"First hint of 'life after death' in biggest ever scientific study"

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   God shetposted 9 years ago

   "In all our academies we attempt far too much. ... In earlier times lectures were delivered upon chemistry and botany as branches of medicine, and the medical student learned enough of them. Now, however, chemistry and botany are become sciences of themselves, incapable of comprehension by a hasty survey, and each demanding the study of a whole life, yet we expect the medical student to understand them. He who is prudent, accordingly declines all distracting claims upon his time, and limits himself to a single branch and becomes expert in one thing. In all times it is only individuals that have advanced science, not the age."
   
   ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
   
   
   
   
   
   "Death is a depressingly inevitable consequence of life, but now scientists believe they may have found some light at the end of the tunnel. The largest ever medical study into near-death and out-of-body experiences has discovered that some awareness may continue even after the brain has shut down completely. It is a controversial subject which has, until recently, been treated with widespread skepticism.
   
   But scientists at the University of Southampton have spent four years examining more than 2,000 people who suffered cardiac arrests at 15 hospitals in the UK, US and Austria. And they found that nearly 40 per cent of people who survived described some kind of ‘awareness’ during the time when they were clinically dead before their hearts were restarted.
   
   
   
   
   One man even recalled leaving his body entirely and watching his resuscitation from the corner of the room. Despite being unconscious and ‘dead’ for three minutes, the 57-year-old social worker from Southampton, recounted the actions of the nursing staff in detail and described the sound of the machines. “We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating,” said Dr Sam Parnia, a former research fellow at Southampton University, now at the State University of New York, who led the study."
   
   “But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes into the period when the heart wasn’t beating, even though the brain typically shuts down within 20-30 seconds after the heart has stopped."
   
   “The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for."
   
   
   “He seemed very credible and everything that he said had happened to him had actually happened.”
   
   
   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie … study.html

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      One good thing about facts: You can't refute them.   Of course, others will refute the story itself.
      (I don't.)

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         Righteous Atheistposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Ooooh facts! I like facts - what are are the facts?

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            wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            That the brain can and does operate for a short period without a heartbeat.  Either that or doctors all over the world are bringing dead people back to the living, something only a god can do.

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               Righteous Atheistposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               I was hoping Katherine could enlighten me.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  “The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for."
                  The man had been unconscious and without a heartbeat.  UNCONSCIOUS physically, but not spiritually.
                  
                  What is your explanation? Do unconscious people perceive stuff with any of their five senses?

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                     Righteous Atheistposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     That is the facts huh? OK. Well - I can't argue with that proven fact. Out of 2,000 people, one said they saw what went on in the room for 3 minutes. What do you make out of that fact?

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                     wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     They sure do.  Talk to any medical professional about talking to a person in a coma.  Or to surgeons about people put under that still feel pain.  Or to nearly everyone about hearing things while asleep (once woke in a cold sweat, aware that the smoke alarm had been "beeping" periodically for several minutes).

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                        Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        -well, there you go! 
                        
                        
                        (I still prefer to believe there is life after death and endless opportunity to rejoin the ocean of spirit. PMC)

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                           wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Well, yes.  Believing such a thing gives much comfort; it guarantees eternal life (although I view that as the worst thing that could happen).  As long as we don't require a link to reality, and accept our preference in lieu or actual evidence, beliefs can often do that.

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                              Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              As John Lennon sang, "Whatever gets you through your life… its all right." ( I sort of believe this.. not totally…)
                              
                              You would want to have eternal life, if it was a happy one.
                              
                              Otherwise, lights out is alright with you?  Thats interesting.
                              Would it be a relief?

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                                 God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 There needs to be an access to HubPages. . .

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      Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      No link to the actual study, just an article that says people for a few minutes after the heart stops experience things.
      
      Okay.
      
      One telling study put lit up phrases when the patience lying on the table couldn't see them, many patients say they left their bodies but not one relaid the phrase.
      
      More false hope.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Not all have the ability to retain consciousness after the heart and brain shut down… or maybe the brain does keep working … but he was seemingly/apparently unconscious.  Are people who are un conscious actually conscious?
           They did not claim to be sure:
         “We just don’t know what is going on. We are still very much in the dark about what happens when you die and hopefully this study will help shine a scientific lens onto that.”

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         Righteous Atheistposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         There doesn't seem to have been an actual study. 2,000 people?
         
         "Of 2060 cardiac arrest patients studied, 330 survived and of 140 surveyed, 39 per cent said they had experienced some kind of awareness while being resuscitated.
         Although many could not recall specific details, some themes emerged. One in five said they had felt an unusual sense of peacefulness while nearly one third said time had slowed down or speeded up."
         
         Dear me. Wonder what the 1,730 dead ones "experienced" lol

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            Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            So 8.5% of the survivors thought they experienced something and one guys said he saw them giving him CPR and paddling him. And that just what they are telling us because I see no link to any study. Do we trust the 91.5% or the 8.5%?
            
            Anyhow, I had a dream last night that Allah placed his hand on my shoulder so I'm going with him.
            
            Allah, says the dead ones are sitting and listening to stories with Jesus. They get a break in 4 billion years.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   The possibility exists that there is life after death.
   If you do not want to believe in such a possibility, that is fine.
   
   Right?
   
   No one is forcing anything here.

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      janesixposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      What did you expect, really?

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      Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      How exactly is there a possibility? Show me how the brains function that causes consciousness can suddenly transform to something else that needs no body or electricity? Consciousness is completely dependent on the brain, when the brian is injured or put unconscious with medication consciousness no longer exists. There are even times during deep sleep when we are completely unconscious.
      
      So show me how it's possible.

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         God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         There YOU have a fantastic belief system.

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            Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, It's fantastic to understand reality.

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               God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               The way that YOU understand.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   Here is a true story:
   Last week, I was subbing for PE and after one of the classes, a group of girls, about 10 years old, came up to me and asked me what I thought about the end of the world. "How do you feel about the world ending?"  They held up a fist as though it was a microphone and they were interviewing me. It very cute.
   
   For some reason I blurted out, "The sooner the better…!" They said..  "You want us to die??" I had said it to be funny. And I just laughed. They did not find it humorous in the least! They ran away and never looked at me again. I felt terrible. Just terrible.
   What should I have said?
   "The world is not ending so lets not worry about it!"
   ( What are the kids today thinking about the world?
   If the world is ending where are they going? They may have some serious concerns!)

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      God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      A very interesting perspective. Children can make us understand the nature of a 'consciousness' being immediately detached from 'God'.

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         Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Where did that come from? The kids only asked if the end of the world was coming.

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            God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            It didn't come from the kids.

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               Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               "I was subbing for PE and after one of the classes, a group of girls, about 10 years old, came up to me and asked me what I thought about the end of the world."
               
               Seriously, are you okay.

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                  God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  "Where did that come from?"

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                     Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Maybe, Kathryn will help us out by telling us if she edited her post.

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                     Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Kathryn has not yet responded. Perhaps she is subbing and scaring again. Poor kids "Miss, when do you think the world will end, we're afraid". Kathryn "SOOOON, my little sweets". If parents complain she can almost say it was in the spirit of halloween.

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                        God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        It was pleasing to experience your range for these sorts of imaginations.

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                  Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  I guess that fellow is an alter ego of Ozinato, too many spam/spurious threads in a matter of days.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  You are right. I should have said, "a group of ten year old girls." Thanks for pointing put my grammatical flub, Rad Man.

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                     Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     No, sorry. You missed the point. I wasn't pointing grammatical error out because I didn't see any and I don't care. The Point was GS said he thought someone else asked the question so I told him girls did. Then he asked where did that come from.
                     
                     Did you edit that post?

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                        janesixposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, she did edit that post. Not surprising, she does it all the time.

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                           Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           (- my editing it is why Janesix cannot stand my guts. )

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                        Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        No, and I understood his comment just fine.
                        
                          "Children can make us understand the nature of a 'consciousness' being immediately detached from 'God'."
                        "It was not from the kids."
                        
                        -no, it was the influence of the news and the media/movies and their parents and the internet and… bla bla bla all around them…  the kids should not have such doubts about life. It is really sad. I wish I could have said:
                        "...looking at your happy faces, I think the future will be just fine," or something like that! 
                        But, they held up a microphone!

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                           Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           This end of the world stuff is from you religious folks. Would you like me to quote from the bible the descriptions of the horrors of the end of the world? How about the countless people in these forms who bring it up all the time. Show me where the media has talked about the end of the world? Climate change is not the end of the world.

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                              God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              "Show me where the media has talked about the end of the world? Climate change is not the end of the world."
                              
                              ~ This is the problem that they do not say that the world would end. And anything which is 'definite'.

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                                 Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 I asked you for your thoughts, not her story again.

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                                    God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    Thoughts can not be seen.

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                                       Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       They can if you communicate them by typing what you think when you reply. This is how we read each others thought and communicate.

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                                          God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                          I asked you for your thoughts, not her story again.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               "It didn't come from the kids."
               - exactly.
               
               Remember when no one had to tell us (kids) not to worry and to just be happy? The end of the world was not in our minds in the least. Except for air raid drills and hiding under our desks at school… but who knew what the heck that was about?

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      Righteous Atheistposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I am thinking you should never be placed in a position of authority over ten year old children.

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         God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         It's rather advisable to hand them over to educated atheists.

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            Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Just people who understand that we are living in a secular society, and you don't bring up your religious beliefs and scare a bunch of children.

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               God shetposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               "religious beliefs" are tip of that iceberg.

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            Righteous Atheistposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I would not have scared them and made them run away. You like to scare children also I assume? Looking forward to meeting you at TED.

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      Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You should have been honest. You see no evidence that the world will anytime soon. Don't worry, be happy.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I was surprised they did not see the humor of it.
         good grief.

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