributes, and carries on personal relationships with human beings. God is not an impersonal force.

      I do not understand what you mean by "I don't see any human form other than Jesus" and "You can only find the Godhead in His own terms." Please clarify if you can.

      The word "trinity" is not found in Scripture, but that does not mean that the doctrine of God's tri-personality is untrue. The Scriptures clearly teach that God is One, but subsists in three co-equal and co-eternal Persons: the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. We can conclude this truth by a careful study of the Bible.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      Your points are well taken , 1) yes Jesus was in Marys womb. 2) titles or positions of father son and holy spirit do not make "persons" . what is a person? I don't think you can make God into a person he doesn't want to be, for he is God. He made himself into the person of Jesus Christ. Yes took on the form of a man. But I don't see any human form other than Jesus , do you? Yes Jesus is glorified now, and perhaps remains in a glorified or spiritual body. As also we shall one day be changed into a spiritual form. But still u can't find words that speak trinity. You can only find the Godhead in His own terms. You seem to understand thier is only one supreme God and this is correct. One God and one Lord Jesus Christ, defined by scripture as the son of God in the flesh. That's how God revealed himself to us.

    • glynch1 profile image

      glynch1 3 years ago

      Where do you get the idea that orthodox doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit is human? "There is no prophecy or reference to the Holy spirit being a human" for one reason: He is not human. Only the Son became a human being; He is the God-man. He became a man so that He could die in the place of sinners.

      Jesus was not conceived in heaven; He was conceived in Mary's womb.

      Scripture plainly teaches that God is one Being, but also clearly shows that He subsists in three equal Persons. The NT presents several places where the three Persons are linked together (For example, Matt. 28:19--in the name (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit).

      "God manifest in the flesh" refers only to the Son's incarnation, not to any incarnation of the Father or the Spirit.

      Yes. Jesus is God incarnate. However, while on the Earth, He spoke to God the Father in heaven. He also spoke of the coming of God the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost; the Spirit is another Helper of the same kind as the Son. He is the only true Vicar of Christ.

    • Oscarlites profile image

      Oscar Jones 3 years ago from South Alabama

      thanks, I guess we all have to stand somewhere, and if we think not, then still stand we do. It amazes how many never have questioned.

    • FlourishAnyway profile image

      FlourishAnyway 3 years ago from USA

      You have obviously considered the question far more reply than have I. I enjoyed reading your reflections.


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