Is Russia still not worth the effort in the Ukraine

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   Ericdierkerposted 9 years ago

   For isolationists and folks who want to avoid conflict no matter what: With Russia firing missiles from Russian soil into the Ukraine do you still want to remain "out of the conflict"?

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      CHRIS57posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      With so little worthless evidence on display from both sides (Russia and West), is it really the right question to start a discussion?
      Yes, of course, probably the Separatists shot down MH17 by accident. But what proof is there for direct involvement of Russia?  Same for Russian side, their press conference this week also doesn´t get you any further.
      The rest is pure propaganda, agitation. What are we to make of a statement that access to the site is restricted by the separatists if at the same time journalists are cought on camera while tampering with the personal belongings of the victims?
      What are we to make of statements that not all bodies being found and retrieved, implying that it is the fault of separatist forces. Certainly this touches heart and stomach of the people, not to mention relatives and friends. But then - compare this to Lockerby. It took years to find and recover all victims and there was no war going on.
      No - after looking at this tragedy and the mainstream media propaganda mess - there is no real clue to hold any party guilty. Certainly nothing that could propel confrontation. By the way, haven´t we learned anything from Sarajevo 1914?

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         Ericdierkerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I tend to believe that Russia actually fired missiles from their soil into the Ukraine.

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            Disappearingheadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Based upon what evidence?
            
            It's all a game really. For a couple weeks we'll get a load of wringing hands and face noise from the politicians. Putin will roll his eyes, make some unfounded accusations to keep his population happy. The West will talk about sanctions and a few business deals will be cancelled (put on the shelf for a couple months). Then when the media has sucked the story dry,  and the public get bored and move on to the the latest reality TV show full of vacuous wannabes which is nothing more than a vehicle for selling them sh1t they don't want or need, everything will be back to normal. Business will be resumed and one day we might wonder what happened about that airliner that was shot down.

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            CHRIS57posted 9 years agoin reply to this

            As you say: believe...
            There is a lot of believing involved in this.

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               Ericdierkerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               OK, to date Russia has not denied firing artillery from Russian soil. They denied shooting down the commercial airliner and accuse Ukraine of firing into Russia. They called everyone liars but they have not denied firing artillery into Ukraine.
               So yes I believe they did fire from Russian soil.

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      psycheskinnerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Given that nuclear war is still on the table, of course caution is still warranted.

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         GA Andersonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Seriously asked... Do your really believe a proxy battle such as the Ukraine situation could escalate into a nuclear confrontation between the U.S. and Russia?
         
         I don't, and am wondering why you think it could.
         
         GA

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   CHRIS57posted 9 years ago

   Things are not as simple as they may appear.
   I want to draw your attention to something almost untouched in the media. Russia has reorganized its military structure since the Kaukasian conflicts (last was with Georgia in 2011). This modernization involded among others the reduction of the officers corp. In other words, Russia kicked out hundreds of thousands of officers.
   What happened to these trained soldiers in a country with lots of economic problems of their own and high unemployment? I think it is not a wrong guess that many turned to become mercenaries.
   And, whatever their ethnic and religious background was, today they show up as skilled troups on the separatist side, some may also serve on the Ukrainian side (but not very probable because Ukraine doesn´t have money). If you look at other conflicts on this planet: How many of these jobless militia are fighting now for ISIS?
   So yes, Russia is involved, but very indirectly because they modernized their amy and left many skilled soldiers jobless.
   If you take this into consideration, a lot of bits and pieces start to fit: from soldiers capable of operating sopisticated war gear to the high number of voluntary fighters on the separatist side.

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