So The Death Penalty Should be Abolished

1. 61

   theirishobserver.posted 12 years ago

   A father has been arrested for raping his six-month-old son and infecting him with HIV.
   
   Police say that Lenny Love, 29, from Silverton, Ohio, knew he had the virus when he raped his son in March.
   
   He was arrested on Friday and charged with two counts of rape, one count of felonious assault and one count of possession of marijuana.
   
   Police say he admitted the assault to them.
   
   He is being held at the Hamilton County Justice Center while he awaits trial.
   
   Police in Clarksville are currently hunting for a 28-year-old man who also knowingly infected a woman he met online with HIV.
   Joseph Daundrey Thomas confessed to the woman the following day after sleeping with her in May and told her he had done it before and once spent three years in prison for the crime.
   
   
   
   Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … z1R8HeijQf

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      DIYweddingplannerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'll do one lots better.  A 16 year old girl and 17 year old boy stopped at a convenience store for a coke.  When the boy ges back to the car, a strange man is in the back seat with a gun.  He orders the boy to drive to a secluded area where he ties the boy to a tree and rapes him.  When the girl freaks out, he shoots them both and leaves them for dead in the woods like animals.
      
      This was someone's son, someone's daughter.  They were children with their lives ahead of them. 
      
      Tell me why as a taxpayer I should support this person for the rest of his life while he lives out the rest of it in jail.

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         shoganposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Oftentimes, DIY, it's more expensive to go through the process of putting an inmate to death.

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            Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Bad argument, when the price shouldn't be levied on the taxpayer to begin with.

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               DIYweddingplannerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So I hear, Shogan, but I think inmates should be put to work doing something to make money for the government instead of take it from the government.   And Cags, I'm in 100% agreement with you on this. (Alert the media, did I just say that!)
               
               The particular lowest form of human life in question was executed by the state of Arkansas for another murder there.  It only took 14 years from the time of the murders to the execution.  I would rather have my money used for those 14 years knowing that he was going to pay for those crimes than pay for him to live out his life for the some 30-40 years he had remaining.
               
               We're not talking about people with consciences here.  They won't sit and reflect on what they've done while they're in jail and see the error of their ways.  They're like the child who gets put in time-out who can't wait to get up and do it again.

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               1. 71

                  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Hey DIY,
                  
                  http://hubpages.com/hub/Death-Penalty-C … man-Rights

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                  1. 78

                     DIYweddingplannerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Interesting hub, particularly the whanker in the comments section. Whoops, is that a bannable offense?

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                        Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Thank you DIY and yes, he was a bit ridiculous.

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               2. 76

                  shoganposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  DIY, I'm against the death penalty...I won't make a secret of it.  I have no problem whatsoever, however, with the idea of inmates put to work.  If they can pay back what they cost the government, I think that makes sense.  I don't think that there's any paying back for their crimes, though.  Ideas like qwark's (good to see you again, qwark!) just leave us as heinous as they were.

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                     qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Hi Shogan:
                     
                     Give me a time in our barbarous history when man hasn't been a "heinous" creature. You can't.
                     
                     It is much to late to try to make amends now.
                     
                     We've dug our hole and are preparing to try it out for size.
                     
                     In all other facets of "life," the weak don't survive.
                     
                     I'm not saying that our less fortunate, those that serendipitously were dealt an unfortunate hand and who are innocent and deserving of experienceing life should be destroyed. I'm saying that those who have been proven to be of no value to humanity because of their violent ways, should be dealt with permanently and with due haste.
                     
                     Qwark

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                     1. 76

                        shoganposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't want to make amends for the past.  I want to carve out the right direction for the future.  What more is gained by killing offenders than is gained by locking them up for life?

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                        1. 59

                           qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Shogun:
                           Much!
                           The most important gain is that we no longer have to care for the valueless which have become a drain on an already overstressed society.
                           
                           I am an imperfect human and I would seek revenge upon the murderer of a family member! The revenge I'd like, would be to allow my genetic barbarism to wreak havoc upon the body of one who took the innocent life of my loved one. I'd do it with no compunction experienced!
                           
                           There is nothing to be gained by nurturing a sociopathic murderer for 20-30 yrs until he dies a natural death, unless it is that we wasted money, time and compassion on one who did not deserve it, to placate the religious majority!
                           
                           To me, that would be a crime!
                           
                           Qwark

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                           1. 76

                              shoganposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              To be clear, I'm not religious in the least.  There are plenty of non-religious people who don't agree with the death penalty.
                              
                              I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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                                 qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 NP Shogan...:
                                 
                                 We agree to disagree...:
                                 
                                 Qwark

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            2. 59

               qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Correct Cags!
               
               It doesn't cost much to lay someone on a table and administer a couple deadly shots.
               
               What costs is the "appeal" process during which the condemned is fed, entertained, housed and bedded for 15-20 years at a cost of about 80 grand a year just for room and board at out of taxpayers pockets!
               
               I'm for Spanish dictator, Generalisimo Francos method i.e. if the defendant is convicted of a capital murder his execution is ordered for the next morning at sunrise.
               
               In the case of DIYweddinglanners instance, once the perp is caught, convicted and condemned to death, the SOB should die in the same manner the kids did: tied to a tree and a gay 300 lb man have his pleasure with him and then pop a couple'a "caps" in 'im and leave him to die hangin' on a tree!
               
               That's justice!!!  :
               
               Qwark

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                  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Nice to see we agree on something Qwark.
                  Actually, the pharma companies charge outrageous amounts for the drugs that are used during an execution, which is part of the argument that it is too expensive to execute vs housing them for their lifetime.
                  
                  Example: one drug alone is $20,000 and that's just one dose.
                  Agree again, the appeal process and the Judicial system is fraught with many errors and should be corrected, but that's truly another story aside from the main application of the sentence.
                  That would barbaric. However, I get the point. But, a more effective and efficient manner of the appeals process should be put into place, so things work better.

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                     qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     CAgs:
                     
                     I'm a "barbaric" trog!
                     
                     A 20 grand a shot doesn't come close to 80 grand a yr for room and board + attornys fees and administrative costs.
                     
                     Give me a time in human existence when man hasn't been "barbaric."
                     
                     His barbarism continues today!
                     
                     Now convince me that it wasn't an act of barbarism to rape and kill those kids DIyweddingplanner mentioned. Barbarism deserves barbarism!
                     
                     If I were in charge, Qwarks justice would be served!
                     
                     Qwark

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                        Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I am aware of that Qwark.
                        I get your point Qwark, but like I said, that is for only ONE shot of the three that are given.
                        Yes Qwark, humanity isn't even close to being civilized, but we do have to start somewhere, don't you think?
                        I get the point. I just hope you get mine.
                        I guess I should be glad "Qwarks" justice isn't truly being used.

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                           qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Cags:
                           
                           I think ya got me pegged...
                           
                           
                           Read it again...dangit! I said 20 grand a shot! arghhh
                           
                           
                           Too late to start, best prepare for the holocaust!
                           
                           
                           My point: barbarism deserves barbarism! Your point is wussified! :
                           
                           
                           Qwarks justice would be "biblical:
                           
                           "Matthew 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'
                           
                           Exodus 21:25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
                           
                           Leviticus 24:20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.
                           
                           Deuteronomy 19:21 Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."
                           
                           Christians would love me! 
                           
                           Qwark

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                           1. 71

                              Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Yet, almost every Christian is against the use of it. Go figure.

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                              1. 59

                                 qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 I've tried Cags, haven't figgered it out yet!
                                 
                                 I'm not a quitter but I think I will...
                                 
                                 Qwark

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                                 1. 71

                                    Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    

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      2. 66

         Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Because it costs more to execute him. Because nearly all civilized countries have outlawed the death penalty.

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            Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Which would be untrue. It would tell people that government needs to find a more cost effective and efficient way of doing it. So, your argument is voided.
            Really, what civilized country would you be referring to? Name ONE!
            
            There are NO civilized societies on this planet, as of yet.

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            1. 59

               qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Cags:
               
               "There are NO civilized societies on this planet, as of yet."
               
               Right on the money!
               
               2 thumbs up!  :
               
               Qwark

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                  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Thank you Qwark.

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                     qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     MP Cags! :
                     Qwark

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            2. 66

               Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               "The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases. This process is needed in order to ensure that innocent men and woman are not executed for crimes they did not commit, and even with these protections the risk of executing an innocent person can not be completely eliminated."
               
               http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42
               
               Moreover, many studies have shown that fear of the death penalty is not a deterrent to so-called capital crimes.
               
               Also, the use of DNA evidence has shown that many innocent individuals have been sentenced to death, and some have been executed.
               
               What civilized countries have abolished the death penalty? :
               
               137 countries have abolished the death penalty.
               
               http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

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                  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  So that would tell you there is something wrong with it, now wouldn't it?
                  This argument is moot, depending on the basis of my hub. So an innocent person wouldn't ever be executed.
                  Ralph, of course you are going to have plenty of studies that show that, only because it isn't applied properly. Otherwise, your argument again fails.
                  Which only shows the process is screwed up, nothing more. But, nice try.
                  And, NONE of them are civilized. Or did you miss that part.

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                     Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     When I was in college they offered a course called "Western Civilization." You may not considered them civilized but you are using the word to express your minority opinion.

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               Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               137 countries have abolished the death penalty.
               
               http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

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                  Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I have to partly agree with Cagsil, one of the lowest rated civilizated countries in the world, are English specking countries.
                  
                  Do I get any brownie points for that, Cagsil?

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2. 78

   DIYweddingplannerposted 12 years ago

   What he kept missing was that "drastic" applies to the initial crime.  When people choose to commit a crime, they must be prepared to give up their most basic human right, freedom.  And sometimes another basic human right, life.

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It depends on the crime. As my hub states, it should only be applied to specific criminals.

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         DIYweddingplannerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I agree, and care should be used.  The case in question was very cut and dry.  He got caught running and shot and killed the officer who pulled him.  This proved to be a blessing in disguise, because it was an automatic death penalty case after that.

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         1. 71

            Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't read the article(link). I'm just responded to the OP, as it is stated.
            On a case by case basis is how it should be applied. Just one person killing another person, isn't good enough to warrant the application, even if that single person is a police officer.

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      2. 75

         Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Cagsil
         It depends on the crime. As my hub states, it should only be applied to specific criminals.
         
         It is not too late, Cagisl can we use this system to enforce the death penalty upon the likes of George Bush?
         
         After all GW Bush and gang killed One million Iraqi, burn many villages to save the villages, wail operating on their soil, no Iraqi has killed an American on American soil. He also gave the death penalty to the Iraq President, why not give the death penalty to himself for killing many more people?. Even if we throw out the book of ethics, even the US eye for an eye justice REALLY SUCKS?
         
         Authority has killed more people than the criminal have. No, I say America is a horrible example for justice in domestic affairs and foreign polices
         
         Put murder to work camps in prison for life with only onces of freedom for good deeds. Because you never convince me that  killing will ever stop killing, it only shows who the greater hypocrites are.

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            Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Actually, what did Bush do? Was his actions actually committing treason? If so, it's not been proved.

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               Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               When Authority has killed more people than the criminal do, then what makes police so special of a human being from the rest of us? Also about 9 times out of ten, a solider is a murderer with a uniform on as war's today are more about the rich vs. nature.
               
               About half of married men have a sex affair on the side; I guess you must have a sex scandal to actually commit high treason toward the American people, mmm, not much hypocrites there, mmmmm..
               
               OK Bush is a pirate coinsurers of other countries for the hell of it, and not a murderer. Then why did Canada the UN, Pope, Dixie chicks and most countries disapproved of that Iraq war? Do you approve of the Bush Killings?

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                  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Your argument has no ground to stand on.
                  Another meaningless argument. It's your view that is wrong, which leads you to other wrongful conclusions.
                  Another meaningless argument. Man, do you even think before you type words into the screen?
                  Castle, take your head out of the sand long enough to cause a rational thought....I know it might scare you, but do it anyways.
                  A lot of people oppose war. What's your point? Or are you do just love hearing yourself talk, as you type the words?
                  
                  Actually, Bush didn't kill anyone. So you putting "Bush Killings", is just pure distortion coming from someone who lacks rationality.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Cagsil
                     
                     qwark  Man is just doing what comes naturally! He is a "natural born killer!"
                     
                     Bush, How dose he rate at killing innocent people, worst on my books
                     
                     Cagsil Why did you not use the typical name calling word ill rational _______statement that Christians and Atheist constantly use on each other? Are you my intellect superior? Or am I allowed here to learn some form of middle ground standpoint and share from these extreme topics.
                     
                     I’m against any ways of thinking so please, don’t talk down to me like my outside of the box thinking , is completely wrong. I can give reason for anything I say and do, unlike most people.
                     
                     Man, if I had to have an argument with even a faction of my business clients.  I would have been out of business 36 years ago and force to struggle like most people trying to pay their bills, let alone being a stateman too

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                        qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        CAstle:
                        
                        You are an artist...right?
                        
                        When you speak of business clients are you referring to your buyers of your art or are you in a another business?
                        
                        There have been many artists who were cantankerous, eccentric and not easy to get along with, but still sold their art 'cause they were great artists.
                        
                        So I'm not quite sure of what to make of your comment: "I would have been out of business 36 years ago and force to struggle like most people trying to pay their bills, let alone being a stateman too."
                        
                        if yer a mean SOB but yer art is fantabulous, being argumentative shouldn't hurt yer money makin'. :
                        
                        Qwark

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                           Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Don't become a victim. .. Libel or slander can damage a business's reputation to the point where it profoundly affects their ability ... I think arguments has more to do with poor design and ... Hey it's a compromise client's can get on board with in a realistic time frame. ...My business is like most business, you have a deep argument with a client whoever wins, it is most likely means, and you both lose
                              
                           As far as fantabulous arguments you could make money at the Monty Python department of arguments.

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                           1. 59

                              qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Hahaha....well, that had nuthin' to do with what I asked...but if yer satisfied...NP with me..
                              Qwark

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                     2. 71

                        Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        On defense of Qwark, which I don't do too often, he is talking about most about defending his own family with regards. Most people don't bother to look at the topic, based on their own family being one of the victims.
                        You're actually OFF topic. War isn't related to death penalty, so either get back on topic or quit posting. Your choice.
                        I am not a Christian nor Atheist, so I don't know why you would even make this statement. Again, it has nothing to do with the topic.
                        I don't consider myself superior to anyone and you should know that, but I guess you're having a problem staying on topic, much less anything else.
                        I don't know if you're capable of learning to begin with. So far, you've yet to address the topic of this thread, but you have managed to do a good job at putting distracted statements.
                        I am sure you can. The question is what value do you bring to the table and so far, you've not brought anything of value to this topic.
                        Well, if you used the method you have so far in this thread with your clients, then I'd be amazed you had any success with maintaining clients.

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                        1. 75

                           Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Cagsil
                           Killing is killing, domestic or aboard, Bush is fine example of both as he was listed in the Guinness world book records as having the most death execution as Governor of Texas’s. So no, I am not off topic.
                           
                           You state you are not superior to anyone, yet you state to me
                           
                           Your argument has no ground to stand on. Another meaningless argument. It's your view that is wrong, which leads you to other wrongful conclusions. Another meaningless argument. Man, do you even think before you type words into the screen? Castle, take your head out of the sand long enough to cause a rational thought....
                           
                           I can't imagine writing to anyone like that. It sounds like my mental capabilities could get me hit by a car by just crossing the road.

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                           1. 71

                              Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              
                              Utterly ridiculous.
                              
                              I swear, it is almost completely meaningless to try and have a conversation with you. You can never stay on topic. I'm done with you. Enjoy.

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                              1. 75

                                 Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 I've have heard that before.

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         2. 59

            qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Oh baloney Castle!
            
            You said:
            
            "Because you never convince me that  killing will ever stop killing, it only shows who the greater hypocrites are."
            Hypocritical? Are you kidding?
            
            Man is just doing what comes naturally! He is a "natural born killer!"
            
            There is no hypocrisy there!
            
            Nations have created methods to commit genocide on the magnitude of billions with one tap of a finger on a computer keyboard.
            
            The destruction of a few mentally malformed human animals whose existence has been proved to be detrimental to innocent citizenry is of no consequence to anyone but them.
            
            And I say good riddance!
            
            Qwark

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3. 60

   TLMinutposted 12 years ago

   Eye for an eye, I almost like it. In the OP, it seems the baby would have died, wouldn't that kill an infant? This is the guy that needs to die and ASAP.

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4. 60

   TLMinutposted 12 years ago

   For one, we wouldn't be seeing those signs along the road anymore that say, "Beware of hitchhikers, prison nearby".

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      

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5. 61

   theirishobserver.posted 12 years ago

   Is execution the answer

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6. 60

   Stump Parrishposted 12 years ago

   The costs of these drugs are simply price gouging by the drug companies. It costs no where near that figure in countries that allow assisted suicide. These drugs are quite humane. The fat that the drug companies are allowed to rape the country in athe country's efforts to kill a rapist is a crok of crap.
   
   How exactly do you decide which inmates on death row should be allowed into the general population?  None of them have anything to lose. Even if their life is saved, they will spend the rest of it in prison.How do you justify the additional murders that will result from the mixing of these inmates?
   
   I believe each person who dies at the hand of the state should go in the same manner as their victims. Might not stop many from committing mayhem but it will allow for some entertaining reality shows. Everyone knows how popular those are in this country.

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      qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Stump:
      
      I think you may know That I've written a hub on televised executions and my invite to join me in a "tailgate" party in my driveway to watch the execution. I'd even provide the beer! 
      
      Qwark

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         Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe we could help balance the budget by selling tickets and TV ads.

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            Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Hey Ralph, go to YouTube, look up George Carlin. He did a skit about it, quite funny, but actually quite realistic too.

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            qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            RAlph, thanks, you capitalist you   
            
            I'm such a nice. magnanimous man, that hey, I'd just wanna make folks happy and let 'em watch as a "freebee."
            
            I have a big heart! 
            
            Qwark

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         Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I must think opposite, do you know, Bush was listed in the Guinness world book records as having the most death execution as Governor of Texas’s
         
         I must say, Bush knew how to make people laugh, if Bush was lock up for life, I would pay to see his comedy routine in prison work camps.  He has a wealth of one liner, like one of my all time favorite.
         
         “Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we. ...

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   Trish_Mposted 12 years ago

   Hello
   
   I find the crimes described truly despicable and distressing ~ and I think that, if anyone treated my loved-ones like that, I would probably want to go and kill them, myself.
   
   However, I would not want the death penalty to be re-instated in Britain. I am glad that it has gone. I consider it to be barbaric ~ and, by killing criminals, we would be bringing ourselves down to their level.
   
   I can understand people who disagree with me, but I have thought about this over the years and haven't yet changed my mind. Maybe I will be persuaded, one day.

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      Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Trish_M
      
      I agree
      
      If a person murdered my daughter, I would feel like killing that murderer myself, too. Yet, we cannot kill someone to prove to all of us, that killing is wrong.
      
      About 11% of the death penalty murder accused was innocent in the first place. The rate for capital punishment countries are at a rate much higher than countries without capital punish. If only goes to show you killing only increases killing, not reduces it.

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         Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It's not about proving to other people that killing is wrong. It is about holding people accountable for their atrocities on society.
         Your statistics are useless in today's day and age, because 97% of statistics are made up on the fly.
         Of course they would be. DUH!
         Actually, the only reason increases have happened is because of the improper use of it to begin with.

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            Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I would agree most statistics are made on the fly; many of my client want to know how much money they will make rather than to know how beautiful a sandcastle or a museum display would look.
            
            Imagine no statistic in a court room; every lawyer would be handcuff to the bench. Murderer, without a place, DNA, time or date, how much time they have killed statistic to pin them down, they would get OFF again and get to kill again.

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   Stump Parrishposted 12 years ago

   LOL Quark, I'll bring the chicken. You prefer it fried or injected?

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      qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The prisoner was led down the hallway to a door.
      
      A priest was counting beads and reading in latin the last rites.
      
      The stopped and opened the door.
      
      The prisoner saw 2 electric chairs above each was a sign:
      
                     YOUR CHOICE
               REGULAR OR EXTRA CRISPY!
      
      The priest fainted.
      
      Qwark

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         Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Sick, but funny.

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