One for Paarsurrey

1. 60

   Disappearingheadposted 12 years ago

   Paar says Islam is a peaceful religion.
   
   Qurans says:
   Qur'an:9:5     "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
   
   Paar, please resolve this contradiction without blaming "Cunnning Paul". I'm so confused.

   replyreport
   1. 51

      paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Please quote some verses preceding and som following and then ponder on them intently; you will be amazed to note that the verses are very rational and peaceful.
      
      Prove your viewpoint from the verses in the context; please, if you may like it.
      
      I have not blamed Paul here. Did I?

      replyreport
      1. 80

         earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         I'm so glad you didn't dis Paul at all!

         replyreport
         1. 59

            dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Good one Earnest!    lololol
            
            when will he learn that God if this story, tale, is True, then He (God) only, and I mean only created Humans, "NOT" religion!
            
            what a Man made mess!

            replyreport
      2. 60

         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Paar there is nothing peaceful in the verse I quoted even if the preceding and subsequent verses talked about flowers and little furry animals.
         
         How many times will it take for people to quote the violent passages of the Quran before you stop spinning the line that Islam is peaceful?
         
         Your answer here proves you continually avoid the issue.
         
         The reference to 'cunning Paul' is Tongue in cheek. This is one of your tired phrases with no credibility.

         replyreport
         1. 80

            earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Just to keep things honest here, the bible has the same sort of threats throughout as well. Only a few less times.
            Whenever I quote from it I get told it is "out of context" by believers. Let's not be hypocritical.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I'm not going to dispute with you Ernest. The bible has its violent verses in the OT.
               
               The more I read Quranic verses quoted here though the more I get the sense that what is quoted came from muhamed's own head heavily influenced by his penchant for spilling infidel blood. So word of Allah. I think not.

               replyreport
               1. 51

                  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  See for yourself by quoting the verse in question, with the verses in the context; no compulsion however.
                  
                  Let everybody know the truth whatever it is.
                  
                  I don't understand as to why it becomes so difficult for one. Anybody

                  replyreport
               2. 80

                  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The quoran like the bible, is quite clear as to how this "god" treats those who don't follow it.

                  replyreport
                  1. 51

                     paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Muhammad and Moses were peaceful and peace promoting people and so were the Word revealed on them by the Creator-God Allah YHWH.

                     replyreport
                     1. 80

                        earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Sat whatever you like, you can't erase the thousands of hate verses in either book, the only thing to do is to lie about them and pretend they are written in invisible ink.

                        replyreport
                     2. 51

                        paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        replyreport
         2. 51

            paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Then please quote the verse in question, with the verses in the context; no compulsion however.
            
            Let everybody know the truth whatever it is.
            
            I don't understand as to why it becomes so difficult for one. Anybody

            replyreport
            1. 80

               earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               The quote thing has been done often enough for all to see the truth. Islam is a violent religion based on the violence taught in the quoran.

               replyreport
            2. 70

               Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Hey Paar, you stated in another forum thread to quote any single versus that shows Islam is not a peaceful religion. You have been given it.
               
               I told you in the other forum thread that if someone gave you one, as YOU ASKED, then you would ask for other verses and claim that the verse was out of context, and that the person isn't presenting it properly.
               
               Therefore, you are dishonest. Proven by your actions here. Thank you for showing your true self.

               replyreport
2. 0

   jomineposted 12 years ago

   He won't answer direct questions

   replyreport
   1. 51

      paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And as you guessed; I do answer here.

      replyreport
3. 51

   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   Just an assumption of the atheists agnostics skeptics; they fail to prove it scientifically and religiously.
   
   Like always they are in doubt

   replyreport
4. 51

   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   Teachings of Krishna, Buddha,Zoroaster, Moses ,Jesus and Muhammad were from the same Creator-God and were peaceful in origin and essence.

   replyreport
   1. 95

      wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Might I suggest, Paar, that you repeat the OP quote with preceding and following 5 verses with an explanation and description of how they are peaceful?  This would certainly supply the requested conflict resolution asked for in the OP.
      
      As is, the OP has made a reasonable request of our resident expert to explain a seeming contradiction (and one that I find very confusing myself) but your replies so far are simply to "figure it out yourself".

      replyreport
5. 51

   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   I answered the OP.
   The ball is in the court of Disappearinghead; or in anybody's court who opts to come forward, at his own free will.
   I will help
   
   Perhaps they don't have online link for Quran; they may use the following if they like:
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/index.php
   
   Just to facilitate my friends here

   replyreport
   1. 0

      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Just adding love them above and below, will not make, kill and ambush them, non-violent.

      replyreport
   2. 95

      wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "Please quote some verses preceding and som following and then ponder on them intently; you will be amazed to note that the verses are very rational and peaceful"
      
      To paraphrase your explanation from above (quoted here): "Post the verses, think about them, and understand they are peaceful".  Or "Figure it out yourself". 
      
      I, at least, do not find this particularly helpful.

      replyreport
      1. 51

         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I appreciate your view point.
         
         I think in a discussion it really helps if one first studies the root source intently.

         replyreport
      2. 60

         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Here goes paar. Eat this:
         
         
         Quran 9:1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
         9:2 So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
         9:3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
         9:4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
         9:5 Sahih International
         And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
         9:6 Sahih International
         And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
         
         Analysis:
         9:1 Allah is speaking against those Muslims who made peace with unbelievers. One would have thought making peace was a good thing.
         9:2 Allah serves notice that unbelievers have four months before he  seeks vengeance.
         9:3 if after 4 months unbelievers have not repented Allah will inflict painful punishment.
         9:4 those that are nice towards Mohammed and his mates are spared........for the tome being.
         9:5 kill them kill them all.
         9:6 those that kowtow to Mohammed will be spared. Carrot and stick. The carrot being Mohammed will not use the stick..........or the sword.

         replyreport
   3. 60

      thebrucebeatposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, the ball has been put into your court.  What a wonderful opportunity for you to teach people in the true word of the Qura'n.  Copy and paste the earlier passages and the following ones that clearly show your position of the misunderstanding that the provided verse suggests.  This is a chance to show your credibility as a teacher of the one true faith, and to shed the reputation as a troll that your constant unsupported posts have brought upon you.
      Take this opportunity and be a useful teacher of your position, not just an annoyance that brings further disrespect on your faith.  Prove yourself to be the expert you pretend to be, or be revealed as what you have been accused of - a troll.

      replyreport
      1. 95

         wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Paar says no; you must read the book yourself, think about it and understand it's pacifism.
         
         I did read the preceding and following passages and only came to the conclusion that it is a religion of hate and violence.  All non-believers to be killed; that the ones begging for mercy shall have an additional 4 months does not seem to change much to me as they are still to be painfully punished and killed.

         replyreport
6. 60

   qwarkposted 12 years ago

   Monotheism = "dimwitism"
   
   Why respond to "dimwitism?"
   
   I don't/won't.
   
   Qwark

   replyreport
   1. 76

      ginjill ashberryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      why oh why..

      replyreport
      1. 60

         qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         ..I think the reason you must ask this question, might be reason for me not to answer???
         Qwark

         replyreport
         1. 76

            ginjill ashberryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Maybe. And apologies for entering where i shouldn't.  It was the start of the debate that got to me. I'm sorry.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               ginjill:
               No apologies necesary.
               Nothing is being "debated" here.
               You didn't tell me why you asked: "why oh why.."
               You should never feel that, in the "forums," you are " entering where" you shouldn't.
               Everyone is welcome here.  :
               Qwark

               replyreport
               1. 95

                  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I dunno about that, qwark.  I don't really think Paar wants me here, I know Google hates me and when the Big G hates you, well...

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Hahaha ...
                     Hope lives eternal...:
                     Qwark

                     replyreport
               2. 76

                  ginjill ashberryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Phewwh.. Relieved .

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     :
                     Qwark

                     replyreport
7. 59

   Beelzedadposted 12 years ago

   LOL! Did anyone actually expect our onboard propagandist to answer questions? No matter what, he will run rampant over these forums breaking every rule and nothing will be done about it. Reporting him is a complete waste of time, as I found out.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      lizzieBooposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      why would you want to report someone because of their views? It is good to have these discussions. We learn so much. If it pains us to be a part of them, we can opt out.

      replyreport
      1. 51

         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for your comments.
         
         The propagandists of doubt cannot understand it; only because they are short of reason and arguments.

         replyreport
8. 64

   Greek Oneposted 12 years ago

   Qurans says:
   Qur'an:9:5     "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
   
   
   I have studied this verse intently and see no evidence of violence or conflict in it at all.
   
   The term 'fight and kill' is VERY vague can be taken out of context if not understood in its proper light.
   
   The term take them 'captive and harass them' is a common technique that I often deploy during foreplay with the wife.
   
   Similarly, "lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."  is a typical ploy used in the bar scene.  When I was single, the fellows and I would have a few shots of whiskey at the bar, and then 'lie in wait until last call and ambush the ladies for their numbers because all is fair in love and war"
   
   So leave Paar alone!

   replyreport
   1. 60

      qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Qwark

      replyreport
   2. 72

      mrpopoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      that made my day

      replyreport
9. 0

   Home Girlposted 12 years ago

   9:5 kill them kill them all.
   9:5 kill them kill them all.
   9:5 kill them kill them all.
   9:5 kill them kill them all.
   9:5 kill them kill them all.
   That's what they did on September 11, that's what they are plotting to do more, in the name of Allah YKW(you know what).

   replyreport
   1. 51

      paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Please read the verse with the verses in the  context.

      replyreport
      1. 80

         earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         and when you do, he will ignore it, or "prove" you wrong with his selective quotations from the book that he lives in.

         replyreport
      2. 51

         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         replyreport
         1. 80

            earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What happens then? Do all the hateful verses disappear in a puff of smoke? ;lol:

            replyreport
      3. 80

         earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Good idea homegirl, go get another thousand "kill them alls"
         Plenty to choose from!

         replyreport
10. 69

    IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years ago

    I think it more "human nature" to use threats as a way to control a crowd, and not so much of a godly vice as some would like to believe.

    replyreport
    1. 80

       earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       The funniest thing about religions is the propensity of their "omnipotent" god to be reduced to threatening followers and non followers alike with hellfire for not towing the line.
       
       If a god were omnipotent it would not need to threaten anyone ever would it?
       
       Unless the god is only a little bit omnipotent, like almost pregnant.

       replyreport
       1. 69

          IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I totally agree Earnest.  100%!
          
          Why would God need to threaten innocent people minding their own business?  That's not a God I want to follow or believe in.  Treating people in order to gain a following sounds eerily familiar....., dare I say it, it seems a little devilish even.

          replyreport
          1. 80

             earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I have yet to see one of these religions that was not stolen from something that came before it, which goes some of the way to explaining all the fear based motivation.
             
             The beliefs of the god in the OT are reflective of how very psychologically naive the thinking was.
             I guess they were unlikely to see the psychosis if they have no concept of what it was, so they constructed a sick god.

             replyreport
             1. 69

                IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                You know you make a very strong argument here, and bring out very valid points that most zealots prefer to overlook- "all in the name of God."  It's a vivacious cycle, this "in the name of God" beeswax, and it drives me crazy. 
                
                It's the same as when evang-lunics start telling people that they're going to hell, if they don't believe in Jesus Christ.  I'm always in the background, thinking to myself, "Say what?" and wondering how in the hell these people ever made it out grade school.  The very core of Jesus Christ is to be a disciple of God.  In other words, to be Christ-like.  Well Christ dedicated his life to the practices of;
                
                enlightenment, joy, peace, spirituality, love, giving, personal growth and personal sacrifices
                
                Not badgering people for petesake.  No!  He left that to Romans.
                
                But here we are now.....  more "Romanized" than the Romans with our constant badgering, greed, harmful intentions, and dishonest meandering.

                replyreport
                1. 80

                   earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Until we gain control of the fear responses of the primitive brain it will be as it ever was.
                   Mankind has not changed at the most important level since we lived in caves.
                   
                   It used to be the women wanted a man who could get meat, had a cave and wanted someone to bare his kids, didn't burn the meat and kept the cave clean.
                   
                   The modern mating game hasn't changed much. A woman wants a man who is driving a great car (can bring home the bacon)and owns a modern house (cave) and is virile.
                   The man wants what he did way back then as well.
                   
                   Many moons ago, (I think it was in the 60's or 70's) an interesting medical experiment was done to by-pass a part of the brain by using a galvanic probe. It taught us a lot about this fear driven process that causes us to disappear in to fantasy.

                   replyreport
11. 51

    paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

    All the incorrect irrational objections will disappear in the air

    replyreport
    1. 80

       earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Majik?

       replyreport
       1. 51

          paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          reality

          replyreport
          1. 80

             earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Reality?
             
             This is the reality.
             
             Qur’an 48:19 “He rewarded them with abundant spoils that they will capture. Allah has promised you much booty that you shall take, and He has made this easy for you.”
             
             If Allah couldn't scare you he could always bribe with other people's possessions!

             replyreport
             1. 51

                paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Whenever one quotes from Quran with some objections; to be honest, one should give some preceding and some following connected verses, so that one does not get incorrect meaning due to one's bias to this great Word revealed.Quran is a book of systems that the people of doubt individually and/or collectively cannot ever author.
                
                I give the connected verses:
                
                [48:12] Those of the desert Arabs, who were left behind, will say to thee, ‘Our possessions and our families kept us occupied, so ask forgiveness for us.’ They say with their tongues that which is not in their hearts. Say, ‘Who can avail you aught against Allah, if He intends you some harm, or if He intends you some benefit? Nay, Allah is Well-Aware of what you do.
                [48:13] ‘Nay, you thought that the Messenger and the believers would never come back to their families, and that was made to appear pleasing to your hearts, and you thought an evil thought, and you were a ruined people.’
                [48:14] And as for those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger — We have surely prepared for the disbelievers a blazing fire.
                [48:15] And to Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. He forgives whom He pleases, and punishes whom He pleases. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
                [48:16] Those who had managed to be left behind will say, when you go forth to the spoils that you may get them, ‘Let us follow you.’ They seek to change the decree of Allah. Say, ‘You shall not follow us. Thus has Allah said beforehand.’ Then they will say, ‘Nay, but you envy us.’ Not so, but they understand not except a little.
                [48:17] Say to the desert Arabs who were left behind, ‘You shall be called to fight against a people of mighty valour; you shall fight them until they surrender. Then, if you obey, Allah will give you a good reward, but if you turn your backs, as you turned your backs before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.’
                [48:18] There is no blame on the blind, nor is there blame on the lame, nor is there blame on the sick, if they go not forth for fight. And whoso obeys Allah and His Messenger, He will make him enter the Gardens beneath which streams flow; but whoso turns his back, him will He punish with a grievous punishment.
                [48:19] Surely, Allah was well pleased with the believers when they were swearing allegiance to thee under the Tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down tranquillity on them, and He rewarded them with a victory near at hand;
                [48:20] And great spoils that they will take. And Allah is Mighty, Wise.
                [48:21] Allah has promised you great spoils that you will take, and He has given you this in advance, and has restrained the hands of men from you, that it may be a Sign for the believers, and that He may guide you on a right path.
                [48:22] And He has promised you another victory, which you have not yet been able to achieve, but Allah has surely compassed it. And Allah has power over all things.
                [48:23] And if those who disbelieve should fight you, they would certainly turn their backs; then they would find neither protector nor helper.
                [48:24] Such is the law of Allah that has been in operation before; and thou shalt not find any change in the law of Allah.
                
                http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=20
                
                Now what is the objection, honestly? Please

                replyreport
                1. 80

                   earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Objection? Why would I need an objection?
                   
                   The words are here on the page now, copied by your very hand to provide all the objection any sane, free person could possibly need to flunk your whole belief system.

                   replyreport
                2. 59

                   Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Excellent point, let's look at your revealed words from your god:
                   
                   
                   
                   The words are self-evident and highly objectionable as they show a religion that teaches violence, not peace.
                   
                   Fighting, war, rewards of spoils, painful punishment, blazing fires for disbelievers.
                   
                   

                   replyreport
                   1. 51

                      paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Please quote minimum five verses preceding and five verses following and then prove your view point if your honest in your expressions.

                      replyreport
                      1. 84

                         psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         How has doing so ever changed the apparent meaning of the verse?  You keep saying this but it never seems to provide the context of 'no actually , I was just kidding.  Shower the infidel with kittens and kiss their feet'.

                         replyreport
12. 0

    Deborah Sextonposted 12 years ago

    Is this it?
    9:4
    Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
    
    9:6
    And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

    replyreport
13. 51

    paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

    Please quote verses in the context; and prove that these are not rational under the situation.
    
    I provide the URL:
    
    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/index.php

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       _____________________
       I posted the two verses because no one else did.
       
       I have nothing to say about it.

       replyreport
       1. 51

          paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks
          
          Any body else who has some objections on the verses; should quote the verses in context and prove his objection to be rational.

          replyreport
14. 51

    paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

    Greek One wrote:
    Qurans says:
    Qur'an:9:5     "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
    
    
    I have studied this verse intently and see no evidence of violence or conflict in it at all.
    
    Paarsurey says:
    
    And he is serious guy

    replyreport