Golda Meir (Israel’s representative to the United Nations, was the first of the delegates to react to the news of Pope Pius XII’s death.)
Emilio Zolli (The former chief rabbi of Rome during the German occupation)
Pinchas Lapide (Israeli diplomat and scholar)
Jeno Levai (The foremost Jewish Scholar of the Holocaust)
Dr. Joseph Nathan (who represented the Hebrew Commission in 1945)
The quotes above are taken from The Truth About Pope Pius XII.
Rabbi David Dalin wrote this essay titled A Righteous Gentile: Pope Pius XII and the Jews.
Rabbi David Dalin also wrote this book titled The Myth of Hitler's Pope which completely disputes John Cornwell's book titled Hitler's Pope.
God bless them all.
Obviously by now you should realize this thread is to attempt to put an end to the myth that Pope Pius XII was a German collaborator. And to show the good works that Catholics did during WWII to try to save Jewish lives.
Quite the different story than what is trying to be portrayed these days.
If the above is not enough proof for you then you may want to watch the videos on Investigating the papacy of Pope Pius XII. Even just the first video is quite revealing.
There are also quite a few articles on Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust here.
Yeah Mike, I've always found it kind of interesting that smart people back in the day. I mean the brainiacs upon whom we now base most of our scientific concepts never really denied the Divine. For them it wasn't a concept too far-fetched. Or something that would make you less smarter if you chose to believe in it. Unlike today...nice quotes, Mike.
I think you missed his point. You might want to try reading it before commenting.
Mike was just proving that the catholics are really the good guys and a few jews think so too - Despite all the bad press, child molesting, cover ups, pope being a Nazi, political shenanigans, money laundering etc etc etc.
yeah I realize I kinda veered. But my point is, even a smart guy like Einstein didnt think it too far-fetched to acknowledge the Divine. I realize his point about the Catholics being the good guys and all.
So if dumb guys think there is a god this means there isn't?
And any way, Einstein was a self-professed agnostic:
"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." Albert Einstein, 1949.
i'm not saying Einstein was a crusader. Everybody knows he wasn't. And who's talking about a personal God? Not me. But I like that quote though. You can tell this Einstein Dude wasn't full of himself at all. I mean talking about humility corresponding to weakness of intellect and all. That's deep. I like guys who are smart and humble. They get me everytime.
He was a clever man, no question. And was often annoyed that when he refused to clearly state that he was an atheist, other's twisted that to mean he believed in the "divine."
So when you say "Divine," what do you mean exactly? Is this different to the god you worship?
I just think "Divine" is an all encompassing word. Any individual, irrespective of his or her religious-affiliations relates with the word. It speaks of both God and all that is His.
Sounds like "special,"
If everyone is special, no one is. Which film?
Tricky man, Mark. You know I'm into movies, right. Lol. Thing is the film's title is at the tip of my tongue, but I just cant name it. Help me out though.
This forum never ceases to amaze me. Now people are arguing about the minuscule details. Einstein may have been considered agnostic by faith, but many Jews are known for considering themselves Jewish culturally while not practicing a religion. The arguing is in the details, and this is really not something to debate.
A little off topic but I don't mind.
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." Albert Einstein
"I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Albert Einstein
I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. Albert Einstein
Not sure why you religionists insist on lying about it and Mr. Einstein himself appears to have been pretty upset about it. Oh well - anything to push your god huh? Lying is OK if it for god.
Thanks Make Money.
Hey Hey, easy guys. Now I'm not saying either is correct. Personally, I wouldn't care much about what Einstein or anyone believed in. But either of you guys' quotes are clearly contradictory. What makes either right or wrong. I suppose if both of you were right then perhaps Einstein wouldn't be as smart as we give him credit for. I mean, being so damn confused and all.
You got that right fierycj, Einstein does sound confused when you compare his writings on God and religion, doesn't he. It seems like he was more of a rationalist than an atheist. I like that, it shows that he was still searching.
Should we move on to Golda Meir's quotes now?
He certainly was a fan of the Pope, wasn't he? Golda Meir. But thats quite interesting, isn't it. Why? He didnt have to publicly declare these things, did he. Why?
No Golda Meir didn't have to publicly declare what she did about Pope Pius XII (Golda was a female). But she did because she knew the help that Pope Pius XII and the Catholic underground gave to Jews in Europe during World War II.
It's quite the different story than we are being told today. It's amazing how a couple of highly advertised false books can re-write history these days. There is an investigation under way right now to try to uncover whether John Cornwell's book titled Hitler's Pope was commissioned by the KGB. Maybe you can enlighten us Mark?
I have no idea Make Money. I imagine, like many political organizations there were factions for and against Nazism in the catholic church. Just like there were many British in favor of what Hitler was doing. Which the government did an extremely good job of disguising. The same way the catholic church and the British government are doing to this day. Spreading lies in the guise of asking questions.
That is what politicians do. That is what you are doing now.
Well, he clearly stated he was an agnostic. Which I guess is a rationalist also. He also clearly stated he was an atheist as far as a Jesuit was concerned.
Silly Mark. The two recent quotes from Einstein that I posted were quoted from this wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Ein … e-eigod-55
And what is your point Make Money? That the catholic church does not condone or hide nazis and child molesters?
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
He couldn't have made it any clearer than that could he?
Well if the KGB commissioned John Cornwell to write the book titled Hitler's Pope then it should be made public.
The investigation into this is mentioned in this video.
I just watched the video again. Actually the story broke last year, which is being investigated now that according to one account the KGB was behind the 1963 novel/play called The Deputy (also known as The Representative and also made into a film called Amen) which basically re-wrote the history of Pope Pius XII during WWII. The video above also disputes John Cornwell's book titled Hitler's Pope as being academic dishonesty. Thanks again fierycj.
Your ability to perpetually provide resources to support your points never ceases to amaze me, Mike.
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