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When I cursed God
Free from the belief of hell
When I believed in hell, I think the closest to a relationship I could have back then with God was cursing Him for creating me. Anger is part of any relationship with anyone, and I was filled with anger against God for creating me and hell. I called Him a selfish tyrant and that He was no better than a pagan god. He created me, my family and friends knowing full well most of us are going to hell and He was not worthy of my worship. His question to me was, "what proof do you have that I have created such a place"? I said it is written in the bible. He asked "where"? I showed Him the verses Jesus said about hell? Jesus spoke more about hell than He did heaven. He asked me "do you understand what my Son really said"? And I answered yes? He asked me "is it in yourself to think that what you understand about what you have interpreted in scripture is possibly wrong"? I said maybe. He asked me "Do I break my promises when I make them"? I didn't answer as I was now lost for words. I asked Him, what promises have you made? He said "the one I made to Abraham, and through him I would bless all nations and families". I asked Him, what about hell? He said "How should such a belief glorify me and give me purpose and pleasure"? I am Father to all, and I have given all things to my obedient Son, and He will give all things back to me without losing one. My child, I have known the numbers of hair on your arms before you were born. When you fell, who helped pick you up? When you were sad, who was sad with you? When you cried, who cried with you? When you laughed, who laughed with you? Did the Father of the prodigal son ask His little one who returned to Him what he did with his share of the money? Did He tell His child to wash the filth of swine stench off him before his Father embraced him? Did he accuse His prodigal son of anything? No! I am that Father waiting for you all to come home. My anger is for but a moment but my love endures always. My love is an unfailing, unconditional love for all my children, believing and unbelieving. So what it some do not believe in me, that will not nullify my faith in them. I let them be disobedient so I may show them my mercy. My image has suffered more from my exponents than from my opponents. I have not created a place of hopelessness called hell when my Son created hope for all when He said "It is done".
I fell and cried with a great joy. He is a true loving, forgiving and merciful Father. Tears of great joy fell down my face when I learned who my Father truly is. I can now worship Him without the motivation of going to hell. I can now love Him because He is love. I hold His hand when I go for walks. He scolds me when I do bad, as a responsible Father should. He rewards me when I do good, as a loving Father would. The truth has truly set me free. Peace on earth and good will to all mankind
God's Judgement
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- Author
You are a literalist Lybrah. The voice I heard came from scripture. The bible holds many wonders and beauties, and when you learn to read the white between the print, you will see them too.
I don't know about this one. Are you sure the voice you heard was that of God's? Remember, Satan will disguise himself in order to deceive you.
- Author
It doesnt matter what I answer, I already know you have made up your mind. I dont waste any time on narrow minded people and their beliefs.
You haven't answered my questions, which seems to be typical of your style. Avoiding the direct questions which challenge your beliefs.
Unfollowed.
- Author
I use to believe in demons from the underworld called hell and from films such as the exercist. Now I know that we manifest these things through our beliefs. My wife had visions of the most horrible things when she became a Christian and was even under attack a number of times. I even saw a glass of water move across the table with my oldest son and my wife. At that time we believed in such entities from hell. Now we no longer do, because we know that experience was just a manifestation of what we then believed. Another friend of mine had the same problem and she even concidered getting a catholic exorcist to rid her house of this problem. I told her not to turn this into a dramatic issue with priests, and told her what she had to do. She did exactly what I said and she and her family never had a problem again. Christ said, so as you believe, so shall it be, so if you want to believe in demons as entities from your pagan man made hell, go right a head.
Matthew 8 has two stories of demon-possessed people being delivered by Jesus, but those stories are not the words of Christ. They are the words of Matthew as he was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Gospels have many such stories. Are we to take all of these stories as metaphor and analogy?
What about Mark 5? Are we to conclude that when Jesus delivered the Gerasene man from a Legion of demons, he was actually being cured of a mental disorder? If so, then all the pigs in the neighborhood suddenly became mentally ill? That follows from your comment earlier, but really makes no sense.
And I made no accusation. I merely concluded what you then confirmed. I said that you don't take the Bible at face value. You responded that the words of Jesus are not to be taken literally, a restatement of my conclusion.
- Author
Be serious, Christ just didnt use anologies in parables. And if you accuse anyone else of anything on my hubs, I will not approve your comments. Christ's words are spirit and life, and they are not to be taken literally.
You just refuse to take the Bible at face value.
Of course I've heard of an analogy. We call them parables. The narrative descriptions in the Gospels are most certainly not analogies.
- Author
Have you never heard of an anology? Besides, if you want to believe in a Dante,s enferno style hell with all the ugly things that go with it, be my guess.
Why do the Scriptures explicitly say 'casting out demons' and 'demon-possessed' on numerous occasions?
- Author
Healing the insane.
So what was Jesus doing in those situations?
- Author
He believes in the bible, but he reads it as it was meant to be read and I agree with him about the use of the words demons.
What Bible are you reading, Disappearing head? No demons?
Matthew 7:22; 8:16; 9:33; 10:8; 12:27-28
Mark 1:34; 3:15; 16:9
Luke 11:18-20
If you're going to believe the Bible, you better believe the whole Word.
- Author
As long as you dont concider this spam
I suppose you consider this spam?
- Author
I use to think CJ was interesting, but I witnessed nothing but spam from him. He has that answers for everything mentality as well as the molech mentality. Anyone who gives an opinion without a question mark after it is not worth listening to.
C.J. , please, call me Bro :)
- Author
Followers of Christ and His total victory on the Cross. Before the Catholic church banned Universal reconciliationof all with God. Almost all believers believed in the true gospel Paul brought them until pagan traditions and mythology crept in around AD400.
"People like us"? Just what kind of people is that - what is the name of the cult you belong to...I'm curious. You are very good at taking quips from scripture out of context and building doctrines about what you want them to mean when it is obvious you have no desire to seek the truth in the context it was written, by God but only to satisfy your own desire.
- Author
You accusers have been calling people like us heretics ever since the catholic church banned the gosple of Universal salvation. You follow a god that has double standards. He commands us to love, bless and forgive our enemies while he sends his to hell. This is the image of the god you worship Dan3:1-6.
"Hateful accusation"? just calling a spade a spade. What a copout - so label me as hateful and you can justify ignoring everything I say?
“Did Paul teach that there is a hell?” - you have to look beyond the mere use of the word and ask “Did Paul teach the principles of divine wrath and judgment, divine vengeance against sin, and eternal destruction?” He taught all of these principles. Paul taught that divine judgment is coming, so you’d better prepare. Acts 17:30-31, 24:24-25. Besides this is confirmed through other books of the Bible - one cannot pick and choose out of context what one wants to believe from the Bible. If any part of it is not true on what basis can any of it be believed if it is not all the Word of God.
What you are doing is taking your preconceived notion that there is no hell and trying to find justification for your feelings, so to do so you must pervert the Word of God. You get this idea from a voice (of God?) you hear? So have many cultist, perverters of The Word, have gotten doctrines from voices they hear. This is nothing new and an old trick of the devil. If you want to deceive someone isn't it best you convince them that you, the deceiver, doesn't exist?
Hate has nothing to do with what I am saying, I say it out of love as I do not wish for you the end you seem to want to choose - The Bible clearly states what God has prepared for those who willfully lead his sheep astray and that is exactly what you are doing, preaching another God, one who does not exist. It is all in the Word of God.
It is you who declares that if God doesn't fit your mold you choose to have nothing to do with him, as if you in your sin as a fallen man can dictate the character and nature of God. When you say “If loving a God who will save all mankind is wrong, then I don't ever want to be right." what you are really saying is, if I can't worship a false God then I choose to go to hell. What you should be saying is if there is any chance there is a hell, any chanceI have this wrong maybe I should rethink this, maybe I should cast my pride aside and seek out those who can show me where I'm wrong, and then make my decision after I have exhausted any avenue to the truth. Do you not care enough about your eternal soul to know that you have this right (no "if'"s about it)? and you can know. Do that and if you are honest with yourself you will find that you cling to doctrine that is not found in the Word of God. Base your beliefs on anything else and you will be led astray and so will lead others astray.
- Author
Your hateful accusation is duly noted. Btw, we who you call heretics believe in the gospel that Paul brought us. The gospel of reconjciliation of all with God 2Cor5. Fyi, Paul never taught the gentiles about some place called hell.
CJ Sledgehammer, thank you for standing behind the Word of God. These heretics here preach another gospel.
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" (Galatians 1:8)
Eternal condemnation? sounds like hell to me! or
"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."(2 Corinthians 11:14)
The Bible clearly states that we are not to follow doctrines that contradict the Word of God and these writers are putting their imaginations above the written Word of God. God will never speak to you words that contradict the Bible so it is not the Holy Spirit that these men are being led by but the very spirit they have been persuaded does not exist. Their persistence in their beliefs has not forged love in their lives or for their fellow man or for God but hate which they manifest in what they say and how they say it. God bless you CJ Sledgehammer. God is love but he has no love for evil and as much as he is love he is just, and so evil must be punished.
@CJS A really excellent book is 'Jewish Theology' by Kaufmann Kohler first published in 1918. It describes Jewish understanding of life the universe and everything from Mosaic times through to reform Judaism and how understanding has changed. There are some excellent descriptions on the Jewish take of Adam and Eve and the garden events which are so far removed from the Church's. Also Satan and demons are properly described with their evolution in human thinking over the centuries.
You could also look up a few online Jewish encyclopaedias, your mind will be opened.
Also look up Zoroastrianism and compare it to Judaism. You should find some articles about how it influenced Jewish beliefs apart from the bible during the exile. Beliefs in demons really took off there and became so ingrained in superstition by Jesus time as to be universally accepted as real entities.
At the end of it all I very much doubt you would believe in the Christian Satan or demons.
- Author
I agree Disappearinghead. Beliefs such as the lucifer myth or satan as an actual entity have slipped in the church.
D.H.:
I am hardly convinced. Please state your references and the authority you use to overturn 100's of other Biblical scholars that say these texts, properly translated, refer to "demons".
Be well - C.J. Sledgehammer
@ CJS
Lev 17:7 says goats in Youngs Literal, and goat idols in the NIV: no demons here.
Deut 32 is false gods: no demons here.
2 Chron 11 is goat idols again: no demons here.
Psalm 106 is false gods again: no demons here either.
A study of Jewish theology will confirm that there are no demons or an arch enemy of God in Judaism. These superstitious beliefs found their way into Jewish popular culture from the assimilation of Zoroastrian beliefs, namely Ahriman, during the exile.
"@CJS. There are no devils, they weren't formally invented until the New Testament; you won't find any in the OT. Don't you think that odd?" - Disappearinghead
Yes, my friend, I do find that odd, considering that demons are mentioned in Leviticus 17:7; Deuteronomy 32:16-17; 2 Chronicles 11:15; and Psalm 106:37 (to name a few).
Be well - C.J. Sledgehammer
@CJS. There are no devils, they weren't formally invented until the New Testament; you won't find any in the OT. Don't you think that odd? Thus during Jesus' ministry where the only scriptures in existence were the Hebrew ones, anybody who believed in demons had unbiblical ideas. Now that's controversial.
- Author
And may God forgive you :)
"The thought of all are saved angers them." - SoM
Yes...it does anger me and it would anger the Apostles and Disciples, too, because it is heretical to the core. You preach a doctrine of devils and God's truth is foreign to you. May God rebuke you.
- Author
I agree. The thought of all are saved angers them.
Why does the Church acknowledge Jesus' command to love our enemies and do good to them, but then totally neglect to implement it? Because they don't believe God will do good to his enemies when they die, but will throw them into hell. They do not see that Jesus would not give us a command that the Father will not abide by, so they make him a hypocrite which gives them licence to be hypocrites too.
- Author
Friend, when Christ spoke those words in Matt 7:13-14, who was He speaking to, and when was it spoken? Christ's selfless act of love saved all mankind from eternal sleep in our graves and most of all, He saved us all from ourselves. Is Christ the saviour of the entire world, or only a few as you quoted in Matt 7:13-14? If loving a God who will save all mankind is wrong, than I don't ever want to be right. It is better to love the image of God I know than the image you know as far as I am concerned. The image you know is no better than the man you see in the mirror, or at least the same image found in Dan3:1-6.
SoM"
"I am Father to all, and I have given all things to my obedient Son, and He will give all things back to me without losing one." - SoM
"He created me, my family and friends knowing full well most of us are going to hell and He was not worthy of my worship. His question to me was, "what proof do you have that I have created such a place"? I said it is written in the bible. He asked "where"? - SoM
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Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." - Holy Bible
If no one will be lost and there is no hell, then what did Christ Jesus come to save us from?
On a personal level I think your quest to develop your "own theology" and your distaste for hell, has led you away from truth. In order to love God, you have edited and changed some things within God's Word.
In this sense, you don't love Him...you love the one you created - a god you have fashioned to meet your own needs and one that agrees with your personal theology.
Joseph Smith Jr. saw the same benefits of practicing one's own theology. Please don't go down that road...it isn't worth it.
Be well - C.J. Sledgehammer
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