Russian missiles cross into NATO member Poland, kill 2 senior US intel
It looks like the war is spreading.
Russian missiles cross into NATO member Poland, kill 2: senior US intelligence official
Biden has promised to defend 'every inch' of NATO territory
By Liz Friden , Caitlin McFall | Fox News
Russian missiles flew over NATO territory and killed two people in Poland on Tuesday, a senior U.S. intelligence official told the Associated Press.
The Polish government has not immediately confirmed the report, but one spokesman, Piotr Muller, told the publication that top leaders were holding an emergency meeting over the "crisis situation."
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-m … e-officialThis is too hot to touch. Conspiracy theories are already out there. I must bring up Ken a couple of weeks back pretty much laid all this out. Just saying...
In my view, NATO will do nothing but talk this time around. And Joe will rely on the Old Boys Club NATO to be the fall guy.I don't want to say it...
I don't want to say it...
Yes I do!!!
I told you so.
So childish... I know.
One week after the election no less.
Who could have called that one?
Oh wait, that's right, I did!!!
When you've been part of the machine, and still know people who are part of the machine... its not hard to figure out.
This is the start of the reasons for the war with Russia.
They will be fully formed by the time Christmas is over.
2023 is going to be a fun ride.So, are you psychic? Gosh, your predictions are coming to light. I hope the one about inflation getting a bit better in the next year will come to fruition.
We really need to get this bunch out of the White House or at best slow them down.
And it appears, as you shared, the people of Ukraine as is their country are collateral damage that Biden does not give a dam about.
I've gone over the foxnews... And giving equal consideration on all sides of the story, a Conspiracy Theory, will anger either side and provoke the war further. But America, Russia, Ukraine, every nation, and pople are praying for peace, more than anything else, right? And so that WW3 will never see the light of the day. No, not in my life time.
From Reuters:
Nevertheless, NATO's chief said that Moscow, not Kyiv was ultimately to blame, for starting the war in the first place and launching the attack that triggered Ukraine's defences.
"This is not Ukraine's fault. Russia bears ultimate responsibility as it continues its illegal war against Ukraine," NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters in Brussels.OMG Ken, could have this been a purposeful mistake by Ukraine to try and start a war, that would bring in NATO/US and hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground? Oh sh--.
It could be, and with all the Russian equipment they have supposedly captured, they certainly could try to frame Russia, if they haven't already done so.
NATO row breaks out as Zelensky savaged for 'destructive lies' over Poland missile
NATO and Ukraine found themselves at odds at an urgent meeting on Wednesday, it has been revealed, as Volodymyr Zelensky said he had "no doubt" a missile that killed two people after landing in Poland near the Ukrainian border was not of Ukrainian origin. NATO, Warsaw and the US all said they believed the missile was "likely" fired by Ukraine in order to defend themselves against Russian missiles, with the alliance's secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg making clear that it was "not Ukraine's fault", as the firing of the missile was "the direct result" of Putin's invasion of the country.
But Mr Zelensky would not budge on the issue, insisting that a report he received from the incident left him certain that it was "not our missile or our missile strike".
His statements have reportedly irked at least one Kyiv-based diplomat from a NATO country, who told the Financial Times: "This is getting ridiculous. The Ukrainians are destroying [our] confidence in them. Nobody is blaming Ukraine and they are openly lying. This is more destructive than the missile."
NATO countries were called to an emergency meeting last night after a missile landed in the Polish village of Przewodów, near the Ukrainian border, during a mass air strike by Russia in which they unleashed over 100 missiles into Ukrainian cities, targeting civilian infrastructure.
The Kremlin denied responsibility for the missile, claiming that not only was the missile that struck Poland not theirs, their weapons had not targeted anywhere near the Polish border - despite multiple recorded instances of Russian rockets hitting Lviv, a Ukrainian city about 62 miles south of the village of Przewodów and only 50 miles from the Ukrainian border.
NATO, the US and Warsaw all declared that while initial reports suggested the missile was fired from Russia, they now believed the missile's origin was likely from Ukraine as a defensive measure against the Russian air strikes.
[END]
Here is the thing, I believe America wants into the war, I believe Ukraine wants America to enter the war.
But most NATO nations want nothing to do with that. And this may be a situation where some detective work by other NATO member states revealed this wasn't a Russian attack.
So American and Ukrainian reporting agencies had to back down from their claims that Russia was (accidentally or not) bombing Poland.
Poland I believe is the nation most likely to support a conflict with Russia, other than the US and UK, while other nations like Germany, France, Hungary, etc. want nothing of the sort... they want an end to the conflict, yesterday.It's interesting to see how the American media is handling this situation.
A Ukrainian media person in Canada, who knows far more about what is going on in the war than any other media person I can see, had an interesting take on things based on his sources.
According to him, NATO and the US don't want this war to escalate. The missile was from Russia, but Russia made a mistake and will not accept responsibility for it. So, the US and NATO got a promise from Russia to never let this happen again. The next thing they needed to do is to get Ukraine to admit it shot the missile. This would avoid the public outrage against Russia and the desire for NATO to get involved. According to him reparations for the incident are being paid to Poland and the families of those who were killed by...the US and NATO.
If you know anything about President Zelensky, he will not back down from the truth.
So, nothing will come of it. The war will continue. NATO and the US will avoid the responsibility of responding and getting involved.
Russia got away with it due to a lack of desire to hold them accountable. If it happens again, it would be interesting to see what occurs.So - is Zelensky more independend than we thought he was? (At least i thought he was?)
I believe he is a person who will not back down from what he believes is the truth and is willing to face the consequences.
People like Zelensky and Putin never face the consequences. The people that face the consequences are the soldiers that die of the drone bombs while hiding in a ditch and the Ukranian people who sit at home and have a bomb fall on top of their house and destroy them.
Mentioning President Zelensky in the same sentence as Putin is very insulting.
Putin is an evil being who invaded a sovereign nation with no provocation. His military has committed some of the most horrible war atrocities against the Ukrainian people. President Zelensky is doing what is necessary to defend his country.
If you can't see the huge and monumental difference between the two of them, that speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge concerning the war.If you are so infatuated with the image of Zelensky at this point that you are unable to see that he is just another politician that is your lack of knowledge, not mine.
"If you can't see the huge and monumental difference between the two of them, that speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge concerning the war."
I have friends and relatives who live in Ukraine. I've visited there several times. My grandparents on my father's side were both born in Ukraine. I've also helped many refugees from Ukraine. I know how President Zelensky is perceived by the Ukrainian people. They know him better than anyone outside the country.When I read your earlier posts about Ukraine I thought you were correct as you were concerned about the people. If you are just concerned about a politician that is a mistake. Telling me that he is supported by many of the people does not mean much, even dictators start out very popular.
Very good point.
The LIE that (Almost) Started WORLD WAR III
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs3Aw-0Pjfc
An insightful opinion piece worth considering.Interesting video. I was reading one of the comments from a Pole and he mentioned that 97% of the Poles knew that Zelesky was lying the first day. Do you know if this is true?
You are really swayed by the opinion of one person making a comment in a public forum as if it represents the feelings of an entire nation?
Sorry if you are not able to understand the comment, but I was not saying it is true. I was asking if he thinks it was true. Do you not believe that people should have the freedom to ask or should we just march along and accept anything that Zelenksy says without question?
Excellent strawman argument.
I point out how one person's opinion does not represent an entire nation and you twist it to mean I'm suggesting nobody can question president Zelensky.
Classic.So are you saying that you are now in favor of free speech on the subject? Zelensky can be questioned just like any other politician?
Deflection.
Another one of the well-known false argument narratives.
All of this started because I said one person's opinion does not represent an entire nation. You have done everything but address this.No, you are the one trying tô alter the argument. I originally pointed out that Zelensky and Putin were not the ones suffering, but you got upset that the two leaders were mentioned in the same sentence. If you have forgotten your original comment you can scroll up.
I disagree. It is pretty much worthless. Sad you believe it has value.
This is a battle of narratives.
The Russian Side:
"we didn´t do it"
The Ukrainian Side:
"It was a Russian missile"
The Nato side:
"We know Russian missile control is so much crap, it was a Russian missile. We know it, but lets not overreact. Lets just declare it a Ukrainian SAM missile. That will take pressure from Nato and at the same time not further humiliate Russia of them not being able to control their stuff. "
But then - like an email where you forgot someone in cc to inform him, Nato rushed out this narrative without putting Ukraine into the picture. Kind of upset Zelensky and now the whole matter is getting delicate.
What should be observed is Russian inital reaction: They only said "not us". Only after Nato narrative was out, they started to pick up the subject. Russia didn´t know: Was their missile shot down? Did it cause the incident in Poland? They also didn´t know if and where and when Ukraine SAMs were hunting."They also didn´t know if and where and when Ukraine SAMs were hunting."
Reminds me of Sergeant Schultz from the TV Show "Hogan's Heroes" and his saying , "I know Noooothing."That's a narrative you choose to believe.
I know it's not the correct one, but it doesn't really matter, this will soon escalate and America will enter into the war, dragging NATO along if it has too.Ken, USA going to war?
This narrative is very far, too far fetched. There is no 9-11, no oil threat to the USA involved. This is not 1991 or 2003. The Ukraine is far away for most Americans.
It is 20 years from the initiation of last hot conflict. Smart ammunition inventory has to be renewed ... but that is another narrative ...Well, America won't declare war.
We didn't against Iraq or anyone else in the last 50 years. Despite almost constantly being in a state of war against someone for the last 25.
There are only two conclusions this war ultimately has, Ukraine accepts the loss of Crimea, or America gets more involved in the war.
Otherwise there will only be a continuation, Ukraine is incapable of taking Crimea without outside support, and they have no ability to hold it if they do take it... without Russian artillery bombing them into oblivion.
The territory Russia has occupied and annexed are on Russia's borders, they will always be able to continue to bombard them. Ukraine doesn't have the means to force them to stop. Only America can do that.
Of course the truth is, the only reason why Ukraine can still fight this war at all is because of the hundreds of billions of dollars America has sent to Ukraine, and all the American military equipment and all the American military expertise within Ukraine operating that hi-tech equipment."Of course the truth is, the only reason why Ukraine can still fight this war at all is because of the hundreds of billions of dollars America has sent to Ukraine, and all the American military equipment and all the American military expertise within Ukraine operating that hi-tech equipment."
You'd probably be surprised to learn how much European countries and other countries around the world have contributed to Ukraine's freedom efforts. Most Ukrainian troops are now trained in the UK. If the United States was to stop all support, Ukraine would continue to fight with what the support they have.
Ukrainians will never give up.
Christmas, is around the corner. People are thinking about Jesus. Jesus Christ's birth day is foremost in the minds' of many people, even soldiers. For years during the WW2, Xmas couldn't be celebrate. Soldier on all sides began to think on it. The date in January was changed to December 25. And so Xmas has stuck to Decdmber 25, instead of January 5 and 6. Ken, America will not go to war. God forbid it. RMN America will not go to war. In January, 2 the Chinese, will be celebrating what is evidently Jesus' mistaken birth day that tally with the killing of two year old innocent children..
The fog of war.
You are going to believe what sources you choose to believe.
I'm going to believe my sources and my decades worth of dealing with military matters such as these.
Meanwhile... the search for WMDs continues in Iraq.Don't you agree if there was a real strong interest in getting the United States and NATO involved in the war; they would have taken advantage of this situation?
The United States has committed troops for some very questionable reasons in the past.
The Gulf of Tonkin incident comes to mind.I believe it is more complicated than that.
In order to get countries like Germany, France, Hungary, etc. to support direct action against Russian forces, even just in Ukraine, it would take a serious incident or two for the US/UK to be able to coerce those countries into supporting such a move.
There are only so many mercenaries and 'foreign freedom fighters' that they can bring in to fight this war on behalf of Ukraine. There are only so many Ukrainian's that can fight, eventually, if they are serious about taking back Crimea they will need to expend whatever forces they have that remain, and then hope like heck Russia doesn't bombard them into oblivion with artillery from within the borders of Russia.
Ukraine alone will not get Russia to cry 'Uncle"... this has always been the case, the "West" miscalculated when they thought they could crush the Russian economy in a timely manner. China, India and other nations have stepped up purchasing all the oil, gas and food Russia can provide.
This doesn't end for years without intervention from the US."Russia doesn't bombard them into oblivion with artillery from within the borders of Russia."
I don't think you realize how diminished russia's military is right now.
I think the discontent with the war from russian citizens is going to play a major factor in the future.It would be great if Russia's military was exhausted and incapable of being a threat.
I just don't believe it.
I t would be nice if discontent of the Russian populace was so bad it forced a regime change and peace could be pursued.
I just highly doubt we will see that.
I suspect there is as much chance of these things happening as there was when America has protests, whether it was in the 70s against the Vietnam war or 2017 against the Trump Administration.You have a point, but I believe the 70s protests against the Vietnam war did influence the desire to leave.
So shouldn´t the NATO countries declare war on Ukraine?
I agree Ken - ultimately Russia is to blame. Fortunately, there's a big difference between ultimate cause and proximate cause but one wonders how long it will be before Russia goes completely batshit.
NATO deems Russia as ‘terrorist state,’ calls for support for Ukraine
The NATO Parliamentary Assembly (NATO PA) Monday supported the propositions of the Ukrainian delegation and adopted a unanimous resolution recognizing Russia as a “terrorist state” during its 68th Annual Session. The PA passed a series of resolutions calling on the 30 NATO allies to intensify backing for Ukraine’s resistance and support the country’s integration into Euro-Atlantic institutions. The PA urged members to “state clearly that the Russian state under the current regime is a terrorist one.”
President of the PA Joëlle Garriaud-Maylam condemned Russia´s war on Ukraine and noted that “Western allies had failed to listen to the warnings of their Eastern partners before President Vladimir Putin ordered Russian troops into Ukraine.” Maylam stated:
Now, no doubt is possible, Russian leaders, are acting like real terrorists, showing unprecedent barbarism by attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure. We must act, and they must be judged as terrorists in front of international tribunals. As NATO parliamentarians, we must support Ukraine, we must support its people. People who are everyday showing courage and resilience in the service of our values of Freedom, democracy and sovereignity.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy addressed the PA through video conferencing and called the NATO Allies to stand firm against Russian aggression and step up support to Ukraine. Zelenskyy stated:
Ukrainians are sure we can defend ourselves in this war, we can reinstate our borders, European borders, along the full length of our southern and eastern flanks. The power of our democracy will be a guarantee that no tyranny to the east of us will be able to threaten Europe.
Other international bodies have also condemned Russia’s war in Ukraine.On October 13, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. (PACE) unanimously adopted a resolution calling the Russian Federation a terrorist regime. PACE became the first international organisation to recognise Russia as a terrorist state. PACE passed another resolution on November 16 to recognise Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism. On November 14, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution stating that Russia must be held accountable for international law violations during its war in Ukraine and must pay war reparations.
https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/11/nat … r-ukraine/I praise the UN General Assembly for the move to condemned Russia.
I agree with you. It is time for the world to acknowledge the many atrocities committed by russia now and in the past.
RMN, you're welcome. Every member state of the UN should follow suit. But Russians should also condemn they leaders, no matter what.
If anyone is interested in learning about the battles taking place in the Ukraine, this guy from the Ukraine does a good job.
Here is a link to his YouTube channel where he speaks English.
https://www.youtube.com/@RFUI agree, one of the best daily updates on Ukraine you can get.
For more tactical and strategic background i recommend:
https://www.youtube.com/@PerunAU/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/CovertCabal/videos
Especially this guy PERUN seems to have economic and logistic insight. The best video i watched from him was about systemic lying in Russian military. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz59GWeTIik
Because Ukraine is kind of the same brew as Russia from the Soviet times, Ukraine suffers also from corruption. After inital euphoria of liberating Cherson the population apparently soon found out that returning prerussian administration is not doing much better than the Russians did in recent months. No water, no fuel, no electricity, no generators, no ... Typical sign of someone reporting: "we have everything to help" but then charging money from the lucky few who get access to generator electricity.
Ukrainian military seems to be less prone to corruption. Apparently too much oversight from western countries who donate weapons, training and equipment.
Not to forget: Ukraine is strongly dependend on these shipments. But western countries all have a human rights sticker on.. SO Ukraine army better not commit war crimes or atrocities.Chriss57, per your last two paragraph, I pray the Ukrainian Army read the human rights stickers well to heart.
When people in the United States talk about corruption in Ukraine, I have to laugh. The United States government is one of the most corrupt in the world.
I think you mean the recent liberation of Kherson. The struggles there have nothing to do with corruption. It is a city that was devastated after months of Soviet occupation. Everything from a dam that blown to a main radio tower that was destroyed and more have left the city in a bad way.
The Russian shelling of civilian targets all over Ukraine has led to a lack of basic utilities.
I don't know if you watch much Ukrainian media, but things are being done and life is improving.
Russian destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure around the country is the real culprit in all of this and the Ukrainian people understand this.I certainly hope that ...things are being done and life is improving...
But my experience with doing business in Russia and in Ukraine has taught me to be very cautious, especially when it comes to administrations and line of authority.
I assume that the top government of Ukraine, the Zelenski administration is too much in the eye of the world to allow for corruption. But are local authorities also observed and checked?
The USA has many flaws, but it does have its checks and balances. To compare in corruption terms with Ukraine is very misleading.
There are signs that corruption is fading in Ukraine. People seem to be fighting and enduring not only Russian agression but at the same time fighting to overcome old administrations and establish new and more effective ones.Corruption? Yes, I've never heard of it against the Ukraine government and people. But against the USA and Russia? Absolutely. Vladimir Putin seems to be the most corrupted person and leader in the USSR these days. Always gathering to enrich himself, and his cronies, the wealth of the country! Does Old Joe Biden, came to power with clean hands? Nope! Does all the votes garner for him count real? Nope! America, now falls into the category of the most corrupt democratic countries of advanced economies.
"There are signs that corruption is fading in Ukraine. People seem to be fighting and enduring not only Russian agression but at the same time fighting to overcome old administrations and establish new and more effective ones."
You are absolutely right. Things have changed drastically there since 2014. All the Ukrainians I speak with agree, it will be a new country after this war with russia is over. There was a lot of patriotism before this, and now it is stronger than even in 1991 when Ukraine got its independence.
I think the world it witnessing the strength and resolve of Ukrainian people to be free.I wish Ukrainians fighting for their freedom...absolute freedom!
Interesting updates, thank you for posting this link.
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