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The end is nigh?

Updated on February 9, 2012

I have noticed a disturbing tendency during these last few months: the advent of survivalist Christian sites, businesses and communities springing up, mainly in America, which is not surprising, especially if you watch the video at the end of this article.

I really suggest that you set some time to watch it, the 'author' is apparently a leading financial pundit in the USA, with a solid track record for outlining the financial future.

Perhaps the most relevant issue was when I became aware that one survivalist food provisioner, was also the main drive behind a major biblical prophesy site.

Now THAT was indeed scary.... I mean those guys are considered to be prophetic beacons, so you would imagine that they know what is going to happen. 

They are not prophesying that we are in the last days, but actually in private discussions confirmed that they do concur with whats in the video.

Which is possibly even more relevant!

End time biblical scholarship (Eschatology ) will always fall into one of three categories:

  • PreTrib Rapture doctrine
  • PreWrath Rapture doctrine
  • PostTrib Rapture doctrine

Make that four categories, to include everyone who is not in faiths opinion:

  • No Rapture happens

As I write mainly for believers, I will skip the fourth one for now, but may cover it later if it seems relevant, which of course is only is we decide to include it as a possibility!

The Rapture is perhaps one of the most controversial aspects of Christianity as we know it, and if you start looking at what Churchianity has done with the doctrines, it becomes even more confusing.

Now if you hold to a PreTrib Rapture, then obviously stocking up for the bad days when the enemy is holding everyone hostage, would at best be a sign of hedging your bets, at worse an indicator that you did not truly believe in a PreTrib Rapture.

The validity of a PreTrib Rapture is mainly based upon one particular scripture:

Luke 21:35-37 (Amplified Bible)

For it will come upon all who live upon the face of the entire earth.

Keep awake then and watch at all times [be discreet, attentive, and ready], praying that you may have the full strength and ability and be accounted worthy to escape all these things[taken together] that will take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.

The key sentence is the bold one; escape all these things and literalistic believers will stand on the dictionary to state that ALL means.... ALL!

Therefore the Rapture MUST be PreTribulation, for otherwise believers will faceSOME of the Tribulation, and hence we will have some troubles to share with the rest of the world, before Christ returns to pull believers out of the mess.

So if you store your nuts and berrys for the antichrist winter, I would say that you fitted more aptly into the next category....

PreWrath Rapture

Which assumes that believers will be persecuted and killed by the Antichrists forces, but that those believers who stay faithful until the end (that is don't kop out and take the MARK, whatever that turns out to be) will be Raptured before God pours out His WRATH upon fallen mankind....

it's a cheery prospect and one that makes most armchair Christians put their hope in a PreTrib position, but nevertheless, if you go this way, then yes a squirrel store of non perishable provisions will be a boost for your confidence, assuming that you live well enough of the grid to escape notice.

Most PreWrath folk expect to be raptured at the mid point in the seven year tribulation period, so plan for approximately a three year siege when you will be unable to buy sell or trade.

PostTrib Rapture

For me this is a non starter, for it looks like the ONLY believers alive at the end of the tribulation will be the two prophets sent by God, and even they will have been killed and dismembered before they return to smite those responsible. So I personally can't be bothered to go here... (which tells you I have already voted!).

1 Corinthians 3 (Amplified Bible) verses 9-21

For we are fellow workmen (joint promoters, laborers together) with and for God; you are God's garden and vineyard and field under cultivation, [you are] God's building.

According to the grace (the special endowment for my task) of God bestowed on me, like a skillful architect and master builder I laid [the] foundation, and now another [man] is building upon it. But let each [man] be careful how he builds upon it,

For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid, which is Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

But if anyone builds upon the Foundation, whether it be with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

The work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known (shown for what it is); for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done.

If the work which any person has built on this Foundation [any product of his efforts whatever] survives [this test], he will get his reward.

But if any person's work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.

Do you not discern and understand that you [the whole church at Corinth] are God's temple (His sanctuary), and that God's Spirit has His permanent dwelling in you [to be at home in you, collectively as a church and also individually]?

If anyone does hurt to God's temple or corrupts it [with false doctrines] or destroys it, God will do hurt to him and bring him to the corruption of death and destroy him. For the temple of God is holy (sacred to Him) and that [temple] you the believing church and its individual believers] are.

Let no person deceive himself. If anyone among you supposes that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool [let him discard his worldly discernment and recognize himself as dull, stupid, and foolish, without true learning and scholarship], that he may become [really] wise.

For this world's wisdom is foolishness (absurdity and stupidity) with God, for it is written, He lays hold of the wise in their [own] craftiness; And again, The Lord knows the thoughts and reasonings of the [humanly] wise and recognizes how futile they are.

21So let no one exult proudly concerning men [boasting of having this or that man as a leader], for all things are yours,

Is there any point in storing food stuffs?

As a believer I reached the conclusion years ago that Christ will ensure that we are protected from the enemy provided that we have not given the enemy authority to harm us, and this has proven to be correct, many times.

Why should that change during the end days?

It's a bit like pension plans, I meet believers who studiously save for their retirement, when I cannot see that we retire from Christs service, nor reach a point where God tells us, "OK I've provided your every need for 65 years now, so from here on you are on your own".....

I'm not saying folk should ignore the fact that at some point they may be unable to support themselves, and we are always to try and be good stewards of the resources God provides to us, but we are in trouble if we have placed our trust in some pension plan, indeed, we are in trouble if we have placed our trust in anything other then Christ.

All of my problems with God have always stemmed from MY efforts to support or govern my life, rather than follow what God has shown me to do.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a bad manager or incompetent to control myself and others, indeed I have variously controlled many business's successfully.

But all of the messes I have trodden into or created have been where I took control, and all of the successes have been when I had known that I had no real idea how to do what I was commissioned to do, and had to rely upon divine guidance and intervention.

At the end of the day (and the tribulation will definitely be THE END of all days) the whole division between Gods people and those of the world, the factor governing who gets Raptured and who is left behind to face their fate, will be who have you placed your trust in?

One of the less featured lines is scripture is shown right >

Basically whatever we do, it's going to be clear WHY we did it, when our works are exposed and what we did for US will burn off, whereas what we did for God will stand and bring a reward to us.

So if we know that God already taken control over all things, knows our thoughts, and is willing to provide for all our needs PROVIDED WE TRUST HIM TO DO SO why would we worry about what will happen when God calls time on our world?

What can go wrong?

If we are caught up in the PreTrib Rapture, nothing whatsoever, after all we will be gathered about with Christ in the twinkling of an eye, and become observers from that point until we return to a new earth to rule with Christ..... no problems there.....

Now how do we fare if the Rapture is PreWrath, rather than PreTrib?

Well if we have made our own provisions (stored those nuts and berry's for the tribulation) then I guess believers will be OK until they are found out, or raided by those people who forgot or never bothered to store things for that time.

What do you do then? shoot those who ask you to give them food, or give it away?

Christ told us to give when we were asked, rather than shoot, so maybe storing those provisions will create a spiritual problem to be dealt with, when the hoards beat a path to your door, and I would guess that Mr Antichrists' Police force will not be too helpful if you complain to them.

So you choose to trust God in all things, what then....

Assuming we are in the PreWrath by this time, all those believers who declared that PreTrib was THE way to go, will be wrong footed and either quick to adapt, or very angry and totally unprepared for what is happening, but in any case it still comes down to whether they trust God.

Scripture tells us that during this time the Antichrist will be starting to demand that people swear allegiance to him, and probably MOST of the world will willingly do so in return for the promise of the protection, food and shelter he will offer those who will take the mark.

Think how easy shopping would be if you had your right hand chipped to pay the bill automatically... even better if the Government paid the bill for you!... sounds too good to be true? I think millions would welcome it!
Think how easy shopping would be if you had your right hand chipped to pay the bill automatically... even better if the Government paid the bill for you!... sounds too good to be true? I think millions would welcome it!

But we cannot take the mark.....

So we believers, if we are still here, have a problem.

Now to keep the comments box lighter, I will say now that even if the PreTrib believers are right, and the Rapture happens before the tribulation starts, there will still be believers on earth AFTER the event, we know this because the bible tells us that they will be slaughtered 'at the altar' and I guess that's the altar of the self proclaimed Antichrist ruler of the world.

These believers will be those who were too lukewarm to make the Rapture, basically card carrying members of Churchianity who thought saying a sinners prayer with your fingers crossed counted.

A reasonable assumption would be that many of these will dump their 'Christian veneer' and join the AC's team probably informing on any real believers they find out about, but some will see the error of their ways and decide that even then, getting right with God is the best course of action to take.

Actually at that point I would say it's the ONLY course of action to take.

So we will see some believers trying to stay alive but probably failing, and choosing to die as a witness to Christ, with hopefully some dignity.

But there will also be many former secularists who will now realize that despite their tardiness and rebellion to date, they can still qualify for Gods Kingdom, provided they reject the Antichrists' Kingdom.

That will be and always has been THE requirement.


By all means make provision for the tomorrow we may not expect to happen today, indeed, scripture tells us:

Matthew 24:36-38 (Amplified Bible)

But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

For just as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, [men] marrying and [women] being given in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah went into the ark.

So expect the unexpected to happen, when everything looks normal.

But right now everything does NOT look very normal does it? (rhetorical)

For our daily news looks more like Matthew 24 each day, as ALL these things come to pass, and we grow used to massive earthquakes, tsunamis, global credit crunches all happening.

What is normal nowadays?

Thankfully the bible has never changed it's message... trust God, hold the things of this world lightly and stand firm when the enemy attacks you with lies about your situation.

If we do that, we will never need to rely on our set aside provisions, but by all means buy them, when you are gone from this place, some soul will benefit from them!

In the 2000 computer scare (the end of the world as we knew it) was in full flow, we stored dry goods and water and all the things we thought would be required for surviving when the power went off.

Fortunately we lived in the countryside then, so survival had it happened would have been easier, as the screaming hoards would have had to walk a long way to find us!

In the event, as we all now know, nothing happened, and our friends all had a laugh at our expense, and we enjoyed what we termed 'Millennium Soup' for a few months once a week to use up our dry goods!

That may be why I now put my trust in God, rather than make plans to survive something, which I would only survive in any case, IF God decided to spare me.

Please VOTE....

Do you think the Rapture will be...

See results


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    • searchinsany profile image

      Alexander Gibb 

      9 years ago from UK


      The above was not one of my best comments. I apologize for any offense caused.

    • searchinsany profile image

      Alexander Gibb 

      10 years ago from UK


      An entertaining Hub to say the least.

      However some things just never change, I am just glad I 'Left Behind' Dispensationalism with all its loose ends, some years ago.

      In my opinion, a Doctrine that upholds, for example, the restoration of animal sacrifices and a return to Jew and Gentile division in a 'Millennium' is contrary to Scripture.

      Rather than go into more detail in the comments box, perhaps you may visit my Hubs on the subject.

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 

      10 years ago from West By God

      Just who are you getting your information from John? Remember not everything is in the Bible either. I am confused when you say that we are off topic. We are all talking about the same thing and that bothers me that you want to divide it so.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Hi DH and Lady G,

      OK, it is morning now for me in Penang, and I will not have time to answer these during a busy day, and in any case, we are way 'off topic' with these inquiries, so..... I will take what you both say onto consideration and do a hub covering these aspects, for I believe I can substantiate the position of Christ and His body, and the relevancy of the scriptures.

      I have taken a long walk to date, through many 'vineyards' and areas of discussion, and arrived back at my home town of faith, not the same anymore, just in belief for different reasons than when I started the walk.

      Yes I am a stranger in a strange land (literally) but I can see things many others who have not traveled this road see, and have seen many roads that my readers are travelling now.

      We do all arrive, but not all to the same destination.

      Now when I have a chance, I will write that hub.

    • Disappearinghead profile image


      10 years ago from Wales, UK

      John I hope you will forgive another intrusion by me on your comments page but I do have a couple more points.

      After 25 years in the church where I was conditioned to accept its doctrines without question on pain of being called an apostate I do see a certain irony in Revelation. The church today and throughout history simply does not tolerate dissent on its doctrines and failure to sign up to its creeds can result in ex-communication, shunning or being branded as being deceived by Satan. It is this behaviour that has produced all the denominations that don't talk to each other and lead them to think that others are not proper Christians. If ever there was a perfect match for the Whore of Babylon it is to me the established church with its formalised branded religion and career hierarchies, that crosses all denominations. Jesus never established the church after the pattern we see today. To my understanding it all went wrong during the first four centuries with the adoption of pagan theology such as the trinity and adoption of eternal torture by God for unbelievers.

      I'm reading up on Judaism at the moment and some hey differences are:

      1) Judaism I'd not a divided religion, thousands of denominations.

      2) it has no creeds or formalised doctrines as free thinking and the development of human understanding of God is expected.

      3) There is no original sin and fall of man doctrine.

      4) There is no self determining force of evil personified by a fallen angel in opposition to God (the church calls this Satan).

      5) They look forward to a time where the whole of mankind will come back to God and the Earth will be full of the knowledge of God. They call it universal salvation where one is judged by one's works not saved by conformity to a set of doctrines or a lame sinner's prayer.

      OK Christ is not accepted but we understand from scripture why this is so, but that is no excuse for the church to abandon 4000years of Jewish thought in favour of pagan ideology. Let's not forget that Jesus' problem was not with Judaism but with the organised religion and everything He said was based on His Judaism inheritance. We need to understand the OT and something of His culture if we are to have any chance of understanding his teaching.

    • Disappearinghead profile image


      10 years ago from Wales, UK

      Wow John what a reaction you've got here.

      I voted never happen for a number of reasons:

      1) Any hyped up doctrine that comes out of America must be treated with extreme caution. They are an excitable lot not known for being level headed and a million miles away from the Jewish culture of 2000years ago so we can't expect these church leaders have any idea of interpreting scripture in the light of the historical of cultural frame in which they were written.

      2) It wasn't until quite late in church history that Revelation was accepted by committee as being canon. As I understand it it could have easily gone the other way and being declared apocryphal. We believe it is God breathed only because a group of Catholic priests decided it should be so by a vote.

      3) In the opening chapter of John's vision he was told that he was to be shown what was soon to come to pass. The key word is soon and 2000 years is not soon.

      4) Jesus talked about the end but throughout his speech made it abundantly clear to me he was talking about 'this generation' that is Israel of his time. He also made many statements which appear to make it clear that the events would soon come to pass. That is, not 2000 years or more. In AD135 the state of Israel came to and end with great persecution and the events of the time fullfiled his prophecies.

      5) Jesus warned his disciples that in this life they were to expect tribulation so therefore any get out tribulation free card touted by pre-tribes is null and void.

      6) When you read Paul's letters it is abundantly clear that he expected rapture and Chrjst's return to be imminent. Many theologians would agree with this analysis. So that leaves us with a choice: either Christ did return and the church raptured in his time or these things are yet to come. If yet to come then Paul was in error. If Paul was in error then he was not speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit and Paul's letters are not canon. If we say Paul's letters are scripture then Christ has already retuned. We can't have our cake and eat it.

      7) According to many God will be at work in the Earth for 6000 years before a millennial rest corresponding to Christ's reign in Jerusalem. The Hebrew calendar is dated from the estimated creation of Adam and 2011 is the year 5771. That suggests that tribulation events will not occur for another 230 or so years so beyond my lifetime to worry about.

      8) One only has to look at medieval Europe with the Black Death wiping out a third of the population; oppression of the population by despotic monarchies; the evil inquisitions and the church's suppression of all dissent and free thinking to understand that one could call thosetribulation events. Consider the hocaust and the church's historic persecution of Jews and one could conclude tribulation.

      There are a number of hubs by various authors who claim to debunk the entire tribulation and rapture theory and put a very good case to say Christ returned on early church history. one might not agree with all that is written but many frame their arguments very well and are a good antidote to American evangelical hysteria.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Hi Lady G,

      So we are running a forum here!

      [THIS IS] the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries]. God gave it to Him to disclose and make known to His bond servants certain things which must shortly and speedily come to pass in their entirety. And He sent and communicated it through His angel (messenger) to His bond servant John.....

      Sounds pretty much like Christ is claiming this book as His own, and I would hesitate to think that ANYBODY would claim Christ had told them to write these words AS CHRISTS' if they were just a vivid dream or (more like) nightmare.

      If you believe that these words are nothing more than mans words, then you have rejected a major book of the bible, and coincidently the one referring to these days.

      That's abridge too far for me to swallow, so I must disagree if you say that the bible was NOT divinely inspired, though I can agree that there have been some dire interpretations made from Gods word, like I said before ALL TRUTH is in there to be found.

      I explained that I know Gods Kingdom is within me, but also without me, you may have some difficulty accepting that, I don't.

      Quote Lady G: "If this planet would be afresh then there would be no planet at all. "

      Errr the verse actually says: "...the former earth had passed away (vanished)"

      Passed away, vanished normally means, gone, expired, nothing left at all... I could go into a long 'dead parrot' monologue here, but I will refrain!

      Quote Lady G: "So you have the authroity to know which person has the Holy Sprit and who does not? When did Jesus give you (general not you specifically) that?"

      John 14-15:20

      If ye love me, keep my commandments.

      And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

      Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

      I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

      Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

      At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

      Now without doing some background research, I can't give you a date for these words, but they were said and they are relevant today, as to when the Holy Spirit arrived with us....

      Acts 2 1:5(King James Version)

      And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

      And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

      And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

      And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

      And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

      I have to sleep now, 1.30am where I am, back tomorrow!


    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 

      10 years ago from West By God

      Revelations was not written by Jesus. In fact non of the Bible was written by Jesus--only third parties.

      Do you believe the God in your heart or the God that is in a book that not everything of Jesus is written in?

      It appears that you still do not believe what Jesus said when He said that the Kingdom is WITHIN you.

      If this planet would be afresh then there would be no planet at all. Even the dirt has life in it. The lava has life in it the water has life in it, the air has life in it and I am not talking about animals or trees or things like that.

      So you have the authroity to know which person has the Holy Sprit and who does not? When did Jesus give you (general not you specifically) that?

      Did god tell us that he was in us and we are a part of him and that he would never leave us? If we are wiped off anything so would he be because he is in us.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Revelation 21 (Amplified Bible)

      Hi Lady G,

      You said:

      "Did Christ really say the whole earth will perish?"

      Revelation 21:1

      THEN I saw a new sky (heaven) and a new earth, for the former sky and the former earth had passed away (vanished), and there no longer existed any sea.

      First I really get twitchy when anyone asks "Did God really say that" wrote a whole hub about it, called the Satan Whisperers, and NO I am not calling you names, I know how touchy you get, I'm just explaining why I'm going to answer your comment.

      So YES Christ DID really say that the whole earth will perish, as the book of Revelation starts with:

      Revelation 1-1:2 (Amplified Bible)

      [THIS IS] the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries]. God gave it to Him to disclose and make known to His bond servants certain things which must shortly and speedily come to pass in their entirety. And He sent and communicated it through His angel (messenger) to His bond servant John,

      Who has testified to and vouched for all that he saw in his visions], the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

      and ends with the typesetting instructions:

      Revelation 22-13:21 (Amplified Bible)

      Behold, I am coming soon, and I shall bring My wages and rewards with Me, to repay and render to each one just what his own actions and his own work merit.

      I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last (the Before all and the End of all).

      Blessed (happy and to be envied) are those who cleanse their garments, that they may have the authority and right to [approach] the tree of life and to enter through the gates into the city.

      [But] without are the dogs and those who practice sorceries (magic arts) and impurity [the lewd, adulterers] and the murderers and idolaters and everyone who loves and deals in falsehood (untruth, error, deception, cheating).

      I, Jesus, have sent My messenger (angel) to you to witness and to give you assurance of these things for the churches (assemblies). I am the Root (the Source) and the Offspring of David, the radiant and brilliant Morning Star.(H)

      The [Holy] Spirit and the bride (the church, the true Christians) say, Come! And let him who is listening say, Come! And let everyone come who is thirsty [who is painfully conscious of his need of those things by which the soul is refreshed, supported, and strengthened]; and whoever [earnestly] desires to do it, let him come, take, appropriate, and drink the water of Life without cost.

      I [personally solemnly] warn everyone who listens to the statements of the prophecy [the predictions and the consolations and admonitions pertaining to them] in this book: If anyone shall add anything to them, God will add and lay upon him the plagues (the afflictions and the calamities) that are recorded and described in this book.

      And if anyone cancels or takes away from the statements of the book of this prophecy [these [f]predictions relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions or warnings pertaining to them], God will cancel and take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness (purity and hallowedness), which are described and promised in this book.

      He Who gives this warning and affirms and testifies to these things says, Yes (it is true). [Surely] I am coming quickly (swiftly, speedily). Amen (so let it be)! Yes, come, Lord Jesus!

      The grace (blessing and favor) of the Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) be with all the saints (God's holy people, those set apart for God, to be, as it were, exclusively His). Amen (so let it be)!


      Now personally, these are not instructions which I wish to ignore.

      Yes Christ did say that the kingdom of heaven was within us, ONCE He said it, in Luke 17 verse 20:21

      And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

      Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

      He also said MANY times about the believer being filled with the Holy Spirit, having the Holy Spirit within them, and about how there are restrictions for believers to actually ENTER the Kingdom, so yes He did say those words, but it may be less than sensible to base an entire eternal destiny upon one phrase plucked from over 31,000 sentences.

      Luke 17 pretty much sums up what this hub was about, probably most pertinently with verse 33:

      Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

      I lost my life 18 years ago, died, dead as a doornail, tried to dig him up again a few times, but dead bodies stink, so finally I left him in the grave and walked into the Kingdom, still stuck here on earth awaiting my final orders or the big roundup in the sky, and YES I do have the kingdom of God within me, just like my wife was born with our daughter within her, awaiting activation by our union, like I awaited activation by my union with Christ, and like I await activation into the Kingdom now, but still have the seed, the component parts within me, but yet unactivated.

      Till we get activated for the final move to eternity, I'll put my trust in God and His word, read plainly using a dictionary for definition, so when God tells me He IS going to wipe the bacteria off this planet and start afresh, I believe Him.

      There, now you have another hub for free in the comments box!


    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 

      10 years ago from West By God

      All the bacteria are going to be wiped out too---nonsense since that is the precursor to life itself. Did Christ really say the whole earth will perish?

      So you think other beings will be done away with also. Then why are we here? Are we pawns of some big guy who wants to play with his creations like toys that we can't even see? What of all the new and great and good things that are now coming into creation? They are just up and going to be now more? Then why do anything right future? What of the phrase Jesus taught us and I see you have ignored it in my posts: The Kingdom is WITHIN You?

      My Hub that I wrote a little while back asking How Are You Preparing For The End O The World:

      Can you answer those questions with total certainty? What and how are you telling your children that they are here for no reason whatsoever only to fulfill the whims of some big guy in the sky? Do you tell them that they should learn no more because it won't be needed? Does it feel good to put that kind of fear into others?

      Oh BTW I noticed that you posted in the hubtivity, but it took HP 25 minutes to send me the notice in my e-mail today.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Lady G, the Wormwood onward aspect of the Revelation of Christ kinda secures my belief that when God tells us all humanity will perish when He calls time, is going to be ALL, indeed if you look scientifically at what happens when we get to chapter 8, it's obvious that it will destroy EVERY living thing.

      Planetary hits as described will wipe out the earth, hiding in an underground tomb will not save anyone, and such tombs are futile attempts by rebellious humanity to try and stand against the wrath of God.

      I have ants in the garden who also believe they are immune from my decisions to dig deep when I plant a tree, oblivious in their lack of understanding.

      God just uses a bigger plough and tractor.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Hi Enlydia, Maybe not so much generous as aware that comments bring readers in to find out what the fuss is about, just like cars slow down when passing an accident!

      My objective is to get seen and read by whoever God sends my way, that's all, anything else is a bonus!

      Thanks for visiting, and especially the comment!


    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 

      10 years ago from West By God

      Those links that I supplied you with were about underground living spaces that have been around for a very long time. It was to prove that not all humans will be wiped off the planet or taken up or wherever they may go. I also have the correct information about Armaggedon and it was an actual place and there were battles there but no more and there won't be any more.

      "The word Armageddon appears only once in the Greek New Testament.[5] The word comes from Hebrew har m?giddô (?? ?????), meaning "Mountain of Megiddo". Megiddo is a small mountain on which ancient forts were built that guarded the main highway, the Via Maris, that connected Ancient Egypt with Mesopotamia. Megiddo was the location of many decisive battles in ancient times (including one in the 15th century BC and one in 609 BC). The town Megiddo in Israel is approximately 25 miles (40 km) westsouthwest of the southern tip of the Sea of Galilee (or Lake Tiberias to the Romans) in the Kishon River area."

      You can read the rest of the meaning and how it is used in different places on the site that I quoted this from:

    • Enlydia Listener profile image

      Enlydia Listener 

      10 years ago from trailer in the country

      Dear aquasilver, wow! this hub has drawn out the swords...I appreciate the fact that you allow all comments. Not everyone would be so generous.

    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Richert 

      10 years ago from Southern Illinois

      A very well written hub John. You ask many questions and recieve many answers. I don't have an opinion on the Rapture, manny people differ on this aspect in the Bible. I believe there will be a Rapture and i believe all people who have love for God and all mankind will go to Heaven. God teaches us that words without love is hopeless. Thank you for sharing.

      God Bless

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 

      10 years ago from West By God

      Polly, Dear, dear you do judge so. Did Jesus say to get the log out of your eye before you ever try to get the sawdust out of someone else's eye. You have just proved that you think you know more than anyone else and therefore put yourself on that proverbial pedestal of the Holier Than Thou. Jesus NEVER said to do that.

      What do you think Jesus meant when he said that Everything is Within YOU? What do you think when Jesus stated that You should treat others as you would have them treat you. Well how would you like to be treated in the same way that you have just treated me? Oh don't answer that because you are Holier Than Thou and were right there when the words that Jesus said were written. YOU Know Everything and all that you know is total truth.

      You go check again on who was being said to kick from your shoes--the whole paragraph in context.

      "?All Truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self-evident."

      - Arthur Schopenhauer German Philosopher, 1788-1860

    • Dave Mathews profile image

      Dave Mathews 

      10 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

      Brother John I am a "Pre-Tribulation" believer.

      I believe that all Christians, Reborn in Christ Jesus will be gathered up to Him in the heavens. This said, unless I am totally stupid and sin against the Holy Spirit, one who is "My Brother" just as Lord Jesus is "My Brother" whether I am alive or already dead, I will be joining Jesus in the heavens.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Thanks Mickey, I see you have had a rough ride these last days from your Facebook comments, may you find peace in your heart and rest easy.


    • Micky Dee profile image

      Micky Dee 

      10 years ago

      Nice write aguasilver. I don't give two figs about much in the Bible anymore. People cannot and will not grasp God's greatest law that is in every language.

      I refuse to add to their complicity. The Christian should not care about a rapture. Jesus never said - there will be 144,000 Christians flying up in the air in 2012 or any other year.

      A Christian's goal should be to worship the true God and lift his fellow brothers and sisters of peace up. Thanks for a great write!Oh - as a Christian - I don't give a fig about consensual sexual relations concerning anybody.

      There are so many BOMBS and GUNS going off around the world I can't see or hear ANYTHING ELSE! If taking care of humanity is God's greatest law - KILLING HUMANITY IS THE GREATEST SIN! The people most heavily armed are causing ALL the problems I see.

      God bless.

    • Pollyannalana profile image


      10 years ago from US

      I think you will find I am nothing as I appear a this first meeting, certain people on here are anti-Christ and I won't waste my breath arguing with them, I know a few of them have upset Christian women very much and I won't allow it and I love bible study and what might this or that mean, I am certainly not a know it all but when we let satan in it is not a place I think God will show up. I hope these anti-Christs are not in all your hubs. I will read more tomorrow, I have read four so far. LadyJojo is the little friend, I will see if she would like to read you too.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Pollyannalana, delighted you are going to read another hub, hope you read more in time, and that where I need correction, you will feel free to correct, and where I challenge, you will feel free to be challenged.

      It's a long walk from sinner to saint and we change along the way many times, I know things now that I would never have wanted to know back then, and have rejected some things now that I rejected others for disputing back then.

      But my love of Christ, and desire to know Him better, has continued to grow despite my meanderings.

      You are welcome here, feel free to comment wherever it needs to be commented.

    • Pollyannalana profile image


      10 years ago from US

      Lady Guin it says men sleeping with men and they even wanted Lot to hand over the two male angels to them to rape. If you can read you can find the truth, you have many tell you the scripture since I have been here, that's on you and I would appreciate you staying away from me,thank you.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Hi Lady G,

      I think 2 Thessalonians 2 leaves me no doubt that what is called 'The Rapture' will take place, for I see very well the Apostasy of the body of Christ has occurred already.

      Take a look at:

      Some friends I have followed for about 15 years.

    • Pollyannalana profile image


      10 years ago from US

      I don't mean to sound like a smart aleck but a young Christian girl I didn't even know at the time and I got verbally attacked and now shunned (which is just as well with me) but this girl was hurt I know losing friends but not choosing lies to keep friends. Most of these people here run around yelling love love and have no idea what the bible says because they don't read it and won't and there is no use trying, I simply write and it is there to take or leave. Seeing you have been here longer than me I am sure you have been there. I don't write for money here first because I don't trust them and second I have written Children's books and Christian romance and this is where I can reach out to whoever likes that. I have a pretty good following and many don't get added to my count. Growing up with five brothers I am no longer a tom boy but I don't mince words, not even with hubpage owners. I don't want people going to hell and neither does God but Jesus just gave the word as He went, He didn't keep coming back and begging for them to listen. He also had a fit in a temple many where doing wrong in His Father's place of worship and the people that think Gays are going to heaven thought that was blasphemy saying that. I didn't say it! It is part of the word. Jesus was not all love, love, everyone is going to heaven. Jesus said shape up! I came not to bring peace but turn mother against daughter..etc

      Nice meeting you, I will read another of your hubs before bedtime.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image

      Judah's Daughter 

      10 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Well, hey ~ I WISH I could find as much biblical evidence to support a pre-trib rapture as I find for pre-wrath. I see the two witnesses resurrected at the same time as the Church ~ just before the fall of Babylon. Some think those two witnesses represent the Jews and Church (I'm not sold on that yet). I am comforted to know that even when God poured out His wrath on Egypt, Israel wasn't harmed at all. I'll trust Him all the way.

      I thought about storing up food for a year ~ now, I live in CA, which may very well be hit by earthquake disaster (if the New Madrid fault blows, much of the central US will be underwater, and the same is said about CA). Nonetheless, I will not buy flood insurance (lol). I think, if the economy gets so bad that food prices sky-rocket, will we be able to keep our jobs and homes? If we're jobless or homeless, where do we store a year's worth of food? I get tired just thinking about it. I'm going to wait on the Lord and follow His instructions, whatever they may be. He provided mannah from heaven and quail for His people ~ He feeds the birds ~ He tells us not to worry, so I shant.

      Then again, I see how Joseph was told to stock up for seven years and was obedient to do so. Whatever the Lord says to do, I'll do. Love reading your hubs ~ JD

    • profile image


      10 years ago

      Lady Guin, no one knows the hour or the day when Jesus returns, but we are plainly told that we will know when it is close at hand. Good hub aguasilver.

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 

      10 years ago from West By God

      Aquasilver, I don't agree with the pre or any trib or rapture.

      Polly--where in the Bible did it say exactly that they were gays?

      God is not a person he is within all of us and Jesus ut all the las in our hearts and minds. No one knows the end times--not anyone and Jesus said in that Bible that those who are predicting any end times we need to stay away from them. I am only going by what the Bible states.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Hi Pollyanna, This never started life as an exposition of the Rapture, just included that and then went that way! I term the Mid Trib as PreWrath, and term it that way as my more serious friends ( calling it that, and it kinda stuck with me, plus it's accurate.

      I don't think anybody can be 100% sure WHEN it will occur, that after all is the point, but I also tend to be marginally MidTrib, in that we clearly see some tribulation in scripture to endure.

      For the record, I don't think sinners get to spend eternity with God either, no matter whether they are homosexual sinners or heterosexual sinners, penalty seems to be equal opportunity!

      And NO Jesus did not marry Mary and have a child and the Meregovian dynasty rubbish is just power elites playing power plays.


    • Pollyannalana profile image


      10 years ago from US

      OK what I don't find here is mid tribulation and I do have a hub on it too, been awhile not sure what all I covered but lean to mid because of a 7 yr peace agreement that goes fine at first but midway the anti-Christ will go into the Jew's new temple and claim to be Christ and I think at this time simultaneously Jesus will call us up. I don't have my bible to go through here leaving verse, just telling you what my studies said to me. The bible says even the elect would have been fooled if it were possible and we might ask does this mean the Jew or Christian but to me the bible says pray it not be in winter or be with sucking child and there will be fleeing I think by the Jew because this will be the awakening of the Jew that indeed their Savior is not this man maybe even know by this their mistake but I feel the anti-Christ cannot fool ones with the Holy Spirit, the Church must be taken away and this is when things go from this man that made things look so good the first three years will really get bad. This will be when no one can buy or sell without his mark,,,well I won't go on but that is my belief with the possibility of pre but definitely not post because God does not bring tribulation on His own.(Noah,(the flood) Lot (where God wiped out two places because of unrepentant Gays) None of these destroyed would listen either.

      I look forward to reading the rest of your hubs. I base all my opinions on the word as the Holy Spirit lets me see it and as anyone will tell you I am never politically correct. I can be friends with you even if you have a different outlook but if you say Gays are going to heaven and Jesus and Mary had a baby then I don't want to discuss God with you, and I am usually pretty good with my gift of suspicion to say I think you are a true believer and read the word for truth to show yourself approved. Yes I believe it is end times.


    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Hi Lady G, I will follow your links (and allow them here) and get back to you.... wow, that was a short lived agreement! :o)

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 

      10 years ago from West By God

      Hogwash! End Times! There have been some 250 dates that have supposedly been the End Times. The earth changes all the time, not all at once. All of mankind will NOT be wiped off this earth. There are bunkers under ground that house many, many people for long periods of time. Jesus said to be aware of "Sign Seekers" and to stay away from them.

      Did the Bible talk about these:

    • profile image


      10 years ago

      Excellent Hub!

      You said, "Basically whatever we do, it's going to be clear WHY we did it, when our works are exposed and what we did for US will burn off, whereas what we did for God will stand and bring a reward to us."

      This is really the bottom line, eh?

      I voted Pretrib, but it all still makes my head spin - reckon the best thing ti to have those lamps full



    • Enlydia Listener profile image

      Enlydia Listener 

      10 years ago from trailer in the country

      I am not quite sure what my vote is...However I know He is coming back...I feel it will be soon...but soon could be another decade or so....maybe longer??? However the signs of the times speak loud. I have never experienced such a crazy time in all of my life.

    • Barbara Kay profile image

      Barbara Badder 

      10 years ago from USA

      I'm shocked by how many people think it will never happen per your survey. This was an excellent article. I just wrote a hub about the end days. Your's is well written.

    • WillStarr profile image


      10 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      Very interesting and spooky. I'll have to read it again.

    • aguasilver profile imageAUTHOR

      John Harper 

      10 years ago from Malaga, Spain

      Thanks Brie, when you get time, check out the video.... it's scary!

    • Brie Hoffman profile image

      Brie Hoffman 

      10 years ago from Manhattan

      Very good article, I really enjoyed it.


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