If you take away history and consider just this season, who would you take Eli or Brady?
Personally I think Manning is playing at a higher level than Brady. Add to that his elite elusiveness in the pocket and that is where ELi is really setting him apart. Bottom line on Tom Brady is he is looking like a statue back there. Brady maybe a better decision maker, but even in that category ELi has shown some pretty good decisions in the last in the last few games. IMHO right at this moment in time Eli Manning is the best quarterback in the NFL.
Hopefully he proves it on Sunday.
I hope Eli proves it too. I must Google his name to see who he is.
Statistically, they aren't even close. Brady has a higher completion percentage, 10 more TD passes, 4 fewer interceptions, and about 300 more yards. His QB rating is 13 points higher. Even with a terrible running game (which the Giants also suffered from for most of the season) and one of the worst defenses in football, the Patriots still only lost 3 games this season.
Manning has had some memorable 4th quarter heroics, but he's also been getting lucky lately. He threw 2 passes directly at 49ers defenders last week, only to have the passes broken up... by a different 49ers defender! If either one of those throws made it into the hands of the defense, Manning is likely watching this Super Bowl from home. Manning had a better conference championship game than Brady, but Manning was facing the 16th best pass defense, while Brady was facing #4.
Despite all this, I still think the Giants will win this game. It all comes down to who has the better team at the moment, and I think that team is the Giants. Their defense is better, their offense should be "good enough" against an awful Pats defense, and the Patriots main receiving weapon (Gronkowski) will either be on the sidelines or playing with an injury.
I'll even predict that Manning has a better performance than Brady in this game, because Brady will not have his favorite tight end at 100% and the Patriots pass-blockers will not be able to stop the Giants D-line.
One thing I will say to make people hesitant about thinking this will be a Giants blowout: they will lose this game if they play like they did in San Francisco. Aside from the near-interceptions I already mentioned, the Giants scored 10 points off fumbled punt returns. A team is lucky if they score 10 points off fumbled punt returns in a whole season, and the Giants got that in one game. The Giants point total from their other 15 offensive drives against the 49ers: 10 points. That's not good enough.
eli isnt elite yet still in the 2nd tier of nfl qb's but if he wins he'll officially be elite. Hes has made some impressrive throws right before he gets sacked, this is by far his best year. better then brady in any catagory is syill a stretch.
Die-hard Giants fan here, but if it's comparing the ENTIRE season it's got to be Brady in a landslide. If you are talking only the last month, Eli has definately outplayed Tom. San Fran's defense is so much more dominant and talented than New England's, Eli played pretty well considering he was getting the crap beat out of him the whole game. Brady played well too, but he turned the ball over twice. And he obviously dominated Denver, but if the Broncos offense doesn't run the ball and control the clock their defense gets exposed for what you saw two weeks ago. And I don't buy the lucky stuff, because Tom Terrific threw four up for grabs last weekend. You can say a QB is lucky when defenders drop interceptions, but there's a reason corners play defense. They can't catch.
San Fran's pass defense is actually average (16th in the league). The Giants won that game exactly how they had to: by showing the run just enough to keep the pass defense honest, and then picking them apart with short-to-mid-range passes. Let the defense handle the rest against a below-average offense. 316 yards passing for Eli isn't exactly a great game when it takes 58 pass attempts. Like I said, without the help of short field position thanks to two inexplicable 49ers special teams turnovers, the Giants offense scores 10 points in that game.
The Patriots, on the other hand, were playing a Ravens team with the #4 pass defense and #2 run defense, and their offense scored 23 points in spite of two Brady interceptions. Each of the Patriots five scoring drives in that game took at least 10 plays and moved the ball a minimum of 50 yards. I expect at least that output from the Patriots offense against a Giants defense that is improving but still not comparable to the Ravens -- I just don't think that's going to be enough to overcome the Patriots awful defense.
The Ravens have been getting run on all postseason. I am not a stat guy but that great Baltimore defense only faced one team in the top 10 in offense and San Diego blew them out 34-14. And I don't care who the QB is, if you throw it 60 times you are usually losing. Alex Smith and the Williams kid are the only reasons the Giants are still playing, the 49ers front line had Manning on the ropes and the running game did nothing. And San Fran's claim to fame is stopping the run and forcing turnovers, not dancing out of the tunnel and living off their past. Eli got hit 20 times and t threw it 60 and never turned it over, it's impossible to say Brady had the better game last week against similar opponents. Brady stunk it up at home under slightly above-average duress, while Manning played ok on the road in a rainstorm against a comparable defense that puts more pressure on the passer. If it wasn't for last week no one picks Eli in this argument, I guess it depends how you view the 49ers. After the last two weeks I think their defense is legit top-5, and using the eyeball test from last few weeks I can't say the same about the Ravens.
"The Ravens have been getting run on all postseason."
The Ravens only played one other game in the postseason, and I'd say their defense was very respectable against the Texans. They held the Texans below their average offensive output and forced four turnovers. They gave up a lot of running yards to Adrian Foster, but he also had a lot of rushing attempts. The Ravens were up big early in the game, so making the Texans beat them with the run instead of the pass was part of the plan after the 1st quarter.
"And I don't care who the QB is, if you throw it 60 times you are usually losing."
Teams that throw it that much are usually trying to come from behind and are passing the ball to try to get the quick score and keep the clock from running. You're right, these teams usually lose. The Giants were passing that much because the 49ers have a great run defense but a mediocre pass defense, and the Giants running game is nothing to brag about. They knew going into that game that they would have to throw the ball a lot to win. It was actually a mismatch in favor of the Giants, because the 49ers greatest strength on defense (stuffing short yardage runs) was met by a Giants team that doesn't have a good short yardage runner and is just as likely to pass on such plays. Manning did do an excellent job under pressure and avoided interceptions from a pass defense that likes to gamble (example - Donte Whitner's entire career), and mother nature helped out by not bringing the strong rains that many were expecting.
I'm not saying Brady had a better conference championship game, I'm just saying their games are a lot more comparable than people realize. Brady had fewer passing yards, but averaged over a yard better per attempt despite having no passing plays go for 25+ yards (Manning had two 30+ yard pass plays). Factoring in the defenses they were playing actually works in Brady's favor, because he was facing a defense that was much better at stopping the pass while still being very respectable against the run. When the 49ers and Ravens played this season not only did the 49ers not score a touchdown, they didn't even get the ball into the red zone. The Ravens D doesn't get the same press as the 49ers because the Ravens defense does this every year.
Brady is verging on the best ever. If he wins this weekend he's right up there. Joe Montana and four superbowls is still my favorite, but I grew up watching him.
Eli is one of the best QBs in the league. His total body of work is improving. I think he's elite.
The Ravens are a very good defensive team, I'm not arguing that point for a second. But a great defense doesn't allow 115 yards per game on the ground in the playoffs. All Baltimore wanted to do against Houston was stop Arian Foster, and he still ripped them apart. "..Baltimore does this every year" is the reputation I was talking about, no one gave them as much credit this year because they didn't deserve it. They played a bunch of average to below average offenses this season. And saying Alex Smith couldn't get into the red zone against them doesn't exactly make a strong case, because Alex Smith is not good. Besides the two big scoring plays to Vernon Davis the 49ers don't sniff the end zone last week either. Not trying to compare the Giants to the Ravens, because Baltimore's back seven if head and shoulders (and maybe even most of a torso) ahead of New York's linebackers and corners, but the Giants only send 3-4 guys and get the same pressure as Baltimore's 4-6 man rushes.
Brady played two home games against inferior opponents, and Eli went into Lambeau (and beat the newest best QB alive) and a rain-soaked Candlestick where the Giants did nothing on the ground (what else is new) and was the best player on the field. I know Brady threw SIX touchdown passes against the Broncos, and that alone in the playoffs is remarkable, but how many other teams blew Denver out when the Tebowner went soft? And if the Giants got lucky from special teams..so what? Billy Cundiff missed a 32 yard field goal or the Pats might be watching this Sunday. When evenly matched teams play luck is alot of times the deciding factor.
At this point you can't go wrong with either, though Eli is more likely to have a complete stinker. But I feel like at this point Brady is more likely to under-perform in a big game before Eli does. That has alot to do with the talent level around Brady though, including on the defensive end. He is easily doing the most with the least.
I agree with a lot of these points. One thing I do believe is that Peyton Manning has been more valuable over his career than either Eli or Brady. I'm not convinced he'll play again, but he's done the most with the least for over a decade. Thinking back over his career and the only handful of guys on his team who were even above average (Jeff Saturday, Bob Sanders during that one season when he was healthy... and then Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison who were certainly above average but were made a lot better by Manning's ability), I'm confident Peyton is the greatest QB of all time.
That's a tough argument, when you consider Peyton's constant choking and the fact he plays indoors, but when you look at the big picture it's hard to deny you are correct. For anyone that scoffs and says "Brady has 3 rings, Peyton has 1 and he sucked that postseason"...well, they are right too. But if they take a second and just look at the top-10 all time in catches, there is one awfully strange name on that list: Marvin Harrison. Every other guy is a physical freak! Harrison ran great routes and had good (but overrated) hands, but he's just another guy in most other offenses. He was like Wes Welker is for the Pats, mostly a product of who's throwing him the ball with some IQ mixed in. Peyton carried crappy teams to double-digit wins year after year, both Brady and Eli have had good-to-great defenses and legit outside weapons. I'd give Peyton the MVP this year, no one showed more value to their team than he did.
Not to get too far off the subject, but to touch on that Peyton interview on ESPN for a second...His confidence is totally shot. He doesn't even seem like the same guy anymore. He reminds me of Tiger Woods after his pornstar bangfest became public. He has no idea how to handle interviews, how to carry himself, how to talk to people. He's used to walking around like the king of the world (or Indianapolis anyway), now he's not even sure his half-drunk owner will keep him around for another month. Tough situation for him.
If you look at just Peyton's postseason stats and ignore what the rest of the Colts did, he's only slightly worse in the postseason than the regular season, which should be expected because on average he's facing better defenses in the postseason.
Peyton's completion percentage and yards per catch are about the same, and his passing yards per game is actually 20 yards more in the postseason, which probably indicates the teams they play in the postseason have better than average run defenses so the Colts have passed more. His 29/19 touchdown to interception ratio in the postseason isn't terrible, it's just not as good as his 2:1 ratio during the regular season.
Despite his reputation as a choker, Peyton actually has a better postseason QB rating than Eli or Tom Brady. He's just never had a decent team to back him up. Marvin Harrison might be the worst "all-time great" receiver in history. He was a run-of-the-mill receiver on a bad team in the pre-Peyton era, then his numbers basically doubled when Peyton arrived. Has any player from the Colts in the past 15 years gone on to have success with another team? I'm convinced the Colts have been a 2-win-per-season team for a decade and a half, and Peyton was the only thing boosting them up and getting them those extra 10 wins each year.
Brady is too soft under pressure and succeeds only because of the system that he is in. Look at many of the former Patriots that have left, can you honestly say that they had the same success outside of Belicheck's orbit? I think not. The only one with mild success was Mike Vrabel, but his age made him expendable.
Eli may be clutch at the moment, but I am not sure that he could succeed without a great defense to take the pressure off of him. His career has been mediocre without a dominant pass rush on his defense.
I'd take Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees over both of them any day.
I personally think Brady is tainted because of Bellichick's cheating. I'd like to see him do hat he does on a different team and see if he can keep it up. But that will never happen.
DB: I feel like that might be slightly over the top, but your overall point isn't lost on me. Could they have won 4-6 games if they didn't have Curtis Painter or Dan Orlovsky starting? Probably, but that was about their ceiling. Instead of building a real football team, they built a track team that could never run the ball to hold leads (every back in that system was/is a product of teams scared to death of Peyton throwing), and a defense that could only play with a lead. He is exactly what Skip Bayliss (unfortunately) says he is: the best regular season QB of all time.
And I know the postseason numbers look OK, some even good, but can you honestly look back and say he was great in any of those games (not including the Pats comeback)? I guess that's the how-you-see-it part of it though, because you can come right back with: no running game, no high-end receivers, no run-stoppers on D. And that is a completely valid point that is hard to argue against. But he still seemed like he was feeling too much pressure when it mattered most. Can't totally blame Peyton for Indy's playoff peformances, but can't totally absolve him either.
Let's be honest though: Eli would be dead in the water with that team. Brady would survive and probably flourish, but not to the point Peyton has. His IQ is second-to-none, and I don't think Brady could be quarterback AND offensive coordinator of a 10-14 win team for 10 straight years.
by I am DB Cooper 6 years ago
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