Large Hadron Collider / CERN

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   Scott Mandrakeposted 15 years ago

   After reading so much feedback on the global warming issue, I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this Large Hadron Collider thing going on in Switzerland.  Apparently they are trying to make little black holes and the like.  Must be important as they have so far spent billions of dollars on this machine. 
   Your thoughts please
   
   Scott

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      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Science is trying to find the building blocks of this universe.A particle accelerator ,the purpose is to break down a particle into its smallest parts.What is the essence which permeates the cosmos.The problem I believe is that the essence of god can never be captured by any instrument. Our thoughts materialize into objects.

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   Dame Scribeposted 15 years ago

   I read about that too. I thought it was cool. The idea of creating a black hole that would engulf the earth is a scary thought though. If they tested it already and there is no after effects I would have to assume it's ok but I don't see the point of experimenting on the planet. Why not use a real one? even if it is light years away. Probes or drones can be used for that and they cost a few million $$ too. I just don't want to see our planet endangered since we have nowhere else to go.

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   Pestposted 15 years ago

   I have been watching this for a while.  I hope that many unanswered questions can be addressed.  Many, many questions are poised to be answered as well as new questions asked.  Quantum physics and theory may actually become a more accepted part of science due to this super collider.  I can't wait.

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   Scott Mandrakeposted 15 years ago

   They did attempt to use this large hadron collider in September 08 but that resulted in a rather catastrophic failure in the equipment.  The next experiment is scheduled for spring 09 last I heard
   
   Scott

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      Pestposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yup, this is new ground. and hopefully eventually the kinks will be worked out.  Much like the space program, there were set backs right along with success.  i liken this project to be the same.  Just my opinion.

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   Scott Mandrakeposted 15 years ago

   I just did some searching for some non-wiki info on the large hadron collider.  I found this neat blog.
   
   http://grimsguide.wordpress.com/2008/11 … de-to-lhc/
   
   Scott

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   knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

   "What is the nature of dark matter and dark energy, a.k.a black-hole?"
   There is no dark matter and no dark holes. Since the universe is expanding at ever increasing speed, these are necessary to explain why it hadn't already flown apart apparently. There is no expanding universe.

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   Scott Mandrakeposted 15 years ago

   I read something to support that statement in Divine Proportion: Phi In Art, Nature, and Science by Priya Hemenway, saying that the universe was finite.  Being approximately 33 some odd billion light years across and shaped like a dodecahedron. 
   
   Scott

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      Pestposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      This may be true, but my pea brain sees the universe as infinite.  If i have to count passed my fingers things get really out of hand for me.  I am fascinated with the universe and all that it has to offer as far as knowledge.  I am hoping this collider will answer some questions or at least prove some old theories.  33 Billion light years baffles me!  We are but an atom in the infinite organism that is our universe.

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   naslund26posted 15 years ago

   It seem the Hadron Collider has had major problems with the electromagnitisim device system dew  to heat problems, the magnets were  heating up to  dangerous levels, so the project had to be shut down,Note there are 16km of collider involved needless to say its posponed for now. But what a greay idea to collide particles to try to see the creation of the big bang and the possible creation of black holes and there devistating affect on the universe, i think we will learn alot with many unsespected suprises.

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   moshiyaposted 15 years ago

   Hi every one,
   
   while searching the net i came across his hub
   and what scott said,  read something to support that statement in Divine Proportion: Phi In Art, Nature, and Science by Priya Hemenway, saying that the universe was finite.  Being approximately 33 some odd billion light years across and shaped like a dodecahedron. 
   
   is it not special that the deeper they go into everything the more it seems to fit de descriptions
   given by for instance Tesla,pythagoras,eliphas levi and others an ancient knowledge.
   
   about the HAdron collider, they play with fire, they have this theory that the sun is a nucliar
   reactor many degrees higher in its core then the outer surface, , while infra red cameras, which show sun spots to be black( meaning colder)
   they also are like windows looking inside the sun.

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    JYOTI KOTHARIposted 15 years ago

    It is like playing with fire but many researches in the past were like so and objected by many. If we fear, we can not progress.
    
        Jyoti Kothari

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    SparklingJewelposted 15 years ago

    It's not too intelligent to mess with Mother Nature to the glory of our own intellect. There are much more important things to be spending billions on and using our minds for.

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    lbtraderposted 15 years ago

    When i started looking into CERN's LHC i was amazed by the immensity of the project. Upon further research i realized that they are just one such operation looking for the grail of creation and the power behind this dark matter. In Ontario, Canada there is a man made cave several thousand feet below the surface called the Neutrino Lab that is kept cleaner than any operating room for the sole purpose of studying small particles that mean so little to the rest of us. Meanwhile while the scientists are researching in this dungeon of chance, the regular miners are being sent home due the lack of demand for metals that have been stockpiled during the recent years.
    
    It's the faustian thing again where knowledge is the rule and the rest of humanity are simply serfs to provide the labor. Check out the statements from Tolkien about the Ring epic where he hints that the adventure may be based on more than fiction.
    
    The CERN project is on my list of "there's insanity if i ever saw it". On that list is also the HAARP project in Alaska, the Star Wars program, humanoid robots mixed with bio and nano technology,  along with many others.
    
    Face it..humanity is doomed....faust sold is soul to the devil for knowledge and LHC is a product that results from the combined efforts of genius men of knowledge. And should it succeed in exploding a particle and creating a "small big bang" then that's really great news for scientists and academics but it means little to the rest of us.
    
    And life will go on and the faustian attitude will continue to rule to the point were eventually one of these projects stemming from the intellect of "men of savant" will create a big bang in one form or another that will explode humanity into the recesses of Hades or the underworld.
    
    Sometimes i think that that is the entire meaning of life. Maybe we are simply an alien experiment genetically manipulated by some overlords - aka demi-Gods - stationed somewhere up in space.
    
    Think of the movie "rat race" where the race is only there to entertain another group of beings.
    
    In the case of the overlords we are just here to entertain another group of beings.
    
    We are not the main event but just a commercial to hold them over until the real movie comes back on.
    
    You asked....i commented.....lol
    
    
    “    
    
    A science is said to be useful if its development tends to accentuate the existing inequalities in the distribution of wealth, or more directly promotes the destruction of human life...
        „
        — G. H Hardy, A mathematician's apology (1941)

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       packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well actually it does mean a lot to us all. It is not just about creating some tiny black holes and seeing it disappear in thin air with some spark. Billions of dollars hasn't been spend to see such fireworks. Scientist aim to create a mini big bang and thereby try to get the answers to all the questions about time and space, about our existence etc etc. But maybe this kinds of knowledge is of no materialistic value to common people like me and you. However we are forgetting one important thing that using this experiment scientists also aim to produce Antimatter which in future could solve all the fuel problem of the world forever. I guess that will definitely mean a lot to us!

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       Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       For sure "there's insanity if i ever saw it".
       
       Austria is pulling out of the CERN project.  I hope they all do.

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          packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Could you please explain the insanity involved?
          
          And please do not quote the whole comment if it is not required. Quote only those part of the comment that you want to point to. This will save a lot of disk space on the Hubpages server. Just spreading the concern created by one of our fellow Hubbers in a thread here. Unfortunately I do not remember his name!

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             Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I'd say lbtrader made it very clear.  That's why I quoted him and included his whole comment.

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                packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I had replied to lbtrader in my earlier post explaining to him, how it is not insanity. http://hubpages.com/forum/post/196608

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                   Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Here's another explanation from Dr. Walter L. Wagner.  He thinks it's insanity too.
                   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZAQn-KxW_k

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                      packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Saw that video but I believe that the concern shown there is mainly based on the speculation. Moreover they say that a black hole maybe created and it will start eating up everything up but the thing is every black hole has a critical mass associated with it and the moment it sucks that much amount of mass it will get destroyed. Since the black holes created there will be of microscopic size hence tiny air particles will be enough to destroy it. I do not think it is a dangerous stuff as projected by the media.

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                         mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         every black hole has a critical mass -isn't it the star which has a critical mass and not the black hole?

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                            packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            I guess a black hole has that too. I had read it sometimes back about it but unfortunately I do not remember the source and hence at this point of time I cannot prove my point .
                            
                            If this concept of critical mass not be accepted I can still prove that black holes created in CERN will be harmless. I can prove my point based on the concepts Hawking radiation and the event horizon

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                               mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               I dont think a black hole can have a critical mass.

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                                  packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                  So if that be the case then a microscopic black hole created out of the bombardment of two subatomic particles can keep sucking things and eventually the whole world will be sucked in? Is that true??

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                                     mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                     We dont understand a blackholes propely and yes we have huge black holes sucking in a lot in our universe and they can merge together and suck in even more.

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    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    No money in a stable state universe. No new theoriies to make one scientist after another rich and famous. No books to sell, movies and Novas to make,
    conferences to give, donations to science etc. etc. New forever nonsense theories are an industry like everything else, mostly derived from the tax-payers. Enjoy the theories for the fun, but maybe not necessarily take them seriously, and pad one's own intellegence ratio with the knowledge of same.

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    livelongerposted 15 years ago

    I think inquiries like these are beautiful. Existence is a riddle so complex that we can only understand it in bite-size pieces. If we're not here to understand the nature of existence, then why exactly are we here?
    
    No mistake that science fiction is the province of philosophical inquiry nowadays.

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       RKHenryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Very well said.  I concur.

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    Pete Maidaposted 14 years ago

    The production of anti-matter at CERN was a key element in the movie Angels and Demons.  I wrote a review of the movie but I won't get anyone mad by plugging that further.
    
    Anti-matter would be a great source of energy, far greater than anyting we have now.  It would make oil as primitve as rubbing sticks together.

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       Will Apseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Many of us enjoy rubbing sticks together. I will write a hub about it. The Cheapest Entertainment for a Dry Day in the Woods.

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    Drwibbleposted 14 years ago

    Don't forget the other technologies which get developed on these massive projects.
    
    "Tim Berners-Lee is credited with having created the World Wide Web while he was a researcher at the European High-Energy Particle Physics lab, the Conseil Européenne pour la Recherche Nucleaire (CERN), in Geneva, Switzerland. A tool was needed to enable collaboration between physicists and other researchers in the high energy physics community."
    
    Now everyone with a PC is able to communicate and exchange ideas with other across the globe.
    
    who knows what new ideas and concepts will be developed on these projects to the betterment of humanity

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       packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       That is what research is all about, trying out things. It is not like commercial concept where you put in money and you expect to get the result in a stipulated time. You have to have patience. There have been so many failed research but that does not mean they were a waste, we still learn from them! This project however, I think will not be waste because scientists know what they are running after! Hope to see a better future soon!

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    I believe the LHC will provide some answers to questions on which to base many new medical and other scientific solutions. These types of developments are long term and may provide one opening to an exciting future with less suffering for humans.

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    tksenseiposted 14 years ago

    That would suck

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    diplessposted 14 years ago

    mohitmisra is right we do have huge black holes in the centre of the galaxy. However the black holes which MAY be created at the LHC will not be black holes in the classical sence. They will be quantum black holes, and as mohitmisra quite rightly put it we do not understand these in any detail yet because hawkins equations break down when the entropy in a system is this small . However it is expeted that these black holes will have be tiny and have such a high velocity that the risk is close to 0, because they can't accrete a dangerous amount of mass before disapearing out of existence.

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       packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well this is exactly what I want to say..... and hence let the experiment continue

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    Make Moneyposted 14 years ago

    The problem is these scientists do not have the right to put the whole world and 6 and a half billion people in jeopardy when they are not even sure what will happen themselves.  No wonder Austria pulled out of CERN.

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       packerpackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       They maybe unsure of the particles that will be produced but definitely they are sure that the world will not be destroyed.
       
       So far Austria pulling out of the project is concerned, is it known what was the exact reason for the same. It could be that they cannot afford such huge amount spend in the experiment.

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    diplessposted 14 years ago

    The world is full of risks and some are worth taking, if you way up the potential benefits vs the potential risk...virtually 0 then it has to be worth it.

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    diplessposted 14 years ago

    Good point well made!

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    soni2006posted 14 years ago

    It is for sure that world will not be destroyed with the experiment of Large Hadron Collider by CERN.

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